Good stuff as usual Jerry. I hate to sound like this, because I love Creighton and want him to be the guy to take us to a MAC Championship. I also wanted that for Murphy, who I met when I was still a student and he was incredibly kind. At the end of the day, all I see are wins and losses, and I hope the university sets a standard for winning. We’ve shown in both sports that we can compete.

I think it boils down to CC can motivate people (and donors) and projects a genuine sense of loving EMU and Ypsilanti. Wanting to bring guys in to be a part of his program. Supporting other programs when they have successes (WBB most recently, VB last year when they won MAC, T&F when they won the indoor, etc.).
I haven't seen Murphy post anything that wasn't about himself or EMUMBB ever. Go get your copy of DEEP though.

At a Coaches Luncheon last season, Murphy answered the question of "Why don't we have more impact players from the state of Michigan" by saying that recruiting to EMU is like recruiting to Afghanistan. The president, Wetherbe and a few board members were all there. I couldn't believe my ears.
I pulled my donation later that day.

I'm not saying that CC is the GOAT and deserves a statue. But he instills PRIDE in being an Eagle/Huron/Nomalite. Rob Murphy absolutely does not.

The majority of us absolutely adore Creighton, largely due to his A-Z management and marketing of the program as well as its modest win-loss success. He, in my opinion has been wonderful, taking over a program ravaged by an HBO report and is continuously the favorite punching bag of those resisting needed cost cuts elsewhere in the University.

Nevertheless, every and I mean EVERY concern Sam raised about his win-loss performance are valid. Is it 0-6 or 0-7 in overtime games? And all those non-overtime close losses? Murphy plays an antiquated strategy of basketball as evidenced by his once successful Mentor's record in the previous 6 seasons. Is Creighton's any better?

Still, I admit I am biased, Creighton is my coach based on my evaluation of his total performance.

(03-12-2020 06:04 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  The majority of us absolutely adore Creighton, largely due to his A-Z management and marketing of the program as well as its modest win-loss success. He, in my opinion has been wonderful, taking over a program ravaged by an HBO report and is continuously the favorite punching bag of those resisting needed cost cuts elsewhere in the University.

Nevertheless, every and I mean EVERY concern Sam raised about his win-loss performance are valid. Is it 0-6 or 0-7 in overtime games? And all those non-overtime close losses? Murphy plays an antiquated strategy of basketball as evidenced by his once successful Mentor's record in the previous 6 seasons. Is Creighton's any better?

Still, I admit I am biased, Creighton is my coach based on my evaluation of his total performance.

Creighton has done an incredible job bringing this program back from the dead, and he's a great man with his personal values, and his love for his players both on, and off the field! He graduates a large percentage of them! But, taking away the 1st 2 seasons, over the past 4 seasons he's 25-26, and the MAC record is very similar as well! His in game decisions are much to conservative, and he tries to keep games close, instead of simply going for the kill! Creighton's a great ambassador for E Michigan University, and Murphy's not nearly as much, but both are .500 level caliber coaches! Neither one's Lance Leipold, or John Groce........This is Creightons 7th season, it's time to compete for A MAC championship! Bowl games are wonderful, but winning one's also important!

(03-12-2020 07:23 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  

(03-12-2020 06:04 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  The majority of us absolutely adore Creighton, largely due to his A-Z management and marketing of the program as well as its modest win-loss success. He, in my opinion has been wonderful, taking over a program ravaged by an HBO report and is continuously the favorite punching bag of those resisting needed cost cuts elsewhere in the University.

Nevertheless, every and I mean EVERY concern Sam raised about his win-loss performance are valid. Is it 0-6 or 0-7 in overtime games? And all those non-overtime close losses? Murphy plays an antiquated strategy of basketball as evidenced by his once successful Mentor's record in the previous 6 seasons. Is Creighton's any better?

Still, I admit I am biased, Creighton is my coach based on my evaluation of his total performance.

Creighton has done an incredible job bringing this program back from the dead, and he's a great man with his personal values, and his love for his players both on, and off the field! He graduates a large percentage of them! But, taking away the 1st 2 seasons, over the past 4 seasons he's 25-26, and the MAC record is very similar as well! His in game decisions are much to conservative, and he tries to keep games close, instead of simply going for the kill! Creighton's a great ambassador for E Michigan University, and Murphy's not nearly as much, but both are .500 level caliber coaches! Neither one's Lance Leipold, or John Groce........This is Creightons 7th season, it's time to compete for A MAC championship! Bowl games are wonderful, but winning one's also important!

Amen. Both you and Jerry hit the nail on the head.

I truly hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think we will have a good enough offense (and I think they’ll be good) to overcome what could be a very poor defense. I know it’s never easy to replace a stout DLine, and we may never have a player as good as Maxx Crosby again, but we didn’t even do a merely adequate job up front in 2019. We were consistently blown off the line on running plays, and the pass rush was virtually non-existent in MAC play. I don’t think Creighton and staff did a good job recruiting for that need in this past window, either. For this year and the future.

Now, you graduate some of the best playmakers in the secondary that we’ve had in years, and it’s a recipe for disaster. I hope that some of the young guys step up and become the new Jerry Harris or Vince Calhoun or Brody Hoying, but we aren’t sure if that will happen, which makes losing our star QB on the other side even tougher, since the new QB will have to be very good-to-great for us to succeed.

If we win 6 games, I’ll be thrilled. But 5-7 or 4-8 is VERY realistic, and that’s my entire point: a 4-8 rebuilding year in year 7 shouldn’t be acceptable when our ceiling has been 7-5. Just like a 6-12 season is not good enough for a Murphy team in year 9 when his ceiling has been 11-7.

(03-13-2020 05:57 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(03-12-2020 07:23 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  

(03-12-2020 06:04 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  The majority of us absolutely adore Creighton, largely due to his A-Z management and marketing of the program as well as its modest win-loss success. He, in my opinion has been wonderful, taking over a program ravaged by an HBO report and is continuously the favorite punching bag of those resisting needed cost cuts elsewhere in the University.

Nevertheless, every and I mean EVERY concern Sam raised about his win-loss performance are valid. Is it 0-6 or 0-7 in overtime games? And all those non-overtime close losses? Murphy plays an antiquated strategy of basketball as evidenced by his once successful Mentor's record in the previous 6 seasons. Is Creighton's any better?

Still, I admit I am biased, Creighton is my coach based on my evaluation of his total performance.

Creighton has done an incredible job bringing this program back from the dead, and he's a great man with his personal values, and his love for his players both on, and off the field! He graduates a large percentage of them! But, taking away the 1st 2 seasons, over the past 4 seasons he's 25-26, and the MAC record is very similar as well! His in game decisions are much to conservative, and he tries to keep games close, instead of simply going for the kill! Creighton's a great ambassador for E Michigan University, and Murphy's not nearly as much, but both are .500 level caliber coaches! Neither one's Lance Leipold, or John Groce........This is Creightons 7th season, it's time to compete for A MAC championship! Bowl games are wonderful, but winning one's also important!

Amen. Both you and Jerry hit the nail on the head.

I truly hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think we will have a good enough offense (and I think they’ll be good) to overcome what could be a very poor defense. I know it’s never easy to replace a stout DLine, and we may never have a player as good as Maxx Crosby again, but we didn’t even do a merely adequate job up front in 2019. We were consistently blown off the line on running plays, and the pass rush was virtually non-existent in MAC play. I don’t think Creighton and staff did a good job recruiting for that need in this past window, either. For this year and the future.

Now, you graduate some of the best playmakers in the secondary that we’ve had in years, and it’s a recipe for disaster. I hope that some of the young guys step up and become the new Jerry Harris or Vince Calhoun or Brody Hoying, but we aren’t sure if that will happen, which makes losing our star QB on the other side even tougher, since the new QB will have to be very good-to-great for us to succeed.

If we win 6 games, I’ll be thrilled. But 5-7 or 4-8 is VERY realistic, and that’s my entire point: a 4-8 rebuilding year in year 7 shouldn’t be acceptable when our ceiling has been 7-5. Just like a 6-12 season is not good enough for a Murphy team in year 9 when his ceiling has been 11-7.

Rebuilds happen every X number of years, usually after the graduation of a star QB or a stellar unit (e.g., DL).

To me it doesn't matter if the HC has been there 4, 8, or even 12 years. There will be peaks and valleys.

BTW, I'm not at all down on the 2020 team.

I see a lot of suprising units e.g., WR, OL, maybe even QB. DL will be a lot better than last year.

The team has more solid starters and much better depth than in years past. Lot of competitiion especially both the OL and DL.

(03-13-2020 07:03 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-13-2020 05:57 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(03-12-2020 07:23 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  

(03-12-2020 06:04 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  The majority of us absolutely adore Creighton, largely due to his A-Z management and marketing of the program as well as its modest win-loss success. He, in my opinion has been wonderful, taking over a program ravaged by an HBO report and is continuously the favorite punching bag of those resisting needed cost cuts elsewhere in the University.

Nevertheless, every and I mean EVERY concern Sam raised about his win-loss performance are valid. Is it 0-6 or 0-7 in overtime games? And all those non-overtime close losses? Murphy plays an antiquated strategy of basketball as evidenced by his once successful Mentor's record in the previous 6 seasons. Is Creighton's any better?

Still, I admit I am biased, Creighton is my coach based on my evaluation of his total performance.

Creighton has done an incredible job bringing this program back from the dead, and he's a great man with his personal values, and his love for his players both on, and off the field! He graduates a large percentage of them! But, taking away the 1st 2 seasons, over the past 4 seasons he's 25-26, and the MAC record is very similar as well! His in game decisions are much to conservative, and he tries to keep games close, instead of simply going for the kill! Creighton's a great ambassador for E Michigan University, and Murphy's not nearly as much, but both are .500 level caliber coaches! Neither one's Lance Leipold, or John Groce........This is Creightons 7th season, it's time to compete for A MAC championship! Bowl games are wonderful, but winning one's also important!

Amen. Both you and Jerry hit the nail on the head.

I truly hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think we will have a good enough offense (and I think they’ll be good) to overcome what could be a very poor defense. I know it’s never easy to replace a stout DLine, and we may never have a player as good as Maxx Crosby again, but we didn’t even do a merely adequate job up front in 2019. We were consistently blown off the line on running plays, and the pass rush was virtually non-existent in MAC play. I don’t think Creighton and staff did a good job recruiting for that need in this past window, either. For this year and the future.

Now, you graduate some of the best playmakers in the secondary that we’ve had in years, and it’s a recipe for disaster. I hope that some of the young guys step up and become the new Jerry Harris or Vince Calhoun or Brody Hoying, but we aren’t sure if that will happen, which makes losing our star QB on the other side even tougher, since the new QB will have to be very good-to-great for us to succeed.

If we win 6 games, I’ll be thrilled. But 5-7 or 4-8 is VERY realistic, and that’s my entire point: a 4-8 rebuilding year in year 7 shouldn’t be acceptable when our ceiling has been 7-5. Just like a 6-12 season is not good enough for a Murphy team in year 9 when his ceiling has been 11-7.

Rebuilds happen every X number of years, usually after the graduation of a star QB or a stellar unit (e.g., DL).

To me it doesn't matter if the HC has been there 4, 8, or even 12 years. There will be peaks and valleys.

BTW, I'm not at all down on the 2020 team.

I see a lot of suprising units e.g., WR, OL, maybe even QB. DL will be a lot better than last year.

The team has more solid starters and much better depth than in years past. Lot of competitiion especially both the OL and DL.

I can’t imagine there are many programs that would allow a rebuilding season in year 7 when the prior 6 seasons didn’t lead to a championship or even playing for one. We are an exception because of how dreadful the program was before Creighton got here. I don’t think he should be fired if we go 4-8. He’s earned some rope for a bad year. But if the following season doesn’t get better, then I think a change would be necessary. I just doubt that it would happen.

Again, I hope I’m so wrong and this team wins 8 games. I’ll gladly bump this thread and call myself an idiot. It just doesn’t seem likely, and that schedule doesn’t help.

Bill Cubit is a good example, I think. He was a decent coach, and WMU was never embarrassing under him. But he never won the MAC West, let alone the MAC, and they fired him after a 4-8 season in year 8. That’s the standard I hope we hold Creighton to. If we remain a 6-6 or 7-5 type team, it’s hard to call for a change. But if it trends downward, then a new voice may be needed. The school is investing a lot of money into the program, and I’m sure they want to see us competing for championships. I hope Creighton is that guy, but if he isn’t, go try to find the next PJ Fleck.

(03-13-2020 09:09 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(03-13-2020 07:03 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-13-2020 05:57 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(03-12-2020 07:23 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  

(03-12-2020 06:04 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  The majority of us absolutely adore Creighton, largely due to his A-Z management and marketing of the program as well as its modest win-loss success. He, in my opinion has been wonderful, taking over a program ravaged by an HBO report and is continuously the favorite punching bag of those resisting needed cost cuts elsewhere in the University.

Nevertheless, every and I mean EVERY concern Sam raised about his win-loss performance are valid. Is it 0-6 or 0-7 in overtime games? And all those non-overtime close losses? Murphy plays an antiquated strategy of basketball as evidenced by his once successful Mentor's record in the previous 6 seasons. Is Creighton's any better?

Still, I admit I am biased, Creighton is my coach based on my evaluation of his total performance.

Creighton has done an incredible job bringing this program back from the dead, and he's a great man with his personal values, and his love for his players both on, and off the field! He graduates a large percentage of them! But, taking away the 1st 2 seasons, over the past 4 seasons he's 25-26, and the MAC record is very similar as well! His in game decisions are much to conservative, and he tries to keep games close, instead of simply going for the kill! Creighton's a great ambassador for E Michigan University, and Murphy's not nearly as much, but both are .500 level caliber coaches! Neither one's Lance Leipold, or John Groce........This is Creightons 7th season, it's time to compete for A MAC championship! Bowl games are wonderful, but winning one's also important!

Amen. Both you and Jerry hit the nail on the head.

I truly hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think we will have a good enough offense (and I think they’ll be good) to overcome what could be a very poor defense. I know it’s never easy to replace a stout DLine, and we may never have a player as good as Maxx Crosby again, but we didn’t even do a merely adequate job up front in 2019. We were consistently blown off the line on running plays, and the pass rush was virtually non-existent in MAC play. I don’t think Creighton and staff did a good job recruiting for that need in this past window, either. For this year and the future.

Now, you graduate some of the best playmakers in the secondary that we’ve had in years, and it’s a recipe for disaster. I hope that some of the young guys step up and become the new Jerry Harris or Vince Calhoun or Brody Hoying, but we aren’t sure if that will happen, which makes losing our star QB on the other side even tougher, since the new QB will have to be very good-to-great for us to succeed.

If we win 6 games, I’ll be thrilled. But 5-7 or 4-8 is VERY realistic, and that’s my entire point: a 4-8 rebuilding year in year 7 shouldn’t be acceptable when our ceiling has been 7-5. Just like a 6-12 season is not good enough for a Murphy team in year 9 when his ceiling has been 11-7.

Rebuilds happen every X number of years, usually after the graduation of a star QB or a stellar unit (e.g., DL).

To me it doesn't matter if the HC has been there 4, 8, or even 12 years. There will be peaks and valleys.

BTW, I'm not at all down on the 2020 team.

I see a lot of suprising units e.g., WR, OL, maybe even QB. DL will be a lot better than last year.

The team has more solid starters and much better depth than in years past. Lot of competitiion especially both the OL and DL.

I can’t imagine there are many programs that would allow a rebuilding season in year 7 when the prior 6 seasons didn’t lead to a championship or even playing for one. We are an exception because of how dreadful the program was before Creighton got here. I don’t think he should be fired if we go 4-8. He’s earned some rope for a bad year. But if the following season doesn’t get better, then I think a change would be necessary. I just doubt that it would happen.

Again, I hope I’m so wrong and this team wins 8 games. I’ll gladly bump this thread and call myself an idiot. It just doesn’t seem likely, and that schedule doesn’t help.

Why are we calling this a rebuilding season???

I say typical replenishing which happens with all college teams.