Notre Dame isn't in a P5 conference for football but are for other sports and are considered a P5 for all intensive purposes.

Notre Dame's current NBC contract expires after the 2025 season (https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...eal-2025). This is around the same time as the Pac 12 and Big 12 deals.

I have argued in other threads that Notre Dame doesn't deserve their own contract on OTA TV and they have have lower ratings than when NBC renewed the contract. In 2012, " the Irish averaged 4.4 million viewers and a 2.8 household rating for its seven games on NBC in 2012". 2019 is a bad sample since they didn't have any marquee home games. But in 2018, Here's the 2018 ratings: Mich: 7.091M, Ball St: 2.453M, Vandy: 2.108M, Stan: 3.443M, Pitt: 2.821M, FSU: 3.173M, Syr: 2.873M. This is an average of 3.42M per game and that includes a Michigan game and Notre Dame went undefeated. They lost 23% of their ratings from 2012. If a ratings property lost 23% of its audience from when you renewed it, why would you want to renew it again? Do you expect Notre Dame to rebound and go back up to 4.4 million by the time the decision to renew comes? Remember that was a high year. Also, they chose a high year to renew. Bad choice. It reminds me when Notre Dame decided to extend Charlie Weis for a ten year deal not even all the way through his first season! This was after they fired Ty Willingham after just three seasons. Ty wins his first eight games in his first year but they don't extend him. Can you say racist?

Deserve has nothing to do with it. Any school would take such a deal. The networks don't have to offer it but they see the value.

Notre Dame has good negotiators!

Maybe this deal with the ACC is not good for neither the ACC and Notre Dame?

"Racist" is a word thrown around in this day and age way too often.

People, businesses, schools etc... have to do what is right for them, even if others disagree.

I don't really have any good responses!

Contracting with ND for football tv rights is a high risk/high reward game. It’s hard to tell what you’re going to get. Since they are high risk since you’re literally buying 7-8 games with no option to air an alternative game from the conference’s 5-7 to choose from and the money isn’t spilt 10-14 ways the cost is considerably lower.

I think NBC will stick with them and with CBS no longer in the P5 football game I think we see them jump is a a bidder too.

ND is significantly underpaid under the current contract, even given the concessions NBC grants them.

Ty Willingham almost destroyed two programs all by himself.

He was a non-existent recruiter. His classes were among the worst ever at ND.

He was a horrible game day coach. I sat in the rain at ND Stadium in 2004 when he punted from the BC 30 yard line...into the end zone.

He deserved to be fired by ND. He deserved to be fired by Washington. Was Washington also racist, or do you just dislike ND?

NBC will renew the ND contract for more money. ND will stay independent. You still won't like them.

What Willingham did at Washington is irrelevant to whether or not he deserved to be fired after three seasons at Notre Dame.

Was Willingham any worse a head coach at Notre Dame (not Washington) than Gerry Faust or Bob Davie ... or Charlie Weis who in his third season went 3-9 and the only reason he wasn't fired is because of the ridiculous 10 year extension he was given after his first season? Ty Willingham after three seasons: 21-15. Bob Davie after three seasons: 21-16. Gerry Faust: 18-15-1. In Davie's third season, Notre Dame had a losing record.

Then AFTER Notre Dame fires Willingham, they can't wait to give Weis a ten year extension not even totally through his first season. They were 5-2. As stated before, Willingham started 8-0 in his first season. He never got a contract extension. Davie had his contract extended after his fourth season after going 9-3 the season after going 5-7. Willingham after his first season not only started 8-0 but finished 10-3. No contract extension.

He had similar results to other coaches but other coaches get contract extensions and he doesn't and he gets fired and other coaches don't. Are you willing to say Willingham was the worst Notre Dame head football coach ever? The records don't show that.

A lot more goes into picking, keeping, and firing a coach (or anyone) than performance. There may be off-the-field issues we don't know about like maybe he and the AD didn't get along or perhaps there was a feud with the school president. We simply don't have all the facts. They hired him didn't they? Notre Dame is not a school that looks to check the box. They truly believe, rightful or not, that they are a national championship contender every year and they hire in line with that thinking.

This is a really bad take. Arguing that Notre Dame doesn't *deserve* a contract extension with NBC? That's not how it works.

Then, pivot the post to throw out racist accusations because they fired an under-performing coach??

Willingham had a great start at Notre Dame but then fizzled. 11-12 record in the last 2 years, horrible recruiting, and a 30-point loss to rival USC. ND tried to replace him with Urban Meyer. ND had to throw out a huge contract to Weiss to tempt him away from the Patriots...where he had won 3 Super Bowls....

I also note that ND and Weiss defeated Washington and Willingham the very next season. They played in the Fiesta and Sugar Bowls in the first two seasons under Weiss. Weiss also fizzled, but Notre Dame wouldn't have played in the Fiesta or Sugar Bowls with Willingham still at the helm.

I do remember the “Willingham was treated different than other coaches; possible racism” take circulating message boards in 2006. It fizzled out over time but was a thing back then.

I think the more relevant part of my comparison was the Weis extension. Considering Notre Dame went 3-9 two years after that, 10 years was clearly a mistake. Would Weis have been fired after two BCS berths the first two years? Who knows? But it does look bad. Similarly, when NBC went long on their last extension they did so after they went 12-0 and played in the BCS championship game so ratings most likely were higher. NBC's previous extension was five years. I couldn't tell you what the trends were in the previous years before 2012 but if you are you going to make a big commitment based on just one year of good ratings, you can't cry when ratings go down.

Eventually there has to be a point where the ratings are so low that NBC has to say enough is enough. Or NBC has the right to air games on NBCSN, why don't they? It's obvious if Notre Dame plays a MAC opponent no one other than the two schools involved are going to watch, why waste NBC's time? It's not hard. 2020 vs. Western Michigan and 2021 vs. Toledo on NBCSN. Make the NBC affiliates happier since they can air higher rated programming.

Willingham made Weiss look marginally competent.

Willingham and Weiss together made Davies look like a stinking GENIUS!

I prefer the Unforgiven option, "Deserves got nothin' to do with it!"

(03-06-2020 11:52 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I think the more relevant part of my comparison was the Weis extension. Considering Notre Dame went 3-9 two years after that, 10 years was clearly a mistake. Would Weis have been fired after two BCS berths the first two years? Who knows? But it does look bad. Similarly, when NBC went long on their last extension they did so after they went 12-0 and played in the BCS championship game so ratings most likely were higher. NBC's previous extension was five years. I couldn't tell you what the trends were in the previous years before 2012 but if you are you going to make a big commitment based on just one year of good ratings, you can't cry when ratings go down.

Eventually there has to be a point where the ratings are so low that NBC has to say enough is enough. Or NBC has the right to air games on NBCSN, why don't they? It's obvious if Notre Dame plays a MAC opponent no one other than the two schools involved are going to watch, why waste NBC's time? It's not hard. 2020 vs. Western Michigan and 2021 vs. Toledo on NBCSN. Make the NBC affiliates happier since they can air higher rated programming.

The contract permits NBC to put one game per year on NBCSN (which also televises all ND home hockey games) and it does.

It has been that way for a few years now.

(03-06-2020 11:24 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I do remember the “Willingham was treated different than other coaches; possible racism” take circulating message boards in 2006. It fizzled out over time but was a thing back then.

Maybe they learned after 5 years with Gerry Faust. You don't wait 5 years.

(03-06-2020 03:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-06-2020 11:52 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I think the more relevant part of my comparison was the Weis extension. Considering Notre Dame went 3-9 two years after that, 10 years was clearly a mistake. Would Weis have been fired after two BCS berths the first two years? Who knows? But it does look bad. Similarly, when NBC went long on their last extension they did so after they went 12-0 and played in the BCS championship game so ratings most likely were higher. NBC's previous extension was five years. I couldn't tell you what the trends were in the previous years before 2012 but if you are you going to make a big commitment based on just one year of good ratings, you can't cry when ratings go down.

Eventually there has to be a point where the ratings are so low that NBC has to say enough is enough. Or NBC has the right to air games on NBCSN, why don't they? It's obvious if Notre Dame plays a MAC opponent no one other than the two schools involved are going to watch, why waste NBC's time? It's not hard. 2020 vs. Western Michigan and 2021 vs. Toledo on NBCSN. Make the NBC affiliates happier since they can air higher rated programming.

The contract permits NBC to put one game per year on NBCSN (which also televises all ND home hockey games) and it does.

It has been that way for a few years now.

Only two Notre Dame games have ever aired on NBCSN, 2015 vs. Boston College and 2017 vs. Miami Ohio. Last year, the lowest rated OTA game of the season was a Notre Dame home game: Bowling Green (0.8, 1.28M). New Mexico did slightly better (1.0, 1.50M viewers). The only other OTA I found that did worse was Minnesota-Northwestern on ABC (0.9, 1.36M) which aired vs. Penn State-Ohio State.

On Oct. 5, BG-ND had fewer viewers than all three ABC games, all three FOX games, the CBS game, and three of the four ESPN games including a late night Pac-12 game (Wash-Stan, 1.1, 1.88M). They also had fewer viewers than a game that aired on ESPN the previous night, UCF-CIN (0.9, 1.44M).

Next year all seven games are scheduled for NBC, none on NBCSN. Are they expecting a big audience for Western Michigan?

Notre Dame may no longer be the most valuable property, but they are definitely at least top 3 along with Alabama and Ohio St.
And Notre Dame is up there without the incredible runs those two have had, Alabama since 2008 and Ohio St. for pretty much the whole BCS/playoff era.

(03-06-2020 07:09 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(03-06-2020 03:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-06-2020 11:52 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I think the more relevant part of my comparison was the Weis extension. Considering Notre Dame went 3-9 two years after that, 10 years was clearly a mistake. Would Weis have been fired after two BCS berths the first two years? Who knows? But it does look bad. Similarly, when NBC went long on their last extension they did so after they went 12-0 and played in the BCS championship game so ratings most likely were higher. NBC's previous extension was five years. I couldn't tell you what the trends were in the previous years before 2012 but if you are you going to make a big commitment based on just one year of good ratings, you can't cry when ratings go down.

Eventually there has to be a point where the ratings are so low that NBC has to say enough is enough. Or NBC has the right to air games on NBCSN, why don't they? It's obvious if Notre Dame plays a MAC opponent no one other than the two schools involved are going to watch, why waste NBC's time? It's not hard. 2020 vs. Western Michigan and 2021 vs. Toledo on NBCSN. Make the NBC affiliates happier since they can air higher rated programming.

The contract permits NBC to put one game per year on NBCSN (which also televises all ND home hockey games) and it does.

It has been that way for a few years now.

Only two Notre Dame games have ever aired on NBCSN, 2015 vs. Boston College and 2017 vs. Miami Ohio. Last year, the lowest rated OTA game of the season was a Notre Dame home game: Bowling Green (0.8, 1.28M). New Mexico did slightly better (1.0, 1.50M viewers). The only other OTA I found that did worse was Minnesota-Northwestern on ABC (0.9, 1.36M) which aired vs. Penn State-Ohio State.

On Oct. 5, BG-ND had fewer viewers than all three ABC games, all three FOX games, the CBS game, and three of the four ESPN games including a late night Pac-12 game (Wash-Stan, 1.1, 1.88M). They also had fewer viewers than a game that aired on ESPN the previous night, UCF-CIN (0.9, 1.44M).

Next year all seven games are scheduled for NBC, none on NBCSN. Are they expecting a big audience for Western Michigan?

That is NBC's call. Give them a ring. Tell them what they should do.

(03-07-2020 01:41 PM)bullet Wrote:  Notre Dame may no longer be the most valuable property, but they are definitely at least top 3 along with Alabama and Ohio St.
And Notre Dame is up there without the incredible runs those two have had, Alabama since 2008 and Ohio St. for pretty much the whole BCS/playoff era.

Not quite the run of those two, but ND is on a a 23-3 run the past two seasons and a 33-6 run the past three years.

It also has 4 double digit win seasons in the past five years.

It had two undefeated seasons in 2012 and 2018, netting them a national championship game and a playoff appearances.

So, the reports of ND's death or terminal decline are greatly exaggerated.

(03-07-2020 03:30 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-06-2020 07:09 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(03-06-2020 03:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-06-2020 11:52 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I think the more relevant part of my comparison was the Weis extension. Considering Notre Dame went 3-9 two years after that, 10 years was clearly a mistake. Would Weis have been fired after two BCS berths the first two years? Who knows? But it does look bad. Similarly, when NBC went long on their last extension they did so after they went 12-0 and played in the BCS championship game so ratings most likely were higher. NBC's previous extension was five years. I couldn't tell you what the trends were in the previous years before 2012 but if you are you going to make a big commitment based on just one year of good ratings, you can't cry when ratings go down.

Eventually there has to be a point where the ratings are so low that NBC has to say enough is enough. Or NBC has the right to air games on NBCSN, why don't they? It's obvious if Notre Dame plays a MAC opponent no one other than the two schools involved are going to watch, why waste NBC's time? It's not hard. 2020 vs. Western Michigan and 2021 vs. Toledo on NBCSN. Make the NBC affiliates happier since they can air higher rated programming.

The contract permits NBC to put one game per year on NBCSN (which also televises all ND home hockey games) and it does.

It has been that way for a few years now.

Only two Notre Dame games have ever aired on NBCSN, 2015 vs. Boston College and 2017 vs. Miami Ohio. Last year, the lowest rated OTA game of the season was a Notre Dame home game: Bowling Green (0.8, 1.28M). New Mexico did slightly better (1.0, 1.50M viewers). The only other OTA I found that did worse was Minnesota-Northwestern on ABC (0.9, 1.36M) which aired vs. Penn State-Ohio State.

On Oct. 5, BG-ND had fewer viewers than all three ABC games, all three FOX games, the CBS game, and three of the four ESPN games including a late night Pac-12 game (Wash-Stan, 1.1, 1.88M). They also had fewer viewers than a game that aired on ESPN the previous night, UCF-CIN (0.9, 1.44M).

Next year all seven games are scheduled for NBC, none on NBCSN. Are they expecting a big audience for Western Michigan?

That is NBC's call. Give them a ring. Tell them what they should do.

I made my comments in this thread. This is a public board, they're welcome to read it. I also speak with my remote ... by not watching. Looking at their TV ratings, seems like a lot of people are joining me.

(03-07-2020 03:34 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 01:41 PM)bullet Wrote:  Notre Dame may no longer be the most valuable property, but they are definitely at least top 3 along with Alabama and Ohio St.
And Notre Dame is up there without the incredible runs those two have had, Alabama since 2008 and Ohio St. for pretty much the whole BCS/playoff era.

Not quite the run of those two, but ND is on a a 23-3 run the past two seasons and a 33-6 run the past three years.

It also has 4 double digit win seasons in the past five years.

It had two undefeated seasons in 2012 and 2018, netting them a national championship game and a playoff appearances.

So, the reports of ND's death or great declined are greatly exaggerated.

Too bad it's not translating to success on the screen.