(02-12-2020 12:13 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(02-11-2020 09:53 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  Nice to get a win! Saunders made plays during winning time! That's now 13 wins in a row against Miami for the Rockets!

Incredible streak. All time record at 41-18... Seems high for a program with a decent history like them.

Akron just won their 29th of 32 against Bgs??? Wow.

All time vs Miami is 61-67.
Miami (OH) 128 61 67 .477 8454 8684 -230 66.0 67.8 -1.8

From Sports-reference.com.

I'm for wins!!!
Especially getting off the schneid.

It was a struggle and you can say it was only Miami, but it was nice to see Toledo make the plays down the stretch once they cut our lead to 1 point late in the game. It was also nice to see us get a victory with Luke Knapke not having a particular good offensive game. I would like to see him post more down in the box in games where he has an advantage height and skill wise like last night. I would also like to see Spencer Littleson get more shots, whether its in the structure of the offense or having him look for his shot more. He's too good a shooter to have the limited amount of shots he took last night and in previous games. Hopefully he can gut it out against Buffalo on Friday night and then have a week for rest and rehab before our next game at WMU. We will need all "hands on deck" if we're going to improve our seeding for the upcoming MAC Tournament.

(02-12-2020 12:40 PM)Basketball Jones Wrote:  It was a struggle and you can say it was only Miami, but it was nice to see Toledo make the plays down the stretch once they cut our lead to 1 point late in the game. It was also nice to see us get a victory with Luke Knapke not having a particular good offensive game. I would like to see him post more down in the box in games where he has an advantage height and skill wise like last night. I would also like to see Spencer Littleson get more shots, whether its in the structure of the offense or having him look for his shot more. He's too good a shooter to have the limited amount of shots he took last night and in previous games. Hopefully he can gut it out against Buffalo on Friday night and then have a week for rest and rehab before our next game at WMU. We will need all "hands on deck" if we're going to improve our seeding for the upcoming MAC Tournament.

Postiing up Knapke has been effective in a few games but MAC opponents have responded by collapsing defenders around him and stripping the ball, or forcing Luke to pass out to the perimeter which has too frequently resulted in bad passes and turnovers rather than open 3 pt opportunities. Both LK and Willie Jackson have had Star Trek spells where there passes ventured out into "strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before."

(02-12-2020 01:00 PM)Sleepy Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 12:40 PM)Basketball Jones Wrote:  It was a struggle and you can say it was only Miami, but it was nice to see Toledo make the plays down the stretch once they cut our lead to 1 point late in the game. It was also nice to see us get a victory with Luke Knapke not having a particular good offensive game. I would like to see him post more down in the box in games where he has an advantage height and skill wise like last night. I would also like to see Spencer Littleson get more shots, whether its in the structure of the offense or having him look for his shot more. He's too good a shooter to have the limited amount of shots he took last night and in previous games. Hopefully he can gut it out against Buffalo on Friday night and then have a week for rest and rehab before our next game at WMU. We will need all "hands on deck" if we're going to improve our seeding for the upcoming MAC Tournament.

Postiing up Knapke has been effective in a few games but MAC opponents have responded by collapsing defenders around him and stripping the ball, or forcing Luke to pass out to the perimeter which has too frequently resulted in bad passes and turnovers rather than open 3 pt opportunities. Both LK and Willie Jackson have had Star Trek spells where there passes ventured out into "strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before."

MJ had a beautiful cross-court one to the Miami fan in the third row. Dumb Littleson tried to ruin it by jumping up and trying to catch it but it clearly wasn’t intended for anyone anywhere near the floor

(02-12-2020 08:33 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 12:13 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(02-11-2020 09:53 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  Nice to get a win! Saunders made plays during winning time! That's now 13 wins in a row against Miami for the Rockets!

Incredible streak. All time record at 41-18... Seems high for a program with a decent history like them.

Akron just won their 29th of 32 against Bgs??? Wow.

All time vs Miami is 61-67.
Miami (OH) 128 61 67 .477 8454 8684 -230 66.0 67.8 -1.8

From Sports-reference.com.

Blame ESPN+ for that one.

Willie may not lead the country in rebounding but he is clearly first in passes at least 5 feet over teammates' heads.

If Willie had another year of eligibility, UT would have to put up screening around the court just like professional baseball teams are doing this year. His passes are as dangerous to fans as foul balls.

(02-12-2020 04:36 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 08:33 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 12:13 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(02-11-2020 09:53 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  Nice to get a win! Saunders made plays during winning time! That's now 13 wins in a row against Miami for the Rockets!

Incredible streak. All time record at 41-18... Seems high for a program with a decent history like them.

Akron just won their 29th of 32 against Bgs??? Wow.

All time vs Miami is 61-67.
Miami (OH) 128 61 67 .477 8454 8684 -230 66.0 67.8 -1.8

From Sports-reference.com.

Blame ESPN+ for that one.

Even if we only played them once a year those total games wouldn’t add up. I think they were 37-0 against us during the Harper years. Felt like it anyway.

(02-12-2020 06:32 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 04:36 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 08:33 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 12:13 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(02-11-2020 09:53 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  Nice to get a win! Saunders made plays during winning time! That's now 13 wins in a row against Miami for the Rockets!

Incredible streak. All time record at 41-18... Seems high for a program with a decent history like them.

Akron just won their 29th of 32 against Bgs??? Wow.

All time vs Miami is 61-67.
Miami (OH) 128 61 67 .477 8454 8684 -230 66.0 67.8 -1.8

From Sports-reference.com.

Blame ESPN+ for that one.

Even if we only played them once a year those total games wouldn’t add up. I think they were 37-0 against us during the Harper years. Felt like it anyway.

Ron Harper was a hell of a basketball player. Even though he pounded us like a drum, I respected his talent.

And it sure did. :-(

(02-12-2020 08:15 PM)Screwball Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 06:32 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 04:36 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 08:33 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 12:13 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Incredible streak. All time record at 41-18... Seems high for a program with a decent history like them.

Akron just won their 29th of 32 against Bgs??? Wow.

All time vs Miami is 61-67.
Miami (OH) 128 61 67 .477 8454 8684 -230 66.0 67.8 -1.8

From Sports-reference.com.

Blame ESPN+ for that one.

Even if we only played them once a year those total games wouldn’t add up. I think they were 37-0 against us during the Harper years. Felt like it anyway.

Ron Harper was a hell of a basketball player. Even though he pounded us like a drum, I respected his talent.

And it sure did. :-(

One of the 2 or 3 best I’ve seen in the MAC.

(02-12-2020 08:55 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 08:15 PM)Screwball Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 06:32 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 04:36 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 08:33 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  All time vs Miami is 61-67.
Miami (OH) 128 61 67 .477 8454 8684 -230 66.0 67.8 -1.8

From Sports-reference.com.

Blame ESPN+ for that one.

Even if we only played them once a year those total games wouldn’t add up. I think they were 37-0 against us during the Harper years. Felt like it anyway.

Ron Harper was a hell of a basketball player. Even though he pounded us like a drum, I respected his talent.

And it sure did. :-(

One of the 2 or 3 best I’ve seen in the MAC.

No doubt. Harper, Wally Szczerbiak, and Dan Majerle come to mind when I think of the top 3. Not necessarily in that order. Probably missing someone. Too young to remember much about Nate Thurmond.

(02-13-2020 03:31 PM)Screwball Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 08:55 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 08:15 PM)Screwball Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 06:32 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 04:36 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Blame ESPN+ for that one.

Even if we only played them once a year those total games wouldn’t add up. I think they were 37-0 against us during the Harper years. Felt like it anyway.

Ron Harper was a hell of a basketball player. Even though he pounded us like a drum, I respected his talent.

And it sure did. :-(

One of the 2 or 3 best I’ve seen in the MAC.

No doubt. Harper, Wally Szczerbiak, and Dan Majerle come to mind when I think of the top 3. Not necessarily in that order. Probably missing someone. Too young to remember much about Nate Thurmond.

For me those three are right up there. I’ll add Trent. I’m leaving out UT guys.

If you pick the ten best basketball players at Toledo in the last 60 or so years, how many of them do you think played since 2000? Older fans will tell you not many and that says something. (I’m getting my information from a friend who is old.) ?

(02-13-2020 09:22 PM)rkt Wrote:  If you pick the ten best basketball players at Toledo in the last 60 or so years, how many of them do you think played since 2000? Older fans will tell you not many and that says something. (I’m getting my information from a friend who is old.) ?

I go back to Mix so I can speak to the issue. Two or three of Coach K’s teams would have won the MAC handily in the 60s and 70s. Players are so much better trained and experienced when they arrive. I would put the Pearson/Brown/Booth team against any Rocket team ever and say they’d win six of ten. Brown, Pearson, Booth and now Marreon could be Top Ten contenders. The league is just so much tougher now.

(02-13-2020 10:14 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-13-2020 09:22 PM)rkt Wrote:  If you pick the ten best basketball players at Toledo in the last 60 or so years, how many of them do you think played since 2000? Older fans will tell you not many and that says something. (I’m getting my information from a friend who is old.) ?

I go back to Mix so I can speak to the issue. Two or three of Coach K’s teams would have won the MAC handily in the 60s and 70s. Players are so much better trained and experienced when they arrive. I would put the Pearson/Brown/Booth team against any Rocket team ever and say they’d win six of ten. Brown, Pearson, Booth and now Marreon could be Top Ten contenders. The league is just so much tougher now.

It's a tricky what-if game isn't it? How many of today's heavy weights would put down Ali?... Put them all in the same era, same training.

Those older era players were every bit as obsessed, with fewer distractions. The games played on the lots now pale in comparison. And they realized early there were others on the team. They realized defense was part of the game yet they could still put up a hundred, two at a time. If the rules are called, today's bigger bodies mean na da.

I'd give your guys two wins.

(02-13-2020 10:14 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-13-2020 09:22 PM)rkt Wrote:  If you pick the ten best basketball players at Toledo in the last 60 or so years, how many of them do you think played since 2000? Older fans will tell you not many and that says something. (I’m getting my information from a friend who is old.) ?

I go back to Mix so I can speak to the issue. Two or three of Coach K’s teams would have won the MAC handily in the 60s and 70s. Players are so much better trained and experienced when they arrive. I would put the Pearson/Brown/Booth team against any Rocket team ever and say they’d win six of ten. Brown, Pearson, Booth and now Marreon could be Top Ten contenders. The league is just so much tougher now.

I would agree that it is difficult to compare different eras of players. Players always adjust to the competition. We also have many players now that focus on just one sport in high school - and play it year round. Then there is training with weightlifting becoming more common. Also medical advances in surgeries is far superior so guys with cartilage tears, etc. can get scoped and back on the field or court in about 3-4 weeks (depending on severity) and have no lingering issues or pain.

I guess I always think of somebody like Willie Mays. His first year in the majors was 1951. He played through the 1973 season and at age 42 - he could still homer off guys throwing a lot more gas, and seeing the start of the relievers being used more often. Also went through a couple of expansion years that tended to dilute pitching talent. He adjusted, and I'm willing to bet (because I could never lose) that he would have hit just as well in the 1970's and he did in the '50's - if he was still 22-28 years old then.

I guess I still like the remark made by Larry Bird when asked how the Dream Team of 1992 would have done against the most recent Dream Team that had Lebron James, Chris Paul, Durant, etc. etc. He said he thought they would win about 4 out of a 7 game series. When asked why he thought it would be that close - he replied, well - we're all in our late 50's now...

Not sure I have that quote completely accurate, but it was something like that...

Here is a link to the top 50 MAC players from 1990 to 2015. Good list. I forgot Earl Boykins, and how did I forget the amazing Bonzi Wells? Other good names on there as well (Gates, but went to football).

The Top 50 MAC Basketball Players: 1990-2015

(02-14-2020 10:29 AM)Screwball Wrote:  Here is a link to the top 50 MAC players from 1990 to 2015. Good list. I forgot Earl Boykins, and how did I forget the amazing Bonzi Wells? Other good names on there as well (Gates, but went to football).

The Top 50 MAC Basketball Players: 1990-2015

Great list. I forgot about so many of those guys. My favorite (only) moment of the xxxx era was our 6’10” guy, Ian Salter, driving to the hoop and jamming over Branden Bowdry. Forgot all about Bowdry.

(02-14-2020 10:59 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 10:29 AM)Screwball Wrote:  Here is a link to the top 50 MAC players from 1990 to 2015. Good list. I forgot Earl Boykins, and how did I forget the amazing Bonzi Wells? Other good names on there as well (Gates, but went to football).

The Top 50 MAC Basketball Players: 1990-2015

Great list. I forgot about so many of those guys. My favorite (only) moment of the xxxx era was our 6’10” guy, Ian Salter, driving to the hoop and jamming over Branden Bowdry. Forgot all about Bowdry.

Salter’s dunk was every bit as impressive as Stempin’s dunk over the 3 osu guys in 99...

(02-13-2020 10:14 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-13-2020 09:22 PM)rkt Wrote:  If you pick the ten best basketball players at Toledo in the last 60 or so years, how many of them do you think played since 2000? Older fans will tell you not many and that says something. (I’m getting my information from a friend who is old.) ?

I go back to Mix so I can speak to the issue. Two or three of Coach K’s teams would have won the MAC handily in the 60s and 70s. Players are so much better trained and experienced when they arrive. I would put the Pearson/Brown/Booth team against any Rocket team ever and say they’d win six of ten. Brown, Pearson, Booth and now Marreon could be Top Ten contenders. The league is just so much tougher now.

I usually agree with your opinions but I think you whiffed on this one. Mix, Brisker, Ridley, Miller, Backensto, Babione, etc. would have toyed with any of TK’s best teams. Swaney, Knuckles (both POY) Selgo, Lehman ... same thing. Dick Miller would’ve had his way with our recent inside guys just on strength and toughness. Those teams and others of that era had a competitive toughness just not seen recently. Jay Lehman was short, not very quick and had might have been able to jump over a phone book if it was from a fairly small city. But he took Ronnie Lester (a future NBA player) to the basket for an and-one at a critical point in the Iowa game in the NCAA tournament (anybody remember what that is) on nothing but determination. Which reminds me, three of those teams got in the tournament. Of course, they had a slightly above average coach.