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That’s Enough, Fordham
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That’s Enough, Fordham
02-06-2020 12:11 AM
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ken d Online
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
The MAAC is exactly where Fordham belongs. All of their natural regional rivals would be together.
02-06-2020 07:58 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 07:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  The MAAC is exactly where Fordham belongs. All of their natural regional rivals would be together.

They belong in the Patriot. They are totally that kind of school, and they recruit accordingly.

I get the impression the academic index, while it doesn't apply to Fordham basketball the same way as it does to Fordham football in the Patriot, is still something very much considered there at the school. They probably chase some of the same guys Patriot and Ivy chase, and use the A10 exposure to their benefit. Never seems to have worked, though.
02-06-2020 08:18 AM
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
Replace them with Sienna?

07-coffee3
02-06-2020 08:40 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 08:40 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Replace them with Sienna?

07-coffee3

The A10 core sure does love them some Siena. I'd be happier with Vermont, or if they'd continue looking down the coast for someone. I never understood the appeal of CoC, because it was unrealized potential, but, if you're swapping out Fordham, anything is an upgrade.
02-06-2020 08:48 AM
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 08:18 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 07:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  The MAAC is exactly where Fordham belongs. All of their natural regional rivals would be together.

They belong in the Patriot. They are totally that kind of school, and they recruit accordingly.

I get the impression the academic index, while it doesn't apply to Fordham basketball the same way as it does to Fordham football in the Patriot, is still something very much considered there at the school. They probably chase some of the same guys Patriot and Ivy chase, and use the A10 exposure to their benefit. Never seems to have worked, though.

Agreed. They are much more like those schools. I never understood the draw with them and the Atlantic-10.
02-06-2020 09:20 AM
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 09:20 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 08:18 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 07:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  The MAAC is exactly where Fordham belongs. All of their natural regional rivals would be together.

They belong in the Patriot. They are totally that kind of school, and they recruit accordingly.

I get the impression the academic index, while it doesn't apply to Fordham basketball the same way as it does to Fordham football in the Patriot, is still something very much considered there at the school. They probably chase some of the same guys Patriot and Ivy chase, and use the A10 exposure to their benefit. Never seems to have worked, though.

Agreed. They are much more like those schools. I never understood the draw with them and the Atlantic-10.


If you're going to suck, might as well suck in a conference that earns more NCAA credits.
02-06-2020 09:48 AM
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 09:20 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 08:18 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 07:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  The MAAC is exactly where Fordham belongs. All of their natural regional rivals would be together.

They belong in the Patriot. They are totally that kind of school, and they recruit accordingly.

I get the impression the academic index, while it doesn't apply to Fordham basketball the same way as it does to Fordham football in the Patriot, is still something very much considered there at the school. They probably chase some of the same guys Patriot and Ivy chase, and use the A10 exposure to their benefit. Never seems to have worked, though.

Agreed. They are much more like those schools. I never understood the draw with them and the Atlantic-10.

I can see the Patriot, but let's face it. We see this fan logic everywhere with respect to conference realignment, where "School X is in higher-level Conference A but would be doing sooooo much better in lower-level Conference B."

Maybe it's true and may it's not true, but it's pretty rare to see any school *willingly* downgrade conferences. The leaders at schools don't ever think that way... and I totally understand. If Fordham left the A-10 for the MAAC and then starts doing well, then they're going to eventually want to upgrade conferences, which means they'd want to go to a conference like... the A-10. If I'm a university president running Fordham, that's a non-starter to go through that type of circle. Being in the best possible conference that will have you *is* the end game for the vast majority of schools in America. There's no such thing in conference realignment as going a step backwards in order to try to go two steps forward. That simply doesn't happen. Once you have a place in the best conference possible, you simply don't give that place up, no matter how the performance on-the-field/court might be there.
02-06-2020 10:00 AM
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esayem Offline
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
Nah, Fordham is a good fit. They just need to spend a little money and make better hires.
02-06-2020 10:47 AM
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 10:47 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nah, Fordham is a good fit. They just need to spend a little money and make better hires.

I always find it amusing when a booster from one team takes on what another school should do. Seems to be a bit over-reaching.

It must have been a down day for his team!
02-06-2020 11:11 AM
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esayem Offline
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 11:11 AM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 10:47 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nah, Fordham is a good fit. They just need to spend a little money and make better hires.

I always find it amusing when a booster from one team takes on what another school should do. Seems to be a bit over-reaching.

It must have been a down day for his team!

Yeah, it’s strange. If St. Joe’s can be successful for years in the league, then Fordham is surely capable. Not sure why any schools in the region haven’t thrown a pile of money at Tim Cluess.
02-06-2020 11:33 AM
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 10:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 09:20 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 08:18 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 07:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  The MAAC is exactly where Fordham belongs. All of their natural regional rivals would be together.

They belong in the Patriot. They are totally that kind of school, and they recruit accordingly.

I get the impression the academic index, while it doesn't apply to Fordham basketball the same way as it does to Fordham football in the Patriot, is still something very much considered there at the school. They probably chase some of the same guys Patriot and Ivy chase, and use the A10 exposure to their benefit. Never seems to have worked, though.

Agreed. They are much more like those schools. I never understood the draw with them and the Atlantic-10.

I can see the Patriot, but let's face it. We see this fan logic everywhere with respect to conference realignment, where "School X is in higher-level Conference A but would be doing sooooo much better in lower-level Conference B."

Maybe it's true and may it's not true, but it's pretty rare to see any school *willingly* downgrade conferences. The leaders at schools don't ever think that way... and I totally understand. If Fordham left the A-10 for the MAAC and then starts doing well, then they're going to eventually want to upgrade conferences, which means they'd want to go to a conference like... the A-10. If I'm a university president running Fordham, that's a non-starter to go through that type of circle. Being in the best possible conference that will have you *is* the end game for the vast majority of schools in America. There's no such thing in conference realignment as going a step backwards in order to try to go two steps forward. That simply doesn't happen. Once you have a place in the best conference possible, you simply don't give that place up, no matter how the performance on-the-field/court might be there.

It's certainly true that schools won't do that as a rule, but it's hard to understand what they really stand to gain out of consistently finishing 13th or 14th in a league that still doesn't generate a ton of revenue or give them a ton of national exposure. Is 25 years of that better than 25 years in the MAAC with a few NCAA tournament bids?
02-06-2020 12:09 PM
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Post: #13
RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
I'd like to see UMBC in the A10 one day and wouldn't mind Delaware as well.
02-06-2020 12:22 PM
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 08:48 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 08:40 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Replace them with Sienna?

07-coffee3

The A10 core sure does love them some Siena. I'd be happier with Vermont, or if they'd continue looking down the coast for someone. I never understood the appeal of CoC, because it was unrealized potential, but, if you're swapping out Fordham, anything is an upgrade.

I'd also be happier with Vermont. They've just spent a lot of money upgrading their facilities as well, and Becker is a hell of a coach with a good program. The campus is beautiful and right on lake Champlain...also there's lots of good beer, cider, and cheese in the area.
02-06-2020 12:38 PM
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ken d Online
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 11:33 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:11 AM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 10:47 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nah, Fordham is a good fit. They just need to spend a little money and make better hires.

I always find it amusing when a booster from one team takes on what another school should do. Seems to be a bit over-reaching.

It must have been a down day for his team!

Yeah, it’s strange. If St. Joe’s can be successful for years in the league, then Fordham is surely capable. Not sure why any schools in the region haven’t thrown a pile of money at Tim Cluess.

St. Joe's actually has a strong basketball tradition dating back to Big Five days in Philly. Fordham has none at all. They would have a pretty decent gym if they were a high school team. It's a commuter school in the Bronx (not far from "Fort Apache" territory).

Recruiting is always going to be a challenge at Fordham. Their athletic peers (not just in hoops) are always going to be Catholic schools like Iona, Manhattan, St. Peter's, Fairfield and the like where they would have minimal travel expenses. They are outclassed (athletically, at least) in the A-10.
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2020 12:55 PM by ken d.)
02-06-2020 12:54 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 12:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:33 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:11 AM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 10:47 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nah, Fordham is a good fit. They just need to spend a little money and make better hires.

I always find it amusing when a booster from one team takes on what another school should do. Seems to be a bit over-reaching.

It must have been a down day for his team!

Yeah, it’s strange. If St. Joe’s can be successful for years in the league, then Fordham is surely capable. Not sure why any schools in the region haven’t thrown a pile of money at Tim Cluess.

St. Joe's actually has a strong basketball tradition dating back to Big Five days in Philly. Fordham has none at all. They would have a pretty decent gym if they were a high school team. It's a commuter school in the Bronx (not far from "Fort Apache" territory).

Recruiting is always going to be a challenge at Fordham. Their athletic peers (not just in hoops) are always going to be Catholic schools like Iona, Manhattan, St. Peter's, Fairfield and the like where they would have minimal travel expenses. They are outclassed (athletically, at least) in the A-10.

I disagree, Fordham dwarfs those schools in enrollment size and is much more in line with Georgetown than Manhattan.

The odd thing is they joined the Patriot only to leave for the A10 after a few seasons. The A10 really wanted Fordham, and I don’t think it was a bad decision, they just need to get the right coach (like every school).
02-06-2020 01:31 PM
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Post: #17
RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
University presidents are not going to change affiliation because it is easier to win is sport X or Y in a different conference. The only time they "downgrade" is when there is a philosophical reason for it. Like Centenary or Birmingham Southern opting for Division III to align with similar minded schools.

Then you get less understandable decisions like Jacksonville leaving Sun Belt to align with UCF, FIU, and FAU and FIU was out the door to replace JU about as fast as it happened and the other two were gone soon as well. Lamar wanting to recapture the good old days of the Southland then suddenly wishing they were back in the Sun Belt.
02-06-2020 02:34 PM
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ken d Online
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 01:31 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 12:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:33 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:11 AM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 10:47 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nah, Fordham is a good fit. They just need to spend a little money and make better hires.

I always find it amusing when a booster from one team takes on what another school should do. Seems to be a bit over-reaching.

It must have been a down day for his team!

Yeah, it’s strange. If St. Joe’s can be successful for years in the league, then Fordham is surely capable. Not sure why any schools in the region haven’t thrown a pile of money at Tim Cluess.

St. Joe's actually has a strong basketball tradition dating back to Big Five days in Philly. Fordham has none at all. They would have a pretty decent gym if they were a high school team. It's a commuter school in the Bronx (not far from "Fort Apache" territory).

Recruiting is always going to be a challenge at Fordham. Their athletic peers (not just in hoops) are always going to be Catholic schools like Iona, Manhattan, St. Peter's, Fairfield and the like where they would have minimal travel expenses. They are outclassed (athletically, at least) in the A-10.

I disagree, Fordham dwarfs those schools in enrollment size and is much more in line with Georgetown than Manhattan.

The odd thing is they joined the Patriot only to leave for the A10 after a few seasons. The A10 really wanted Fordham, and I don’t think it was a bad decision, they just need to get the right coach (like every school).

Not in athletics they're not. Since they dropped football in the early fifties they have had no athletic tradition at all. That's unlikely to change. If they were to find lightning in a bottle and luck into a great coach, he wouldn't last more than a year before moving on to greener pastures.
02-06-2020 02:53 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 12:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:33 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:11 AM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 10:47 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nah, Fordham is a good fit. They just need to spend a little money and make better hires.

I always find it amusing when a booster from one team takes on what another school should do. Seems to be a bit over-reaching.

It must have been a down day for his team!

Yeah, it’s strange. If St. Joe’s can be successful for years in the league, then Fordham is surely capable. Not sure why any schools in the region haven’t thrown a pile of money at Tim Cluess.

St. Joe's actually has a strong basketball tradition dating back to Big Five days in Philly. Fordham has none at all. They would have a pretty decent gym if they were a high school team. It's a commuter school in the Bronx (not far from "Fort Apache" territory).

Recruiting is always going to be a challenge at Fordham. Their athletic peers (not just in hoops) are always going to be Catholic schools like Iona, Manhattan, St. Peter's, Fairfield and the like where they would have minimal travel expenses. They are outclassed (athletically, at least) in the A-10.

I don't find much similarity between Saint Joe's and Fordham. Fordham recruits against Columbia and NYU. Saint Joe's, beyond its business programs...they'd be no different than La Salle, and I don't know how they get by.

Fordham is very much like the Patriot schools, thus the comparison. But, I don't disagree that you can't force them to downgrade because we as fans think they don't fit.

The A10 wanted them at that one time Fordham was remotely trending up. It got them their NYC school, and it is not unlike some of the other A10 members at that time academically.

But, the pickup hasn't aged well, although the A10 has certainly changed over the years.
02-06-2020 03:09 PM
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RE: That’s Enough, Fordham
(02-06-2020 12:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:33 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:11 AM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 10:47 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nah, Fordham is a good fit. They just need to spend a little money and make better hires.

I always find it amusing when a booster from one team takes on what another school should do. Seems to be a bit over-reaching.

It must have been a down day for his team!

Yeah, it’s strange. If St. Joe’s can be successful for years in the league, then Fordham is surely capable. Not sure why any schools in the region haven’t thrown a pile of money at Tim Cluess.

St. Joe's actually has a strong basketball tradition dating back to Big Five days in Philly. Fordham has none at all. They would have a pretty decent gym if they were a high school team. It's a commuter school in the Bronx (not far from "Fort Apache" territory).

Recruiting is always going to be a challenge at Fordham. Their athletic peers (not just in hoops) are always going to be Catholic schools like Iona, Manhattan, St. Peter's, Fairfield and the like where they would have minimal travel expenses. They are outclassed (athletically, at least) in the A-10.

I know several people who are St. Joe's fans. None of them went to St. Joe's.

I've never met a Fordham fan.
02-06-2020 03:31 PM
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