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Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 08:43 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  It may just be me but I think a conference with a footprint like this is a large enough one for a D1 conference.

Buffalo
Cleveland
Detroit
Cincinnati
Indianapolis
Chicago

Why does the MAC have to expand out of the Great Lakes?

What the MAC needs is to step up to an MWC type TV deal and get out of the Midweek games.

Exactly! Why can't an Eastern/Central conference with schools overshadowed by multiple P5s just go and get the same kind of deal as a conference with flagship and only-game-in-town schools that play in the Mountain and Pacific where college football content is much scarcer?
02-04-2020 10:08 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
Forget the MAC, Marshall should start their own conference!

South: Marshall, WKU, Midd Tenn, App State, Charolette, Coastal Carolina

North: Buffalo, UMass, UConn (FB Only), ODU, JMU, Delaware
02-04-2020 10:53 PM
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Post: #83
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 10:08 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 08:43 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  It may just be me but I think a conference with a footprint like this is a large enough one for a D1 conference.

Buffalo
Cleveland
Detroit
Cincinnati
Indianapolis
Chicago

Why does the MAC have to expand out of the Great Lakes?

What the MAC needs is to step up to an MWC type TV deal and get out of the Midweek games.

Exactly! Why can't an Eastern/Central conference with schools overshadowed by multiple P5s just go and get the same kind of deal as a conference with flagship and only-game-in-town schools that play in the Mountain and Pacific where college football content is much scarcer?

This flagship stuff doesn't matter. If it did the Big Sky and Summit conferences would have much better TV deals. They are flagships of rural states.

The MAC has endowments that are comparable to the MWC and both are overflow for their respective P5 conferences (B1G and PAC) in their distinct regions.

They play each other in 2 bowl games. TV deals are all about football. MAC upgraded its bowls for 2020-2025 so why can't the TV deal be next?
02-04-2020 11:34 PM
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Illini60940 Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 05:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 12:58 PM)Illini60940 Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:42 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  If you are going to include FCS teams, JMU is by far the best option.

They need to avoid current FCS teams. And they need good basketball schools.

Why avoid current FCS teams? Options out there like Illinois St and Northern Iowa in the Midwest that are better long term conference members than some current MAC schools.

James Madison obviously a quality program, but not sure if a fit in a midwestern conference.

They need to raise the conference, not add a team in the bottom third.

You really think schools like Northern Iowa and Illinois St would be bottom 1/3 of the MAC? They have solid fan bases and very competitive programs, both good schools with solid academics. If I am a MAC fan, ISU probably the first choice as they are the "State" school of a large state.
02-05-2020 08:58 AM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
If the MAC were smart, imho, they’d go after UCONN for fb only and work out yearly scheduling agreements for basketball. They would be competitive immediately in fb and boost the MAC for a ooc bb. Then go after perhaps EKU, JMU, or Delaware.
02-05-2020 11:11 AM
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46566 Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 11:34 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:08 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 08:43 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  It may just be me but I think a conference with a footprint like this is a large enough one for a D1 conference.

Buffalo
Cleveland
Detroit
Cincinnati
Indianapolis
Chicago

Why does the MAC have to expand out of the Great Lakes?

What the MAC needs is to step up to an MWC type TV deal and get out of the Midweek games.

Exactly! Why can't an Eastern/Central conference with schools overshadowed by multiple P5s just go and get the same kind of deal as a conference with flagship and only-game-in-town schools that play in the Mountain and Pacific where college football content is much scarcer?

This flagship stuff doesn't matter. If it did the Big Sky and Summit conferences would have much better TV deals. They are flagships of rural states.

The MAC has endowments that are comparable to the MWC and both are overflow for their respective P5 conferences (B1G and PAC) in their distinct regions.

They play each other in 2 bowl games. TV deals are all about football. MAC upgraded its bowls for 2020-2025 so why can't the TV deal be next?

The mountain west has to deal with the PAC 12. The Mac has to deal with the Big 10 and the AAC. That's just for football. For sports the east is loaded with games from the big 10, ACC, and SEC. You also have to deal with the other G5 start times AAC, C-USA and Sun Belt have early kick offs. Later in the day the Big 12 games start and around 3 pm eastern are noon PAC 12 kickoffs. Really after 6pm Pacific all you have is the MWC and PAC 12 games. That's the value the MWC has is that it's mostly going against 1 other conference most of the time. With Hawaii home it could lock up the 8 pm time slot for ESPN.(any west coast team can really)
02-05-2020 02:59 PM
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utpotts Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
The pure stupidity in this thread................
02-05-2020 03:31 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-05-2020 11:11 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  If the MAC were smart, imho, they’d go after UCONN for fb only and work out yearly scheduling agreements for basketball. They would be competitive immediately in fb and boost the MAC for a ooc bb. Then go after perhaps EKU, JMU, or Delaware.

With 20 Big East games, the Gavitt Games and/or Big East-Big 12 Battle, made-for-TV games against power competition and the usual cans that populate the early home schedule, UConn really doesn't have the ability to offer a scheduling agreement for a G5 football home. They're not about to burn a nationally televised game or home date to schlep to Bowling Green so their awful football program can have a place to suck.
02-05-2020 03:57 PM
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Post: #89
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-04-2020 11:34 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:08 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 08:43 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  It may just be me but I think a conference with a footprint like this is a large enough one for a D1 conference.

Buffalo
Cleveland
Detroit
Cincinnati
Indianapolis
Chicago

Why does the MAC have to expand out of the Great Lakes?

What the MAC needs is to step up to an MWC type TV deal and get out of the Midweek games.

Exactly! Why can't an Eastern/Central conference with schools overshadowed by multiple P5s just go and get the same kind of deal as a conference with flagship and only-game-in-town schools that play in the Mountain and Pacific where college football content is much scarcer?

This flagship stuff doesn't matter. If it did the Big Sky and Summit conferences would have much better TV deals. They are flagships of rural states.

The MAC has endowments that are comparable to the MWC and both are overflow for their respective P5 conferences (B1G and PAC) in their distinct regions.

They play each other in 2 bowl games. TV deals are all about football. MAC upgraded its bowls for 2020-2025 so why can't the TV deal be next?

Not at all alike:
One side of the country:Big10,Big12,SEC,ACC,AAC,SB, CUSA,MAC (8)
Other side of the country: PAC & MWC (2)
02-05-2020 04:19 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #90
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
I'd like to know from fans of MAC teams how they feel about late season MACtion. I haven't seen the numbers (feel free to provide), but it seems like there is a trade off of attendance (i.e., ticket sales, concessions, etc.) for exposure (and TV revenue)for all those late season non-Saturday games. Is it worth while?

Also, it SEEMS like bringing in a Marshall, and JMU, and/or a North Dakota State (football only) would be a net positive, but I know less about the MAC than you would.

Share your thoughts, please.
02-05-2020 04:34 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-05-2020 04:34 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I'd like to know from fans of MAC teams how they feel about late season MACtion. I haven't seen the numbers (feel free to provide), but it seems like there is a trade off of attendance (i.e., ticket sales, concessions, etc.) for exposure (and TV revenue)for all those late season non-Saturday games. Is it worth while?

Also, it SEEMS like bringing in a Marshall, and JMU, and/or a North Dakota State (football only) would be a net positive, but I know less about the MAC than you would.

Share your thoughts, please.

It takes a bite out of attendance, without a doubt, but in terms of actual numbers, not as much as some people make out. These are schools in the Great Lakes region, after all ... there's a lot of "I WOULD attend, BUT" attendance claims that when faced with a bitter cold or rainy late November Saturday would in reality turn into staying home. I was in Marching Band in HS in central Ohio, and the Friday Night Lights enthusiasm in that part of the country is stronger in September than November for very good reason.

And while we can't run a truly controlled experiment to see, I think the opportunity to be on ESPN during the #MACtion period is, on balance, good for recruiting.

IMNSHO, the MAC should make the best of what it has and organize a "Rivalry Weekend" for the 3rd Saturday of October. Get the crowds in the stands to the extent possible when the weather better.

As far as bringing in Marshall, you can't add a school against their will, and Marshall is better off in CUSA East than MAC East, so it's a moot point.

As far as bringing in NDSU, if they move to Milwaukee or any point south or east of there, sure ... but as long as they are in North Dakota, it's too far away.

As far as JMU as a #14 add, if there's a #13, JMU wouldn't be the worst #14. But since there isn't a #13 ... another moot point.
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2020 07:17 PM by BruceMcF.)
02-05-2020 07:09 PM
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Post: #92
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
C-USA East + Liberty + JMU + a SBC East school

There’s a very reasonable conference for Marshall and you still get Florida recruiting

Want to tighten up the footprint? Swap the Florida pair for 2 more SBC East schools (the 3 I’d take are App St, GA St, and GA Southern)
02-05-2020 07:41 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #93
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-05-2020 07:09 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  As far as bringing in NDSU, if they move to Milwaukee or any point south or east of there, sure ... but as long as they are in North Dakota, it's too far away.

As an all-sports member, sure, but if you're talking FB only, that's a North Dakota trip once every two or four seasons, depending on scheduling. You don't want to send all your teams there every season, but if NDSU can burnish the MAC's football bona fides as an affiliate, I think the MAC can make it happen, presuming there'd be mutual interest.
02-05-2020 08:04 PM
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Post: #94
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-05-2020 04:34 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I'd like to know from fans of MAC teams how they feel about late season MACtion. I haven't seen the numbers (feel free to provide), but it seems like there is a trade off of attendance (i.e., ticket sales, concessions, etc.) for exposure (and TV revenue)for all those late season non-Saturday games. Is it worth while?

Also, it SEEMS like bringing in a Marshall, and JMU, and/or a North Dakota State (football only) would be a net positive, but I know less about the MAC than you would.

Share your thoughts, please.

Yes, November MACtion is worth the exposure.

Why does everybody think it is up to Marshall if they can come back to the MAC for the 3rd time? I don't think the MAC wants anything to do with them this time around. Besides, Marshall just needs to do what they are already doing, schedule a bunch of MAC teams in out of conference play.
02-05-2020 09:03 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
Because Marshall has a better fan base than every MAC school and spurred the golden age for the conference.
02-05-2020 10:02 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #96
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-05-2020 04:19 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:34 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:08 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 08:43 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  It may just be me but I think a conference with a footprint like this is a large enough one for a D1 conference.

Buffalo
Cleveland
Detroit
Cincinnati
Indianapolis
Chicago

Why does the MAC have to expand out of the Great Lakes?

What the MAC needs is to step up to an MWC type TV deal and get out of the Midweek games.

Exactly! Why can't an Eastern/Central conference with schools overshadowed by multiple P5s just go and get the same kind of deal as a conference with flagship and only-game-in-town schools that play in the Mountain and Pacific where college football content is much scarcer?

This flagship stuff doesn't matter. If it did the Big Sky and Summit conferences would have much better TV deals. They are flagships of rural states.

The MAC has endowments that are comparable to the MWC and both are overflow for their respective P5 conferences (B1G and PAC) in their distinct regions.

They play each other in 2 bowl games. TV deals are all about football. MAC upgraded its bowls for 2020-2025 so why can't the TV deal be next?

Not at all alike:
One side of the country:Big10,Big12,SEC,ACC,AAC,SB, CUSA,MAC (8)
Other side of the country: PAC & MWC (2)

West: PAC, MWC
Great Lakes: B1G, MAC
South: XII, SEC, AAC, ACC, CUSA, SBC
East Coast: B1G, ACC, AAC, CUSA

Ohio and Alabama are not in the same region just because they are both in the eastern half of the United States.

The number of conferences in a region doesn't directly reflect the crowding. The East Coast is still under populated with FBS programs relative to its population.

Its the power balance which is what makes PAC/MWC different than B1G/MAC. Back in the old WAC days prior to the 16 team expansion the PAC and WAC were often comparable in strength. The gap between the PAC and the other western conference has grown significantly with Utah flipping to the PAC and BYU leaving the MWC. The gap between the B1G and MAC is historically huge.

Just to get this straight I'm not saying the MAC will get MWC money at the next negotiation but that its the upper range of what is possible and should be the goal. Surely the MAC will not be able to score the TV exposure of the AAC. If the AAC and MWC both upgraded slots and increased TV dollars by 300% could the MAC?

Of course we know the AAC has been the most competitive G5 conference and deserved a better deal. But what did the MWC do? They did no more than the MAC in football as both placed 1 school in an access bowl. They just went out and negotiated a better deal.
02-05-2020 10:30 PM
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46566 Offline
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Post: #97
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-05-2020 10:30 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 04:19 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:34 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:08 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 08:43 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  It may just be me but I think a conference with a footprint like this is a large enough one for a D1 conference.

Buffalo
Cleveland
Detroit
Cincinnati
Indianapolis
Chicago

Why does the MAC have to expand out of the Great Lakes?

What the MAC needs is to step up to an MWC type TV deal and get out of the Midweek games.

Exactly! Why can't an Eastern/Central conference with schools overshadowed by multiple P5s just go and get the same kind of deal as a conference with flagship and only-game-in-town schools that play in the Mountain and Pacific where college football content is much scarcer?

This flagship stuff doesn't matter. If it did the Big Sky and Summit conferences would have much better TV deals. They are flagships of rural states.

The MAC has endowments that are comparable to the MWC and both are overflow for their respective P5 conferences (B1G and PAC) in their distinct regions.

They play each other in 2 bowl games. TV deals are all about football. MAC upgraded its bowls for 2020-2025 so why can't the TV deal be next?

Not at all alike:
One side of the country:Big10,Big12,SEC,ACC,AAC,SB, CUSA,MAC (8)
Other side of the country: PAC & MWC (2)

West: PAC, MWC
Great Lakes: B1G, MAC
South: XII, SEC, AAC, ACC, CUSA, SBC
East Coast: B1G, ACC, AAC, CUSA

Ohio and Alabama are not in the same region just because they are both in the eastern half of the United States.

The number of conferences in a region doesn't directly reflect the crowding. The East Coast is still under populated with FBS programs relative to its population.

Its the power balance which is what makes PAC/MWC different than B1G/MAC. Back in the old WAC days prior to the 16 team expansion the PAC and WAC were often comparable in strength. The gap between the PAC and the other western conference has grown significantly with Utah flipping to the PAC and BYU leaving the MWC. The gap between the B1G and MAC is historically huge.

Just to get this straight I'm not saying the MAC will get MWC money at the next negotiation but that its the upper range of what is possible and should be the goal. Surely the MAC will not be able to score the TV exposure of the AAC. If the AAC and MWC both upgraded slots and increased TV dollars by 300% could the MAC?

Of course we know the AAC has been the most competitive G5 conference and deserved a better deal. But what did the MWC do? They did no more than the MAC in football as both placed 1 school in an access bowl. They just went out and negotiated a better deal.

He was saying what I mentioned earlier MAC kick-off times are already taken by other conferences for football. There not getting allot of me hey for mid-week games. The Mountain West kickoffs usually have the not the PAC 12 going against it. We're looking at timezones and not where conferences are located.

Things get worse for the MAC if you add in basketball. There's allot of basketball conference in the east.(at least better conferences) The MAC has to sell with it's football which it hasn't done for the last few sessions.
02-05-2020 11:55 PM
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Post: #98
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-05-2020 04:34 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I'd like to know from fans of MAC teams how they feel about late season MACtion. I haven't seen the numbers (feel free to provide), but it seems like there is a trade off of attendance (i.e., ticket sales, concessions, etc.) for exposure (and TV revenue)for all those late season non-Saturday games. Is it worth while?

Also, it SEEMS like bringing in a Marshall, and JMU, and/or a North Dakota State (football only) would be a net positive, but I know less about the MAC than you would.

Share your thoughts, please.

I'm a fan of a MAC team which participates regularly in MACtion.

At first MACtion was the only way the MAC was going to get on National TV. Then as CUSA moved off ESPN it became a hedge against movement during realignment to have that deal in place.

Today with CFP system and not overlapping with other G5 conferences along with 6 bowl games the MAC doesn't have to sell its soul anymore to ESPN.
02-06-2020 07:13 AM
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Post: #99
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-05-2020 07:09 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 04:34 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I'd like to know from fans of MAC teams how they feel about late season MACtion. I haven't seen the numbers (feel free to provide), but it seems like there is a trade off of attendance (i.e., ticket sales, concessions, etc.) for exposure (and TV revenue)for all those late season non-Saturday games. Is it worth while?

Also, it SEEMS like bringing in a Marshall, and JMU, and/or a North Dakota State (football only) would be a net positive, but I know less about the MAC than you would.

Share your thoughts, please.

It takes a bite out of attendance, without a doubt, but in terms of actual numbers, not as much as some people make out. These are schools in the Great Lakes region, after all ... there's a lot of "I WOULD attend, BUT" attendance claims that when faced with a bitter cold or rainy late November Saturday would in reality turn into staying home. I was in Marching Band in HS in central Ohio, and the Friday Night Lights enthusiasm in that part of the country is stronger in September than November for very good reason.

And while we can't run a truly controlled experiment to see, I think the opportunity to be on ESPN during the #MACtion period is, on balance, good for recruiting.

IMNSHO, the MAC should make the best of what it has and organize a "Rivalry Weekend" for the 3rd Saturday of October. Get the crowds in the stands to the extent possible when the weather better.

As far as bringing in Marshall, you can't add a school against their will, and Marshall is better off in CUSA East than MAC East, so it's a moot point.

As far as bringing in NDSU, if they move to Milwaukee or any point south or east of there, sure ... but as long as they are in North Dakota, it's too far away.

As far as JMU as a #14 add, if there's a #13, JMU wouldn't be the worst #14. But since there isn't a #13 ... another moot point.

There are other schools out there that add value to the MAC, I have mentioned a few from the Missouri Valley with great fan bases, other schools have been mentioned as well. Even if it might be a slight decrease in splitting up the TV revenue, it adds in other areas. Nobody thinks adding a school like Illinois St would benefit NIU by giving them a rival? Or an east coach school to give Buffalo a rival? Which is something they both seem to lack in the MAC.
02-06-2020 09:24 AM
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Post: #100
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
There are 3 schools who improve the league aggregate:
- Marshall
- JMU
- NDSU (FB-only)

The MVC schools have a good basketball fan base. They don't improve the league in football success, football fan support, or football budget. That's what the MAC cares about. They are basketball-first schools who are in a league better suited for their goals.
02-06-2020 11:03 AM
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