Penny can coach fine... he just doesn’t have the talent to run the system he has promised recruits he would play.

(01-30-2020 06:33 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Penny can coach fine... he just doesn’t have the talent to run the system he has promised recruits he would play.

And never will unless he is coaching in the NBA...

(01-30-2020 06:18 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 10:32 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 09:58 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  Why people keep repeating the lie that our administration alone blocked LB from coming on staff is beyond me. It's simply not correct.

If you have factual evidence that it’s a lie, please provide such. Otherwise you’re just adding to the noise.

I was told by multiple sources that the AAC had to approve of him and he was blocked. Funny, I have never seen anyone show a link that says Bowen was the one that blocked the hire, yet no one claims that it is a lie?!!

To be fair, you didn’t provide a link either.

I think Penny is doing a fine job on the bench. I haven't agreed with every move, but you never will. Losing JW was a gut punch to him and the team, and forced Penny to adjust bigtime on the fly. There have been some speed bumps, but all things considered, I think he's done a nice job.

(01-30-2020 08:35 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 06:18 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 10:32 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 09:58 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  Why people keep repeating the lie that our administration alone blocked LB from coming on staff is beyond me. It's simply not correct.

If you have factual evidence that it’s a lie, please provide such. Otherwise you’re just adding to the noise.

I was told by multiple sources that the AAC had to approve of him and he was blocked. Funny, I have never seen anyone show a link that says Bowen was the one that blocked the hire, yet no one claims that it is a lie?!!

To be fair, you didn’t provide a link either.

So, according to you, neither side has... but you believe they are correct although they can't prove it. I will go by what I have heard because I have never seen anything stating differently other than what has been posted here.

(01-30-2020 07:41 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 06:33 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Penny can coach fine... he just doesn’t have the talent to run the system he has promised recruits he would play.

And never will unless he is coaching in the NBA...

He lands the class he hopes to land and we will be running it next year.

(01-30-2020 09:20 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 08:35 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 06:18 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 10:32 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 09:58 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  Why people keep repeating the lie that our administration alone blocked LB from coming on staff is beyond me. It's simply not correct.

If you have factual evidence that it’s a lie, please provide such. Otherwise you’re just adding to the noise.

I was told by multiple sources that the AAC had to approve of him and he was blocked. Funny, I have never seen anyone show a link that says Bowen was the one that blocked the hire, yet no one claims that it is a lie?!!

To be fair, you didn’t provide a link either.

So, according to you, neither side has... but you believe they are correct although they can't prove it. I will go by what I have heard because I have never seen anything stating differently other than what has been posted here.

Correct...no one has provided valid evidence. Just a lot of noise from a lot of different people. My opinion is no one knows what happened...just lot of hearsay and speculation.

(01-30-2020 09:35 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 09:20 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 08:35 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 06:18 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 10:32 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  If you have factual evidence that it’s a lie, please provide such. Otherwise you’re just adding to the noise.

I was told by multiple sources that the AAC had to approve of him and he was blocked. Funny, I have never seen anyone show a link that says Bowen was the one that blocked the hire, yet no one claims that it is a lie?!!

To be fair, you didn’t provide a link either.

So, according to you, neither side has... but you believe they are correct although they can't prove it. I will go by what I have heard because I have never seen anything stating differently other than what has been posted here.

Correct...no one has provided valid evidence. Just a lot of noise from a lot of different people. My opinion is no one knows what happened...just lot of hearsay and speculation.

I agree. My sources could be just as wrong, although one claims it came from someone on the staff and another is tied to administration.

With that said, I could've totally missed where it was revealed that Bowen blocked him and my sources just like to talk or hate SMU.

(01-30-2020 09:20 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 07:41 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 06:33 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Penny can coach fine... he just doesn’t have the talent to run the system he has promised recruits he would play.

And never will unless he is coaching in the NBA...

He lands the class he hopes to land and we will be running it next year.

Sure... But IMO we will always struggle to run it because you are only as strong as your weakest link. If we have 4 NBA players next year that still leaves us playing 5 guys every game that are not NBA level and will struggle running an NBA system.

(01-30-2020 09:20 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 08:35 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 06:18 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 10:32 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 09:58 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  Why people keep repeating the lie that our administration alone blocked LB from coming on staff is beyond me. It's simply not correct.

If you have factual evidence that it’s a lie, please provide such. Otherwise you’re just adding to the noise.

I was told by multiple sources that the AAC had to approve of him and he was blocked. Funny, I have never seen anyone show a link that says Bowen was the one that blocked the hire, yet no one claims that it is a lie?!!

To be fair, you didn’t provide a link either.

So, according to you, neither side has... but you believe they are correct although they can't prove it. I will go by what I have heard because I have never seen anything stating differently other than what has been posted here.

And all I ever heard was that the hire was blocked by the administration which I took for our schools administration. So we are both relying on what we heard. Perhaps you shouldn't have phrased it as repeating a lie? Perhaps the more tactful way would have been to suggest that what I heard was erroneous information? Either way the bottom line is that Penny was prohibited from hiring Brown, correct?

Penny showed a willingness to bring on someone with the exact qualifications I outlined, maybe because Brown is also a friend who has those qualifications, I don't know. But let's assume he is a friend he trusts, maybe that's why he didn't pursue a Brown like coach afterwards? I still say he would have benefited, and likely would still benefit, from having such a figure on staff but perhaps he doesn't know others with whom he shares such a bond and trusts to the same degree.

However, after the game at UCF, it appears he may be changing his approach a little and it appears to have made some difference. He certainly didn't sub as much as in previous games and there were few if any wholesale substitutions which has actually been my number 1 concern all year. Hell, Precious played 38 minutes and Boogie played 34. I don't think we've played a game yet where two starters had that many minutes.

(01-31-2020 08:26 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 09:20 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 08:35 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 06:18 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 10:32 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  If you have factual evidence that it’s a lie, please provide such. Otherwise you’re just adding to the noise.

I was told by multiple sources that the AAC had to approve of him and he was blocked. Funny, I have never seen anyone show a link that says Bowen was the one that blocked the hire, yet no one claims that it is a lie?!!

To be fair, you didn’t provide a link either.

So, according to you, neither side has... but you believe they are correct although they can't prove it. I will go by what I have heard because I have never seen anything stating differently other than what has been posted here.

And all I ever heard was that the hire was blocked by the administration which I took for our schools administration. So we are both relying on what we heard. Perhaps you shouldn't have phrased it as repeating a lie? Perhaps the more tactful way would have been to suggest that what I heard was erroneous information? Either way the bottom line is that Penny was prohibited from hiring Brown, correct?

Penny showed a willingness to bring on someone with the exact qualifications I outlined, maybe because Brown is also a friend who has those qualifications, I don't know. But let's assume he is a friend he trusts, maybe that's why he didn't pursue a Brown like coach afterwards? I still say he would have benefited, and likely would still benefit, from having such a figure on staff but perhaps he doesn't know others with whom he shares such a bond and trusts to the same degree.

However, after the game at UCF, it appears he may be changing his approach a little and it appears to have made some difference. He certainly didn't sub as much as in previous games and there were few if any wholesale substitutions which has actually been my number 1 concern all year. Hell, Precious played 38 minutes and Boogie played 34. I don't think we've played a game yet where two starters had that many minutes.

vs Georgia

(01-31-2020 08:37 AM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-31-2020 08:26 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 09:20 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 08:35 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 06:18 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  I was told by multiple sources that the AAC had to approve of him and he was blocked. Funny, I have never seen anyone show a link that says Bowen was the one that blocked the hire, yet no one claims that it is a lie?!!

To be fair, you didn’t provide a link either.

So, according to you, neither side has... but you believe they are correct although they can't prove it. I will go by what I have heard because I have never seen anything stating differently other than what has been posted here.

And all I ever heard was that the hire was blocked by the administration which I took for our schools administration. So we are both relying on what we heard. Perhaps you shouldn't have phrased it as repeating a lie? Perhaps the more tactful way would have been to suggest that what I heard was erroneous information? Either way the bottom line is that Penny was prohibited from hiring Brown, correct?

Penny showed a willingness to bring on someone with the exact qualifications I outlined, maybe because Brown is also a friend who has those qualifications, I don't know. But let's assume he is a friend he trusts, maybe that's why he didn't pursue a Brown like coach afterwards? I still say he would have benefited, and likely would still benefit, from having such a figure on staff but perhaps he doesn't know others with whom he shares such a bond and trusts to the same degree.

However, after the game at UCF, it appears he may be changing his approach a little and it appears to have made some difference. He certainly didn't sub as much as in previous games and there were few if any wholesale substitutions which has actually been my number 1 concern all year. Hell, Precious played 38 minutes and Boogie played 34. I don't think we've played a game yet where two starters had that many minutes.

vs Georgia

Ok, to rephrase, this is only the second game - of which I'm aware - where two starters yada yada yada. But you're right, Precious had 38 in that game also while LQ had 35 and Boogie had 32. I'd sure like to see LQ get his offensive game going again. I was trying to forget that debacle.

(01-31-2020 08:58 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-31-2020 08:37 AM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-31-2020 08:26 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 09:20 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 08:35 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  To be fair, you didn’t provide a link either.

So, according to you, neither side has... but you believe they are correct although they can't prove it. I will go by what I have heard because I have never seen anything stating differently other than what has been posted here.

And all I ever heard was that the hire was blocked by the administration which I took for our schools administration. So we are both relying on what we heard. Perhaps you shouldn't have phrased it as repeating a lie? Perhaps the more tactful way would have been to suggest that what I heard was erroneous information? Either way the bottom line is that Penny was prohibited from hiring Brown, correct?

Penny showed a willingness to bring on someone with the exact qualifications I outlined, maybe because Brown is also a friend who has those qualifications, I don't know. But let's assume he is a friend he trusts, maybe that's why he didn't pursue a Brown like coach afterwards? I still say he would have benefited, and likely would still benefit, from having such a figure on staff but perhaps he doesn't know others with whom he shares such a bond and trusts to the same degree.

However, after the game at UCF, it appears he may be changing his approach a little and it appears to have made some difference. He certainly didn't sub as much as in previous games and there were few if any wholesale substitutions which has actually been my number 1 concern all year. Hell, Precious played 38 minutes and Boogie played 34. I don't think we've played a game yet where two starters had that many minutes.

vs Georgia

Ok, to rephrase, this is only the second game - of which I'm aware - where two starters yada yada yada. But you're right, Precious had 38 in that game also while LQ had 35 and Boogie had 32. I'd sure like to see LQ get his offensive game going again. I was trying to forget that debacle.

Yeah. And I don't mention it JUST to be a total s***. Though I do sometimes indulge. I say it to point out that our players were worn down and became far less effective at the end of the game vs Georgia. Meaning, it might not be the best strategy at our pace of play. Just food for thought. I'm not dead set either way.

I actually like the way that Penny and staff gameplan. He doesn't use 1 philosophy at all times. More like Bill Billichick than Coach K. I love it.

(01-31-2020 09:38 AM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-31-2020 08:58 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-31-2020 08:37 AM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-31-2020 08:26 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 09:20 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  So, according to you, neither side has... but you believe they are correct although they can't prove it. I will go by what I have heard because I have never seen anything stating differently other than what has been posted here.

And all I ever heard was that the hire was blocked by the administration which I took for our schools administration. So we are both relying on what we heard. Perhaps you shouldn't have phrased it as repeating a lie? Perhaps the more tactful way would have been to suggest that what I heard was erroneous information? Either way the bottom line is that Penny was prohibited from hiring Brown, correct?

Penny showed a willingness to bring on someone with the exact qualifications I outlined, maybe because Brown is also a friend who has those qualifications, I don't know. But let's assume he is a friend he trusts, maybe that's why he didn't pursue a Brown like coach afterwards? I still say he would have benefited, and likely would still benefit, from having such a figure on staff but perhaps he doesn't know others with whom he shares such a bond and trusts to the same degree.

However, after the game at UCF, it appears he may be changing his approach a little and it appears to have made some difference. He certainly didn't sub as much as in previous games and there were few if any wholesale substitutions which has actually been my number 1 concern all year. Hell, Precious played 38 minutes and Boogie played 34. I don't think we've played a game yet where two starters had that many minutes.

vs Georgia

Ok, to rephrase, this is only the second game - of which I'm aware - where two starters yada yada yada. But you're right, Precious had 38 in that game also while LQ had 35 and Boogie had 32. I'd sure like to see LQ get his offensive game going again. I was trying to forget that debacle.

Yeah. And I don't mention it JUST to be a total s***. Though I do sometimes indulge. I say it to point out that our players were worn down and became far less effective at the end of the game vs Georgia. Meaning, it might not be the best strategy at our pace of play. Just food for thought. I'm not dead set either way.

I actually like the way that Penny and staff gameplan. He doesn't use 1 philosophy at all times. More like Bill Billichick than Coach K. I love it.

No worries, I didn't take it that way and I can see the value in not running down your starters but I would personally like to see the rotation shortened and letting the starters stay in the flow of the game for as long as possible, especially not sitting a hot hand down if he isn't in need of a blow.

(01-31-2020 07:53 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 09:20 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 07:41 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 06:33 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Penny can coach fine... he just doesn’t have the talent to run the system he has promised recruits he would play.

And never will unless he is coaching in the NBA...

He lands the class he hopes to land and we will be running it next year.

Sure... But IMO we will always struggle to run it because you are only as strong as your weakest link. If we have 4 NBA players next year that still leaves us playing 5 guys every game that are not NBA level and will struggle running an NBA system.

I just don't think we have enough experience to run Penny's style of play. Asking a group of 18 year olds to master this type of play is a bit much. I do think with a a group of seasoned upperclassmen this system would be quite effective.

(01-30-2020 08:44 PM)Hoots Wrote:  I think Penny is doing a fine job on the bench. I haven't agreed with every move, but you never will. Losing JW was a gut punch to him and the team, and forced Penny to adjust bigtime on the fly. There have been some speed bumps, but all things considered, I think he's done a nice job.

I also think we see the scouting that takes place during conference season. Teams don't play Alo for the jumper and they don't lose Tyler. Georgia played Alo with a larger guard and don't leave anyone else to force Alo to try to score against a larger guard. UCF left Lance wide open like teams leave Isaiah Maurice open. If they hit open shots, we win. If they don't we won't. Lance will battle for rebounds and is not soft inside so he has to play in front of IM. Teams also we not pick up Dandridge at the top of the High Low.

Teams have picked up tendencies so the coach and the players will have to adjust. That's why putting Boogie on the ball helps. He can get his own shot plus hit the jumper. In conference, teams will play off Baugh and Alo and they have to adjust to know what to do.

The offense we run generally will end up in an open shot. We just have to have the right people shooting that shot.

(01-31-2020 07:53 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 09:20 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 07:41 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 06:33 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Penny can coach fine... he just doesn’t have the talent to run the system he has promised recruits he would play.

And never will unless he is coaching in the NBA...

He lands the class he hopes to land and we will be running it next year.

Sure... But IMO we will always struggle to run it because you are only as strong as your weakest link. If we have 4 NBA players next year that still leaves us playing 5 guys every game that are not NBA level and will struggle running an NBA system.

If we had perimeter players who could get their own shot it would work...

You only need 1 Playmaker a couple of shooters (Don't have to be NBA Players) and a big who can score in traffic.

The system he is running requires the person with the ball to win off the dribble and everything else flows from that.

Lets say Lance, Lester and Boogie shoot above 37% from the 3 next year and you have a NBA ready guard with the ball and big who can score over his man (Precious struggles with this)...That would be killer.

You cant leave the perimeter, can't double the big and the lead guard is going to have the space to beat his man.

(01-31-2020 12:25 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-31-2020 07:53 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 09:20 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 07:41 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-30-2020 06:33 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Penny can coach fine... he just doesn’t have the talent to run the system he has promised recruits he would play.

And never will unless he is coaching in the NBA...

He lands the class he hopes to land and we will be running it next year.

Sure... But IMO we will always struggle to run it because you are only as strong as your weakest link. If we have 4 NBA players next year that still leaves us playing 5 guys every game that are not NBA level and will struggle running an NBA system.

If we had perimeter players who could get their own shot it would work...

You only need 1 Playmaker a couple of shooters (Don't have to be NBA Players) and a big who can score in traffic.

The system he is running requires the person with the ball to win off the dribble and everything else flows from that.

Lets say Lance, Lester and Boogie shoot above 37% from the 3 next year and you have a NBA ready guard with the ball and big who can score over his man (Precious struggles with this)...That would be killer.

You cant leave the perimeter, can't double the big and the lead guard is going to have the space to beat his man.

Most NBA offenses have no one who dribbles & dribbles the clock away like our small guards & just pass around the perimeter. NBA teams get shots by spreading the floor & passing the ball until the shooters get their shot or the slashers can get a path to the goal. Boogie is the only perimeter player who has shown quickness to be an effective slasher, as such he also gets respect by the D on the perimeter & can occasionally get his shot. As a slasher he sometimes gets to the basket but more often is able to find a perimeter shooter or a crashing big. DJ has some potential as a slasher, PA has shown he can do it & occasionally LQ & Baugh.

(01-29-2020 09:20 AM)mairving Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 08:50 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  IMO Penny needs a mentor who can develop him into the fine young HC he will one day become sooner rather than later.

Wasn't the same thing said about Pastner? If you have to hire someone to develop you as a coach you really shouldn't be a head coach.

Pastnerizing Penny is just a step or two away from Finching him. Everybody wanted Penny, knew what he brought, knew his level of experience, should have known it would take time for him to learn to coach like Larry Brown (or even Cal.)

On the other hand, this class was way above what most of us thought he could pull off in recruiting his first year. And he's already showing that he realizes some of his "desires" for an offensive or defensive strategy have to be tweaked to fit reality. I don't know what kind of coach he'll be in the long run, but if I gave Pastner four years, I'm definitely giving Penny more benefit of the doubt than that.

But I respect you, TigerBlue. That's what boards are for. And there are lots of things that have been said on this board that made more sense than what some of our coaches were doing on the floor.

(01-31-2020 07:18 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 09:20 AM)mairving Wrote:  

(01-29-2020 08:50 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  IMO Penny needs a mentor who can develop him into the fine young HC he will one day become sooner rather than later.

Wasn't the same thing said about Pastner? If you have to hire someone to develop you as a coach you really shouldn't be a head coach.

Pastnerizing Penny is just a step or two away from Finching him. Everybody wanted Penny, knew what he brought, knew his level of experience, should have known it would take time for him to learn to coach like Larry Brown (or even Cal.)

On the other hand, this class was way above what most of us thought he could pull off in recruiting his first year. And he's already showing that he realizes some of his "desires" for an offensive or defensive strategy have to be tweaked to fit reality. I don't know what kind of coach he'll be in the long run, but if I gave Pastner four years, I'm definitely giving Penny more benefit of the doubt than that.

But I respect you, TigerBlue. That's what boards are for. And there are lots of things that have been said on this board that made more sense than what some of our coaches were doing on the floor.

Wow! Very well said bro. And i agree 10000% +3