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[split] Football independence?
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #21
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 12:20 PM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 10:00 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 10:58 PM)46566 Wrote:  Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?

(01-06-2020 11:33 PM)46566 Wrote:  I'd figure that any game not on ESPN,2,U would be put on the Longhorn network instead of ESPN plus. The main question is would this help the Southland? For football I could see games against Baylor, TCU, tech, SMU and maybe A&M yearly. Maybe a FCS Southland game as a thanks for the help in Olympic sports. I'd figure Oklahoma would be a yearly game. That's 7 games a year not counting the smaller Texas schools in FBS. They could have deals with the Texas bowls.

The Southland?

I only chose the Southland as I didn't think the Big 12 wanted a non football Texas in the conference. It would give them a conference primarily in Texas and Louisiana. The mountain west conference would work also.

The ACC and the PAC would both trip all over themselves to give UT the Notre Dame deal, and if UT for some reason wanted a truly unencumbered football program the Big East would eventually shrug and offer the Longhorns spot #12. That's without getting into the B1G or SEC.
01-07-2020 01:06 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #22
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-06-2020 06:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:56 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:40 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:08 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If this pans out for UConn, we might enter a post-conference era where we have 20 or more independents. There isn't enough money at the G5 level to justify conference affiliation unless you really feel at home in your conference.

Eh, I don't think it'll be some huge exodus because the flip side is that you need somewhere to actually go to. The MAC is compact and coherent enough to be protected from any of this sort of realignment, and the MW is the only game in town out west outside of the PAC, so unless Boise wants to try to load up on PAC/B12 schools BYU-style I don't see anyone coming out of there. The AAC has established itself well enough I don't see anyone jumping ship for a non-football conference that isn't the Big East, and that door's closed. You're basically looking at schools on the fringes of CUSA or the SB. Could ODU and/or Charlotte cast eyes at the A10? Maybe, but that's about it.

If there's growth in the number of independents, I think it comes from a single-digit number of FCS schools.

Agreed. You still need a place to park your olympic sports and not many schools have that readily available.

ODU and Charlotte back to the A10 with football as an independent is more viable than it was 5 years ago, but would either school benefit much from doing so?

What other schools would beneift from football independence?

It would be nice if independence became a viable option again, but I doubt many use it

Going independent is easier said than done. That being said, it's not completely out of the question provided that there's a solid place for basketball and Olympic sports.

The schools that would benefit the most (at least in theory) from football independence would fit the profile of BYU or UConn: schools that legitimately believe that they are Power 5 schools, but are resigned to the fact that they are shut out of that club for reasons beyond their control. As a result, they could seek independence as a way to distinguish themselves from the "structural ghetto" of the G5. Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Boise State, and San Diego State come to mind as potentially fitting that profile (essentially the top AAC and MWC schools). Navy showed that it could work as an independent in the past and Army continues to be an independent today, so Air Force could probably do so, as well. The G5 label definitely bothers the schools that feel (whether justified or not) THISCLOSE to P5 status but can never get past the glass ceiling. So, independence is way to create a different label and narrative - that's certainly why a school like BYU will stay independent no matter how much money a G5 league might offer them.

Of course, BYU has the backing of the LDS Church and UConn is putting its other sports in the Big East where they'd be receiving a P5-level of revenue for basketball, so one has to look at the totality of the impact on the entire athletic department. Not very many schools have that extraneous support (either via religious backing or, in the case of the service academies, the federal government) or connection to a non-football league as financially and competitively strong as the Big East (where UConn was a unique fit due to history).

Are any of the top AAC schools better off being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from, say, the Atlantic 10? Similarly, are any of the top MWC schools better of being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from the WCC or other western leagues? Probably not as of now, although the G5 label is one that a lot of schools want to shake (see the AAC's "P6" campaign).

We'll also have to see whether the G5 receive an auto-bid for its top champ in an expanded 8-team CFP. That would certainly lessen the desire for the top G5 teams to go independent in that scenario.

And therein lies the rub with independence.

Most of the schools who could be independent are in the same conference. Navy, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Houston. If that's who you're going to play anyways, then why not stick together and gain more negotiating leverage in media deals?
01-07-2020 01:09 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #23
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 01:09 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 06:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:56 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:40 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:08 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If this pans out for UConn, we might enter a post-conference era where we have 20 or more independents. There isn't enough money at the G5 level to justify conference affiliation unless you really feel at home in your conference.

Eh, I don't think it'll be some huge exodus because the flip side is that you need somewhere to actually go to. The MAC is compact and coherent enough to be protected from any of this sort of realignment, and the MW is the only game in town out west outside of the PAC, so unless Boise wants to try to load up on PAC/B12 schools BYU-style I don't see anyone coming out of there. The AAC has established itself well enough I don't see anyone jumping ship for a non-football conference that isn't the Big East, and that door's closed. You're basically looking at schools on the fringes of CUSA or the SB. Could ODU and/or Charlotte cast eyes at the A10? Maybe, but that's about it.

If there's growth in the number of independents, I think it comes from a single-digit number of FCS schools.

Agreed. You still need a place to park your olympic sports and not many schools have that readily available.

ODU and Charlotte back to the A10 with football as an independent is more viable than it was 5 years ago, but would either school benefit much from doing so?

What other schools would beneift from football independence?

It would be nice if independence became a viable option again, but I doubt many use it

Going independent is easier said than done. That being said, it's not completely out of the question provided that there's a solid place for basketball and Olympic sports.

The schools that would benefit the most (at least in theory) from football independence would fit the profile of BYU or UConn: schools that legitimately believe that they are Power 5 schools, but are resigned to the fact that they are shut out of that club for reasons beyond their control. As a result, they could seek independence as a way to distinguish themselves from the "structural ghetto" of the G5. Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Boise State, and San Diego State come to mind as potentially fitting that profile (essentially the top AAC and MWC schools). Navy showed that it could work as an independent in the past and Army continues to be an independent today, so Air Force could probably do so, as well. The G5 label definitely bothers the schools that feel (whether justified or not) THISCLOSE to P5 status but can never get past the glass ceiling. So, independence is way to create a different label and narrative - that's certainly why a school like BYU will stay independent no matter how much money a G5 league might offer them.

Of course, BYU has the backing of the LDS Church and UConn is putting its other sports in the Big East where they'd be receiving a P5-level of revenue for basketball, so one has to look at the totality of the impact on the entire athletic department. Not very many schools have that extraneous support (either via religious backing or, in the case of the service academies, the federal government) or connection to a non-football league as financially and competitively strong as the Big East (where UConn was a unique fit due to history).

Are any of the top AAC schools better off being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from, say, the Atlantic 10? Similarly, are any of the top MWC schools better of being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from the WCC or other western leagues? Probably not as of now, although the G5 label is one that a lot of schools want to shake (see the AAC's "P6" campaign).

We'll also have to see whether the G5 receive an auto-bid for its top champ in an expanded 8-team CFP. That would certainly lessen the desire for the top G5 teams to go independent in that scenario.

And therein lies the rub with independence.

Most of the schools who could be independent are in the same conference. Navy, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Houston. If that's who you're going to play anyways, then why not stick together and gain more negotiating leverage in media deals?

Perhaps people within those schools don't consider the others true equals. If Houston sees itself as a Big 12/Pac 12-quality school, it may not afford the same status to Cincinnati, UCF, or the other G5 schools with whom they're yoked. Independent status gives you the opportunity to reframe the discussion in such a way that you can cast yourself as, if not a literal P5 member, then one that's closer to that plane than it is the G5. The thinking there: If BYU can do it ...
01-07-2020 01:14 PM
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Post: #24
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
I don't see a scenario where an American or Mountain West school would go Independent.

UConn is Basketball, and they had the opportunity to join essentially a "P5" basketball conference in the Big East. For schools in the American and Mountain West, they are already in the highest Basketball conference that is not P5 and any non-P5 membership option means downgrading your basketball.

BYU's move looks to have been a bit of a downgrade, as besides Gonzaga (which in effect is a Big East school unfortunately located 1400 miles too far West) the league plays in glorified high school gyms. BYU consoles itself with the religious association, and has been able to set up a pseudo P5 football schedule in most years, much higher SoS than other G5 schools. But it's not a path open to other schools.

For San Diego State only membership in a true power conference would be acceptable, as a Big West membership is death to the Basketball program (look at how UC Santa Barbara with plenty of financial resources to tap has dropped from high mid-majors often hovering around top 25 rankings in the 90's to well below the top 150 programs today). Boise State the same, although they are more a football school. There simply are no good Olympic sports options in the West, which effectively kills the option. (Long run Colorado State is likely to join that western list, and one does have to keep an eye on UNLV to see if they ever develop into anything athletically or academic)

Hawaii is a possibility posters bring up -given they already are in a separate Olympic conference-, but the willingness of power programs to visit the Islands has waned so much that they need the MWC. If they dropped out even the MWC schools would mostly drop them from the schedule, given how much of a hassle they are to visit.

For schools in the American I would add Memphis to the list Frank the Tank gave. Their academic index is so dreadful they failed to get a Rose in the B12 search, and Carnegie dropped them a category (same for East Carolina). Central Florida might be the next school to get to that point as well. But after the P5 and the Big East, the American is the strongest Basketball conference, seemingly locked into 3 bids. Losing UConn, doesn't help, but Wichita State gave them instant depth alongside Cincy, Houston and Memphis, plus sometimes strong SMU and Temple. There is no place to park your Olympics that comes close, unless maybe the A10 accepts you. And the Football contract is probably as good as they can expect. So it would be a risky proposition.

For these reasons the top schools will remain in the twilight zone of very high non-power for the foreseeable future.

If any shakeup comes, it will be from schools leaving the Big 12, leading the remnasts to pick up the strongest G5 schools to move into a slightly higher twilight zone on the edge of "P4" status.

Note: Frank makes a good point about a G5 access to an 8 team playoff, as that would take the sting out of being G5 for the highest teams there -- I think you'd see 3 or 4 MWC schools invest heavily in their programs if that option came open (not just Boise State).
01-07-2020 02:13 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #25
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
Wait... did Frank just call Cincinnati a G5 ghetto school?
01-07-2020 02:31 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #26
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
I don’t see why a single G5 deserves an auto-bid in the eyes of the P5. If the P5 creates the playoff, they don’t need to make any concessions because it’s an invitational. There has been a clear sub-division between the P5 and the G5 in FBS.

Quo made an excellent point, why should UCF with an easier schedule have more of a playoff opportunity than Florida, with an SEC schedule?

The most likely thing I see happening is a clause where a G5 champ is higher ranked than a P5 champ and “steals” the bid.

I’m all for an NCAA sanctioned FBS playoff—one thing the NCAA is good for is determining champions—I just find it highly unlikely at this point. They needed to get it done in the 80’s and failed.
01-07-2020 02:44 PM
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Post: #27
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 02:44 PM)esayem Wrote:  I don’t see why a single G5 deserves an auto-bid in the eyes of the P5. If the P5 creates the playoff, they don’t need to make any concessions because it’s an invitational. There has been a clear sub-division between the P5 and the G5 in FBS.

Quo made an excellent point, why should UCF with an easier schedule have more of a playoff opportunity than Florida, with an SEC schedule?

The most likely thing I see happening is a clause where a G5 champ is higher ranked than a P5 champ and “steals” the bid.

I’m all for an NCAA sanctioned FBS playoff—one thing the NCAA is good for is determining champions—I just find it highly unlikely at this point. They needed to get it done in the 80’s and failed.

That's why you have playoffs, so you can see who is actually better. If UCF is winning by 30+ points against the weaker schedule, and Florida is winning by 3 points against the stronger schedule, it is often not clear who is better.
01-07-2020 02:54 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #28
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 02:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Wait... did Frank just call Cincinnati a G5 ghetto school?

No, not at all. The "structural ghetto" that I referred to is the G5 system and the glass ceiling that is in place between the P5 and G5. I would put Cincinnati in the category of having the resources and branding to get out of there as an independent if it truly wanted to do so (however unlikely that it might be).
01-07-2020 03:10 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #29
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 02:44 PM)esayem Wrote:  I don’t see why a single G5 deserves an auto-bid in the eyes of the P5. If the P5 creates the playoff, they don’t need to make any concessions because it’s an invitational. There has been a clear sub-division between the P5 and the G5 in FBS.

Quo made an excellent point, why should UCF with an easier schedule have more of a playoff opportunity than Florida, with an SEC schedule?

The most likely thing I see happening is a clause where a G5 champ is higher ranked than a P5 champ and “steals” the bid.

I’m all for an NCAA sanctioned FBS playoff—one thing the NCAA is good for is determining champions—I just find it highly unlikely at this point. They needed to get it done in the 80’s and failed.

There are all sorts of negative things you can say about the NCAA, but FCS clearly has the superior postseason. The bowl system is the participation trophy of college sports.
01-07-2020 04:08 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #30
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 02:44 PM)esayem Wrote:  I don’t see why a single G5 deserves an auto-bid in the eyes of the P5. If the P5 creates the playoff, they don’t need to make any concessions because it’s an invitational. There has been a clear sub-division between the P5 and the G5 in FBS.

Quo made an excellent point, why should UCF with an easier schedule have more of a playoff opportunity than Florida, with an SEC schedule?

The most likely thing I see happening is a clause where a G5 champ is higher ranked than a P5 champ and “steals” the bid.

I’m all for an NCAA sanctioned FBS playoff—one thing the NCAA is good for is determining champions—I just find it highly unlikely at this point. They needed to get it done in the 80’s and failed.



True, esayem, the P5 leagues would not think the G5 "deserves" a spot in an eight-team playoff. If one were offered it would 1. have to be earned, say, with 12 wins minimum and a top 15 finish (if no G5 team qualifies, no team goes) and 2. be due to pressure from fans, politicians and other entities that have a stake in seeing as much "inclusiveness" in the playoff as possible. It's the same basic concept as the "best" G5 team going to a NY6 bowl each year. The P5 doesn't accept it because it "likes" the arrangement. It accepts it because it "has to play nice" and views the arrangement as the lesser of two evils.

Now, if we get a six-team playoff, there will be no chance of a G5 inclusion.
01-07-2020 04:39 PM
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domer1978 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 04:39 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 02:44 PM)esayem Wrote:  I don’t see why a single G5 deserves an auto-bid in the eyes of the P5. If the P5 creates the playoff, they don’t need to make any concessions because it’s an invitational. There has been a clear sub-division between the P5 and the G5 in FBS.

Quo made an excellent point, why should UCF with an easier schedule have more of a playoff opportunity than Florida, with an SEC schedule?

The most likely thing I see happening is a clause where a G5 champ is higher ranked than a P5 champ and “steals” the bid.

I’m all for an NCAA sanctioned FBS playoff—one thing the NCAA is good for is determining champions—I just find it highly unlikely at this point. They needed to get it done in the 80’s and failed.



True, esayem, the P5 leagues would not think the G5 "deserves" a spot in an eight-team playoff. If one were offered it would 1. have to be earned, say, with 12 wins minimum and a top 15 finish (if no G5 team qualifies, no team goes) and 2. be due to pressure from fans, politicians and other entities that have a stake in seeing as much "inclusiveness" in the playoff as possible. It's the same basic concept as the "best" G5 team going to a NY6 bowl each year. The P5 doesn't accept it because it "likes" the arrangement. It accepts it because it "has to play nice" and views the arrangement as the lesser of two evils.

Now, if we get a six-team playoff, there will be no chance of a G5 inclusion.

I like the 6 team set up if we must expand the playoff. 5 Auto Bids for the P-5 and one wildcard.
01-07-2020 04:42 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #32
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 02:13 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't see a scenario where an American or Mountain West school would go Independent.

UConn is Basketball, and they had the opportunity to join essentially a "P5" basketball conference in the Big East. For schools in the American and Mountain West, they are already in the highest Basketball conference that is not P5 and any non-P5 membership option means downgrading your basketball.

BYU's move looks to have been a bit of a downgrade, as besides Gonzaga (which in effect is a Big East school unfortunately located 1400 miles too far West) the league plays in glorified high school gyms. BYU consoles itself with the religious association, and has been able to set up a pseudo P5 football schedule in most years, much higher SoS than other G5 schools. But it's not a path open to other schools.

For San Diego State only membership in a true power conference would be acceptable, as a Big West membership is death to the Basketball program (look at how UC Santa Barbara with plenty of financial resources to tap has dropped from high mid-majors often hovering around top 25 rankings in the 90's to well below the top 150 programs today). Boise State the same, although they are more a football school. There simply are no good Olympic sports options in the West, which effectively kills the option. (Long run Colorado State is likely to join that western list, and one does have to keep an eye on UNLV to see if they ever develop into anything athletically or academic)

Hawaii is a possibility posters bring up -given they already are in a separate Olympic conference-, but the willingness of power programs to visit the Islands has waned so much that they need the MWC. If they dropped out even the MWC schools would mostly drop them from the schedule, given how much of a hassle they are to visit.

For schools in the American I would add Memphis to the list Frank the Tank gave. Their academic index is so dreadful they failed to get a Rose in the B12 search, and Carnegie dropped them a category (same for East Carolina). Central Florida might be the next school to get to that point as well. But after the P5 and the Big East, the American is the strongest Basketball conference, seemingly locked into 3 bids. Losing UConn, doesn't help, but Wichita State gave them instant depth alongside Cincy, Houston and Memphis, plus sometimes strong SMU and Temple. There is no place to park your Olympics that comes close, unless maybe the A10 accepts you. And the Football contract is probably as good as they can expect. So it would be a risky proposition.

For these reasons the top schools will remain in the twilight zone of very high non-power for the foreseeable future.

If any shakeup comes, it will be from schools leaving the Big 12, leading the remnasts to pick up the strongest G5 schools to move into a slightly higher twilight zone on the edge of "P4" status.

Note: Frank makes a good point about a G5 access to an 8 team playoff, as that would take the sting out of being G5 for the highest teams there -- I think you'd see 3 or 4 MWC schools invest heavily in their programs if that option came open (not just Boise State).


As a fan of Memphis and Cincinnati, I struggle to see a scenario in which football independence would make sense.

Now IF the American imploded and Memphis and Cincy had numerous scheduling opportunities in football AND could be members of a Olympic sports conference with, say, Houston, Temple, Wichita and SMU, along with the "best of" the A10 (say, Saint Louis, Dayton, VCU, UMass, Richmond, Duquesne, Rhode Island, George Washington and Davidson) ... that would be an appealing scenario in some respects.
01-07-2020 04:49 PM
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Post: #33
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 04:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 02:13 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't see a scenario where an American or Mountain West school would go Independent.

UConn is Basketball, and they had the opportunity to join essentially a "P5" basketball conference in the Big East. For schools in the American and Mountain West, they are already in the highest Basketball conference that is not P5 and any non-P5 membership option means downgrading your basketball.

BYU's move looks to have been a bit of a downgrade, as besides Gonzaga (which in effect is a Big East school unfortunately located 1400 miles too far West) the league plays in glorified high school gyms. BYU consoles itself with the religious association, and has been able to set up a pseudo P5 football schedule in most years, much higher SoS than other G5 schools. But it's not a path open to other schools.

For San Diego State only membership in a true power conference would be acceptable, as a Big West membership is death to the Basketball program (look at how UC Santa Barbara with plenty of financial resources to tap has dropped from high mid-majors often hovering around top 25 rankings in the 90's to well below the top 150 programs today). Boise State the same, although they are more a football school. There simply are no good Olympic sports options in the West, which effectively kills the option. (Long run Colorado State is likely to join that western list, and one does have to keep an eye on UNLV to see if they ever develop into anything athletically or academic)

Hawaii is a possibility posters bring up -given they already are in a separate Olympic conference-, but the willingness of power programs to visit the Islands has waned so much that they need the MWC. If they dropped out even the MWC schools would mostly drop them from the schedule, given how much of a hassle they are to visit.

For schools in the American I would add Memphis to the list Frank the Tank gave. Their academic index is so dreadful they failed to get a Rose in the B12 search, and Carnegie dropped them a category (same for East Carolina). Central Florida might be the next school to get to that point as well. But after the P5 and the Big East, the American is the strongest Basketball conference, seemingly locked into 3 bids. Losing UConn, doesn't help, but Wichita State gave them instant depth alongside Cincy, Houston and Memphis, plus sometimes strong SMU and Temple. There is no place to park your Olympics that comes close, unless maybe the A10 accepts you. And the Football contract is probably as good as they can expect. So it would be a risky proposition.

For these reasons the top schools will remain in the twilight zone of very high non-power for the foreseeable future.

If any shakeup comes, it will be from schools leaving the Big 12, leading the remnasts to pick up the strongest G5 schools to move into a slightly higher twilight zone on the edge of "P4" status.

Note: Frank makes a good point about a G5 access to an 8 team playoff, as that would take the sting out of being G5 for the highest teams there -- I think you'd see 3 or 4 MWC schools invest heavily in their programs if that option came open (not just Boise State).


As a fan of Memphis and Cincinnati, I struggle to see a scenario in which football independence would make sense.

Now IF the American imploded and Memphis and Cincy had numerous scheduling opportunities in football AND could be members of a Olympic sports conference with, say, Houston, Temple, Wichita and SMU, along with the "best of" the A10 (say, Saint Louis, Dayton, VCU, UMass, Richmond, Duquesne, Rhode Island, George Washington and Davidson) ... that would be an appealing scenario in some respects.

With UCF, I don't see it either. If that was the case, the school would still be playing its basketball games in a glorified high school gym.
01-08-2020 01:07 PM
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panite Offline
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Post: #34
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 10:00 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 10:58 PM)46566 Wrote:  Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?

(01-06-2020 11:33 PM)46566 Wrote:  I'd figure that any game not on ESPN,2,U would be put on the Longhorn network instead of ESPN plus. The main question is would this help the Southland? For football I could see games against Baylor, TCU, tech, SMU and maybe A&M yearly. Maybe a FCS Southland game as a thanks for the help in Olympic sports. I'd figure Oklahoma would be a yearly game. That's 7 games a year not counting the smaller Texas schools in FBS. They could have deals with the Texas bowls.

The Southland?

I laughed too. 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao
01-08-2020 01:45 PM
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panite Offline
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Post: #35
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 12:20 PM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 10:00 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 10:58 PM)46566 Wrote:  Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?

(01-06-2020 11:33 PM)46566 Wrote:  I'd figure that any game not on ESPN,2,U would be put on the Longhorn network instead of ESPN plus. The main question is would this help the Southland? For football I could see games against Baylor, TCU, tech, SMU and maybe A&M yearly. Maybe a FCS Southland game as a thanks for the help in Olympic sports. I'd figure Oklahoma would be a yearly game. That's 7 games a year not counting the smaller Texas schools in FBS. They could have deals with the Texas bowls.

The Southland?

I only chose the Southland as I didn't think the Big 12 wanted a non football Texas in the conference. It would give them a conference primarily in Texas and Louisiana. The mountain west conference would work also.

Texas - MWC - 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao
01-08-2020 01:47 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #36
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-08-2020 01:47 PM)panite Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 12:20 PM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 10:00 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 10:58 PM)46566 Wrote:  Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?

(01-06-2020 11:33 PM)46566 Wrote:  I'd figure that any game not on ESPN,2,U would be put on the Longhorn network instead of ESPN plus. The main question is would this help the Southland? For football I could see games against Baylor, TCU, tech, SMU and maybe A&M yearly. Maybe a FCS Southland game as a thanks for the help in Olympic sports. I'd figure Oklahoma would be a yearly game. That's 7 games a year not counting the smaller Texas schools in FBS. They could have deals with the Texas bowls.

The Southland?

I only chose the Southland as I didn't think the Big 12 wanted a non football Texas in the conference. It would give them a conference primarily in Texas and Louisiana. The mountain west conference would work also.

Texas - MWC - 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao
At worst, Texas would be a non football member of the American. They would be like Notre Dame was in the Big East rather than ND's five game minimum number of ACC games; Texas would be able to schedule zero American games if they so chose.

Anyway, it's a moot point. Texas isn't going independent.
01-08-2020 02:13 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #37
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-08-2020 02:13 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-08-2020 01:47 PM)panite Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 12:20 PM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 10:00 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 10:58 PM)46566 Wrote:  Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?

(01-06-2020 11:33 PM)46566 Wrote:  I'd figure that any game not on ESPN,2,U would be put on the Longhorn network instead of ESPN plus. The main question is would this help the Southland? For football I could see games against Baylor, TCU, tech, SMU and maybe A&M yearly. Maybe a FCS Southland game as a thanks for the help in Olympic sports. I'd figure Oklahoma would be a yearly game. That's 7 games a year not counting the smaller Texas schools in FBS. They could have deals with the Texas bowls.

The Southland?

I only chose the Southland as I didn't think the Big 12 wanted a non football Texas in the conference. It would give them a conference primarily in Texas and Louisiana. The mountain west conference would work also.

Texas - MWC - 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao
At worst, Texas would be a non football member of the American. They would be like Notre Dame was in the Big East rather than ND's five game minimum number of ACC games; Texas would be able to schedule zero American games if they so chose.

Anyway, it's a moot point. Texas isn't going independent.

Texas in the same conference with Houston? That will not happen again. Texas likes the Big XII because they can call the shots which is something they’ll be unable to do in another power conference. Their arrogance won’t let them downgrade to the AAC no matter how many incentives they throw at the Longhorns. They won’t allow their basketball and Olympic sports which is something they value to places/schools they consider beneath them.

Also if you’re Oklahoma, good luck in ever making the CFP in the SEC or B1G. They’ll become another Arkansas and Nebraska or at best, a Texas A&M which is not saying much considering the Aggies will never be any better than 4th place in its own division.
01-08-2020 07:32 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #38
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-08-2020 03:59 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(01-08-2020 02:14 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  What is UConn's TV arrangement for home football games this fall? SNY? FS1? CBSSN? How much money?

Not announced yet, SNY said they'd bid on the package when it comes available. My guess is still that Fox buys the games for a relatively nominal amount, keeps one or two a year, and bundles the rest with like half the women's schedule and one or two leftover men's games to SNY for what they paid for football to begin with.

I’ve seen some Big East games on FOX and FS1 and they really do a good job. It’s a nice break from ESPN which is always pimping the SEC.
01-08-2020 07:33 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #39
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 02:44 PM)esayem Wrote:  I don't see why a single G5 deserves an auto-bid in the eyes of the P5. If the P5 creates the playoff, they don’t need to make any concessions because it’s an invitational. ...

The question isn't whether any Go5 deserves it but whether there is a risk of successful anti-trust lawsuits against the arrangement.

Being an invitational doesn't guarantee that it's not restraint of trade ... plenty of the original trusts that were made illegal in the early 1900's were created on an invitational basis.

But a 5-2-1, with the "1" going to the highest ranking among the Go5 champions or independents, seems like it would surmount that, and the media bidders would prefer that to a Go5 spot.

Now, while anti-trust is kind of "in my field", I ain't no damn lawyer (IANDL), so if you want to get into an argument with legal sources who claim there's an issue, go ahead ...
... but ultimately it's a judge that needs to be convinced (and typically at least two, sometimes two and one or more panels of multiple judges, given the appeals process), so if there are some actual lawyers who claim there might be an issue, I'm just leaving it at "there might be an issue", no matter who strong the arguments either way in front of the jury of CSNBBS commentators might be.

The CFP negotiators certainly acted as if they thought there was something of an issue when they granted the Access Bowl spot.

_____________________________________
(01-08-2020 02:13 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  At worst, Texas would be a non football member of the American. They would be like Notre Dame was in the Big East rather than ND's five game minimum number of ACC games; Texas would be able to schedule zero American games if they so chose.

Anyway, it's a moot point. Texas isn't going independent.

Exactly.

If Texas prefers Conference "A" over the Big 12, then Texas's Plan A is Conference A, plan B is the Big 12. If Texas prefers all four other conferences over the Big12, then that is Plan A through Plan D, and Plan E is the Big 12.

There's no scenario in which a school that literally has the pick of the P5 conferences it wants to join has to drop down to "at worst". Remember, the constraint on which conference Texas joined has been how many buddies it got to take along! Other schools don't get to dictate terms like that.

If they had applied to the PAC to just join the PAC and let the PAC decide who else to invite, I'm guessing we'd be seeing Texas and Colorado in the PAC today.

Texas would only be going independent because in their view it's the best option for Texas. And obviously Olympic sports in the American, MWC or Southland would not be part of the "best option for Texas".
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2020 11:58 PM by BruceMcF.)
01-08-2020 11:36 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #40
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-08-2020 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 02:44 PM)esayem Wrote:  I don't see why a single G5 deserves an auto-bid in the eyes of the P5. If the P5 creates the playoff, they don’t need to make any concessions because it’s an invitational. ...

The question isn't whether any Go5 deserves it but whether there is a risk of successful anti-trust lawsuits against the arrangement.

Being an invitational doesn't guarantee that it's not restraint of trade ... plenty of the original trusts that were made illegal in the early 1900's were created on an invitational basis.

But a 5-2-1, with the "1" going to the highest ranking among the Go5 champions or independents, seems like it would surmount that, and the media bidders would prefer that to a Go5 spot.

Didn’t the BCS only get the threat of anti-trust when they were leaving out teams that were ranked high enough, but passed over?

So with three wildcards, the G5 and Independent teams theoretically have a chance. Exhibit A: Notre Dame.

I seem to remember FSU and Miami (later Louisville under Howard S.) scheduling anybody, anywhere, in order to prove themselves.
01-09-2020 08:17 AM
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