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NFL should expand by 8 teams
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FloridaJag Offline
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Exclamation NFL should expand by 8 teams
If the NFL goes to 18 game seasons, it should also expand to 40 teams.

The cities to be added are:

Memphis
Orlando
Portland
Sacramento

San Diego
San Antonio
St. Louis
Toronto

The conferences should be arranged as:

NFC East

Dallas Cowboys
New York Giants
Philadelphia Eagles
Washington Redskins
St. Louis

NFC North

Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Minnesota Vikings
Portland

NFC South

Atlanta Falcons
Carolina Panthers
Memphis
New Orleans Saints
Tampa Bay Buccaneers

NFC West

Arizona Cardinals
Los Angeles Rams
San Francisco 49ers
Seattle Seahawks
Sacramento


AFC East

Buffalo Bills
Miami Dolphins
New England Patriots
New York Jets
Toronto

AFC North

Baltimore Ravens
Cleveland Browns
Cincinnati Bengals
Pittsburgh Steelers
Indianapolis Colts

AFC South

Houston Texans
Jacksonville Jaguars
Orlando
San Antonio

Tennessee Titans

AFC West

Denver Broncos
Los Angeles Chargers
Las Vegas Raiders
Kansas City Chiefs
San Diego
12-27-2019 02:21 PM
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vandiver49 Online
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RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
Negative ghost rider. Have you seen the terrible backup QB play this year? That is a choke point that can’t be over come

Edit: At most you could expand by 4 teams but some of your locations are non-starters:

Memphis - Regionally constrained between STL and TENN
Orlando - Florida needs another team like someone needs a hole in their head
Portland - Small but possible
Sacramento - No will to build a stadium

San Diego - Possible but fanbase has soured on the NFL; no will to build new stadium
San Antonio - DAL and HOU would definitely block
St. Louis - Viable but fanbase has soured on the NFL
Toronto - Viable but would marginalize CFL team
(This post was last modified: 12-27-2019 07:04 PM by vandiver49.)
12-27-2019 05:22 PM
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BePcr07 Online
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RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
I’ve generally been on the pro-expansion bandwagon but I agree with vandiver that the talent pool just isn’t there at the moment. I’m more on the “beneficial relocation” team.
12-28-2019 01:23 AM
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DawgNBama Offline
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RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
Actually, I agree that the NFL should expand; just not with some of those locations. I was actually thinking about London, Frankfurt, Berlin, and Rhein
12-28-2019 11:09 AM
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vandiver49 Online
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RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-28-2019 11:09 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Actually, I agree that the NFL should expand; just not with some of those locations. I was actually thinking about London, Frankfurt, Berlin, and Rhein

If there was a bunch of European talent that could be augmented by 10% of players from the states then maybe that could work. I just don’t think there are 240 US born players that are willing to live overseas for 5 months a year.
12-28-2019 02:11 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #6
RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-27-2019 05:22 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Negative ghost rider. Have you seen the terrible backup QB play this year? That is a choke point that can’t be over come

Edit: At most you could expand by 4 teams but some of your locations are non-starters:

Memphis - Regionally constrained between STL and TENN
Orlando - Florida needs another team like someone needs a hole in their head
Portland - Small but possible
Sacramento - No will to build a stadium

San Diego - Possible but fanbase has soured on the NFL; no will to build new stadium
San Antonio - DAL and HOU would definitely block
St. Louis - Viable but fanbase has soured on the NFL
Toronto - Viable but would marginalize CFL team

Is it politically possible to build a new NFL stadium in any of these places?

Las Vegas set the floor for a new local "public contribution" at $750 million. Can any of these places shake down their own populace for that much money or more?

BTW, I drove past the new Raiders stadium the other day while passing through Vegas. It looks absolutely massive from the freeway. It also looks not close enough to being finished to be ready for the first week in September, but looking out the car window is obviously not a thorough assessment.
12-28-2019 07:26 PM
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vandiver49 Online
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Post: #7
RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-28-2019 07:26 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 05:22 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Negative ghost rider. Have you seen the terrible backup QB play this year? That is a choke point that can’t be over come

Edit: At most you could expand by 4 teams but some of your locations are non-starters:

Memphis - Regionally constrained between STL and TENN
Orlando - Florida needs another team like someone needs a hole in their head
Portland - Small but possible
Sacramento - No will to build a stadium

San Diego - Possible but fanbase has soured on the NFL; no will to build new stadium
San Antonio - DAL and HOU would definitely block
St. Louis - Viable but fanbase has soured on the NFL
Toronto - Viable but would marginalize CFL team

Is it politically possible to build a new NFL stadium in any of these places?

Las Vegas set the floor for a new local "public contribution" at $750 million. Can any of these places shake down their own populace for that much money or more?

BTW, I drove past the new Raiders stadium the other day while passing through Vegas. It looks absolutely massive from the freeway. It also looks not close enough to being finished to be ready for the first week in September, but looking out the car window is obviously not a thorough assessment.

I think STL and San Antonio would be able to secure public funding for new stadiums. I think the other locations wouldn’t be able to pull it off. That said MEM would probably be owned by FedEx’s owner and he could bankroll a stadium by himself.
12-28-2019 10:05 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-28-2019 10:05 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(12-28-2019 07:26 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 05:22 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Negative ghost rider. Have you seen the terrible backup QB play this year? That is a choke point that can’t be over come

Edit: At most you could expand by 4 teams but some of your locations are non-starters:

Memphis - Regionally constrained between STL and TENN
Orlando - Florida needs another team like someone needs a hole in their head
Portland - Small but possible
Sacramento - No will to build a stadium

San Diego - Possible but fanbase has soured on the NFL; no will to build new stadium
San Antonio - DAL and HOU would definitely block
St. Louis - Viable but fanbase has soured on the NFL
Toronto - Viable but would marginalize CFL team

Is it politically possible to build a new NFL stadium in any of these places?

Las Vegas set the floor for a new local "public contribution" at $750 million. Can any of these places shake down their own populace for that much money or more?

BTW, I drove past the new Raiders stadium the other day while passing through Vegas. It looks absolutely massive from the freeway. It also looks not close enough to being finished to be ready for the first week in September, but looking out the car window is obviously not a thorough assessment.

I think STL and San Antonio would be able to secure public funding for new stadiums. I think the other locations wouldn’t be able to pull it off. That said MEM would probably be owned by FedEx’s owner and he could bankroll a stadium by himself.

Smith could bankroll a Memphis stadium, but would he be willing to finance all of that on his own on top of paying over $2 billion for a franchise.

What owner is going to take on all of the risk, with no public financing, for an NFL stadium?

Kroenke has the Chargers contributing at least something, he has partners sharing the risk on the real estate portion of the development, he will have revenue incoming from the real estate, and he's in the 2nd largest US media market with the 4th most valuable franchise.

Jerry Jones has the most valuable franchise, worth twice the median NFL franchise value, and is in the 5th largest media market.

The Giants and Jets shared their stadium cost between the two franchises, and each is in the top ten in franchise value and located in the largest media market.

And, all of those teams' owners have benefitted from massive appreciation in franchise value between the time they bought their teams and today.

None of those things would be true in Memphis, which would be approximately tied with Buffalo and New Orleans for the smallest NFL market size, so it would be a huge ask for an owner to front 100% of the stadium cost.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2019 11:07 PM by Wedge.)
12-28-2019 11:07 PM
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lew240z Offline
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RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
There is no damn way that there is any public money for an NFL stadium in Saint Louis. The city is poor. They are 130 vacant police billets and the sanitation, civil engineering and related departments are understaffed by more than 800 because the city can’t afford to fill the jobs. The schools are falling apart. The jail has no air conditioning and is grossly overcrowded and there are numerous lawsuits alleging inhuman conditions.

The county will absolutely refuse to help pay for a stadium even it were to be built in the county.

The state has just denied $40million for the new soccer stadium.

Besides, why would the NFL want to come here? According to Kroenke, Jerry Jones, and some other owners, Saint Louis is the shittiest place in the country.
12-29-2019 12:12 AM
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vandiver49 Online
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Post: #10
RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-29-2019 12:12 AM)lew240z Wrote:  There is no damn way that there is any public money for an NFL stadium in Saint Louis. The city is poor. They are 130 vacant police billets and the sanitation, civil engineering and related departments are understaffed by more than 800 because the city can’t afford to fill the jobs. The schools are falling apart. The jail has no air conditioning and is grossly overcrowded and there are numerous lawsuits alleging inhuman conditions.

The county will absolutely refuse to help pay for a stadium even it were to be built in the county.

The state has just denied $40million for the new soccer stadium.

Besides, why would the NFL want to come here? According to Kroenke, Jerry Jones, and some other owners, Saint Louis is the shittiest place in the country.

I hedged my bet on STL, but I appreciate the info you provided which obviously decreases the chances of public funding.

And this thread was regarding speculative expansion. While I don't run the league, the Rams shouldn't have been allowed to move and the Jacksonville team should have gone to STL. I will be interested in how the city's lawsuit with the league progresses, but, the owners comments had nothing to do with STL as a market. The NFL wanted back into LA and the only way they felt that could happen is if an owner was rich enough to bankroll a stadium himself. Kroenke was thus the only option.

Now if the league really wanted into LA that badly they could have financed an LA stadium, but that would mean at the least helping Spanos get richer and possibly Mark Davis as well. Not a prospect the NFL wanted IMO.
12-29-2019 12:41 AM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Exclamation RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-27-2019 05:22 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Negative ghost rider. Have you seen the terrible backup QB play this year? That is a choke point that can’t be over come

Edit: At most you could expand by 4 teams but some of your locations are non-starters:

Memphis - Regionally constrained between STL and TENN
Orlando - Florida needs another team like someone needs a hole in their head
Portland - Small but possible
Sacramento - No will to build a stadium

San Diego - Possible but fanbase has soured on the NFL; no will to build new stadium
San Antonio - DAL and HOU would definitely block
St. Louis - Viable but fanbase has soured on the NFL
Toronto - Viable but would marginalize CFL team

Thanks for responding.

Memphis being regionally restrained?

Memphis is 285 miles south of St Louis, 212 miles west of Nashville, 485 miles east of Dallas and is about the same distance North to Indianapolis.

Comparison: Nashville is 240 miles NW of Atlanta and 410 miles east of Charlotte. Charlotte is 245 miles NE of Atlanta. It is 272 miles between Nashville and Cincinnati.

Therefore, I think Memphis is perfect for expansion.

Orlando?

Orlando is 161 miles South of Jacksonville; 85 mile Northwest of Tampa; and 236 miles North of Miami.

Comparison: Baltimore is 40 miles North to Washington D.C.; 106 miles south of Philadelphia; and roughly 247 miles east of Pittsburgh.

Again, It does not appear that Orlando is regionally constrained. Neither would San Antonio.

San Antonio

The Alamodome seats 72,000. San Diego and St. Louis will build nice stadiums of the NFL agrees to pay appropriated rents. Why would Dallas and Houston block expansion to San Antonio? A team in San Antonio would bring millions of dollars more to the league in football crazy Texas.

California has 3 ( minus Raiders) teams.
Florida has 3 teams

Texas could easily acquire a third team. San Antonio is better than putting a team in London.

However, Sacramento, San Diego, St. Louis will not pay for stadiums and then "give" them to NFL owners. The history of NFL stadium negotiations in St. Louis, Los Angeles, Baltimore, and Cleveland are horrendous. Don't forget the fight in Minnesota as well.

There are also rumblings in Florida https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/new...oney.html.

The NFL could expand easily without the demand that tax payers build stadiums and then turn them over to NFL ownership.

Stadium and rent details for all 32 NFL teams

Toronto

I don't think Toronto will have problems having CFL and NFL teams. Toronto is pretty close to 3 million in population.

Portland

Finally, of all my suggestions, I think Portland is the least likely.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2019 08:35 AM by FloridaJag.)
12-30-2019 08:32 AM
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vandiver49 Online
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RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-30-2019 08:32 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  Thanks for responding.

Memphis being regionally restrained?

Memphis is 285 miles south of St Louis, 212 miles west of Nashville, 485 miles east of Dallas and is about the same distance North to Indianapolis.

Comparison: Nashville is 240 miles NW of Atlanta and 410 miles east of Charlotte. Charlotte is 245 miles NE of Atlanta. It is 272 miles between Nashville and Cincinnati.

Therefore, I think Memphis is perfect for expansion.

Orlando?

Orlando is 161 miles South of Jacksonville; 85 mile Northwest of Tampa; and 236 miles North of Miami.

Comparison: Baltimore is 40 miles North to Washington D.C.; 106 miles south of Philadelphia; and roughly 247 miles east of Pittsburgh.

Again, It does not appear that Orlando is regionally constrained. Neither would San Antonio.

San Antonio

The Alamodome seats 72,000. San Diego and St. Louis will build nice stadiums of the NFL agrees to pay appropriated rents. Why would Dallas and Houston block expansion to San Antonio? A team in San Antonio would bring millions of dollars more to the league in football crazy Texas.

California has 3 ( minus Raiders) teams.
Florida has 3 teams

Texas could easily acquire a third team. San Antonio is better than putting a team in London.

However, Sacramento, San Diego, St. Louis will not pay for stadiums and then "give" them to NFL owners. The history of NFL stadium negotiations in St. Louis, Los Angeles, Baltimore, and Cleveland are horrendous. Don't forget the fight in Minnesota as well.

There are also rumblings in Florida https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/new...oney.html.

The NFL could expand easily without the demand that tax payers build stadiums and then turn them over to NFL ownership.

Stadium and rent details for all 32 NFL teams

Toronto

I don't think Toronto will have problems having CFL and NFL teams. Toronto is pretty close to 3 million in population.

Portland

Finally, of all my suggestions, I think Portland is the least likely.

By regionally constrained I meant in terms of a team ability to draw and maintain and fanbase like in those NFL Fan Maps of the US. So what you are proposing is the current owner cannibalizing parts of their own reach for speculative gain.

Now I could see San Antonio potentially getting a team and ignoring NFL stadium standards and just playing in the Alamodome. But why if Jerry Jones want to lose out on all those current Cowboy fans?

With MEM just dont think that River city area from STL to the Delta could support two teams in that 'region'. You are also cannibalizing some of the Titans fanbase which is already small.

As the experience with JAX indicates, Florida struggles to support 3 teams, but at least the split is well defined. I don't think TB and ORL despite the population could work.

As for TOR, I am purely speculating but that is what I'm read as to why the NFL won't expand north of the boarder. The situation might have changed since when the Bills played games at SkyDome.

Finally, your stadium proposal is obviously within the leagues capability and probably what should have been done in SD. But the issue is the the NFL no longer can leverage a franchise team as a threat due to the financial commitment a new stadium represents.
12-30-2019 09:14 AM
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FloridaJag Offline
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RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-30-2019 09:14 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(12-30-2019 08:32 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  Thanks for responding.

Memphis being regionally restrained?

Memphis is 285 miles south of St Louis, 212 miles west of Nashville, 485 miles east of Dallas and is about the same distance North to Indianapolis.

Comparison: Nashville is 240 miles NW of Atlanta and 410 miles east of Charlotte. Charlotte is 245 miles NE of Atlanta. It is 272 miles between Nashville and Cincinnati.

Therefore, I think Memphis is perfect for expansion.

Orlando?

Orlando is 161 miles South of Jacksonville; 85 mile Northwest of Tampa; and 236 miles North of Miami.

Comparison: Baltimore is 40 miles North to Washington D.C.; 106 miles south of Philadelphia; and roughly 247 miles east of Pittsburgh.

Again, It does not appear that Orlando is regionally constrained. Neither would San Antonio.

San Antonio

The Alamodome seats 72,000. San Diego and St. Louis will build nice stadiums of the NFL agrees to pay appropriated rents. Why would Dallas and Houston block expansion to San Antonio? A team in San Antonio would bring millions of dollars more to the league in football crazy Texas.

California has 3 ( minus Raiders) teams.
Florida has 3 teams

Texas could easily acquire a third team. San Antonio is better than putting a team in London.

However, Sacramento, San Diego, St. Louis will not pay for stadiums and then "give" them to NFL owners. The history of NFL stadium negotiations in St. Louis, Los Angeles, Baltimore, and Cleveland are horrendous. Don't forget the fight in Minnesota as well.

There are also rumblings in Florida https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/new...oney.html.

The NFL could expand easily without the demand that tax payers build stadiums and then turn them over to NFL ownership.

Stadium and rent details for all 32 NFL teams

Toronto

I don't think Toronto will have problems having CFL and NFL teams. Toronto is pretty close to 3 million in population.

Portland

Finally, of all my suggestions, I think Portland is the least likely.

By regionally constrained I meant in terms of a team ability to draw and maintain and fanbase like in those NFL Fan Maps of the US. So what you are proposing is the current owner cannibalizing parts of their own reach for speculative gain.

Now I could see San Antonio potentially getting a team and ignoring NFL stadium standards and just playing in the Alamodome. But why if Jerry Jones want to lose out on all those current Cowboy fans?

With MEM just dont think that River city area from STL to the Delta could support two teams in that 'region'. You are also cannibalizing some of the Titans fanbase which is already small.

As the experience with JAX indicates, Florida struggles to support 3 teams, but at least the split is well defined. I don't think TB and ORL despite the population could work.

As for TOR, I am purely speculating but that is what I'm read as to why the NFL won't expand north of the boarder. The situation might have changed since when the Bills played games at SkyDome.

Finally, your stadium proposal is obviously within the leagues capability and probably what should have been done in SD. But the issue is the the NFL no longer can leverage a franchise team as a threat due to the financial commitment a new stadium represents.

Would not having teams in Memphis and St. Louis create an immediate rivalry?

Florida is unique because most of the people are from other state. 1,000 moving into state every year. Jacksonville would prosper if it played more games against the Jets, Ravens and Dolphins. If you add Orlando, then you have instant rivals with Jacksonville and Tampa.
12-30-2019 10:51 AM
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vandiver49 Online
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RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-30-2019 10:51 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  Would not having teams in Memphis and St. Louis create an immediate rivalry?

Florida is unique because most of the people are from other state. 1,000 moving into state every year. Jacksonville would prosper if it played more games against the Jets, Ravens and Dolphins. If you add Orlando, then you have instant rivals with Jacksonville and Tampa.

Sure, if you put them in the same division. Your proposal didn't do that. I can't speak to your idea on the Jags and who they play. I was stationed in Mayport while the Jags were actually decent they still had trouble selling out. I think that North Florida/ South Georgia might just not be a pro sports area.
12-30-2019 12:00 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-29-2019 12:41 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  While I don't run the league, the Rams shouldn't have been allowed to move and the Jacksonville team should have gone to STL.

Right. The NFL was poorly run in the 1990s and should have chosen St. Louis (or Baltimore) instead of Jacksonville for an expansion team. The league also should have been more proactive about instituting the franchise-moving guidelines that they now have. The criteria for moving and the large relocation fees would have prevented the Rams and Raiders moves out of LA, and probably would have led to those two teams sharing a stadium in Inglewood where the new stadium is now being built.
12-30-2019 01:26 PM
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vandiver49 Online
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RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-30-2019 01:26 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-29-2019 12:41 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  While I don't run the league, the Rams shouldn't have been allowed to move and the Jacksonville team should have gone to STL.

Right. The NFL was poorly run in the 1990s and should have chosen St. Louis (or Baltimore) instead of Jacksonville for an expansion team. The league also should have been more proactive about instituting the franchise-moving guidelines that they now have. The criteria for moving and the large relocation fees would have prevented the Rams and Raiders moves out of LA, and probably would have led to those two teams sharing a stadium in Inglewood where the new stadium is now being built.

I don't think it was run that badly, just that attention on issues such as these was not the focus. Clearly the league didn't feel they had any legal footing on moving due to Al Davis. That said they should have had things in place after Davis moved the Raiders to LA.

On expansion, I believe I read that Jacksonville was awarded a team because they had stable single ownership option versus the partnerships in BAL and STL. Interestingly, Kroenke was apart of the reformed STL bid. Kent Cooke wasn't feeling having a team up in BAL.

As for a stadium in Inglewood, considering the owners we are talking about, unless the city decided to help, its likely the both of them and USC would all be sharing the Coliseum.
12-30-2019 01:55 PM
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Post: #17
RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-30-2019 01:55 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(12-30-2019 01:26 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-29-2019 12:41 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  While I don't run the league, the Rams shouldn't have been allowed to move and the Jacksonville team should have gone to STL.

Right. The NFL was poorly run in the 1990s and should have chosen St. Louis (or Baltimore) instead of Jacksonville for an expansion team. The league also should have been more proactive about instituting the franchise-moving guidelines that they now have. The criteria for moving and the large relocation fees would have prevented the Rams and Raiders moves out of LA, and probably would have led to those two teams sharing a stadium in Inglewood where the new stadium is now being built.

I don't think it was run that badly, just that attention on issues such as these was not the focus. Clearly the league didn't feel they had any legal footing on moving due to Al Davis. That said they should have had things in place after Davis moved the Raiders to LA.

On expansion, I believe I read that Jacksonville was awarded a team because they had stable single ownership option versus the partnerships in BAL and STL. Interestingly, Kroenke was apart of the reformed STL bid. Kent Cooke wasn't feeling having a team up in BAL.

As for a stadium in Inglewood, considering the owners we are talking about, unless the city decided to help, its likely the both of them and USC would all be sharing the Coliseum.

Passing over better NFL markets because they liked the Jacksonville owner was a poor decision, especially given that ownership isn't permanent; teams are bought and sold.

IIRC, Al Davis was close to a deal to have a stadium built on the Hollywood Park site, but backed out because he could return to Oakland and have a renovated stadium paid for by the city and county, whereas the Raiders would have had to invest money in the Inglewood stadium.

The Rams were in flux after the almost-certainly-not-accidental death of their owner, and again the NFL stood by passively while the, ummm, "lucky" widow of the owner moved the team to St. Louis.
12-30-2019 02:16 PM
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lew240z Offline
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Post: #18
RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
The Jacksonville Jaguars were supposed to be the Saint Louis Stallions. The NFL was prepared to award the franchise of James Orthwein, a member of the Busch family. Orthwein had previously purchased the New England Patriots with the intention of moving the team to Saint Louis and renaming them as the Stallions. The previous own of the Patriots, Victor Kiam, had run into severe financial difficulties including owing a great deal on money to Orthwein. Kiam sold the team to Orthwein and the Foxborough stadium to Robert Kraft. Orthwein didn't want the stadium since he planned to move the team. The dome in STL was already under construction. However, Orthwein had to sell the team to Kraft when Kraft wouldn't let Orthwein out of the lease on Foxborough.

It was known that the NFL intended to expand, and STL had a shiny new dome. And, Orthwein seems to have been held in high regard by the NFL. But, and it is a big but, there was another prospective ownership group in STL led by Jerry Clinton. The late Mr. Clinton was at the time the owner of the largest Anheuser-Busch distributorship in the world. The idiots who own the dome, the St. Louis Regional Sports Authority, and the other idiots who manage the dome, the St. Louis Convention/Visitors Bureau gave the lease on the dome to Clinton. Clinton was not who the NFL wanted as the team owner. Despite negotiations led by the NFL and local politicians, Clinton refused to surrender the lease. The NFL was very reluctantly forced to place the team elsewhere. Baltimore was considered but its stadium plans were uncertain. Jacksonville had a stadium ready to go. So we have the Jacksonville Jaguars.

If you Google Saint Louis Stallions, we will find pictures of their expected uniforms of purple and gold. There are also pics of some fan items such as ball caps. I saw some of the ball caps and T-shirts being worn when I was in Kinshasa, Zaire shortly after the team was awarded to Jacksonville. Sports apparel is frequently dumped in third world countries.
12-30-2019 03:56 PM
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Post: #19
RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-30-2019 03:56 PM)lew240z Wrote:  The Jacksonville Jaguars were supposed to be the Saint Louis Stallions. The NFL was prepared to award the franchise of James Orthwein, a member of the Busch family. Orthwein had previously purchased the New England Patriots with the intention of moving the team to Saint Louis and renaming them as the Stallions. The previous own of the Patriots, Victor Kiam, had run into severe financial difficulties including owing a great deal on money to Orthwein. Kiam sold the team to Orthwein and the Foxborough stadium to Robert Kraft. Orthwein didn't want the stadium since he planned to move the team. The dome in STL was already under construction. However, Orthwein had to sell the team to Kraft when Kraft wouldn't let Orthwein out of the lease on Foxborough.

It was known that the NFL intended to expand, and STL had a shiny new dome. And, Orthwein seems to have been held in high regard by the NFL. But, and it is a big but, there was another prospective ownership group in STL led by Jerry Clinton. The late Mr. Clinton was at the time the owner of the largest Anheuser-Busch distributorship in the world. The idiots who own the dome, the St. Louis Regional Sports Authority, and the other idiots who manage the dome, the St. Louis Convention/Visitors Bureau gave the lease on the dome to Clinton. Clinton was not who the NFL wanted as the team owner. Despite negotiations led by the NFL and local politicians, Clinton refused to surrender the lease. The NFL was very reluctantly forced to place the team elsewhere. Baltimore was considered but its stadium plans were uncertain. Jacksonville had a stadium ready to go. So we have the Jacksonville Jaguars.

If you Google Saint Louis Stallions, we will find pictures of their expected uniforms of purple and gold. There are also pics of some fan items such as ball caps. I saw some of the ball caps and T-shirts being worn when I was in Kinshasa, Zaire shortly after the team was awarded to Jacksonville. Sports apparel is frequently dumped in third world countries.

Why would you hand out a lease before getting a tenant?
12-30-2019 04:01 PM
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Post: #20
RE: NFL should expand by 8 teams
(12-30-2019 04:01 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(12-30-2019 03:56 PM)lew240z Wrote:  The Jacksonville Jaguars were supposed to be the Saint Louis Stallions. The NFL was prepared to award the franchise of James Orthwein, a member of the Busch family. Orthwein had previously purchased the New England Patriots with the intention of moving the team to Saint Louis and renaming them as the Stallions. The previous own of the Patriots, Victor Kiam, had run into severe financial difficulties including owing a great deal on money to Orthwein. Kiam sold the team to Orthwein and the Foxborough stadium to Robert Kraft. Orthwein didn't want the stadium since he planned to move the team. The dome in STL was already under construction. However, Orthwein had to sell the team to Kraft when Kraft wouldn't let Orthwein out of the lease on Foxborough.

It was known that the NFL intended to expand, and STL had a shiny new dome. And, Orthwein seems to have been held in high regard by the NFL. But, and it is a big but, there was another prospective ownership group in STL led by Jerry Clinton. The late Mr. Clinton was at the time the owner of the largest Anheuser-Busch distributorship in the world. The idiots who own the dome, the St. Louis Regional Sports Authority, and the other idiots who manage the dome, the St. Louis Convention/Visitors Bureau gave the lease on the dome to Clinton. Clinton was not who the NFL wanted as the team owner. Despite negotiations led by the NFL and local politicians, Clinton refused to surrender the lease. The NFL was very reluctantly forced to place the team elsewhere. Baltimore was considered but its stadium plans were uncertain. Jacksonville had a stadium ready to go. So we have the Jacksonville Jaguars.

If you Google Saint Louis Stallions, we will find pictures of their expected uniforms of purple and gold. There are also pics of some fan items such as ball caps. I saw some of the ball caps and T-shirts being worn when I was in Kinshasa, Zaire shortly after the team was awarded to Jacksonville. Sports apparel is frequently dumped in third world countries.

Why would you hand out a lease before getting a tenant?

That's nuts. It's as if the St. Louis sports authorities told the NFL, "You don't get to choose who owns this expansion team, we do," and then expected the NFL to be happy about that.
12-30-2019 09:51 PM
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