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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #141
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-20-2019 10:19 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  
(12-20-2019 09:45 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(12-20-2019 09:07 PM)ODU2003 Wrote:  
(12-20-2019 07:35 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(12-20-2019 06:09 PM)Obiwan Wrote:  Exactly - our typical fans complain no matter what .. this gives them more to talk about over a cup of egg nog
Some never complain. They are like Baghdad Bob. Everything is fine. Nothing to see here.

We just lost 2 starters mid season. No matter the reason, that is not fine.

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Some think the cup is half full, others think the cup is shattered. I’m somewhere in between. I like Jones but he has a high floor and a low ceiling.

So my question is this; what is our ceiling as a program? Outside of a moon shot I’d say what VCU has accomplished is the max we could ask for. They are a consistent top 50 program who plays around in the top 25.

This season ODU has struggled but last year we made the tourney. I think right now we are a top 100 program (not season, program). It’s hard to go from top 100 to top 50 and even harder to move past that.

So yes I’m frustrated and disappointed by Godwin and Dickens leaving. Do I think it’s a defining moment for our program? No I don’t.

We’ll get it together and have a shot in the CUSA tournament. Go Monarchs.
I'll reiterate my post from earlier. This program is about as bad as it has been in it's D1 history over a 6 year period. It is the program that has a low floor, not JJ. I do agree that VCU is about as good as we can hope for, and that is pretty damn good. Why would you not arrive to be your best, and instead just hang out forever saying, yeah we could probably be better, but we aren't terrible. If I said that to my boss, I'd probably be fired.

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Have you been watching any of our games for the past 6 years? If so, that’s a pretty ridiculous statement to say this is as bad as it’s been. Or maybe I should ask do you know anything about the history of ODU bb? I am not going to waste my looking back at the records but try checking out Tom Young’s success with us. He was here about 6 years and had players like Chris Gatlin, AC Carver, and Frank Smith and aside from one really good year he had a losing record with us. His teams were terrible. How about the train wreck Blaine Taylor left us?

Sure, we all hate to see what this season looks like after 12 games but the low point for 6 years? I have been pretty proud of our record the past 6 years. Am I satisfied? Certainly not and no one is, not the fans, not the players, not the coaches. But we have done pretty well. It’s certainly not a low point for a 6 year period in any way, shape, or form.
Okay, so second worst? That would be near the worst. I agree Young's tenure was worse. JJ is more like Capel...who was fired by year 6 or 7.

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12-21-2019 09:11 AM
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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #142
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-20-2019 10:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-20-2019 10:19 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  
(12-20-2019 09:45 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(12-20-2019 09:07 PM)ODU2003 Wrote:  
(12-20-2019 07:35 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Some never complain. They are like Baghdad Bob. Everything is fine. Nothing to see here.

We just lost 2 starters mid season. No matter the reason, that is not fine.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Some think the cup is half full, others think the cup is shattered. I’m somewhere in between. I like Jones but he has a high floor and a low ceiling.

So my question is this; what is our ceiling as a program? Outside of a moon shot I’d say what VCU has accomplished is the max we could ask for. They are a consistent top 50 program who plays around in the top 25.

This season ODU has struggled but last year we made the tourney. I think right now we are a top 100 program (not season, program). It’s hard to go from top 100 to top 50 and even harder to move past that.

So yes I’m frustrated and disappointed by Godwin and Dickens leaving. Do I think it’s a defining moment for our program? No I don’t.

We’ll get it together and have a shot in the CUSA tournament. Go Monarchs.
I'll reiterate my post from earlier. This program is about as bad as it has been in it's D1 history over a 6 year period. It is the program that has a low floor, not JJ. I do agree that VCU is about as good as we can hope for, and that is pretty damn good. Why would you not arrive to be your best, and instead just hang out forever saying, yeah we could probably be better, but we aren't terrible. If I said that to my boss, I'd probably be fired.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Have you been watching any of our games for the past 6 years? If so, that’s a pretty ridiculous statement to say this is as bad as it’s been. Or maybe I should ask do you know anything about the history of ODU bb? I am not going to waste my looking back at the records but try checking out Tom Young’s success with us. He was here about 6 years and had players like Chris Gatlin, AC Carver, and Frank Smith and aside from one really good year he had a losing record with us. His teams were terrible. How about the train wreck Blaine Taylor left us?

Sure, we all hate to see what this season looks like after 12 games but the low point for 6 years? I have been pretty proud of our record the past 6 years. Am I satisfied? Certainly not and no one is, not the fans, not the players, not the coaches. But we have done pretty well. It’s certainly not a low point for a 6 year period in any way, shape, or form.
To put things in perspective, JJ did better with the train wreck Blaine left us than he is doing now. This team is worse than that one. Let that sink in.


But yeah, while this is one of the worst teams ODU has fielded, the 6 year statement wasn't fair.
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Do the homework. It is absolutely one of the worst 6 year stretches we have had.

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12-21-2019 09:12 AM
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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #143
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 08:43 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  The last two teams each won 25 games and one conference championship. Step off the ledge. This season sucks. End of story.
And we have been to one NCAAT in his entire tenure. If peak JJ is one NCAAT and a couple teams with high win totals against terrible schedules, that is not good enough.

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12-21-2019 09:14 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #144
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 09:09 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(12-20-2019 09:51 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Def not near the worst.
No? Care to elaborate?

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Jeff Capels best teams weren't even top 100 teams.

We've had 2 years around top 65 and another year at even 100 and thats not including last years teams which was not one of our best but won the conference tourney.

There is obviously room for growth and this year is not good, we aren't far off from what we've been in the past.

Just for a comparison but not saying either is better or worse:

Blaines first 6 years:

164
162
101
73
67
64

Jones first 6 years:
175
70
100
120
64
113

Blaines first 6 years improved and then he dipped down for 2 years in 08 *118) and 09 (93) before having the 2 great teams everyone seems to remember Blaine by 10 (37) and 11 (48) before rebuilding in 2012 and falling apart in 2013.

Capels teams for reference:

100
171
106
181
147

Capel shouldn't even be in the discussion, his tenure was not acceptable and far worse than anyone else. Youngs were obviously bad as well.

Just curious, what are your expectations from our team...what level of consistency? Top 25, 50, 75, 100, 125?
12-21-2019 09:23 AM
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VB Monarch Offline
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Post: #145
RE: Godwin transfers
This is just my perception. BT felt like he was building momentum and the program was ascending, it was moving. Obviously before he imploded.
JJ doesn't have that same feel. He is simply a slightly above average coach who is not really developing any momentum. He's just hanging on. His recruiting is suspect and his defense at all cost style does not lend itself to exciting basketball.

I want a program that can hover around the top 50 most years. Some a little better, some a little less. BT felt like he was doing this.
12-21-2019 09:44 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #146
RE: Godwin transfers
I believe the Monarchs should realistically be in the top 100 almost every year with an occasional dip lower but never below 200. They should be top 50 once every four years and have at least one NCAA appearance every four years. And I’d like to see better than that in the long run. I honestly don’t think that’s too much to ask of a program with the resources, history, fan base, budget and potential at ODU.
12-21-2019 09:45 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #147
RE: Godwin transfers
FWIW, Blaine had 2 top 50 teams.
12-21-2019 09:46 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #148
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 09:45 AM)monarx Wrote:  I believe the Monarchs should realistically be in the top 100 almost every year with an occasional dip lower but never below 200. They should be top 50 once every four years and have at least one NCAA appearance every four years. And I’d like to see better than that in the long run. I honestly don’t think that’s too much to ask of a program with the resources, history, fan base, budget and potential at ODU.

I would agree for the most part on all that except top 50 once every 4 years is a bit of an optimistic outlook. We've done that twice in history. The NCAAT is slippery since we've not gotten in with much better teams than we've gotten in with.
12-21-2019 09:47 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #149
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 09:44 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  This is just my perception. BT felt like he was building momentum and the program was ascending, it was moving. Obviously before he imploded.
JJ doesn't have that same feel. He is simply a slightly above average coach who is not really developing any momentum. He's just hanging on. His recruiting is suspect and his defense at all cost style does not lend itself to exciting basketball.

I want a program that can hover around the top 50 most years. Some a little better, some a little less. BT felt like he was doing this.

This is exactly how I feel too. Many of my hard core Monarch fans barely even care any more since Freeman left.
12-21-2019 09:48 AM
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Post: #150
RE: Godwin transfers
BT had the advantage of playing in a much better conference, it helped with RPI and recruiting.
12-21-2019 09:52 AM
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Post: #151
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 09:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  FWIW, Blaine had 2 top 50 teams.

Can we compare their records against William and Mary? JJ’s teams have been propped up by a weaker conference and weak OOC scheduling.
12-21-2019 09:54 AM
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Post: #152
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 09:44 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  This is just my perception. BT felt like he was building momentum and the program was ascending, it was moving. Obviously before he imploded.
JJ doesn't have that same feel. He is simply a slightly above average coach who is not really developing any momentum. He's just hanging on. His recruiting is suspect and his defense at all cost style does not lend itself to exciting basketball.

I want a program that can hover around the top 50 most years. Some a little better, some a little less. BT felt like he was doing this.

Exactly. I can’t defend BT’s last two seasons, but the majority of his coaching tenure it felt like we were building something. I thought JJ could do the same, especially early on with how successful he was with Blaine’s recruits. I think those were his best teams. But every time it feels like we are progressing, it’s two steps back.
12-21-2019 10:00 AM
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Post: #153
RE: Godwin transfers
JJ has been at ODU long enough to say this is his team. He is responsible for its make-up, quality of players, quality of players at each position, etc. He is responsible for ALL recruits and walk-on's. This is his team. If the team is deteriorating (certainly looks like it), it is his fault. No more putting the blame of Taylor or Capel! There does not appear to be a light at the end of the tunnel? JJ is not a good recruiter (doesn't have the personality), limited as to the style of play he is comfortable with coaching (not popular with most recruits) and doesn't have a problem with chastising players that don't follow his command in front of thousands of fans in person and on media. Has difficulty in keeping players on the team. I hope every year that it turns around. I do like JJ despite how it sounds, but maybe it is time for a change here just like it was for football. It is a shame to have such great facilities to play in only to have them half full with fans (yes, basketball is heading in that direction also!). You can say what you want to about Blaine Taylor, and he did have issues. But, the man had personality, could recruit players and had the fans totally supporting his teams! There has to be a coach out there that can fit that mold again
12-21-2019 10:07 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #154
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 09:54 AM)odufansam Wrote:  
(12-21-2019 09:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  FWIW, Blaine had 2 top 50 teams.

Can we compare their records against William and Mary? JJ’s teams have been propped up by a weaker conference and weak OOC scheduling.

A) Those rankings take account for level of competition
B) Record vs. 1 particular team means little
C) William and Mary sucked during Blaines tenure.
12-21-2019 10:07 AM
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bluelight Offline
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Post: #155
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 10:00 AM)odufansam Wrote:  
(12-21-2019 09:44 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  This is just my perception. BT felt like he was building momentum and the program was ascending, it was moving. Obviously before he imploded.
JJ doesn't have that same feel. He is simply a slightly above average coach who is not really developing any momentum. He's just hanging on. His recruiting is suspect and his defense at all cost style does not lend itself to exciting basketball.

I want a program that can hover around the top 50 most years. Some a little better, some a little less. BT felt like he was doing this.

Exactly. I can’t defend BT’s last two seasons, but the majority of his coaching tenure it felt like we were building something. I thought JJ could do the same, especially early on with how successful he was with Blaine’s recruits. I think those were his best teams. But every time it feels like we are progressing, it’s two steps back.
This will continue as long as JJ is the coach. For ODU to move higher, we need a coach that can recruit freshmen ( vice transfers) that are quality. It seems that this coaching staff takes gambles on late spring recruits that are no asset to get playing time. Case in point we recruited Pilavios who will probably never get any useful minutes in his four years. Another case is the late signing of Karaiskos (had a knee injury when signed) and a year later still is has not played because of the same injury. My point is, if the player is a real gamble, save the grant and use it in November, when most of the talented players sign..
12-21-2019 10:28 AM
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bluelight Offline
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Post: #156
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 10:00 AM)odufansam Wrote:  
(12-21-2019 09:44 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  This is just my perception. BT felt like he was building momentum and the program was ascending, it was moving. Obviously before he imploded.
JJ doesn't have that same feel. He is simply a slightly above average coach who is not really developing any momentum. He's just hanging on. His recruiting is suspect and his defense at all cost style does not lend itself to exciting basketball.

I want a program that can hover around the top 50 most years. Some a little better, some a little less. BT felt like he was doing this.

Exactly. I can’t defend BT’s last two seasons, but the majority of his coaching tenure it felt like we were building something. I thought JJ could do the same, especially early on with how successful he was with Blaine’s recruits. I think those were his best teams. But every time it feels like we are progressing, it’s two steps back.
This will continue as long as JJ is the coach. For ODU to move higher, we need a coach that can recruit freshmen ( vice transfers) that are quality. It seems that this coaching staff takes gambles on late spring recruits that are no asset to get playing time. Case in point we recruited Pilavios who will probably never get any useful minutes in his four years. Another case is the late signing of Karaiskos (had a knee injury when signed) and a year later still is has not played because of the same injury. My point is, if the player is a real gamble, save the grant and use it in November, when most of the talented players sign..
12-21-2019 10:28 AM
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bluelight Offline
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Post: #157
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 10:00 AM)odufansam Wrote:  
(12-21-2019 09:44 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  This is just my perception. BT felt like he was building momentum and the program was ascending, it was moving. Obviously before he imploded.
JJ doesn't have that same feel. He is simply a slightly above average coach who is not really developing any momentum. He's just hanging on. His recruiting is suspect and his defense at all cost style does not lend itself to exciting basketball.

I want a program that can hover around the top 50 most years. Some a little better, some a little less. BT felt like he was doing this.

Exactly. I can’t defend BT’s last two seasons, but the majority of his coaching tenure it felt like we were building something. I thought JJ could do the same, especially early on with how successful he was with Blaine’s recruits. I think those were his best teams. But every time it feels like we are progressing, it’s two steps back.
This will continue as long as JJ is the coach. For ODU to move higher, we need a coach that can recruit freshmen ( vice transfers) that are quality. It seems that this coaching staff takes gambles on late spring recruits that are no asset to get playing time. Case in point we recruited Pilavios who will probably never get any useful minutes in his four years. Another case is the late signing of Karaiskos (had a knee injury when signed) and a year later still is has not played because of the same injury. My point is, if the player is a real gamble, save the grant and use it in November, when most of the talented players sign..
12-21-2019 10:29 AM
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Prideofalion Offline
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Post: #158
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 09:14 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(12-21-2019 08:43 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  The last two teams each won 25 games and one conference championship. Step off the ledge. This season sucks. End of story.
And we have been to one NCAAT in his entire tenure. If peak JJ is one NCAAT and a couple teams with high win totals against terrible schedules, that is not good enough.

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I didn’t say it was good enough. But the teams have been pretty good aside from this one. Blaine’s first two teams sucked and Capel’s last two teams sucked. That was a pretty rough stretch as I do recall.
12-21-2019 10:58 AM
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Post: #159
RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 09:52 AM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  BT had the advantage of playing in a much better conference, it helped with RPI and recruiting.

And for the record, Blaine’s teams also played Mt St Mary’s and Loyola and Fairfield and St Francis and Howard or whoever. If we want to blame someone about scheduling and perception blame the administration. This conference is a complete joke and up until now we’ve done about as good as we can expect to do. when we have to travel to Texas twice a year to play and Miami and Louisiana all for conference games... I can’t believe we aren’t worse off... honestly.

This is the only conference that plays a Thursday/ Saturday schedule with travel partners. Half way across the country I might add. And now The only conference that doesn’t have the entire regular season schedule determined. Who knows who the last four games are against? It’s the freaking Mickey Mouse show. At least Blaine and Capel got to play against VCU and JMU in February home games and fans actually gave a damn. We get FIU on senior night now. It’s soo laughable. Actually I take that back, We don’t even know who senior night is against... hahaha.
12-21-2019 11:51 AM
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RE: Godwin transfers
(12-21-2019 11:51 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  
(12-21-2019 09:52 AM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  BT had the advantage of playing in a much better conference, it helped with RPI and recruiting.

And for the record, Blaine’s teams also played Mt St Mary’s and Loyola and Fairfield and St Francis and Howard or whoever. If we want to blame someone about scheduling and perception blame the administration. This conference is a complete joke and up until now we’ve done about as good as we can expect to do. when we have to travel to Texas twice a year to play and Miami and Louisiana all for conference games... I can’t believe we aren’t worse off... honestly.

This is the only conference that plays a Thursday/ Saturday schedule with travel partners. Half way across the country I might add. And now The only conference that doesn’t have the entire regular season schedule determined. Who knows who the last four games are against? It’s the freaking Mickey Mouse show. At least Blaine and Capel got to play against VCU and JMU in February home games and fans actually gave a damn. We get FIU on senior night now. It’s soo laughable. Actually I take that back, We don’t even know who senior night is against... hahaha.

Exactly right! I don’t think we can blame coach Jones for our weak schedule. As a matter of fact ODU has worked as hard as any team in the conference to upgrade it. Everybody knows scheduling for mid majors is getting harder and harder. On paper our conference schedule looks like a bunch of cupcakes but mix in the travel schedule to play those teams and I’d like to see how any team ranked from 50 to 100 would fare. Heck, VCU almost lost to North Texas on their home court. I wonder how they would do going to Rice on. Thursday night, then playing at NT two days later. This crappy conference is not on our coach,
12-21-2019 12:12 PM
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