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Is BW A Scapegoat?
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #61
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
But, DeMarco would have been back.....

Ignoring that Ong would have been back....

Ingoring we had Heinicke, they would have had a different backup QB

Ignoring that, I don't think UMASS comes back from 2 TD behind in the 2nd half to beat us.

Nova was terrible.....Richmond wasn't very good.

So hypothetically, how many games would our 4th string QB won...who knows, but the chances of him actually playing were slim. And if he did it would have only last a game or 2.
12-18-2019 02:19 PM
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Post: #62
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 01:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  CUSA is a tough pill to swallow for me, and I honestly would probably enjoy basketball and football more RIGHT NOW if we were still in the CAA, but the rub is that you have to move up to FBS to make the next move, which is where I ultimately want the athletic dept to go. So, while I hate everything about CUSA, especially for basketball which is my preferred sport by a lot, I grit my teeth and accept it because it is a necessary step on the journey to where I want to go.

Exact same for me
12-18-2019 02:20 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 01:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  CUSA is a tough pill to swallow for me, and I honestly would probably enjoy basketball and football more RIGHT NOW if we were still in the CAA, but the rub is that you have to move up to FBS to make the next move, which is where I ultimately want the athletic dept to go. So, while I hate everything about CUSA, especially for basketball which is my preferred sport by a lot, I grit my teeth and accept it because it is a necessary step on the journey to where I want to go.

I understand people wishing that the CAA roster from, say, the early 2000s was intact in 2019, and so long as there was a viable way forward for ODU football, I'd agree. But what is appealing about today's CAA? An additional game with JMU and W&M, at least one game against Charleston, which is usually good, and then ... then what? Do you really miss Drexel, Hofstra, Towson? Do you wish Elon came aboard when ODU was in the CAA? Did the Northeastern game strike a twinge of nostalga?

I know I'm coming off as sarcastic, and well, yeah, I am sarcastic, but I'm also genuinely curious: What makes today's CAA more attractive than CUSA? Why would playing in today's CAA be more enjoyable? If it's "well, because we always were good in the CAA," you can't extrapolate two football seasons into a permanent floor, and basketball probably would be about where it is in CUSA -- good enough to hang around the top of the standings but any hope of NCAAs would come down to the tournament. The CAA tournament back in the day was special but the Richmond Coliseum has been closed for a year and there's no bringing that magic back.

Is there something about the CAA, circa 2019, that I'm missing? I see posters like you, reasonable posters with whom I disagree but nevertheless respect, make points like this, and I feel like there's a piece of the puzzle that's out of my reach, because all I see is an anonymous mid-major conference with a lot of schools I couldn't give a whit about, only with no Virginia and Virginia Tech football coming to town.
12-18-2019 02:32 PM
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odu09 Online
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RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 01:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  CUSA is a tough pill to swallow for me, and I honestly would probably enjoy basketball and football more RIGHT NOW if we were still in the CAA, but the rub is that you have to move up to FBS to make the next move, which is where I ultimately want the athletic dept to go. So, while I hate everything about CUSA, especially for basketball which is my preferred sport by a lot, I grit my teeth and accept it because it is a necessary step on the journey to where I want to go.

I understand people wishing that the CAA roster from, say, the early 2000s was intact in 2019, and so long as there was a viable way forward for ODU football, I'd agree. But what is appealing about today's CAA? An additional game with JMU and W&M, at least one game against Charleston, which is usually good, and then ... then what? Do you really miss Drexel, Hofstra, Towson? Do you wish Elon came aboard when ODU was in the CAA? Did the Northeastern game strike a twinge of nostalga?

I know I'm coming off as sarcastic, and well, yeah, I am sarcastic, but I'm also genuinely curious: What makes today's CAA more attractive than CUSA? Why would playing in today's CAA be more enjoyable? If it's "well, because we always were good in the CAA," you can't extrapolate two football seasons into a permanent floor, and basketball probably would be about where it is in CUSA -- good enough to hang around the top of the standings but any hope of NCAAs would come down to the tournament. The CAA tournament back in the day was special but the Richmond Coliseum has been closed for a year and there's no bringing that magic back.

Is there something about the CAA, circa 2019, that I'm missing? I see posters like you, reasonable posters with whom I disagree but nevertheless respect, make points like this, and I feel like there's a piece of the puzzle that's out of my reach, because all I see is an anonymous mid-major conference with a lot of schools I couldn't give a whit about, only with no Virginia and Virginia Tech football coming to town.

I think I can at least provide my own answer to your question by asking you a question, who in CUSA excites you? MT because we've never beaten them before? They would be an unknown quanity to us had we stayed CAA. Who else is there? UAB because of the history from long ago, maybe LT and WKU for the same reason. Nobody else moves the needle at all.
12-18-2019 02:38 PM
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Post: #65
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 01:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  CUSA is a tough pill to swallow for me, and I honestly would probably enjoy basketball and football more RIGHT NOW if we were still in the CAA, but the rub is that you have to move up to FBS to make the next move, which is where I ultimately want the athletic dept to go. So, while I hate everything about CUSA, especially for basketball which is my preferred sport by a lot, I grit my teeth and accept it because it is a necessary step on the journey to where I want to go.

Honestly, this is one of the sanest posts I have ever read on this board. 04-cheers
12-18-2019 02:41 PM
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RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 02:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  But, DeMarco would have been back.....

Ignoring that Ong would have been back....

Ingoring we had Heinicke, they would have had a different backup QB

Ignoring that, I don't think UMASS comes back from 2 TD behind in the 2nd half to beat us.

Nova was terrible.....Richmond wasn't very good.

So hypothetically, how many games would our 4th string QB won...who knows, but the chances of him actually playing were slim. And if he did it would have only last a game or 2.

Heinicke was already third string. How would we have had a different backup than Ong?
We had no other QBs on the roster than Tyler Clark. He would have either been third or without TH we might have had another third. In no case can I see either third or forth as being another Heinicke.
Hell, we haven't been able to duplicate that even at FBS.


Huh?? UMASS did indeed come back, with 26 unanswered points from the 2nd half through the third quarter to take the lead - until we got the safety. It then took a typical Heinike performance in the 4th quarter to win that one.

Granted Nova was bad and UR was not good.
Still UR played us pretty well and I don't believe that Ong would have beaten them had he been back. Taylor's 3 TDs and 373 passing yards were the difference in that game.

Without Heinicke we still do not beat W&M or JMU
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2019 03:12 PM by ODUalum78.)
12-18-2019 02:42 PM
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Post: #67
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 01:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  CUSA is a tough pill to swallow for me, and I honestly would probably enjoy basketball and football more RIGHT NOW if we were still in the CAA, but the rub is that you have to move up to FBS to make the next move, which is where I ultimately want the athletic dept to go. So, while I hate everything about CUSA, especially for basketball which is my preferred sport by a lot, I grit my teeth and accept it because it is a necessary step on the journey to where I want to go.

I understand people wishing that the CAA roster from, say, the early 2000s was intact in 2019, and so long as there was a viable way forward for ODU football, I'd agree. But what is appealing about today's CAA? An additional game with JMU and W&M, at least one game against Charleston, which is usually good, and then ... then what? Do you really miss Drexel, Hofstra, Towson? Do you wish Elon came aboard when ODU was in the CAA? Did the Northeastern game strike a twinge of nostalga?

I know I'm coming off as sarcastic, and well, yeah, I am sarcastic, but I'm also genuinely curious: What makes today's CAA more attractive than CUSA? Why would playing in today's CAA be more enjoyable? If it's "well, because we always were good in the CAA," you can't extrapolate two football seasons into a permanent floor, and basketball probably would be about where it is in CUSA -- good enough to hang around the top of the standings but any hope of NCAAs would come down to the tournament. The CAA tournament back in the day was special but the Richmond Coliseum has been closed for a year and there's no bringing that magic back.

Is there something about the CAA, circa 2019, that I'm missing? I see posters like you, reasonable posters with whom I disagree but nevertheless respect, make points like this, and I feel like there's a piece of the puzzle that's out of my reach, because all I see is an anonymous mid-major conference with a lot of schools I couldn't give a whit about, only with no Virginia and Virginia Tech football coming to town.

Let's start with the fact that the CAA is a better basketball conference than CUSA and couple that with the fact that we have some established rivalries over there, and had fans that engaged with each other. It was an all around more enjoyable product, and it wasn't only because of VCU and GMU. We had fun times with Drexel and Northeastern in the past, and likely would establish rivalries with the likes of CofC as well. Hell, we still got more engagement from Northeastern than we do from any of our current conference mates when we played them this year. There is a cohesiveness in CAA that CUSA does not have.

You will say that we still play all of the CAA teams we care about in non conference games, but non conference games are not the same.

On the football side, the competition is obviously significantly worse, but we do get JMU in CAA which would always be fun, and more importantly, we get to play for something. The chance of making a playoff makes every game feel more meaningful, and definitely adds some excitement to games with teams of little interest, that CUSA or any G5 football, for that matter is unable to replicate.

My case is a lot harder to make for football. I will grant that, but as I said, I am a basketball first guy, and to me, CAA is still a far more interesting option at this point than CUSA. I will say that the terrible TV situation in CAA does hurt them some, however.
12-18-2019 02:50 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 02:38 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 01:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  CUSA is a tough pill to swallow for me, and I honestly would probably enjoy basketball and football more RIGHT NOW if we were still in the CAA, but the rub is that you have to move up to FBS to make the next move, which is where I ultimately want the athletic dept to go. So, while I hate everything about CUSA, especially for basketball which is my preferred sport by a lot, I grit my teeth and accept it because it is a necessary step on the journey to where I want to go.

I understand people wishing that the CAA roster from, say, the early 2000s was intact in 2019, and so long as there was a viable way forward for ODU football, I'd agree. But what is appealing about today's CAA? An additional game with JMU and W&M, at least one game against Charleston, which is usually good, and then ... then what? Do you really miss Drexel, Hofstra, Towson? Do you wish Elon came aboard when ODU was in the CAA? Did the Northeastern game strike a twinge of nostalga?

I know I'm coming off as sarcastic, and well, yeah, I am sarcastic, but I'm also genuinely curious: What makes today's CAA more attractive than CUSA? Why would playing in today's CAA be more enjoyable? If it's "well, because we always were good in the CAA," you can't extrapolate two football seasons into a permanent floor, and basketball probably would be about where it is in CUSA -- good enough to hang around the top of the standings but any hope of NCAAs would come down to the tournament. The CAA tournament back in the day was special but the Richmond Coliseum has been closed for a year and there's no bringing that magic back.

Is there something about the CAA, circa 2019, that I'm missing? I see posters like you, reasonable posters with whom I disagree but nevertheless respect, make points like this, and I feel like there's a piece of the puzzle that's out of my reach, because all I see is an anonymous mid-major conference with a lot of schools I couldn't give a whit about, only with no Virginia and Virginia Tech football coming to town.

I think I can at least provide my own answer to your question by asking you a question, who in CUSA excites you? MT because we've never beaten them before? They would be an unknown quanity to us had we stayed CAA. Who else is there? UAB because of the history from long ago, maybe LT and WKU for the same reason. Nobody else moves the needle at all.

Two points in response:

1. None of that explains why you think the CAA is better or more enjoyable.
2. For my money, I'd rather match up with like-minded institutions like Western Kentucky, UAB and Charlotte than ones where the only thing linking us was conference affiliation, like Elon and Drexel and Northeastern. The only two schools I care about in the CAA are JMU and W&M and we already play them in most sports. Plus you have to think forward: CUSA programs have more growth potential than CAA ones; a fully realized Marshall or Southern Miss is going to be way more interesting than a fully realized Hofstra or UNCW.
12-18-2019 02:54 PM
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RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 02:54 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 02:38 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 01:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  CUSA is a tough pill to swallow for me, and I honestly would probably enjoy basketball and football more RIGHT NOW if we were still in the CAA, but the rub is that you have to move up to FBS to make the next move, which is where I ultimately want the athletic dept to go. So, while I hate everything about CUSA, especially for basketball which is my preferred sport by a lot, I grit my teeth and accept it because it is a necessary step on the journey to where I want to go.

I understand people wishing that the CAA roster from, say, the early 2000s was intact in 2019, and so long as there was a viable way forward for ODU football, I'd agree. But what is appealing about today's CAA? An additional game with JMU and W&M, at least one game against Charleston, which is usually good, and then ... then what? Do you really miss Drexel, Hofstra, Towson? Do you wish Elon came aboard when ODU was in the CAA? Did the Northeastern game strike a twinge of nostalga?

I know I'm coming off as sarcastic, and well, yeah, I am sarcastic, but I'm also genuinely curious: What makes today's CAA more attractive than CUSA? Why would playing in today's CAA be more enjoyable? If it's "well, because we always were good in the CAA," you can't extrapolate two football seasons into a permanent floor, and basketball probably would be about where it is in CUSA -- good enough to hang around the top of the standings but any hope of NCAAs would come down to the tournament. The CAA tournament back in the day was special but the Richmond Coliseum has been closed for a year and there's no bringing that magic back.

Is there something about the CAA, circa 2019, that I'm missing? I see posters like you, reasonable posters with whom I disagree but nevertheless respect, make points like this, and I feel like there's a piece of the puzzle that's out of my reach, because all I see is an anonymous mid-major conference with a lot of schools I couldn't give a whit about, only with no Virginia and Virginia Tech football coming to town.

I think I can at least provide my own answer to your question by asking you a question, who in CUSA excites you? MT because we've never beaten them before? They would be an unknown quanity to us had we stayed CAA. Who else is there? UAB because of the history from long ago, maybe LT and WKU for the same reason. Nobody else moves the needle at all.

Two points in response:

1. None of that explains why you think the CAA is better or more enjoyable.
2. For my money, I'd rather match up with like-minded institutions like Western Kentucky, UAB and Charlotte than ones where the only thing linking us was conference affiliation, like Elon and Drexel and Northeastern. The only two schools I care about in the CAA are JMU and W&M and we already play them in most sports. Plus you have to think forward: CUSA programs have more growth potential than CAA ones; a fully realized Marshall or Southern Miss is going to be way more interesting than a fully realized Hofstra or UNCW.

1. Old rivalries and history of 20+ years against familiar opponents
2. Then you and I are simply cut from a different cloth. I would have no clue about WKU or UAB or Charlotte if we weren't in CUSA. And you keep making the assumption that we have growth potential, and if that potential is realized then it certainly is worth it, but the original response was about here and now.
12-18-2019 03:03 PM
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RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 02:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Let's start with the fact that the CAA is a better basketball conference than CUSA and couple that with the fact that we have some established rivalries over there, and had fans that engaged with each other. It was an all around more enjoyable product, and it wasn't only because of VCU and GMU. We had fun times with Drexel and Northeastern in the past, and likely would establish rivalries with the likes of CofC as well. Hell, we still got more engagement from Northeastern than we do from any of our current conference mates when we played them this year. There is a cohesiveness in CAA that CUSA does not have.

We have two rivalries with CAA schools: W&M and JMU. We play W&M every season, and we play JMU most seasons. The rest of that crew aren't rivals any more than South Alabama or Jacksonville are. They're just ex-conference mates. How much enthusiasm was there for the Northeastern game? I think if I had to formulate a consensus statement for the board's feelings, it would be "ugh, gotta play in that damned hockey rink." I've never heard anyone here demand more games with Hofstra, or Drexel, or UNCW. We had a home-and-home with Towson and posters were bothered we were even bothering with them in the first place, much less going to their gym.

The CAA in 2000 was cohesive. The CAA in 2019 is not.

Quote:You will say that we still play all of the CAA teams we care about in non conference games, but non conference games are not the same.

And I did! But a good rivalry transcends conference ties. VCU and Richmond aren't in the same conference with ODU, but VCU is ODU's top rival and UR might be second, or at the worst third behind W&M. Those games are meaningful because of who they are, not what conference they call home.

If we don't care about FIU and UTSA even though we're in the same conference, why would we suddenly and magically care about most of the CAA teams if we went back?

Quote:On the football side, the competition is obviously significantly worse, but we do get JMU in CAA which would always be fun, and more importantly, we get to play for something. The chance of making a playoff makes every game feel more meaningful, and definitely adds some excitement to games with teams of little interest, that CUSA or any G5 football, for that matter is unable to replicate.
JMU isn't long for FCS. I know the jokes about monitoring the situation well, but that is not a program making moves with an eye toward a long-term relationship with Elon and Rhode Island football. I would not make conference moves with the idea that JMU is going to be in the CAA for an extended period. If ODU thought ECU was sticking around in CUSA long-term, then that was a miscalculation on their part because ECU had been itching for a promotion for more than a decade.

So, those FCS playoffs. Off the top of your head, who's in them right now? I know North Dakota State and JMU because it's always North Dakota State and JMU, but I couldn't tell you who else is good this season any more than I could tell you who's good in D2 or D3. Most fans are like that. I'm sure if for some dumb reason ODU dropped to D2 I'd care more about the top teams in that level of play, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to go there from here.

Quote:to me, CAA is still a far more interesting option at this point than CUSA. I will say that the terrible TV situation in CAA does hurt them some, however.

That's where we break hardest. I was interested in the CAA when we were in it, but now we're not and quite frankly I don't care about them anymore. I'm sure if ODU makes it to the AAC or A10, I'll feel the same way about CUSA. It's natural progression. ODU is in a different place than it was 10 years ago and I see no benefit in going back. Not for a CAA that doesn't exist the way we remember it.
12-18-2019 03:19 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 03:03 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 02:54 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 02:38 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 01:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  CUSA is a tough pill to swallow for me, and I honestly would probably enjoy basketball and football more RIGHT NOW if we were still in the CAA, but the rub is that you have to move up to FBS to make the next move, which is where I ultimately want the athletic dept to go. So, while I hate everything about CUSA, especially for basketball which is my preferred sport by a lot, I grit my teeth and accept it because it is a necessary step on the journey to where I want to go.

I understand people wishing that the CAA roster from, say, the early 2000s was intact in 2019, and so long as there was a viable way forward for ODU football, I'd agree. But what is appealing about today's CAA? An additional game with JMU and W&M, at least one game against Charleston, which is usually good, and then ... then what? Do you really miss Drexel, Hofstra, Towson? Do you wish Elon came aboard when ODU was in the CAA? Did the Northeastern game strike a twinge of nostalga?

I know I'm coming off as sarcastic, and well, yeah, I am sarcastic, but I'm also genuinely curious: What makes today's CAA more attractive than CUSA? Why would playing in today's CAA be more enjoyable? If it's "well, because we always were good in the CAA," you can't extrapolate two football seasons into a permanent floor, and basketball probably would be about where it is in CUSA -- good enough to hang around the top of the standings but any hope of NCAAs would come down to the tournament. The CAA tournament back in the day was special but the Richmond Coliseum has been closed for a year and there's no bringing that magic back.

Is there something about the CAA, circa 2019, that I'm missing? I see posters like you, reasonable posters with whom I disagree but nevertheless respect, make points like this, and I feel like there's a piece of the puzzle that's out of my reach, because all I see is an anonymous mid-major conference with a lot of schools I couldn't give a whit about, only with no Virginia and Virginia Tech football coming to town.

I think I can at least provide my own answer to your question by asking you a question, who in CUSA excites you? MT because we've never beaten them before? They would be an unknown quanity to us had we stayed CAA. Who else is there? UAB because of the history from long ago, maybe LT and WKU for the same reason. Nobody else moves the needle at all.

Two points in response:

1. None of that explains why you think the CAA is better or more enjoyable.
2. For my money, I'd rather match up with like-minded institutions like Western Kentucky, UAB and Charlotte than ones where the only thing linking us was conference affiliation, like Elon and Drexel and Northeastern. The only two schools I care about in the CAA are JMU and W&M and we already play them in most sports. Plus you have to think forward: CUSA programs have more growth potential than CAA ones; a fully realized Marshall or Southern Miss is going to be way more interesting than a fully realized Hofstra or UNCW.

1. Old rivalries and history of 20+ years against familiar opponents
2. Then you and I are simply cut from a different cloth. I would have no clue about WKU or UAB or Charlotte if we weren't in CUSA. And you keep making the assumption that we have growth potential, and if that potential is realized then it certainly is worth it, but the original response was about here and now.

1. Again, two rivalries, both of which we're still maintaining. We play other CAA teams frequently (Towson and Northeastern most recently) and those games generate as much interest here as ones against Fairfield and UMES. The only CAA school I wish we'd play is Charleston, and we've never been in a conference with them.
2. So your stance is, everything else being equal, conference games against CAA teams are more interesting than ones against CUSA teams? That's fine if you think that, but objectively, ODU has much more in common with Charlotte/UAB/WKU/MT than anyone in the CAA not named JMU or W&M, and that makes them more interesting to me. Plus they're generally better programs. UAB, MT and Marshall have won NCAA games in the past five seasons; the last current CAA team to do so while a CAA member is UNC Wilmington in 2002.

I miss some of my co-workers from my last job, but I'm not trying to go back there; I can meet them for coffee if I want to catch up.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2019 03:32 PM by Cyniclone.)
12-18-2019 03:31 PM
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RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
interesting perspective some of you are starting to have now.

although i agree with those of you who say at the time it was the right move, i also thinnk some of you are starting to see the light and realize that CUSA/SB/MAC isn't some utopia because you have an FBS label.

it's purgatory. Bottom line.

as for the bowl ratings, yes, maybe a bowl game has higher ratings than ONE FCS playoff game.....but we had 3 ESPN games in 2016 and 2017....2 so far this year....and the FCS title game is on ABC this year, not an ESPN network. Will be interesting to compare the ratings for that game in a few weeks vs these bowl games.

add the exposure of THREE ESPN games in a month, and that is far superior to 1 single bowl game that barely outdraws the fcs final.
12-18-2019 03:53 PM
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RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 03:53 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  interesting perspective some of you are starting to have now.

although i agree with those of you who say at the time it was the right move, i also thinnk some of you are starting to see the light and realize that CUSA/SB/MAC isn't some utopia because you have an FBS label.

it's purgatory. Bottom line.

as for the bowl ratings, yes, maybe a bowl game has higher ratings than ONE FCS playoff game.....but we had 3 ESPN games in 2016 and 2017....2 so far this year....and the FCS title game is on ABC this year, not an ESPN network. Will be interesting to compare the ratings for that game in a few weeks vs these bowl games.

add the exposure of THREE ESPN games in a month, and that is far superior to 1 single bowl game that barely outdraws the fcs final.

I prefer current CUSA over current CAA but it's because I think ODU won't be in this rut forever. Football and basketball are not great right now but I do think it will get better. I have no reason to believe that Ricky Rahne won't lift our program up given time to implement his program, and while I like and respect Jeff Jones as a person, his time at ODU is limited due to health or due to his teams not performing to a respectable level (we've lost several games in a row this year we should not have). Maybe that's homerism but I also try to be a realist and realize that just because things suck now doesn't mean it'll always be that way.

I can agree that CUSA/SB/MAC isn't some utopia, but are you saying FCS is?

I know over the years, ODU and JMU fans have stuck to their guns that their respective schools have made the better choice in moving up or staying put. But on this side of the fence I don't ever want to move back down to CAA for any sport.

That being said, I do wish ODU was in a conference with JMU, just not the CAA. Those two football games we played felt like an immediate natural rivalry and I'd love to rekindle that again.
12-18-2019 04:16 PM
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Post: #74
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 03:53 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  interesting perspective some of you are starting to have now.

although i agree with those of you who say at the time it was the right move, i also thinnk some of you are starting to see the light and realize that CUSA/SB/MAC isn't some utopia because you have an FBS label.

it's purgatory. Bottom line.

as for the bowl ratings, yes, maybe a bowl game has higher ratings than ONE FCS playoff game.....but we had 3 ESPN games in 2016 and 2017....2 so far this year....and the FCS title game is on ABC this year, not an ESPN network. Will be interesting to compare the ratings for that game in a few weeks vs these bowl games.

add the exposure of THREE ESPN games in a month, and that is far superior to 1 single bowl game that barely outdraws the fcs final.

Interesting that you think anybody outside of FCS cares about the quarters or semi's. I could see some casual interest in the FCS championship game, even that doesn't beat the worst bowl game.

You also forget that you need to get the FCS title game to get that rating, while we simply need .500 record to get a bowl that brings more exposure. It's really not a worse deal for us.

And thank goodness we don't have that flosports deal you do for basketball.
12-18-2019 04:22 PM
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Post: #75
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 01:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  CUSA is a tough pill to swallow for me, and I honestly would probably enjoy basketball and football more RIGHT NOW if we were still in the CAA, but the rub is that you have to move up to FBS to make the next move, which is where I ultimately want the athletic dept to go. So, while I hate everything about CUSA, especially for basketball which is my preferred sport by a lot, I grit my teeth and accept it because it is a necessary step on the journey to where I want to go.

I understand people wishing that the CAA roster from, say, the early 2000s was intact in 2019, and so long as there was a viable way forward for ODU football, I'd agree. But what is appealing about today's CAA? An additional game with JMU and W&M, at least one game against Charleston, which is usually good, and then ... then what? Do you really miss Drexel, Hofstra, Towson? Do you wish Elon came aboard when ODU was in the CAA? Did the Northeastern game strike a twinge of nostalga?

I know I'm coming off as sarcastic, and well, yeah, I am sarcastic, but I'm also genuinely curious: What makes today's CAA more attractive than CUSA? Why would playing in today's CAA be more enjoyable? If it's "well, because we always were good in the CAA," you can't extrapolate two football seasons into a permanent floor, and basketball probably would be about where it is in CUSA -- good enough to hang around the top of the standings but any hope of NCAAs would come down to the tournament. The CAA tournament back in the day was special but the Richmond Coliseum has been closed for a year and there's no bringing that magic back.

Is there something about the CAA, circa 2019, that I'm missing? I see posters like you, reasonable posters with whom I disagree but nevertheless respect, make points like this, and I feel like there's a piece of the puzzle that's out of my reach, because all I see is an anonymous mid-major conference with a lot of schools I couldn't give a whit about, only with no Virginia and Virginia Tech football coming to town.

Don't think he claimed it was appealing, but more less unappealing than the current situation.
12-18-2019 04:28 PM
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Post: #76
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 02:42 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 02:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  But, DeMarco would have been back.....

Ignoring that Ong would have been back....

Ingoring we had Heinicke, they would have had a different backup QB

Ignoring that, I don't think UMASS comes back from 2 TD behind in the 2nd half to beat us.

Nova was terrible.....Richmond wasn't very good.

So hypothetically, how many games would our 4th string QB won...who knows, but the chances of him actually playing were slim. And if he did it would have only last a game or 2.

Heinicke was already third string. How would we have had a different backup than Ong?
We had no other QBs on the roster than Tyler Clark. He would have either been third or without TH we might have had another third. In no case can I see either third or forth as being another Heinicke.
Hell, we haven't been able to duplicate that even at FBS.


Huh?? UMASS did indeed come back, with 26 unanswered points from the 2nd half through the third quarter to take the lead - until we got the safety. It then took a typical Heinike performance in the 4th quarter to win that one.

Granted Nova was bad and UR was not good.
Still UR played us pretty well and I don't believe that Ong would have beaten them had he been back. Taylor's 3 TDs and 373 passing yards were the difference in that game.

Without Heinicke we still do not beat W&M or JMU

WHAT, our highly rated 3 star quarterback tommy reamon jr wasn't developed and waiting for his time to shine???? Dang Whitcomb 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot

I know he switched positions to TE 07-coffee3
12-18-2019 04:28 PM
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Post: #77
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 04:16 PM)MonGNARch Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 03:53 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  interesting perspective some of you are starting to have now.

although i agree with those of you who say at the time it was the right move, i also thinnk some of you are starting to see the light and realize that CUSA/SB/MAC isn't some utopia because you have an FBS label.

it's purgatory. Bottom line.

as for the bowl ratings, yes, maybe a bowl game has higher ratings than ONE FCS playoff game.....but we had 3 ESPN games in 2016 and 2017....2 so far this year....and the FCS title game is on ABC this year, not an ESPN network. Will be interesting to compare the ratings for that game in a few weeks vs these bowl games.

add the exposure of THREE ESPN games in a month, and that is far superior to 1 single bowl game that barely outdraws the fcs final.

I prefer current CUSA over current CAA but it's because I think ODU won't be in this rut forever. Football and basketball are not great right now but I do think it will get better. I have no reason to believe that Ricky Rahne won't lift our program up given time to implement his program, and while I like and respect Jeff Jones as a person, his time at ODU is limited due to health or due to his teams not performing to a respectable level (we've lost several games in a row this year we should not have). Maybe that's homerism but I also try to be a realist and realize that just because things suck now doesn't mean it'll always be that way.

I can agree that CUSA/SB/MAC isn't some utopia, but are you saying FCS is?

I know over the years, ODU and JMU fans have stuck to their guns that their respective schools have made the better choice in moving up or staying put. But on this side of the fence I don't ever want to move back down to CAA for any sport.

That being said, I do wish ODU was in a conference with JMU, just not the CAA. Those two football games we played felt like an immediate natural rivalry and I'd love to rekindle that again.

compared to the P5? No, it's far from that utopia. i'm not naive to that.

I'm just realistic. In the years since you've moved up, the gap between the P5 and the rest of the college football world is widening immensely each year.

when those schools bring in $50m+ a year and you bring in $1m (maybe) how do you close that gap? You can't.

Over a 5 year period, that's $250m vs $5m.
It takes you 50 years to get what they get in ONE. 04-jawdrop

it's impossible to compete against that.

like was mentioned earlier, App State did all they could. 12-1...beat TWO P5 programs. the end of year reward? UAB in a bowl game on December 21st. Not that exciting, i'm sorry.

i much prefer these win-or-go-home, do or die every week playoff runs. this could easily be our 3rd run in 4 years to the title game. Why would we think that will stop? it probably won't because we are the equivalent of a Clemson/Bama/OSU in FCS world and will keep the talent rolling in. And that makes it pretty fun.

and the notion that FCS is like watching HS ball. Give me a break. you all know better. There is some serious talent at the top 20 FCS level. You're best players in your program's history played as an FCS school. it's a stretch to act like this is pee wee ball compared to the G5.
12-18-2019 04:30 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 03:53 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  interesting perspective some of you are starting to have now.

although i agree with those of you who say at the time it was the right move, i also thinnk some of you are starting to see the light and realize that CUSA/SB/MAC isn't some utopia because you have an FBS label.

it's purgatory. Bottom line.

as for the bowl ratings, yes, maybe a bowl game has higher ratings than ONE FCS playoff game.....but we had 3 ESPN games in 2016 and 2017....2 so far this year....and the FCS title game is on ABC this year, not an ESPN network. Will be interesting to compare the ratings for that game in a few weeks vs these bowl games.

add the exposure of THREE ESPN games in a month, and that is far superior to 1 single bowl game that barely outdraws the fcs final.

Finally, someone put the correct analogy on everything. Nailed it.
12-18-2019 04:34 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 04:34 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 03:53 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  interesting perspective some of you are starting to have now.

although i agree with those of you who say at the time it was the right move, i also thinnk some of you are starting to see the light and realize that CUSA/SB/MAC isn't some utopia because you have an FBS label.

it's purgatory. Bottom line.

as for the bowl ratings, yes, maybe a bowl game has higher ratings than ONE FCS playoff game.....but we had 3 ESPN games in 2016 and 2017....2 so far this year....and the FCS title game is on ABC this year, not an ESPN network. Will be interesting to compare the ratings for that game in a few weeks vs these bowl games.

add the exposure of THREE ESPN games in a month, and that is far superior to 1 single bowl game that barely outdraws the fcs final.

Finally, someone put the correct analogy on everything. Nailed it.


yep. they even made a TV show about that place....it was called "Lost".
12-18-2019 04:39 PM
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RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 04:28 PM)AimHigh Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 02:42 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 02:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  But, DeMarco would have been back.....

Ignoring that Ong would have been back....

Ingoring we had Heinicke, they would have had a different backup QB

Ignoring that, I don't think UMASS comes back from 2 TD behind in the 2nd half to beat us.

Nova was terrible.....Richmond wasn't very good.

So hypothetically, how many games would our 4th string QB won...who knows, but the chances of him actually playing were slim. And if he did it would have only last a game or 2.

Heinicke was already third string. How would we have had a different backup than Ong?
We had no other QBs on the roster than Tyler Clark. He would have either been third or without TH we might have had another third. In no case can I see either third or forth as being another Heinicke.
Hell, we haven't been able to duplicate that even at FBS.


Huh?? UMASS did indeed come back, with 26 unanswered points from the 2nd half through the third quarter to take the lead - until we got the safety. It then took a typical Heinike performance in the 4th quarter to win that one.

Granted Nova was bad and UR was not good.
Still UR played us pretty well and I don't believe that Ong would have beaten them had he been back. Taylor's 3 TDs and 373 passing yards were the difference in that game.

Without Heinicke we still do not beat W&M or JMU

WHAT, our highly rated 3 star quarterback tommy reamon jr wasn't developed and waiting for his time to shine???? Dang Whitcomb 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot

I know he switched positions to TE 07-coffee3

Reamon was a real head scratcher. As a three star and #15 dual threat in the nation, he had all of the boxes checked. Athletic ability, size, intelligence, stellar HS stats and career, pedigree....
12-18-2019 04:42 PM
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