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Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
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ColumbusCard Offline
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Post: #121
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
Since 2010 the ACC representative to the Orange Bowl has been rated #13 or better in all but 1 matchup. All this handwringing and redundant warnings (if the ACC doesnt get its act together blah blah blah) seem much ado about nothing.
12-05-2019 09:58 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #122
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-05-2019 09:58 PM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  Since 2010 the ACC representative to the Orange Bowl has been rated #13 or better in all but 1 matchup. All this handwringing and redundant warnings (if the ACC doesnt get its act together blah blah blah) seem much ado about nothing.

And this year will be a 2nd. And then last year the ACC rep would have been 20th.

And the big thing is now this is 2 years in a row where ACC is 20 and either unranked or a mercy 25th rating.

This poor performance very similar to what happened in the early part of the 10's- which forced the ACC into a Jr. status contract quite frankly. There's a reason why they only get paid 27.5M a year while the other conferences get 40M.
12-05-2019 11:56 PM
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Post: #123
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
The fact is that TSISB is too arrogant to even join the ACC, one of the best conferences. As such, they should be out of luck.
12-06-2019 12:05 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #124
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-05-2019 12:15 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 12:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 12:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 11:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

But if the ACC keeps on providing unranked teams to the Orange Bowl, there could easily be a change by the Orange Bowl on their selecting process, protecting them in case of an unranked ACC non champion. The ACC doesn't hold all the leverage here at all...

Yes. Obviously, Hokie is correct that (a) the ACC will never have any interest in doing what we are suggesting, and (b) since the contract is in place until 2025, nothing will change before then.

But as you say, if this UVA situation becomes more than a one-shot aberration, the Orange Bowl likely will bargain to change the terms in the next contract, and like you, I think they might have the leverage to do it.

Hope the Orange Bowl enjoys slumming with the G5, because I feel sure the peach would be more than happy to take the ACC rep regardless just so they weren't stuck with the G5 rep every three years.

There's at least an even chance that the OB ratings will be worse than with the G5 team. I mean, Clemson is the only good team now.
12-06-2019 12:11 AM
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esayem Online
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Post: #125
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-05-2019 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 09:58 PM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  Since 2010 the ACC representative to the Orange Bowl has been rated #13 or better in all but 1 matchup. All this handwringing and redundant warnings (if the ACC doesnt get its act together blah blah blah) seem much ado about nothing.

And this year will be a 2nd. And then last year the ACC rep would have been 20th.

And the big thing is now this is 2 years in a row where ACC is 20 and either unranked or a mercy 25th rating.

This poor performance very similar to what happened in the early part of the 10's- which forced the ACC into a Jr. status contract quite frankly. There's a reason why they only get paid 27.5M a year while the other conferences get 40M.

The ACC appreciates your concern and files it in the trash. Thank you for your interest in the ACC.
12-06-2019 05:35 AM
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ColumbusCard Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-05-2019 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 09:58 PM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  Since 2010 the ACC representative to the Orange Bowl has been rated #13 or better in all but 1 matchup. All this handwringing and redundant warnings (if the ACC doesnt get its act together blah blah blah) seem much ado about nothing.

And this year will be a 2nd. And then last year the ACC rep would have been 20th.

And the big thing is now this is 2 years in a row where ACC is 20 and either unranked or a mercy 25th rating.

This poor performance very similar to what happened in the early part of the 10's- which forced the ACC into a Jr. status contract quite frankly. There's a reason why they only get paid 27.5M a year while the other conferences get 40M.
The second in 10 years, with the last one being 8 years ago.

Last year the OB was a semifinal, so none of that actually matters except to you it seems.


Hardly the sign of a trend, is what Im saying.

Also the "poor performance" that got the ACC that first undervalued contract was based off of 14 years of failure in BCS games, not 2 out of 10 with those 2 poor years set 8 years apart.


As Esayem said, thanks for your concern though
12-06-2019 07:05 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #127
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 07:05 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 09:58 PM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  Since 2010 the ACC representative to the Orange Bowl has been rated #13 or better in all but 1 matchup. All this handwringing and redundant warnings (if the ACC doesnt get its act together blah blah blah) seem much ado about nothing.

And this year will be a 2nd. And then last year the ACC rep would have been 20th.

And the big thing is now this is 2 years in a row where ACC is 20 and either unranked or a mercy 25th rating.

This poor performance very similar to what happened in the early part of the 10's- which forced the ACC into a Jr. status contract quite frankly. There's a reason why they only get paid 27.5M a year while the other conferences get 40M.
The second in 10 years, with the last one being 8 years ago.

Last year the OB was a semifinal, so none of that actually matters except to you it seems.


Hardly the sign of a trend, is what Im saying.

Also the "poor performance" that got the ACC that first undervalued contract was based off of 14 years of failure in BCS games, not 2 out of 10 with those 2 poor years set 8 years apart.


As Esayem said, thanks for your concern though

Just keep on having years like these last 2 and just see what the Orange Bowl does..

And it's not the ******* ACC's decision.... It's the Orange Bowl. If they don't want to be forced to take your 2nd place trash, they aren't going to. I could easily see something where if ND is 10 spots ahead of the ACC runner up- the Orange bowl takes ND instead of the ACC trash.
12-06-2019 07:33 AM
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Post: #128
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 07:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:05 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 09:58 PM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  Since 2010 the ACC representative to the Orange Bowl has been rated #13 or better in all but 1 matchup. All this handwringing and redundant warnings (if the ACC doesnt get its act together blah blah blah) seem much ado about nothing.

And this year will be a 2nd. And then last year the ACC rep would have been 20th.

And the big thing is now this is 2 years in a row where ACC is 20 and either unranked or a mercy 25th rating.

This poor performance very similar to what happened in the early part of the 10's- which forced the ACC into a Jr. status contract quite frankly. There's a reason why they only get paid 27.5M a year while the other conferences get 40M.
The second in 10 years, with the last one being 8 years ago.

Last year the OB was a semifinal, so none of that actually matters except to you it seems.


Hardly the sign of a trend, is what Im saying.

Also the "poor performance" that got the ACC that first undervalued contract was based off of 14 years of failure in BCS games, not 2 out of 10 with those 2 poor years set 8 years apart.


As Esayem said, thanks for your concern though

Just keep on having years like these last 2 and just see what the Orange Bowl does..

And it's not the ******* ACC's decision.... It's the Orange Bowl. If they don't want to be forced to take your 2nd place trash, they aren't going to. I could easily see something where if ND is 10 spots ahead of the ACC runner up- the Orange bowl takes ND instead of the ACC trash.
I take it you despise the ACC conference, stever20?
12-06-2019 08:27 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #129
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-05-2019 06:48 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 05:40 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 02:55 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 11:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

It's not about there ever being a "desire" by the ACC to share that spot. If the rest of the ACC doesn't get their act together once the contract runs out the Orange Bowl/Peach Bowl/whatever may very well insist they have the option to pick ND under certain situations. It's not like the ACC holds all the leverage here. From a purely ticket sales and national perception perspective getting like the 3rd choice from the B1G or SEC would probably be better for them than any non-Clemson ACC team, and with this dumb system they could conceivably "contract" with whoever they want.

Ok, I see where you're going with this... Sure, if ACC football continued to be a one-team show for many years, it will be in a weak position when the CFP is renegotiated. But that's the same with every conference. If they never have more than one ranked team they will have a hard time, too.

The problem for the ACC is that they are one of really only 2 conferences that get close to this- and the other one is the Pac 12 and they aren't losing the Rose Bowl.... I mean lets get real- the Big Ten, SEC, and really even Big 12 aren't going to have only 1 ranked team.

The other thing is the ACC doesn't have as many teams with gigantic fan bases like specifically the B1G and the SEC. In 2018 Clemson was the only team that averaged over 70k a game. The SEC had 8 teams that averaged over 70k and the B1G had 6 over that mark. That's actually the bigger issue for the ACC than a really down year. If you aren't getting Clemson as a bowl you'd probably do better financially to get the 4th or 5th pick from the SEC or B1G than the 2nd from the ACC.
12-06-2019 08:30 AM
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Post: #130
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 08:27 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:05 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 09:58 PM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  Since 2010 the ACC representative to the Orange Bowl has been rated #13 or better in all but 1 matchup. All this handwringing and redundant warnings (if the ACC doesnt get its act together blah blah blah) seem much ado about nothing.

And this year will be a 2nd. And then last year the ACC rep would have been 20th.

And the big thing is now this is 2 years in a row where ACC is 20 and either unranked or a mercy 25th rating.

This poor performance very similar to what happened in the early part of the 10's- which forced the ACC into a Jr. status contract quite frankly. There's a reason why they only get paid 27.5M a year while the other conferences get 40M.
The second in 10 years, with the last one being 8 years ago.

Last year the OB was a semifinal, so none of that actually matters except to you it seems.


Hardly the sign of a trend, is what Im saying.

Also the "poor performance" that got the ACC that first undervalued contract was based off of 14 years of failure in BCS games, not 2 out of 10 with those 2 poor years set 8 years apart.


As Esayem said, thanks for your concern though

Just keep on having years like these last 2 and just see what the Orange Bowl does..

And it's not the ******* ACC's decision.... It's the Orange Bowl. If they don't want to be forced to take your 2nd place trash, they aren't going to. I could easily see something where if ND is 10 spots ahead of the ACC runner up- the Orange bowl takes ND instead of the ACC trash.
I take it you despise the ACC conference, stever20?

I don't despise them, but I think they're overrated as hell.

And I think to act like the Orange would be ok with situations like this year- I just don't see it. And yes, even though the Orange hosted the playoff last year- the ACC's 2nd team would have bearing. These next 3-4 years are huge for the ACC- otherwise it's very possible to see the Orange putting in some paramiters for them.
12-06-2019 08:33 AM
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Post: #131
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 08:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 08:27 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:05 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  And this year will be a 2nd. And then last year the ACC rep would have been 20th.

And the big thing is now this is 2 years in a row where ACC is 20 and either unranked or a mercy 25th rating.

This poor performance very similar to what happened in the early part of the 10's- which forced the ACC into a Jr. status contract quite frankly. There's a reason why they only get paid 27.5M a year while the other conferences get 40M.
The second in 10 years, with the last one being 8 years ago.

Last year the OB was a semifinal, so none of that actually matters except to you it seems.


Hardly the sign of a trend, is what Im saying.

Also the "poor performance" that got the ACC that first undervalued contract was based off of 14 years of failure in BCS games, not 2 out of 10 with those 2 poor years set 8 years apart.


As Esayem said, thanks for your concern though

Just keep on having years like these last 2 and just see what the Orange Bowl does..

And it's not the ******* ACC's decision.... It's the Orange Bowl. If they don't want to be forced to take your 2nd place trash, they aren't going to. I could easily see something where if ND is 10 spots ahead of the ACC runner up- the Orange bowl takes ND instead of the ACC trash.
I take it you despise the ACC conference, stever20?

I don't despise them, but I think they're overrated as hell.

And I think to act like the Orange would be ok with situations like this year- I just don't see it. And yes, even though the Orange hosted the playoff last year- the ACC's 2nd team would have bearing. These next 3-4 years are huge for the ACC- otherwise it's very possible to see the Orange putting in some paramiters for them.

Once again, that's looking at everything in a vacuum.

A conference with Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and multiple flagship schools is *always* going to be a power conference. We can debate whether that conference is as valuable as the Big Ten or SEC, but at least in terms of the overall power structure of college football, the ACC is definitely a member.

So, if we grant that the ACC is a power conference and always will be with its current composition, then we need to look at the bigger picture. The value of the ACC tie-in isn't just about the specific team that the ACC sends to that bowl. Instead, the value of the ACC tie-in is also about (1) a guaranteed CFP semifinal every 3 years and (2) not having to separately bid for that CFP semifinal and a position in the New Years Six in the way that the access bowls need to do so.

The Peach Bowl, Citrus Bowl and Outback Bowl would ALL trade places with the Orange Bowl in a heartbeat. As a result, the Orange Bowl can dictate all that it wants, but the ACC could say, "F**k off, we're taking our tie-in to the Peach Bowl because they're not demanding any stipulations." THAT IS REAL AND LEGITIMATE LEVERAGE FOR THE ACC.

Then the Orange Bowl would have to enter into a separate rat race to stay within the CFP system and, even if they succeed in that rat race, get stuck with a G5 team every 3 years. From an elite bowl perspective, that is WAAAAAY worse than bringing in a very wealthy and powerful flagship University of Virginia fan base with strong ties to the political power base in Washington, DC in an "off year". UVA is a "worst case scenario" that any bowl besides the Rose and Sugar would sign up for. Once again, all of the access bowls and any bowl outside of the CFP system would trade places with the ACC in a heartbeat.

Everyone thinking that the ACC should unilaterally give up its rights are making the mistake once again that this is about a "What have you done for me lately?" meritocratic standard. That's totally wrong. This is about preserving a place in the power system, which is something that the ACC (as a power conference) grants *to* the Orange Bowl as opposed to the other way around.

Finally, I respectfully ask that everyone please stop this whole argument because you're putting me in a position of defending the ACC and that just feels wrong.
12-06-2019 09:28 AM
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Post: #132
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 08:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 08:27 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:05 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  And this year will be a 2nd. And then last year the ACC rep would have been 20th.

And the big thing is now this is 2 years in a row where ACC is 20 and either unranked or a mercy 25th rating.

This poor performance very similar to what happened in the early part of the 10's- which forced the ACC into a Jr. status contract quite frankly. There's a reason why they only get paid 27.5M a year while the other conferences get 40M.
The second in 10 years, with the last one being 8 years ago.

Last year the OB was a semifinal, so none of that actually matters except to you it seems.


Hardly the sign of a trend, is what Im saying.

Also the "poor performance" that got the ACC that first undervalued contract was based off of 14 years of failure in BCS games, not 2 out of 10 with those 2 poor years set 8 years apart.


As Esayem said, thanks for your concern though

Just keep on having years like these last 2 and just see what the Orange Bowl does..

And it's not the ******* ACC's decision.... It's the Orange Bowl. If they don't want to be forced to take your 2nd place trash, they aren't going to. I could easily see something where if ND is 10 spots ahead of the ACC runner up- the Orange bowl takes ND instead of the ACC trash.
I take it you despise the ACC conference, stever20?

I don't despise them, but I think they're overrated as hell.

And I think to act like the Orange would be ok with situations like this year- I just don't see it. And yes, even though the Orange hosted the playoff last year- the ACC's 2nd team would have bearing. These next 3-4 years are huge for the ACC- otherwise it's very possible to see the Orange putting in some paramiters for them.


So don't watch the game

If you really think the Orange Bowl people are going to be upset at UVA vs. Florida, you are insane

It looks better than what the Cotton has projected, which is Utah vs. Memphis
12-06-2019 10:16 AM
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cubucks Offline
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Post: #133
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 08:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 08:27 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:05 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  And this year will be a 2nd. And then last year the ACC rep would have been 20th.

And the big thing is now this is 2 years in a row where ACC is 20 and either unranked or a mercy 25th rating.

This poor performance very similar to what happened in the early part of the 10's- which forced the ACC into a Jr. status contract quite frankly. There's a reason why they only get paid 27.5M a year while the other conferences get 40M.
The second in 10 years, with the last one being 8 years ago.

Last year the OB was a semifinal, so none of that actually matters except to you it seems.


Hardly the sign of a trend, is what Im saying.

Also the "poor performance" that got the ACC that first undervalued contract was based off of 14 years of failure in BCS games, not 2 out of 10 with those 2 poor years set 8 years apart.


As Esayem said, thanks for your concern though

Just keep on having years like these last 2 and just see what the Orange Bowl does..

And it's not the ******* ACC's decision.... It's the Orange Bowl. If they don't want to be forced to take your 2nd place trash, they aren't going to. I could easily see something where if ND is 10 spots ahead of the ACC runner up- the Orange bowl takes ND instead of the ACC trash.
I take it you despise the ACC conference, stever20?

I don't despise them, but I think they're overrated as hell.

And I think to act like the Orange would be ok with situations like this year- I just don't see it. And yes, even though the Orange hosted the playoff last year- the ACC's 2nd team would have bearing. These next 3-4 years are huge for the ACC- otherwise it's very possible to see the Orange putting in some paramiters for them.
Fair enough, you have your opinions and I respect that.

During the playoff era has the ACC post season win % been comparable to the other P5 conferences? I think it has? I know you're talking strictly Orange Bowl and the value of the team representing the ACC in that bowl. I just feel the ACC has represented well in the entirety of bowl games during the CFP era.

Clemson is currently in the middle of a "dynasty" era, if you don't believe me the angry "Hungarian Tiger" well remind you. They are a few levels better than their peers, but why are the others not entitled to the OB in your eyes? The OB has a contractual obligation to the ACC and I think Virginia will represent well.

Frank the Tank mentioned it's hard to have to defend the ACC and I agree, lol. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal this year?
12-06-2019 10:33 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #134
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 10:16 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 08:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 08:27 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:05 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  The second in 10 years, with the last one being 8 years ago.

Last year the OB was a semifinal, so none of that actually matters except to you it seems.


Hardly the sign of a trend, is what Im saying.

Also the "poor performance" that got the ACC that first undervalued contract was based off of 14 years of failure in BCS games, not 2 out of 10 with those 2 poor years set 8 years apart.


As Esayem said, thanks for your concern though

Just keep on having years like these last 2 and just see what the Orange Bowl does..

And it's not the ******* ACC's decision.... It's the Orange Bowl. If they don't want to be forced to take your 2nd place trash, they aren't going to. I could easily see something where if ND is 10 spots ahead of the ACC runner up- the Orange bowl takes ND instead of the ACC trash.
I take it you despise the ACC conference, stever20?

I don't despise them, but I think they're overrated as hell.

And I think to act like the Orange would be ok with situations like this year- I just don't see it. And yes, even though the Orange hosted the playoff last year- the ACC's 2nd team would have bearing. These next 3-4 years are huge for the ACC- otherwise it's very possible to see the Orange putting in some paramiters for them.


So don't watch the game

If you really think the Orange Bowl people are going to be upset at UVA vs. Florida, you are insane

It looks better than what the Cotton has projected, which is Utah vs. Memphis

If Utah loses to Oregon, they are going to drop more than Alabama did. Utah has ZERO top 25 wins.
12-06-2019 10:36 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #135
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 09:28 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  ...I respectfully ask that everyone please stop this whole argument because you're putting me in a position of defending the ACC and that just feels wrong.

On behalf of ACC fans everywhere, I'd like to thank Mr. Tank for his support.
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12-06-2019 10:54 AM
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RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 12:05 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  The fact is that TSISB is too arrogant to even join the ACC, one of the best conferences. As such, they should be out of luck.


Again, this isn't anything that ND wants or is trying to do.

They aren't suggesting this, someone else is.

Champs Sports Bowl it is. No problem.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2019 10:57 AM by TerryD.)
12-06-2019 10:56 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 08:30 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  The other thing is the ACC doesn't have as many teams with gigantic fan bases like specifically the B1G and the SEC. In 2018 Clemson was the only team that averaged over 70k a game. The SEC had 8 teams that averaged over 70k and the B1G had 6 over that mark. That's actually the bigger issue for the ACC than a really down year. If you aren't getting Clemson as a bowl you'd probably do better financially to get the 4th or 5th pick from the SEC or B1G than the 2nd from the ACC.

Virginia Tech can sell out every home game from now until the end of time and still not average 70K because the stadium only seats 66,233... That doesn't mean the Hokies can't fill up a bowl game, though. In fact, there are only 2 ACC teams with stadiums that have 70K+ seating capacities: Clemson 81,500; Florida State 79,560. That's one reason why using regular season attendance averages can be very misleading - you really need to look at how many fans each team brings to the bowl game itself.
12-06-2019 10:59 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #138
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 10:33 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 08:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 08:27 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:05 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  The second in 10 years, with the last one being 8 years ago.

Last year the OB was a semifinal, so none of that actually matters except to you it seems.


Hardly the sign of a trend, is what Im saying.

Also the "poor performance" that got the ACC that first undervalued contract was based off of 14 years of failure in BCS games, not 2 out of 10 with those 2 poor years set 8 years apart.


As Esayem said, thanks for your concern though

Just keep on having years like these last 2 and just see what the Orange Bowl does..

And it's not the ******* ACC's decision.... It's the Orange Bowl. If they don't want to be forced to take your 2nd place trash, they aren't going to. I could easily see something where if ND is 10 spots ahead of the ACC runner up- the Orange bowl takes ND instead of the ACC trash.
I take it you despise the ACC conference, stever20?

I don't despise them, but I think they're overrated as hell.

And I think to act like the Orange would be ok with situations like this year- I just don't see it. And yes, even though the Orange hosted the playoff last year- the ACC's 2nd team would have bearing. These next 3-4 years are huge for the ACC- otherwise it's very possible to see the Orange putting in some paramiters for them.
Fair enough, you have your opinions and I respect that.

During the playoff era has the ACC post season win % been comparable to the other P5 conferences? I think it has? I know you're talking strictly Orange Bowl and the value of the team representing the ACC in that bowl. I just feel the ACC has represented well in the entirety of bowl games during the CFP era.

Clemson is currently in the middle of a "dynasty" era, if you don't believe me the angry "Hungarian Tiger" well remind you. They are a few levels better than their peers, but why are the others not entitled to the OB in your eyes? The OB has a contractual obligation to the ACC and I think Virginia will represent well.

Frank the Tank mentioned it's hard to have to defend the ACC and I agree, lol. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal this year?

I am just saying that this is now a 2 year trend of having 2nd team being only 20 or unranked- that's not good for the ACC. If they want their lot to improve at all even- they have to get back to sending top 15 teams to the game. I would think the ACC would want to get to make 40M in the Orange Bowl. That's not happening unless they start to perform....
12-06-2019 11:02 AM
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Post: #139
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 09:28 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 08:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 08:27 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 07:05 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  The second in 10 years, with the last one being 8 years ago.

Last year the OB was a semifinal, so none of that actually matters except to you it seems.


Hardly the sign of a trend, is what Im saying.

Also the "poor performance" that got the ACC that first undervalued contract was based off of 14 years of failure in BCS games, not 2 out of 10 with those 2 poor years set 8 years apart.


As Esayem said, thanks for your concern though

Just keep on having years like these last 2 and just see what the Orange Bowl does..

And it's not the ******* ACC's decision.... It's the Orange Bowl. If they don't want to be forced to take your 2nd place trash, they aren't going to. I could easily see something where if ND is 10 spots ahead of the ACC runner up- the Orange bowl takes ND instead of the ACC trash.
I take it you despise the ACC conference, stever20?

I don't despise them, but I think they're overrated as hell.

And I think to act like the Orange would be ok with situations like this year- I just don't see it. And yes, even though the Orange hosted the playoff last year- the ACC's 2nd team would have bearing. These next 3-4 years are huge for the ACC- otherwise it's very possible to see the Orange putting in some paramiters for them.

Once again, that's looking at everything in a vacuum.

A conference with Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and multiple flagship schools is *always* going to be a power conference. We can debate whether that conference is as valuable as the Big Ten or SEC, but at least in terms of the overall power structure of college football, the ACC is definitely a member.

So, if we grant that the ACC is a power conference and always will be with its current composition, then we need to look at the bigger picture. The value of the ACC tie-in isn't just about the specific team that the ACC sends to that bowl. Instead, the value of the ACC tie-in is also about (1) a guaranteed CFP semifinal every 3 years and (2) not having to separately bid for that CFP semifinal and a position in the New Years Six in the way that the access bowls need to do so.

The Peach Bowl, Citrus Bowl and Outback Bowl would ALL trade places with the Orange Bowl in a heartbeat. As a result, the Orange Bowl can dictate all that it wants, but the ACC could say, "F**k off, we're taking our tie-in to the Peach Bowl because they're not demanding any stipulations." THAT IS REAL AND LEGITIMATE LEVERAGE FOR THE ACC.

Then the Orange Bowl would have to enter into a separate rat race to stay within the CFP system and, even if they succeed in that rat race, get stuck with a G5 team every 3 years. From an elite bowl perspective, that is WAAAAAY worse than bringing in a very wealthy and powerful flagship University of Virginia fan base with strong ties to the political power base in Washington, DC in an "off year". UVA is a "worst case scenario" that any bowl besides the Rose and Sugar would sign up for. Once again, all of the access bowls and any bowl outside of the CFP system would trade places with the ACC in a heartbeat.

Everyone thinking that the ACC should unilaterally give up its rights are making the mistake once again that this is about a "What have you done for me lately?" meritocratic standard. That's totally wrong. This is about preserving a place in the power system, which is something that the ACC (as a power conference) grants *to* the Orange Bowl as opposed to the other way around.

Finally, I respectfully ask that everyone please stop this whole argument because you're putting me in a position of defending the ACC and that just feels wrong.

I don't think the Peach though would just automatically take the ACC. They've gotten either SEC or Florida St every single year.... Think about that.

I also think there is far less of a rat race for the 3 access bowls. The Peach, Cotton, and Fiesta are going no where...

Also, the ACC didn't exactly get an equal treatment with the Orange Bowl. The Orange demanded to get SEC/Big Ten/ND team and with the SEC/Big Ten- gave them the exact same payout for their 2nd(3rd) place team- as the ACC rep. And yet the ACC took that.
12-06-2019 11:06 AM
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RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-06-2019 10:33 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Frank the Tank mentioned it's hard to have to defend the ACC and I agree, lol. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal this year?

Because it is unprecedented that an unranked P5 team is going to play in a CFP contract bowl. That should never happen.

Heck, we've never had an unranked G5 team in an NY6 bowl, and won't again this year.

It should be against the CFP rules for any unranked team that is not a conference champ to be in an NY6 bowl. And that shouldn't be specific to the ACC, it should apply to every conference.
12-06-2019 12:19 PM
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