(11-27-2019 03:15 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

good tourney. Arizona, Texas Tech, Cincy, and St John's.

Keep posting, S20. I like it.

(11-27-2019 03:57 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Belmont will face quite a challenge in this tourney. Good thing most of the best Bruins from this year's team will be back next season.

(11-27-2019 04:06 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 03:57 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Belmont will face quite a challenge in this tourney. Good thing most of the best Bruins from this year's team will be back next season.

they'll get Michigan St or Gonzaga in rd 1 you would think... Xavier probably sees either Saint Louis or Boise State in round 1.

(11-27-2019 04:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 04:06 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 03:57 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Belmont will face quite a challenge in this tourney. Good thing most of the best Bruins from this year's team will be back next season.

they'll get Michigan St or Gonzaga in rd 1 you would think... Xavier probably sees either Saint Louis or Boise State in round 1.

Yep. That sounds like the scenario. A nice-looking tourney based on participants. Lots of "basketball schools."

saw this. not sure how the AAC gets 2 teams in- unless Wichita must have been in prior to joining the AAC-

(11-29-2019 05:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  saw this. not sure how the AAC gets 2 teams in- unless Wichita must have been in prior to joining the AAC-

Good point. None of the tourneys of this type invite more than one program from any one league.

(11-29-2019 05:39 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(11-29-2019 05:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  saw this. not sure how the AAC gets 2 teams in- unless Wichita must have been in prior to joining the AAC-

Good point. None of the tourneys of this type invite more than one program from any one league.

I know year 1 Georgetown and Butler were in tournament together due to Butler just joining Big East.

it's funny, the one tournament that the Big East never participates in that I'm a little bit surprised is the Diamond-Head one in Hawaii around Christmas... Guess DePaul did a few years ago...

next year they have Arizona State, Oklahoma, Temple, San Diego State, Saint Mary's, Western Michigan, Seattle, and Hawaii.... Quite possibly 5 NCAA tourney teams(and could get 6 if Hawaii goes). There are definitely a lot worse tournaments.

(12-04-2019 10:03 AM)stever20 Wrote:  it's funny, the one tournament that the Big East never participates in that I'm a little bit surprised is the Diamond-Head one in Hawaii around Christmas... Guess DePaul did a few years ago...

next year they have Arizona State, Oklahoma, Temple, San Diego State, Saint Mary's, Western Michigan, Seattle, and Hawaii.... Quite possibly 5 NCAA tourney teams(and could get 6 if Hawaii goes). There are definitely a lot worse tournaments.

It's not surprising at all if you look at past participants.

The SEC and B1G rarely, if ever, participate in it at all either. Below is a tally since 2014.

ACC: 2
B1G: 1
Big East: 1 (DePaul, as you mentioned)
Big 12: 3
PAC: 5
SEC: 1
AAC: 2
A10: 3
C-USA: 4
MAC: 3
MWC: 4
WCC: 4
WAC: 1
Ivy: 2
Big West: 6
Southland: 1
MVC: 3
Patriot: 1

Hawaii is in it every year, naturally. There regularly is a WCC, C-USA and MWC team in annually, along with a combination of representatives from the A10, MAC and MVC. From the power conferences, look at the representatives:

Nebraska (2014)
DePaul (2014)
Auburn (2015)
Oklahoma (2015)
Utah (2016)
Miami (2017)
USC (2017)
Colorado (2018)
TCU (2018)

Aside from the distance, the lack of regular involvement from the B1G, SEC and ACC, and the new BE-Big 12 Battle, there is little-to-any incentive from the Big East wanting to send any of its teams to this particular tournament annually. It is composed mostly of West Coast Schools from smaller, non-power conferences. The power conference teams that are sent don't really make it worth it for fans to travel all the way out to Hawaii either.

This year, the Big East was involved with the following tournaments:
Battle 4 Atlantis (Seton Hall)
CBE Hall of Fame Classic - Kansas City (Butler)
Charleston Classic (Xavier)
Empire Classic - New York City (Georgetown)
Hall of Fame Tip Off - Connecticut (St. John's)
Las Vegas Invitational (Creighton)
Myrtle Beach Invitational (Villanova)
Orlando Invitational (Marquette)
Wooden Legacy - Anaheim (Providence)

Again, I just don't see the incentive/value from the schools' perspective. We are already getting into good/quality tournaments without the need to travel to Hawaii to do so.

Yup, hard pass on Diamondhead.

This probably doesn't totally belong in this thread, but the overall point it's getting at does. With the big-money conferences increasingly going to 20 games, and with the proliferation of conference challenges and early-season tournaments, it's going to get harder and harder for teams to fill out their OOC slate with attractive games. There was an article before the season where the MW commissioner was quoted essentially saying that some of his teams were down to the wire simply securing opponents of any type and the scarcity was driving up the price of low-major buy games, stretching budgets. Glad the Big East is going to be starting from a position of 20 good games and one or two challenge games. Couple that with an early-season tournament and everyone's starting off with a solid 23-25 game slate. Makes me wonder if the PAC is second-guessing passing up on a challenge with this conference. Also makes me wonder if this would make it easier to secure a scheduling agreement with Gonzaga.

(12-05-2019 10:51 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

This probably doesn't totally belong in this thread, but the overall point it's getting at does. With the big-money conferences increasingly going to 20 games, and with the proliferation of conference challenges and early-season tournaments, it's going to get harder and harder for teams to fill out their OOC slate with attractive games. There was an article before the season where the MW commissioner was quoted essentially saying that some of his teams were down to the wire simply securing opponents of any type and the scarcity was driving up the price of low-major buy games, stretching budgets. Glad the Big East is going to be starting from a position of 20 good games and one or two challenge games. Couple that with an early-season tournament and everyone's starting off with a solid 23-25 game slate. Makes me wonder if the PAC is second-guessing passing up on a challenge with this conference. Also makes me wonder if this would make it easier to secure a scheduling agreement with Gonzaga.

FWIW, it was rumored the PAC-Big East Challenge failed to cross the goal line was because UCLA and Arizona wanted no part of it, and any challenge without those two involved would not be beneficial to the BE at all.

Even before UConn's return to the Big East, there was already a pretty clear separation from the top six conferences in terms of success, bids, recognition and brand awareness; with UConn choosing to leave the AAC for the Big East, it has really only cemented that IMO.

Sorry but I think the AAC is still going to be fine. The AAC can get opponents a whole hell of a lot easier than the MWC can due to location. They have split from the other leagues as well. Maybe not on the level of the others- but still a split for sure.

I don't see the NCAA tourney selection process all of a sudden taking a bunch of mediocre 17-15 teams- which would happen as a result of the 20 conference game season. I mean take the Big Ten today. Everyone thinks they are so great....

Big Ten has 6 teams with 3-4 losses OOC already.... or take Iowa. 6-2 right now. Say they go 10-10 in conference play that's 16-12. Still have 1 easy OOC game, but then 2 with Iowa St and Cincy. A Split there and they are 18-13 and totally on the bubble at that point.

I think the 2 leagues that the 20 game schedules hurt the most- MWC and WCC..... Going to see I think a lot more games between those 2 leagues.... Especially the WCC given they went down to 16 conference games.

(12-05-2019 11:51 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Sorry but I think the AAC is still going to be fine. The AAC can get opponents a whole hell of a lot easier than the MWC can due to location. They have split from the other leagues as well. Maybe not on the level of the others- but still a split for sure.

Like all things related to AAC basketball, there are going to be tiers to it. The top end of the AAC will fill out a schedule fine, but the bottom end is likely to have a tougher go of things. The tendency to have a heavy bottom has been the AAC's biggest issue, and this won't help. Really wasn't trying to turn this into an AAC-specific thing though. Just happy about UConn joining up and the new Big 12 arrangement adding three good games to everyone's schedule.

(12-05-2019 03:47 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:51 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Sorry but I think the AAC is still going to be fine. The AAC can get opponents a whole hell of a lot easier than the MWC can due to location. They have split from the other leagues as well. Maybe not on the level of the others- but still a split for sure.

Like all things related to AAC basketball, there are going to be tiers to it. The top end of the AAC will fill out a schedule fine, but the bottom end is likely to have a tougher go of things. The tendency to have a heavy bottom has been the AAC's biggest issue, and this won't help. Really wasn't trying to turn this into an AAC-specific thing though. Just happy about UConn joining up and the new Big 12 arrangement adding three good games to everyone's schedule.

"The top end of the AAC will fill out a schedule fine, but the bottom end is likely to have a tougher go of things. The tendency to have a heavy bottom has been the AAC's biggest issue, and this won't help."

Well put, Bogg. Agree fully.

The AAC bottom has clearly improved... OK, maybe not ECU, but Tulane hired Ron Hunter and they are 6-1 right now. USF won the CBI last year. SMU is 8-0 and playing with a full roster for first time in years.

(12-05-2019 03:47 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:51 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Sorry but I think the AAC is still going to be fine. The AAC can get opponents a whole hell of a lot easier than the MWC can due to location. They have split from the other leagues as well. Maybe not on the level of the others- but still a split for sure.

Like all things related to AAC basketball, there are going to be tiers to it. The top end of the AAC will fill out a schedule fine, but the bottom end is likely to have a tougher go of things. The tendency to have a heavy bottom has been the AAC's biggest issue, and this won't help. Really wasn't trying to turn this into an AAC-specific thing though. Just happy about UConn joining up and the new Big 12 arrangement adding three good games to everyone's schedule.

Depends on how you view "fine".

When the separation occurred, UConn and Louisville - two name brand, championship-level basketball programs - were naturally highlighted and utilized as the focal points of a new power basketball league (the AAC). Louisville left after just one season (many college basketball fans don't even remember/recognize that UL was in the AAC for a year). Replacing them were East Carolina, Tulane and Tulsa, two of whom were/are considered radically and historically weak programs with little-to-no postseason success or history.

Due to the bottom of the AAC (by perception) dragging down the top, the league added Wichita State. However, with UConn now leaving, the league - as previously and repeatedly noted - has zero programs that have won (Cincinnati), or played for (legitimately), a national championship since the 80's (Houston), and has half of the conference that has not made a Sweet 16 or better in the past thirty years (UCF, USF, ECU, Tulane, SMU). In addition, a majority of the league is composed of institutions where basketball is not the priority, and routinely gets overlooked and overshadowed by other sports in their respective market.

There are no programs available for expansion (assuming the league even goes and gets another non-football member, which - IMO - is unlikely) that replaces what was/is lost with Louisville and UConn, no matter what metrics one wants to use to argue otherwise. There are, however, programs that can strengthen the middle and somewhat conceal the dead weight that is routinely showed at the bottom of the league. I have strong doubts the AAC will add other non-football members, as they have prioritized football first schools in big markets.

For a league that stresses it is one of the "big boys", and will do anything the power leagues do, the AAC is now left behind of the 20-game push by the power basketball conferences, and will continue with (most likely) an 18-game schedule (that will feature more league games against the likes of UCF, USF, Tulane and ECU).

For the life of me, I still cannot understand or rationalize why East Carolina, Tulane and Tulsa were quickly added to the AAC in 2013. But, that is why the C7 (and UConn) chose to bolt and reform the Big East I guess.

What is funny to me is that, this summer, everyone was making fun of UConn having to travel and play a program like DePaul (who, was argued, no different than an ECU or a Tulane, etc.). DePaul is now 9-0 and ranked higher than a majority of the AAC.

But we have yet to see just how big of a deal 20 game schedules are.... We do not have any idea if the selection committee is going to all of a sudden take 17-15 teams in the tourney. Historically that's been a hard no. Last year Indiana was 17-15 and missed the tourney. Nebraska 18-16 and missed. So how exactly did the 20 game schedule help?