The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(12-04-2019 10:20 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Besides Nathan Knight, who have they had thats better than what ODU has rolled out the past 5-10 years? Assuming them meant plural

Marcus Thornton

(12-04-2019 06:41 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 04:20 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 02:13 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 12:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 12:07 PM)odu09 Wrote:  If you could have Robinson on this team right now, would you take him?

The answer should be yes. Kalu isn't improving and Dickens can't hang. AC is just a smaller Robinson.

I would certainly take Robinson over a couple scholarships that we have on the roster this year but would it make an impact on the team....no.

LOL. Sure it would make an impact on the team this year. It would take Dickens out of the starting lineup and send him to the bench same as it did last season.

Since you love stats, here's some head to head stats for comparison -

Robinson - 9 minutes, 2.3 points, 2.1 rebounds, 53.3% shooting.
Dickens - 15.6 minutes, 3.3 points, 2.3 rebounds, 44.4% shooting.
Ezikpe - 14.4 minutes, 5.2 points, 3.2 rebounds, 43.2 % shooting.

Not a lot of difference in the "stats". Only thing is that Robinson did most all of his against the starters of the other team whereas the other two guys came off the bench. Robinson shot a much higher percentage, and managed comparable scoring and rebounding averages in far less time on the court.

I'd also point out that if he played on this season's team he would probably have a higher scoring average since he would not be playing as only the 3rd or 4th scoring option behind BJ and Caver who collectively averaged 33.4 points on a low scoring team. The shots and points are there to be had this season for Dickens and Ezikpe. They just aren't taking advantage of it well enough. I'm sure Jeff wishes they COULD score more than they are.

So what does being the 7th scoring option on a low scoring team get you?

Don't get all the focus on bigs. They have never played a meaningful role on any of JJ's teams. Stats or not, the reason we are bad this year has nothing to do with the loss of Robinson, or the lack of offensive production in the post.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

I respect your opinion but I respectfully disagree with some of your statement. I agree our scoring problems have nothing ( or little) to do with Robinson leaving. However I think our lack of production has a lot to do with our post scoring. BJ Stith did not play center but he played the 4 a lot and he scored a ton of points off curls in or around the paint. That opened up the outside game for us. I bet if you could compare the three point attempts X is getting right now compared to last year they are twice as hard. It’s not all because he is the main guy and it’s not because he is worse than last year. Part of it is because there is nobody down low scoring the ball, regardless of whether it is a center or power forward.
In the NCAA last year against Purdue our offense looked horrible and a lot to do with BJ having a slump at a bad time. But he was basically the only weapon we had last year that could score in the paint and it created all kinds of problems when he didn’t do that. In today’s game you don’t necessarily need a Gerald Lee to post up but you at least need somebody that can score with ease in the paint. BJ could do that.
I know I for one overestimated ( at least early on) what Kalu or Dickens would produce in the paint. I pictured Kalu as a guy that would not necessarily post up but would hit the 8-10 foot jumper with ease. That hasn’t happened. If that does start to click or the light comes on for Dickens I think we will see Godwin, X, Oliver, get some wide open looks they will knock down. Right now Godwin and X have guys all over them. Some type of low post scoring could turn that around. We need that to happen soon.

Don't have exact numbers but I think you would be surprise with how few of BJs points came "inside the paint." Not completely apple to apples, but BJ only had about 17% of his shots at the rim, which was by far the lowest on the team outside of Godwin.

BJ's shots were all 3s (39% of shots) and jumpers.

WE don't need a post up scorer (the number of guys that efficiently work on the low block is extremely low). The best scoring teams don't post up. Having said that, the big guys can do better scoring in the paint...PNRs, better movement/cuts, actually converting a putback, etc.

(12-04-2019 08:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 08:22 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 07:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 07:20 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 06:41 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Don't get all the focus on bigs. They have never played a meaningful role on any of JJ's teams. Stats or not, the reason we are bad this year has nothing to do with the loss of Robinson, or the lack of offensive production in the post.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Just after last season ended Jeff was on the radio with Ted and Dave talking about ODU going forward towards this current season. Jeff stated that "we need to improve our post presence next season". But what does he know about it, right?

As it stands today, it appears that it went in the opposite direction, unless you consider replacing his senior starter with a smaller, freshman, foreigner that is too injured to play at all as being an improvement.

Improving the post presence after losing Robinson is a tall task!

Apparently it was a Tall Task, lol. Can't do it playing 6'-7" Carver there - or is that really 6'-5" Carver?

Why not? Carver has been much better this year than Robinson was last year.

Even if that was true it doesn't matter as it is comparing apples and oranges. Robinson is a center. Carver is not. Oh, I forgot. You like that really small ball basketball where everybody is running around jacking up lots and lots of 3's. ODU threw up 20 of them Tuesday night against a team that has owned them under the Jeff Jones era. How'd that work out?

(12-04-2019 10:57 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 08:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 08:22 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 07:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 07:20 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Just after last season ended Jeff was on the radio with Ted and Dave talking about ODU going forward towards this current season. Jeff stated that "we need to improve our post presence next season". But what does he know about it, right?

As it stands today, it appears that it went in the opposite direction, unless you consider replacing his senior starter with a smaller, freshman, foreigner that is too injured to play at all as being an improvement.

Improving the post presence after losing Robinson is a tall task!

Apparently it was a Tall Task, lol. Can't do it playing 6'-7" Carver there - or is that really 6'-5" Carver?

Why not? Carver has been much better this year than Robinson was last year.

Even if that was true it doesn't matter as it is comparing apples and oranges. Robinson is a center. Carver is not. Oh, I forgot. You like that really small ball basketball where everybody is running around jacking up lots and lots of 3's. ODU threw up 20 of them Tuesday night against a team that has owned them under the Jeff Jones era. How'd that work out?

There isn’t a stat on earth that will answer this question correctly because it doesn’t exist.

Odus best teams ever all had strong back to the basket forwards and centers.

PERIOD. No amount of absurd statistical obfuscation will change this fact.

(12-04-2019 10:45 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Don't have exact numbers but I think you would be surprise with how few of BJs points came "inside the paint." Not completely apple to apples, but BJ only had about 17% of his shots at the rim, which was by far the lowest on the team outside of Godwin.

BJ's shots were all 3s (39% of shots) and jumpers.

WE don't need a post up scorer (the number of guys that efficiently work on the low block is extremely low). The best scoring teams don't post up. Having said that, the big guys can do better scoring in the paint...PNRs, better movement/cuts, actually converting a putback, etc.

Banging that drum again? When exactly was the last time you have seen ODU listed among the "best scoring teams"? They have been doing great in recent years when they have surpassed 65 points in a game. Sell it to Jeff then come back and tell us all about it. In case you have yet to notice, that is not the style of play that he recruits players for, coaches, or has the team play. We aren't VCU, and aren't likely to be as long as Jeff is sitting on the ODU bench. For that matter, even VCU has had post up scorers, but of course you disagree I'm sure.

Carver actually plays as the only frontcourt player at times, FWIW.

I don't particularly like small ball basketball, I like whatever helps winning. We score better on 3 point shots than we do 2 point shots, even with the horrendous shooting last night. Our biggest problem on offense is is so reliant on long 2s and don't shoot enough 3s.

(12-04-2019 11:10 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 10:57 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 08:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 08:22 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 07:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Improving the post presence after losing Robinson is a tall task!

Apparently it was a Tall Task, lol. Can't do it playing 6'-7" Carver there - or is that really 6'-5" Carver?

Why not? Carver has been much better this year than Robinson was last year.

Even if that was true it doesn't matter as it is comparing apples and oranges. Robinson is a center. Carver is not. Oh, I forgot. You like that really small ball basketball where everybody is running around jacking up lots and lots of 3's. ODU threw up 20 of them Tuesday night against a team that has owned them under the Jeff Jones era. How'd that work out?

There isn’t a stat on earth that will answer this question correctly because it doesn’t exist.

Odus best teams ever all had strong back to the basket forwards and centers.

PERIOD. No amount of absurd statistical obfuscation will change this fact.

^^^^ FACT ^^^^

(12-04-2019 11:12 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 10:45 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Don't have exact numbers but I think you would be surprise with how few of BJs points came "inside the paint." Not completely apple to apples, but BJ only had about 17% of his shots at the rim, which was by far the lowest on the team outside of Godwin.

BJ's shots were all 3s (39% of shots) and jumpers.

WE don't need a post up scorer (the number of guys that efficiently work on the low block is extremely low). The best scoring teams don't post up. Having said that, the big guys can do better scoring in the paint...PNRs, better movement/cuts, actually converting a putback, etc.

Banging that drum again? When exactly was the last time you have seen ODU listed among the "best scoring teams"? They have been doing great in recent years when they have surpassed 65 points in a game. Sell it to Jeff then come back and tell us all about it. In case you have yet to notice, that is not the style of play that he recruits players for, coaches, or has the team play. We aren't VCU, and aren't likely to be as long as Jeff is sitting on the ODU bench. For that matter, even VCU has had post up scorers, but of course you disagree I'm sure.

When have I ever said we have a good offense? We've never had better than an above average offense under Jones (103 in 2018 and 124 in 2015). We obviously win with defense.

FWIW, VCU has been 149 and 177 on offense over the past 2 years. They are also a team that wins with defense. There offense has been better this year in a small sample (68) but thats because they've shot the ball well from 3.

(12-04-2019 11:14 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 11:10 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 10:57 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 08:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 08:22 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Apparently it was a Tall Task, lol. Can't do it playing 6'-7" Carver there - or is that really 6'-5" Carver?

Why not? Carver has been much better this year than Robinson was last year.

Even if that was true it doesn't matter as it is comparing apples and oranges. Robinson is a center. Carver is not. Oh, I forgot. You like that really small ball basketball where everybody is running around jacking up lots and lots of 3's. ODU threw up 20 of them Tuesday night against a team that has owned them under the Jeff Jones era. How'd that work out?

There isn’t a stat on earth that will answer this question correctly because it doesn’t exist.

Odus best teams ever all had strong back to the basket forwards and centers.

PERIOD. No amount of absurd statistical obfuscation will change this fact.

^^^^ FACT ^^^^

ODUs "best" teams also never had a good offense. They won with defense.

And it was also a different brand of game 10 years ago before people started understanding what efficient offense meant.

(12-04-2019 11:14 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Carver actually plays as the only frontcourt player at times, FWIW.

I don't particularly like small ball basketball, I like whatever helps winning. We score better on 3 point shots than we do 2 point shots, even with the horrendous shooting last night. Our biggest problem on offense is is so reliant on long 2s and don't shoot enough 3s.

3's work if they are in the context of the teams offense. If the team has the right players to successfully make 3's. If the team spends significant time practicing shooting 3's.

ODU was 2 for 20 against W & M Tuesday night from beyond the arc. I believe they shot a total of 63 shots from the floor that game. Had ALL of their 63 shots been from beyond the arc they would have scored a grand total of maybe 6 field goals (or 18 points) from the field if they shot at the same rate. Add in their 8 made foul shots and they would have had a total of 26 points. That is of course assuming they got to the foul line enough to make 8 foul shots as not taking it inside usually means you don't draw as many fouls. Those are simply the numbers of what might have happened had ODU shot lots and lots of 3's Tuesday night.

It's great when a team is hitting them, but when they are not it is just a bunch of one and done's.

I would LOVE to see ODU play the style of play that VCU does, and shoot more 3's - especially if they recruited players to fit that style. They don't and they don't.

(12-04-2019 11:27 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 11:14 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Carver actually plays as the only frontcourt player at times, FWIW.

I don't particularly like small ball basketball, I like whatever helps winning. We score better on 3 point shots than we do 2 point shots, even with the horrendous shooting last night. Our biggest problem on offense is is so reliant on long 2s and don't shoot enough 3s.

3's work if they are in the context of the teams offense. If the team has the right players to successfully make 3's. If the team spends significant time practicing shooting 3's.

ODU was 2 for 20 against W & M Tuesday night from beyond the arc. I believe they shot a total of 63 shots from the floor that game. Had ALL of their 63 shots been from beyond the arc they would have scored a grand total of maybe 6 field goals (or 18 points) from the field if they shot at the same rate. Add in their 8 made foul shots and they would have had a total of 26 points. That is of course assuming they got to the foul line enough to make 8 foul shots as not taking it inside usually means you don't draw as many fouls. Those are simply the numbers of what might have happened had ODU shot lots and lots of 3's Tuesday night.

It's great when a team is hitting them, but when they are not it is just a bunch of one and done's.

I would LOVE to see ODU play the style of play that VCU does, and shoot more 3's - especially if they recruited players to fit that style. They don't and they don't.

I never thought of that.....you are absolutely correct. It is good when a team makes shots and bad when the miss. I never thought of that.

(12-04-2019 11:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 11:14 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 11:10 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 10:57 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 08:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Why not? Carver has been much better this year than Robinson was last year.

Even if that was true it doesn't matter as it is comparing apples and oranges. Robinson is a center. Carver is not. Oh, I forgot. You like that really small ball basketball where everybody is running around jacking up lots and lots of 3's. ODU threw up 20 of them Tuesday night against a team that has owned them under the Jeff Jones era. How'd that work out?

There isn’t a stat on earth that will answer this question correctly because it doesn’t exist.

Odus best teams ever all had strong back to the basket forwards and centers.

PERIOD. No amount of absurd statistical obfuscation will change this fact.

^^^^ FACT ^^^^

ODUs "best" teams also never had a good offense. They won with defense.

And it was also a different brand of game 10 years ago before people started understanding what efficient offense meant.

Apparently you are too young to have seen a few of ODU's "best" teams that did indeed have very good offenses.

Right off the top of my head - ONE of their "best" teams averaged over 77 points a game and had 4 players average in double figures. Their top two scorers collectively averaged more than BJ and Caver did last season.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sch.../1995.html

(12-04-2019 11:29 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 11:27 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 11:14 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Carver actually plays as the only frontcourt player at times, FWIW.

I don't particularly like small ball basketball, I like whatever helps winning. We score better on 3 point shots than we do 2 point shots, even with the horrendous shooting last night. Our biggest problem on offense is is so reliant on long 2s and don't shoot enough 3s.

3's work if they are in the context of the teams offense. If the team has the right players to successfully make 3's. If the team spends significant time practicing shooting 3's.

ODU was 2 for 20 against W & M Tuesday night from beyond the arc. I believe they shot a total of 63 shots from the floor that game. Had ALL of their 63 shots been from beyond the arc they would have scored a grand total of maybe 6 field goals (or 18 points) from the field if they shot at the same rate. Add in their 8 made foul shots and they would have had a total of 26 points. That is of course assuming they got to the foul line enough to make 8 foul shots as not taking it inside usually means you don't draw as many fouls. Those are simply the numbers of what might have happened had ODU shot lots and lots of 3's Tuesday night.

It's great when a team is hitting them, but when they are not it is just a bunch of one and done's.

I would LOVE to see ODU play the style of play that VCU does, and shoot more 3's - especially if they recruited players to fit that style. They don't and they don't.

I never thought of that.....you are absolutely correct. It is good when a team makes shots and bad when the miss. I never thought of that.

It's OK. You'll figure it out one of these days.

OMG 94-95. Odell, Sessoms, Mario Mullen! Give anything to have those days back again. I'm not much of a stat guy, rely more on perception.But it sure seems we used to have kids who were big and could make lay ups!!

(12-05-2019 06:53 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  OMG 94-95. Odell, Sessoms, Mario Mullen! Give anything to have those days back again. I'm not much of a stat guy, rely more on perception.But it sure seems we used to have kids who were big and could make lay ups!!

Dont forget Mike Jones!

(12-04-2019 10:26 PM)LetsGoODU Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 10:20 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Besides Nathan Knight, who have they had thats better than what ODU has rolled out the past 5-10 years? Assuming them meant plural

Marcus Thornton

He was a guard.

(12-04-2019 10:20 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Besides Nathan Knight, who have they had thats better than what ODU has rolled out the past 5-10 years? Assuming them meant plural

Judging from this past game, I would add Andy Van Vliet into the mix. He outscored out entire frontcourt by himself.

(12-05-2019 09:07 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 10:20 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Besides Nathan Knight, who have they had thats better than what ODU has rolled out the past 5-10 years? Assuming them meant plural

Judging from this past game, I would add Andy Van Vliet into the mix. He outscored out entire frontcourt by himself.

So you think he’s better than Arledge, Porter, Stith? Lol

(12-05-2019 09:08 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 09:07 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 10:20 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Besides Nathan Knight, who have they had thats better than what ODU has rolled out the past 5-10 years? Assuming them meant plural

Judging from this past game, I would add Andy Van Vliet into the mix. He outscored out entire frontcourt by himself.

So you think he’s better than Arledge, Porter, Stith? Lol

I doubt that, but we don't have any of those guys this year. The point is that W&M has outrecruited us in the frontcourt by a wide margin in the current version of our teams.

Perhaps our guys will improve, but as of right now, we don't look good. Did you see what the Mason bigs did to us on the boards?