(11-30-2019 08:14 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 07:58 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 07:47 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 07:24 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 07:18 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  I see the point of your post, but technically we didn’t abandon it. It abandoned us. We didn’t choose to change coaches. That decision was made for us. There’s no evidence to say there was another coach out there available that would have played the same system with the same success.

Unlike UNCW’s mistakes abandoning Brownell basketball success, this wasn’t our doing.


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Siddle. And regardless of why, we moved away from a system that was successful completey, while UNCG picked up that same system and has now surpassed us. we had the players, we had the system for long term succes and we left it. It's a damned shame. No way UNCW should be behind UNCG in basketball.

I agree on where we should be, that is a certainty. What is not a certainty was whether or not Siddle would be successful. Sure, he was K’s assistant but that doesn’t equal a hill of beans in terms of certainty which is why I said there was no guarantee in terms of success. Hell, we don’t even know if Siddle would have stuck with the same system (likely, but not guaranteed). On top of that K had already taken pieces and there’s no guarantee recruits would have stayed.

There’s a lot of moving parts there that you’re assuming would have played out perfectly.

Keatts is hardly successful at NCSU. Was he really ready for that jump? In the same light would Siddle who had relatively little coaching experience have been ready? Maybe. Maybe not.


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Have to agree with you here on one thing, there is no guarantee Siddle would have been successful. It's making a lot of assumptions to say he would. Very good Chance CJ takes off regardless, and hes the guy along with Vonte that could have kept him afloat.

I do though agree with 82, We should have hired a coach that would have at least floated one of the similar styles to what has worked for us recently. Honestly, The first questions I ask in the interview if i'm Bass is what do you envision your team being? What Style would you like to play?

And i know for a fact he would have kept the same system in place.

How so?



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(11-30-2019 08:16 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 08:14 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 07:58 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 07:47 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 07:24 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Siddle. And regardless of why, we moved away from a system that was successful completey, while UNCG picked up that same system and has now surpassed us. we had the players, we had the system for long term succes and we left it. It's a damned shame. No way UNCW should be behind UNCG in basketball.

I agree on where we should be, that is a certainty. What is not a certainty was whether or not Siddle would be successful. Sure, he was K’s assistant but that doesn’t equal a hill of beans in terms of certainty which is why I said there was no guarantee in terms of success. Hell, we don’t even know if Siddle would have stuck with the same system (likely, but not guaranteed). On top of that K had already taken pieces and there’s no guarantee recruits would have stayed.

There’s a lot of moving parts there that you’re assuming would have played out perfectly.

Keatts is hardly successful at NCSU. Was he really ready for that jump? In the same light would Siddle who had relatively little coaching experience have been ready? Maybe. Maybe not.


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Have to agree with you here on one thing, there is no guarantee Siddle would have been successful. It's making a lot of assumptions to say he would. Very good Chance CJ takes off regardless, and hes the guy along with Vonte that could have kept him afloat.

I do though agree with 82, We should have hired a coach that would have at least floated one of the similar styles to what has worked for us recently. Honestly, The first questions I ask in the interview if i'm Bass is what do you envision your team being? What Style would you like to play?

And i know for a fact he would have kept the same system in place.

How so?



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Because he said he would.

(11-30-2019 08:14 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 07:58 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 07:47 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 07:24 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(11-30-2019 07:18 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  I see the point of your post, but technically we didn’t abandon it. It abandoned us. We didn’t choose to change coaches. That decision was made for us. There’s no evidence to say there was another coach out there available that would have played the same system with the same success.

Unlike UNCW’s mistakes abandoning Brownell basketball success, this wasn’t our doing.


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Siddle. And regardless of why, we moved away from a system that was successful completey, while UNCG picked up that same system and has now surpassed us. we had the players, we had the system for long term succes and we left it. It's a damned shame. No way UNCW should be behind UNCG in basketball.

I agree on where we should be, that is a certainty. What is not a certainty was whether or not Siddle would be successful. Sure, he was K’s assistant but that doesn’t equal a hill of beans in terms of certainty which is why I said there was no guarantee in terms of success. Hell, we don’t even know if Siddle would have stuck with the same system (likely, but not guaranteed). On top of that K had already taken pieces and there’s no guarantee recruits would have stayed.

There’s a lot of moving parts there that you’re assuming would have played out perfectly.

Keatts is hardly successful at NCSU. Was he really ready for that jump? In the same light would Siddle who had relatively little coaching experience have been ready? Maybe. Maybe not.


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Have to agree with you here on one thing, there is no guarantee Siddle would have been successful. It's making a lot of assumptions to say he would. Very good Chance CJ takes off regardless, and hes the guy along with Vonte that could have kept him afloat.

I do though agree with 82, We should have hired a coach that would have at least floated one of the similar styles to what has worked for us recently. Honestly, The first questions I ask in the interview if i'm Bass is what do you envision your team being? What Style would you like to play?

Bryce was just one piece. We lost an entire recruiting class and incoming transfers. Siddle at least offered a chance they would stay since they already knew him and the system we would be playing. And i know for a fact he would have kept the same system in place. And if not Siddle, there are plenty of coaches out there that run the press or at least assistants. The fact UNCG has had success they never had until they ran the press is only rubbing salt in the wound.

Bryce was the biggest piece. Have you checked out those other recruits? Last time I looked they hadn’t amounted to much elsewhere except for that juco kid that went to coastal( I think)


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He would’ve taken the job then, and he would take it again now.

(12-01-2019 09:43 AM)Gary Miller Wrote:  He would’ve taken the job then, and he would take it again now.

Personally, I don’t trust anyone from the Keatts tree. Let’s say he’s just as successful as Keatts. I don’t trust that he’d do exactly what his mentor did and leave us high and dry on the rocks. That’s just me though.


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Here's all I care about, so we don't devolve into an endless debate. Continuity is the key to success. We cannot switch styles every 5 years and have a sucessful program that is consistently at the top of the CAA. We also are not going to retain a coach that has that kind of success. So, all we CAN do is promote the assistant of a successful coach OR hire a coach who is from the same coaching tree/philosophy when we succeed The Wainright to Brownell handoff was textbook on how to build a midmajor program. If we hadn't been spoiled by our success(regardless of how Brownell left), we would have hired one of our assistants under Brownell. No telling where we would be right now had we followed this simple formula.

Unfortunately, we didn't learn from the last failed experiement when we "went a different direction" when Brownell departed, and ended up with a decade of failure. Keatts came along a brought instant success with a proven strategy. He only stayed three years and we had an opportunity to hire his assistant...and didn't. Again, we chose to "go a different direction", and didn't interview a single coach that would maintain the strategy that took us to the NCAA tournament back to back. And here we are again. Two years already wasted, a third year looking like a waste, and who knows how many more years before we climb out of this hole. We don't just take steps back, we fall off the cliff when we switch styles following success. It may be too late to right this ship, so we can only hope for two things.

One. Somehow, some way, McGrath figures this out and we get back on track. I don't think he's gone after this year, but 2020-2021 will be a must win year.

Two- McGrath fails and we are faced with another hire. Do we learn from our mistakes or repeat them? We will have to hire a coach from a defensive minded system. UVA or Louisvillle/Texas/FSU. I don't care which one, but that is where we have to go. We cannot afford another Benny/Buzz/McGrath run and gun style with no backbone of defense.

(12-01-2019 10:19 AM)82hawk Wrote:  Here's all I care about, so we don't devolve into an endless debate. Continuity is the key to success. We cannot switch styles every 5 years and have a sucessful program that is consistently at the top of the CAA. We also are not going to retain a coach that has that kind of success. So, all we CAN do is promote the assistant of a successful coach OR hire a coach who is from the same coaching tree/philosophy when we succeed The Wainright to Brownell handoff was textbook on how to build a midmajor program. If we hadn't been spoiled by our success(regardless of how Brownell left), we would have hired one of our assistants under Brownell. No telling where we would be right now had we followed this simple formula.

Unfortunately, we didn't learn from the last failed experiement when we "went a different direction" when Brownell departed, and ended up with a decade of failure. Keatts came along a brought instant success with a proven strategy. He only stayed three years and we had an opportunity to hire his assistant...and didn't. Again, we chose to "go a different direction", and didn't interview a single coach that would maintain the strategy that took us to the NCAA tournament back to back. And here we are again. Two years already wasted, a third year looking like a waste, and who knows how many more years before we climb out of this hole. We don't just take steps back, we fall off the cliff when we switch styles following success. It may be too late to right this ship, so we can only hope for two things.

One. Somehow, some way, McGrath figures this out and we get back on track. I don't think he's gone after this year, but 2020-2021 will be a must win year.

Two- McGrath fails and we are faced with another hire. Do we learn from our mistakes or repeat them? We will have to hire a coach from a defensive minded system. UVA or Louisvillle/Texas/FSU. I don't care which one, but that is where we have to go. We cannot afford another Benny/Buzz/McGrath run and gun style with no backbone of defense.

This is all fair and wraps up the moot points rather well. Even with our minor differences in opinion I agree with all of this from a larger, strategic view.


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(12-01-2019 10:49 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 10:19 AM)82hawk Wrote:  Here's all I care about, so we don't devolve into an endless debate. Continuity is the key to success. We cannot switch styles every 5 years and have a sucessful program that is consistently at the top of the CAA. We also are not going to retain a coach that has that kind of success. So, all we CAN do is promote the assistant of a successful coach OR hire a coach who is from the same coaching tree/philosophy when we succeed The Wainright to Brownell handoff was textbook on how to build a midmajor program. If we hadn't been spoiled by our success(regardless of how Brownell left), we would have hired one of our assistants under Brownell. No telling where we would be right now had we followed this simple formula.

Unfortunately, we didn't learn from the last failed experiement when we "went a different direction" when Brownell departed, and ended up with a decade of failure. Keatts came along a brought instant success with a proven strategy. He only stayed three years and we had an opportunity to hire his assistant...and didn't. Again, we chose to "go a different direction", and didn't interview a single coach that would maintain the strategy that took us to the NCAA tournament back to back. And here we are again. Two years already wasted, a third year looking like a waste, and who knows how many more years before we climb out of this hole. We don't just take steps back, we fall off the cliff when we switch styles following success. It may be too late to right this ship, so we can only hope for two things.

One. Somehow, some way, McGrath figures this out and we get back on track. I don't think he's gone after this year, but 2020-2021 will be a must win year.

Two- McGrath fails and we are faced with another hire. Do we learn from our mistakes or repeat them? We will have to hire a coach from a defensive minded system. UVA or Louisvillle/Texas/FSU. I don't care which one, but that is where we have to go. We cannot afford another Benny/Buzz/McGrath run and gun style with no backbone of defense.

This is all fair and wraps up the moot points rather well. Even with our minor differences in opinion I agree with all of this from a larger, strategic view.


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The huge difference with Brownell vs other assistant coaches is that Brad was the Xs and Os man with Wainwright as the head coach. So we were basically running a Brownell system with Wainwright as the HC. There was a guarantee that not much, if anything, would change with the passing of the torch. I've seen many assistant coaches make big changes with their own ideas when they took over. Sometimes it was good, sometimes it wasn't. I don't see us ever being in a win win situation again like we were with Brownell. And even then our admin, along with a few money boosters ruined that. I believe if it wasn't for those POSs, we would have continued the Brownell coaching tree with at least some reasonable success. And we would have never plunged into the depths of hell for 10 years.

I liked Siddle. But my guess is there were a couple key factors at play. If Jimmy Bass felt Siddle was ready for a HC job, he at least would have granted Siddle an interview. He didn't, so like it or not, it was likely the case that Jimmy felt Siddle wasn't ready for that jump. Add to that the shady way Keatts behaved on his way out of the door, and there might have been some burned bridges there.

Charleston faces UCF (4-2) today in their final game of the Wooden Classic in Anaheim. They fell to Wake Forest by 9 on Thursday, then defeated Providence on Friday. Winning 1 of these 3 has been great. Taking 2 would be a huge boon for the Cougars and the CAA.

JMU beat ECU (2-6) 99-89 last night. It was a nice bounce back after their dreadful loss to Coppin State.

Hofstra faces Holy Cross (0-6) today in Boca Raton, FL at 3 PM. After their huge win @ UCLA and another good road victory over Cal State Fullerton, the Pride fell to San Diego on the road. Now they make a cross-country trip on 3 full days of rest. Hofstra hasn't had a home game since Nov 15, and their next one won't be until Dec 10.

Towson takes on Cornell (1-6) on the road at 4:00 PM today.

CAA is putting together some good wins but those same teams with head scratching losses. I just wish we could participate in the OOC success to raise the RPI, not to mention the $$ from the CAA that comes with those wins. Man, is there any remote possibility we shock the world and beat Stanford today? JK.....

Charlotte defeated SC Upstate 83-47 on Saturday to improve to 3-3 on the season. They host UNC Asheville tomorrow (Dec 3) at 7 PM before heading to Trask on Dec 7.

Vanderbilt (5-2) lost at home to Tulsa by a 67-58 count on Saturday. Next up for the Commodores is another home game on Tuesday, against Buffalo.

Campbell (5-2) defeated North Dakota yesterday, 58-56, to go 2-1 at the FGCU Classic. They're now off for the next 13 days, presumably for their Final Exams of the Fall Semester.

Davidson (3-5) fell to Temple in the final game of the Orlando Invitational yesterday, 66-53. They went 1-2 at the tournament, losing to Marquette and defeating Fairfield. Next up for the Wildcats is a game @ Northeastern on Saturday.

Mercer (3-4) lost to Canisius, 76-66, in Boca Raton yesterday.

Delaware hopes to continue their hot start and advance to 8-0 against D-I opponents with a home game against Columbia (3-5) tonight at 7. It will be their final non-conference home game, as their subsequent 4 contests will be neutral/road tilts prior to the start of CAA play.

Charleston (4-4) fell to UCF on Sunday, 77-56 in the post-Tacko Fall era. They still had a successful performance at the Wooden Legacy Classic by going 1-2 in Anaheim.

W&M (5-3) hosts ODU (3-5) tomorrow at 7.

Hofstra (4-3) defeated Holy Cross yesterday, 91-69. Next up for them is a road game against Saint Bonaventure on Dec 7.

Elon (0-6) hosts Kennesaw State tonight at 7 in a battle of teams that are winless against D-I opponents. Kennesaw State enters at 0-5. Hopefully the Phoenix can pick up their first W.

Out of the OOC successful teams in the CAA so far, Delaware has the best chance of falling quickly once conference play starts. Of their 8-0 start, I'm not really impressed by any of their wins, and 6 of their 8 wins are against teams with losing records, one of which hasn't won a game at all yet. They may very well prove to be a top CAA team, but if we're looking at the quality of OOC play... I think our record would be a lot better if we were playing a similar schedule, just saying.

Additionally, when we're looking at OOC success, let's take a closer look at say -- William and Mary.

They're currently 5-3 with wins over High Point, American, Wofford, Hampton, and Morehead St. They have losses to Oklahoma (by 5), Stanford (-31), and Buffalo (-11).

Let's face it, we play a very tough OOC schedule. So far our defense has improved, which I think stands to make us more competitive than we currently think we are come conference play. We just took a hard it from Stanford, which really laid it on WM (81-50). Once we get two of our best shooters back, and hopefully Gadsden is 100% as he's a decent defender with CAA experience... I have reason to believe there is hope for this season.

We can look at records of our CAA mates out of conference, but instead of getting emotional about it we should take an objective look at who their playing before checking into the woe is me lane.

(12-02-2019 12:38 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  Out of the OOC successful teams in the CAA so far, Delaware has the best chance of falling quickly once conference play starts. Of their 8-0 start, I'm not really impressed by any of their wins, and 6 of their 8 wins are against teams with losing records, one of which hasn't won a game at all yet. They may very well prove to be a top CAA team, but if we're looking at the quality of OOC play... I think our record would be a lot better if we were playing a similar schedule, just saying.

You can only play the teams that are on your schedule. And when you're looking at quality of competition, you have to factor in margin of victory. In Delaware's 7 wins against D-I competition, they've averaged a margin of victory of 10.4 points per contest (+73 net points). And 5 of their 7 wins were on neutral or road courts.

Yes, their opponents have a record of 16-33 (.327) against D-I. But Delaware is still playing like a team that can finish in the top half of the league. I don't see them finishing in the top 2, but 4th sounds about right.

Their upcoming games @ George Washington (Dec 7) and neutral vs. # 22 Villanova (Dec 14) will be opportunities to prove they're legit.

As I mentioned in another thread, when it comes to our chances in H2H against Delaware, it's up to C.B. to prove he can beat Martin Inglesby. He is 0-4 against Delaware thru 2 seasons.

Just had a chance to watch UNCG beat Georgetown. After hearing about how hard it is to land big men, i took a look at their roster.

6'10 Sr
6'10" Fr
6'9" So
6'8" Fr
6'8" Fr.
6'7" So.

Unless all of them are horrendous players, are we not able to compete for size like that at UNCW? That's six payers over 6'7" on that team and we have 2. Three of them are 6'9" + and we have none.

In fairness, the CAA has always been a guard dominated league. There have been really really good big men come through the years, but in the end is has always been a guard driven league, so you need good guards to win. Obviously you cant ignore bigs but in a fast paced game and league, guards are important. With that said, generally in the CAA its about diamond in the rough bigs because quality length and athleticism goes to major conferences.

Separately, we have had discussions about that as well since this is by far the tallest/bigger team Drexel has fielded. we have 2 freshman (6'6" guard/wing and 6'9" wing. There are times where our point guard is the only player on the court under 6'6" and he is 6'2". Historically undersized guards and forwards is what the CAA has utilized even when the CAA was strong. Your Will Thomas's were always in the 6'8" to 6'9" range as centers.

(12-03-2019 11:29 AM)dan10 Wrote:  Your Will Thomas's were always in the 6'8" to 6'9" range as centers.

Right, but we don't even have that. I think that was his point.

(12-02-2019 04:46 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Just had a chance to watch UNCG beat Georgetown. After hearing about how hard it is to land big men, i took a look at their roster.

6'10 Sr
6'10" Fr
6'9" So
6'8" Fr
6'8" Fr.
6'7" So.

Unless all of them are horrendous players, are we not able to compete for size like that at UNCW? That's six payers over 6'7" on that team and we have 2. Three of them are 6'9" + and we have none.

Not to slide the conversation about CAA guards vs bigs, and also not to detract from UNCG's win, but a negative story just hit the press about a couple of Gtown basketball players...

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket...harassment

Not sure how much that affected their team chemistry and roster though. Those kinds of things obviously never help though.