(12-02-2019 06:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  My point was just .... of thr 14 six win teams, how many rely on an FCS win to get to six, and have those FCS wins been vetted to make sure the FCS teams meetd the 90% grant-aid criterion?

Seems likely they would get that sorted out when the FCS regular season ended ... since the playoffs are in progress, seems like they could well have it set up to know by CCG week.

Well, if not earlier, but the only bowl picking before then is Bahamas, and they've got two 7-5 schools (Buffalo & Charlotte), where it isn't an issue in eligibility.

(12-02-2019 08:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 06:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 11:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 11:18 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 11:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  That is exactly what I said. I didn't include Missouri. There are 80 teams with 6 wins or more.

right. But there are only 78 bowl spots. So there is 1 other team that is an odd man out.

My terminology confused you. By odd man out, I meant the only one of the 80 6+ win teams that wasn't eligible. There will be another odd man out, one of the remaining 79.

My point was just .... of thr 14 six win teams, how many rely on an FCS win to get to six, and have those FCS wins been vetted to make sure the FCS teams meetd the 90% grant-aid criterion?

I would really think we would have heard about that by now quite frankly.

IIRC, when the issue came up with FSU a couple years ago, they had already accepted the Indy Bowl bid.

(12-02-2019 09:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 06:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 11:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 11:18 PM)stever20 Wrote:  right. But there are only 78 bowl spots. So there is 1 other team that is an odd man out.

My terminology confused you. By odd man out, I meant the only one of the 80 6+ win teams that wasn't eligible. There will be another odd man out, one of the remaining 79.

My point was just .... of thr 14 six win teams, how many rely on an FCS win to get to six, and have those FCS wins been vetted to make sure the FCS teams meetd the 90% grant-aid criterion?

I would really think we would have heard about that by now quite frankly.

IIRC, when the issue came up with FSU a couple years ago, they had already accepted the Indy Bowl bid.

possibly I guess...

Here's the 14 that I'm seeing at 6-6...
Tulane- Montana St- made FCS playoffs
Fla St- Alabama St
BC- Richmond-CAA
Miami- Bethune Cookman
UNC- Mercer
Mich St- none
Illinois- none
FIU- New Hampshire-CAA
Ohio- Rhode Island-CAA
Kent St-Kennesaw St- made FCS playoffs
Toledo-Murray St
E Michigan- C Conn. St- made FCS Playoffs
Wash St- No Colorado-Big Sky
Miss St- Abilene Christian

would think the 3 that made the FCS playoffs are fine along with the 2 that didn't play obviously. Richmond, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island are CAA- so think they're fine... Northern Colorado is Big Sky so probably fine as well...

(12-02-2019 06:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  My point was just .... of thr 14 six win teams, how many rely on an FCS win to get to six, and have those FCS wins been vetted to make sure the FCS teams meetd the 90% grant-aid criterion?

I would like to see the bowl selection criteria changed. To be an automatic qualifier, you should have 6 wins against FBS schools. This year, there were 65 such teams. In 2018 there were 71 and in 2017 there were 69.

Then, from the pool of teams with 5 FBS wins, take the teams with the best APR to fill out the bowl field. This year, that pool had 17 teams, in 2018 it was 14 and 2017 there were 16. No wins against FCS opponents should count toward bowl eligibility IMO.

This year, it wouldn't have made a significant change in the number of eligible teams per conference. But at the margin, it would have changed which those teams were. In the future, this could result in fewer FBS vs FCS games if the criteria were changed, and IMO that would be a good thing.

(12-02-2019 10:02 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 06:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  My point was just .... of thr 14 six win teams, how many rely on an FCS win to get to six, and have those FCS wins been vetted to make sure the FCS teams meetd the 90% grant-aid criterion?

I would like to see the bowl selection criteria changed. To be an automatic qualifier, you should have 6 wins against FBS schools. This year, there were 65 such teams. In 2018 there were 71 and in 2017 there were 69.

Then, from the pool of teams with 5 FBS wins, take the teams with the best APR to fill out the bowl field. This year, that pool had 17 teams, in 2018 it was 14 and 2017 there were 16. No wins against FCS opponents should count toward bowl eligibility IMO.

This year, it wouldn't have made a significant change in the number of eligible teams per conference. But at the margin, it would have changed which those teams were. In the future, this could result in fewer FBS vs FCS games if the criteria were changed, and IMO that would be a good thing.

Personally, I don't want to discourage games vs FCS too much. FCS programs rely on very little money, and games vs FBS are paydays that help spread a little of the big wealth around to them, much like P5 vs G5 games help spread some of that big P5 money down to the G5 schools.

[Recycling an earlier comment to include this year’s bowl matchup]

Boise State has unquestionably had a stunning run of success for the past 15-20 years. Still, there seems to be a view that they are THE dominant team outside of the “P5” leagues. I question how true that really is.

For the past decade, they have played in 1 major bowl (and yes, they did win it. But still, only 1). Opponent’s W-L record *before* the bowl game:

2010 (last yr./WAC): Las Vegas Bowl vs. Utah (MWC/10-2)
2011 (1st yr./MWC): Las Vegas Bowl vs. Ariz. State (PAC/6-6)
2012: Las Vegas Bowl vs. Washington (PAC/7-5)
2013: Hawaii Bowl vs. Oregon State (PAC/6-6)
2014: Fiesta Bowl vs. Arizona (PAC/10-3)
2015: Poinsettia Bowl vs. Northern Illinois (MAC/8-5)
2016: Cactus Bowl vs. Baylor (BigXII/6-6)
2017: Las Vegas Bowl vs. Oregon (PAC/7-5)
2018: 1st Responder Bowl vs. Boston College (ACC/7-5)
2019: Las Vegas Bowl vs. Washington (PAC/7-5)

(12-09-2019 02:23 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  [Recycling an earlier comment to include this year’s bowl matchup]

Boise State has unquestionably had a stunning run of success for the past 15-20 years. Still, there seems to be a view that they are THE dominant team outside of the “P5” leagues. I question how true that really is.

Well, just off the cuff, I looked at the record of Boise compared with the team that immediately came to mind as a possible challenger for "best of decade" outside the P5, and to my grudging admission that was UCF, and what I found was, as of right now ...

Boise has won 105 games since the start of 2010, UCF has won 86.

So to me, 19 games is an awful lot more games.

Maybe there is someone else?

(12-09-2019 02:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:23 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  [Recycling an earlier comment to include this year’s bowl matchup]

Boise State has unquestionably had a stunning run of success for the past 15-20 years. Still, there seems to be a view that they are THE dominant team outside of the “P5” leagues. I question how true that really is.

Well, just off the cuff, I looked at the record of Boise compared with the team that immediately came to mind as a possible challenger for "best of decade" outside the P5, and to my grudging admission that was UCF, and what I found was, as of right now ...

Boise has won 105 games since the start of 2010, UCF has won 86.

So to me, 19 games is an awful lot more games.

Maybe there is someone else?

true However Boise- 1 NY6 bowl... UCF 3 NY6 bowls. That evens out a lot of the raw wins.

(12-09-2019 02:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:23 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  [Recycling an earlier comment to include this year’s bowl matchup]

Boise State has unquestionably had a stunning run of success for the past 15-20 years. Still, there seems to be a view that they are THE dominant team outside of the “P5” leagues. I question how true that really is.

Well, just off the cuff, I looked at the record of Boise compared with the team that immediately came to mind as a possible challenger for "best of decade" outside the P5, and to my grudging admission that was UCF, and what I found was, as of right now ...

Boise has won 105 games since the start of 2010, UCF has won 86.

So to me, 19 games is an awful lot more games.

Maybe there is someone else?

They could have won 119 more games than anyone else, and that still wouldn’t necessarily disprove what I said.

I view Boise State’s run over the last 15-20 years as being somewhat analogous to the Atlanta Braves from 1991-2005. They won their division every year but once (IIRC) and frequently seemed to be — as each year rolled by — the best team in the NL if not all of MLB. And yet when you look back on it, they only took the World Series title one time over that span. To me, their overall winning % could’ve been 70.0 and that wouldn’t amount to “domination” because of their regular collapses in October.

The parallel to Boise State is not exact but let’s put it this way: if you’re not playing in the Access Bowl, you did not dominate the G5 that particular year.

(12-09-2019 02:39 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:23 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  [Recycling an earlier comment to include this year’s bowl matchup]

Boise State has unquestionably had a stunning run of success for the past 15-20 years. Still, there seems to be a view that they are THE dominant team outside of the “P5” leagues. I question how true that really is.

Well, just off the cuff, I looked at the record of Boise compared with the team that immediately came to mind as a possible challenger for "best of decade" outside the P5, and to my grudging admission that was UCF, and what I found was, as of right now ...

Boise has won 105 games since the start of 2010, UCF has won 86.

So to me, 19 games is an awful lot more games.

Maybe there is someone else?

They could have won 119 more games than anyone else, and that still wouldn’t necessarily disprove what I said.

I view Boise State’s run over the last 15-20 years as being somewhat analogous to the Atlanta Braves from 1991-2005. They won their division every year but once (IIRC) and frequently seemed to be — as each year rolled by — the best team in the NL if not all of MLB. And yet when you look back on it, they only took the World Series title one time over that span. To me, their overall winning % could’ve been 70.0 and that wouldn’t amount to “domination” because of their regular collapses in October.

The parallel to Boise State is not exact but let’s put it this way: if you’re not playing in the Access Bowl, you did not dominate the G5 that particular year.

They can only play (even in bowls) who they can schedule.

This year is a perfect example. While I have been saying for weeks that Memphis is the best G5 team, the distance between Memphis and Boise is very small. And Boise was a FG from being the G5 rep.

Problem is, for ANY G5, if they aren't the G5 rep, the drop off is substantial when it comes to Bowl match ups.

(12-09-2019 02:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  They can only play (even in bowls) who they can schedule.

This year is a perfect example. While I have been saying for weeks that Memphis is the best G5 team, the distance between Memphis and Boise is very small. And Boise was a FG from being the G5 rep.

Problem is, for ANY G5, if they are the G5 rep, the drop off is substantial when it comes to Bowl match ups.

All true, dback.

Memphis and UCF, Appalachian State and FAU, etc., all operate under that same handicap. I guess my point is that if a team is to be regarded as the Dominant Force in G5, they must overcome that handicap more than once a decade.

(12-09-2019 02:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:23 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  [Recycling an earlier comment to include this year’s bowl matchup]

Boise State has unquestionably had a stunning run of success for the past 15-20 years. Still, there seems to be a view that they are THE dominant team outside of the “P5” leagues. I question how true that really is.

Well, just off the cuff, I looked at the record of Boise compared with the team that immediately came to mind as a possible challenger for "best of decade" outside the P5, and to my grudging admission that was UCF, and what I found was, as of right now ...

Boise has won 105 games since the start of 2010, UCF has won 86.

So to me, 19 games is an awful lot more games.

Maybe there is someone else?

true However Boise- 1 NY6 bowl... UCF 3 NY6 bowls. That evens out a lot of the raw wins.

No, i don't think it evens out any of them, because NY6 bowls are things you are selected to.

Boise > UCF by a mile.

(12-09-2019 02:39 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:23 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  [Recycling an earlier comment to include this year’s bowl matchup]

Boise State has unquestionably had a stunning run of success for the past 15-20 years. Still, there seems to be a view that they are THE dominant team outside of the “P5” leagues. I question how true that really is.

Well, just off the cuff, I looked at the record of Boise compared with the team that immediately came to mind as a possible challenger for "best of decade" outside the P5, and to my grudging admission that was UCF, and what I found was, as of right now ...

Boise has won 105 games since the start of 2010, UCF has won 86.

So to me, 19 games is an awful lot more games.

Maybe there is someone else?

They could have won 119 more games than anyone else, and that still wouldn’t necessarily disprove what I said.

I view Boise State’s run over the last 15-20 years as being somewhat analogous to the Atlanta Braves from 1991-2005. They won their division every year but once (IIRC) and frequently seemed to be — as each year rolled by — the best team in the NL if not all of MLB. And yet when you look back on it, they only took the World Series title one time over that span. To me, their overall winning % could’ve been 70.0 and that wouldn’t amount to “domination” because of their regular collapses in October.

The parallel to Boise State is not exact but let’s put it this way: if you’re not playing in the Access Bowl, you did not dominate the G5 that particular year.

The Braves analogy would make sense if Boise was blowing it in the post season, which for G5 means bowl games.

But .... Boise is 6-2 in bowl games this decade.

Among G5 easily the team of the decade.

(12-09-2019 03:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Boise has won 105 games since the start of 2010, UCF has won 86.

So to me, 19 games is an awful lot more games.

Maybe there is someone else?

true However Boise- 1 NY6 bowl... UCF 3 NY6 bowls. That evens out a lot of the raw wins.

No, i don't think it evens out any of them, because NY6 bowls are things you are selected to.

Wow. We’ll definitely have to part ways on that.

Quote:Boise > UCF by a mile

Some years that is true, other years not true.

But anyway, even if it were true all the time, that would only prove that UCF has not been “THE” dominant team in G5 either (just as Boise hasn’t been), over the course of that period of time.

(12-09-2019 03:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:23 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  [Recycling an earlier comment to include this year’s bowl matchup]

Boise State has unquestionably had a stunning run of success for the past 15-20 years. Still, there seems to be a view that they are THE dominant team outside of the “P5” leagues. I question how true that really is.

Well, just off the cuff, I looked at the record of Boise compared with the team that immediately came to mind as a possible challenger for "best of decade" outside the P5, and to my grudging admission that was UCF, and what I found was, as of right now ...

Boise has won 105 games since the start of 2010, UCF has won 86.

So to me, 19 games is an awful lot more games.

Maybe there is someone else?

true However Boise- 1 NY6 bowl... UCF 3 NY6 bowls. That evens out a lot of the raw wins.

No, i don't think it evens out any of them, because NY6 bowls are things you are selected to.

Boise > UCF by a mile.

so says a USF fan....

but seriously Boise has been constantly good this decade. But always had a **** up or 2 every year that screwed them....

(12-09-2019 03:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The Braves analogy would make sense if Boise was blowing it in the post season, which for G5 means bowl games.

But .... Boise is 6-2 in bowl games this decade.

Among G5 easily the team of the decade.

As I admitted, the Braves/Boise parallel is not exact. But not all Bowl Games are created equal, and winning an unimportant bowl against an unimportant opponent does not equate to making (win or lose) the World Series or the LCS in MLB.

If only there were some way to take all the conference champions and a few other high caliber teams and put them into a competition to determine the best team.

(12-09-2019 03:18 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 03:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:23 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  [Recycling an earlier comment to include this year’s bowl matchup]

Boise State has unquestionably had a stunning run of success for the past 15-20 years. Still, there seems to be a view that they are THE dominant team outside of the “P5” leagues. I question how true that really is.

Well, just off the cuff, I looked at the record of Boise compared with the team that immediately came to mind as a possible challenger for "best of decade" outside the P5, and to my grudging admission that was UCF, and what I found was, as of right now ...

Boise has won 105 games since the start of 2010, UCF has won 86.

So to me, 19 games is an awful lot more games.

Maybe there is someone else?

true However Boise- 1 NY6 bowl... UCF 3 NY6 bowls. That evens out a lot of the raw wins.

No, i don't think it evens out any of them, because NY6 bowls are things you are selected to.

Boise > UCF by a mile.

so says a USF fan....

So says 105 wins to 86 wins.

Good Lord it's amazing people are arguing this.

(12-09-2019 03:19 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 03:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The Braves analogy would make sense if Boise was blowing it in the post season, which for G5 means bowl games.

But .... Boise is 6-2 in bowl games this decade.

Among G5 easily the team of the decade.

As I admitted, the Braves/Boise parallel is not exact. But not all Bowl Games are created equal, and winning an unimportant bowl against an unimportant opponent does not equate to making (win or lose) the World Series or the LCS in MLB.

You make the World Series in MLB by winning divisional and LCS playoff series. No G5 wins playoffs to get an NY6 bid, it is selected by the committee or in the old days, the BCS formula.

Totally different.

Boise is 6-2 in bowl games, so totally unlike the Braves of the 90s. UCF is 4-3 in bowls this decade.

Boise trounces UCF, 105 wins to 86. No way around that.

(12-09-2019 05:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Good Lord it's amazing people are arguing this.

Define “this”.

I’m happy to acknowledge that Boise has had — by some but not all criteria — more football success than UCF over the past decade.