(11-04-2019 01:28 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:54 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 11:11 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 08:22 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 06:22 AM)kurtrundell Wrote:  I'd really like to see how Mike Leach would do at a school with the money and recruiting grounds that FSU has. He'd win 10 games a year there, with the only impediment being Clemson.

Meh...Idk

FSU sorely needs a disciplinarian

Think more along the lines of Bob Stoops, Mark Stoops, Kirby Smart, Narduzzi

I don't want offensive gurumanship. I want to see fundamentals, Football basics 101, physical football

FSU needs someone who will bring in about 6-7 OL and at least one QB who can immediately contribute because as it stands right now you don't have either of those things in 2020.

Good observation Captain Obvious

Well if you are going to fire one coach because he hadn't fixed the issues that had been evident at FSU since at least 2014 in one and a half recruiting classes what is going to stop you from firing the next coach when he can't fix them in a season and a half either?


Just goes to show that geography is often wrong. I always thought that the Tennessee River downstream of Knoxville flowed into the Ohio River near Paducha, Kentucky but obviously they are getting their water supply from it somehow in Tallahassee.

Because the problems are more than just OLine. The solution is not as simple as "recruit good Oline"

Miami's Oline sucks too, they have QB issues too...how were they able to beat FSU?

Penalties and having an inability to even line up correctly are coaching issues. Taggart wasn't a good hire from the start and the people that hired him gave him wayyy too much money

FSU needs a disciplinarian. They need to get back to fundamental football.

I'm relatively certain that it's going to be Mark Stoops, which I think will be interesting. Stoops is lauded for taking Kentucky from bad to mediocre, but they just fired a guy that took an 0-12 WKU team to 7-5 in 2 years.

(11-04-2019 01:38 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 01:28 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:54 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 11:11 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 08:22 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Meh...Idk

FSU sorely needs a disciplinarian

Think more along the lines of Bob Stoops, Mark Stoops, Kirby Smart, Narduzzi

I don't want offensive gurumanship. I want to see fundamentals, Football basics 101, physical football

FSU needs someone who will bring in about 6-7 OL and at least one QB who can immediately contribute because as it stands right now you don't have either of those things in 2020.

Good observation Captain Obvious

Well if you are going to fire one coach because he hadn't fixed the issues that had been evident at FSU since at least 2014 in one and a half recruiting classes what is going to stop you from firing the next coach when he can't fix them in a season and a half either?


Just goes to show that geography is often wrong. I always thought that the Tennessee River downstream of Knoxville flowed into the Ohio River near Paducha, Kentucky but obviously they are getting their water supply from it somehow in Tallahassee.

Because the problems are more than just OLine. The solution is not as simple as "recruit good Oline"

Miami's Oline sucks too, they have QB issues too...how were they able to beat FSU?

Penalties and having an inability to even line up correctly are coaching issues. Taggart wasn't a good hire from the start and the people that hired him gave him wayyy too much money

FSU needs a disciplinarian. They need to get back to fundamental football.

Taggart is a disciplinarian, but when you have a roster full of players recruited by a scumbag who doesn't care about character it's an uphill battle. Hell, Taggart hasn't been coaching a team.....he's been coaching a roster full of showboating "Look at me!" individuals for the past season and a half. Guess what....the next coach is going to have that problem as well until there's no Fisher kids left on the roster. It's hard to get people with zero discipline to do the fundamentals. Add to that these kind of kids tend to be front runners who wilt the first time adversity hits them because they've been coddled all their lives by enabling coaches and sycophant fans it's a damn wonder he won what he did while serving as the HC in Tallahassee.

The only real mistake Taggart made IMO is he didn't burn the whole program down last year and start from scratch. He would have been worse off last year, but further along this year getting rid of the cancerous influences on his roster and laying down the law with the kids he brought in and the ones he didn't run off.

Add to that the fact that Trickett simply did not develop an offensive line going back as far as 2014. Despite making the playoffs the OL play was not good and Winston took an absolute beating that year.

It is wrong to see similarities between Randy Shannon's tenure at Miami and Willie Taggart's at FSU?

(11-04-2019 02:51 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It is wrong to see similarities between Randy Shannon's tenure at Miami and Willie Taggart's at FSU?

Yes, its wrong.

Shannon was a causality of the Nevin Shapiro.

(11-04-2019 02:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  ...The only real mistake Taggart made IMO is he didn't burn the whole program down last year and start from scratch. He would have been worse off last year, but further along this year getting rid of the cancerous influences on his roster and laying down the law with the kids he brought in and the ones he didn't run off.

Add to that the fact that Trickett simply did not develop an offensive line going back as far as 2014. Despite making the playoffs the OL play was not good and Winston took an absolute beating that year.

Interesting observation about Taggart's short employment at FSU:

(11-04-2019 02:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Taggart is a disciplinarian

Least penalized teams in FBS football for teams coached by Taggart

2019 Florida State 126/130 (through 11/4)
2018 Florida State 130/130
2017 Oregon 129/130
2016 USF 86/128
2015 USF 46/128
2014 USF 81/128
2013 USF 124/125
2012 WKU 65/124
2011 WKU 115/120

Yes sir - Willie Taggart's middle name is discipline...

USFFan

I pointed this out elsewhere, but this hire is going to be complicated for FSU because their president is 75 years old and the speculation is that he's going to retire when his contract is up in November of 2020, and AD David Coburn is also in his 70's and has only been an AD at any level when he took over first as interim AD and then official AD last year at FSU. So with the considerable prospects that your boss (and your boss' boss) are probably going to be gone within the next 2 years, convincing a coach in a remotely stable position to move to Tallahassee isn't going to be easy.

Throw in the chaos of bringing the Seminole Boosters back into the department after years of autonomy and the uncertainty that that represents, and there's an awful lot of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ahead for whoever takes that job...

USFFan

Brent Venerables to me is the guy, but does he want to the headaches of the head coach?

(11-04-2019 12:59 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 09:33 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 08:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 08:15 AM)esayem Wrote:  Yes, that’s the problem here. Because the ACC hasn’t produced three champions this decade, including FSU.

Come on. The ACC didn't "produce" those champions. ACC football isn't like ACC basketball, where when a Virginia or Duke wins the national title you can say the ACC "produced" them, because competing in the rigorous ACC made them razor-sharp for competing in the NCAA tournament.

The only way one can say that the ACC helped FSU in the 1990s and in 2013, and Clemson the past 5 years, is in making it easy, via soft competitition, to have great records that made them well-rested for the playoffs. Not that they necessarily needed that, because they are very good teams, but it probably helped. But there was nothing along the lines of the conference schedule tempering their iron in to steel like it does in basketball.

The ACC does not 'produce' football national champions. FSU and Clemson produce their own championships, it's sheer coincidence they are based in the ACC.

Those teams were in the ACC, therefore that conference produced them.

That makes no sense. You have to look at how good the conference was independent of the national champ, and e.g. last year the ACC was the #4 conference, and that was with Clemson's results, which included wins in two NY6 bowl games. Take out Clemson (and the top teams from the other conferences) and they were surely last.

In 2013 when FSU won, the ACC finished last among the P5 conferences including FSU winning the BCS title game.

The ACC doesn't produce football champs, it hosts them. Or maybe it does, by being a very easy launching pad for a very good team to go undefeated and thus play for the title.

Can you name an SEC team that was somehow produced by the rigors of the conference schedule and not by incredible coaching? Do you have an example?

(are you Paul Finebaum? You can tell us, we will keep it secret! )

All SEC national champs are. The SEC forces any team to play at least 2 losable games, games where you play teams that are about as good as anyone you can face, and thus prepare you for the best anyone else in the country has to offer. Similar to what happens in the ACC in basketball.

But in football, the ACC just doesn't offer that. It offers the opposite, a clean route to an undefeated season. What was FSU's record in the ACC during the 1990s? Something like 70 - 2?

(11-04-2019 01:00 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:54 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 11:11 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 08:22 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Meh...Idk

FSU sorely needs a disciplinarian

Think more along the lines of Bob Stoops, Mark Stoops, Kirby Smart, Narduzzi

I don't want offensive gurumanship. I want to see fundamentals, Football basics 101, physical football

FSU needs someone who will bring in about 6-7 OL and at least one QB who can immediately contribute because as it stands right now you don't have either of those things in 2020.

Good observation Captain Obvious

I still think FSU fired Taggart too fast. Taggart's mode has been to take a year or two before turning things around.

Plus, not every great coach is an instant hit. E.g., Dabo was hired by Clemson during the 2008 season, and went 4-3. Then in 2009, he went 9-5, but in 2010, he went 6-7, capped by a loss to USF in a minor bowl.

So after 34 games, Dabo was 19-15, and 1-2 in minor bowls.

FSU probably would have fired him right then and there ...

You don't get it....which is fine, nothing wrong with that

No, time will tell who "gets it". You have no idea whether firing Taggart is the right move or not. Like me, you just have an opinion about it.

(11-04-2019 04:53 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Brent Venerables to me is the guy, but does he want to the headaches of the head coach?

Thus far he's shown little desire for a head coaching job.


And I seriously doubt he's willing to risk the plum job he's got to go to a dumpster fire that's growing larger by the minute where the boosters expect a 180 degree turnaround in less than a year and a half or else you are out of there.

(11-04-2019 03:31 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 02:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Taggart is a disciplinarian

Least penalized teams in FBS football for teams coached by Taggart

2019 Florida State 126/130 (through 11/4)
2018 Florida State 130/130
2017 Oregon 129/130
2016 USF 86/128
2015 USF 46/128
2014 USF 81/128
2013 USF 124/125
2012 WKU 65/124
2011 WKU 115/120

Yes sir - Willie Taggart's middle name is discipline...

USFFan

Lol

Willie seemed like a friendly guy...he came off to me like a friend of the players, instead of someone who was about to chew your ass off

I don't think Willie's approach is wrong, but FSU needs someone with some anger in their voice

(11-04-2019 04:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 01:00 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:54 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 11:11 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  FSU needs someone who will bring in about 6-7 OL and at least one QB who can immediately contribute because as it stands right now you don't have either of those things in 2020.

Good observation Captain Obvious

I still think FSU fired Taggart too fast. Taggart's mode has been to take a year or two before turning things around.

Plus, not every great coach is an instant hit. E.g., Dabo was hired by Clemson during the 2008 season, and went 4-3. Then in 2009, he went 9-5, but in 2010, he went 6-7, capped by a loss to USF in a minor bowl.

So after 34 games, Dabo was 19-15, and 1-2 in minor bowls.

FSU probably would have fired him right then and there ...

You don't get it....which is fine, nothing wrong with that

No, time will tell who "gets it". You have no idea whether firing Taggart is the right move or not. Like me, you just have an opinion about it.

I have watched FSU football since 1987. I am absolutely positive this is the right move. I know exactly what they need

You are someone that posts a whole lot of nothing on a constant basis

(11-04-2019 06:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 04:53 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Brent Venerables to me is the guy, but does he want to the headaches of the head coach?

Thus far he's shown little desire for a head coaching job.


And I seriously doubt he's willing to risk the plum job he's got to go to a dumpster fire that's growing larger by the minute where the boosters expect a 180 degree turnaround in less than a year and a half or else you are out of there.

I know you hate FSU and want to perceive it as a dumpsterfire, but FSU still has a chance to go to a bowl this year, and that would make 1 losing season in 40 years

Arkansas is a dumpsterfire

(11-04-2019 06:52 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 04:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 01:00 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:54 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Good observation Captain Obvious

I still think FSU fired Taggart too fast. Taggart's mode has been to take a year or two before turning things around.

Plus, not every great coach is an instant hit. E.g., Dabo was hired by Clemson during the 2008 season, and went 4-3. Then in 2009, he went 9-5, but in 2010, he went 6-7, capped by a loss to USF in a minor bowl.

So after 34 games, Dabo was 19-15, and 1-2 in minor bowls.

FSU probably would have fired him right then and there ...

You don't get it....which is fine, nothing wrong with that

No, time will tell who "gets it". You have no idea whether firing Taggart is the right move or not. Like me, you just have an opinion about it.

I have watched FSU football since 1987. I am absolutely positive this is the right move. I know exactly what they need

You are someone that posts a whole lot of nothing on a constant basis

I have watched FSU football since 1983.

You don't know anything. If you did, FSU would be calling you up to spearhead the search committee. I doubt they are doing that.

All you have is your hot-air opinion.

(11-04-2019 06:52 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 04:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 01:00 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 12:54 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Good observation Captain Obvious

I still think FSU fired Taggart too fast. Taggart's mode has been to take a year or two before turning things around.

Plus, not every great coach is an instant hit. E.g., Dabo was hired by Clemson during the 2008 season, and went 4-3. Then in 2009, he went 9-5, but in 2010, he went 6-7, capped by a loss to USF in a minor bowl.

So after 34 games, Dabo was 19-15, and 1-2 in minor bowls.

FSU probably would have fired him right then and there ...

You don't get it....which is fine, nothing wrong with that

No, time will tell who "gets it". You have no idea whether firing Taggart is the right move or not. Like me, you just have an opinion about it.

I have watched FSU football since 1987. I am absolutely positive this is the right move. I know exactly what they need

You are someone that posts a whole lot of nothing on a constant basis

Folks this is what is called a classic projection. Go for the argument, not the poster!

(11-04-2019 06:57 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 06:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 04:53 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Brent Venerables to me is the guy, but does he want to the headaches of the head coach?

Thus far he's shown little desire for a head coaching job.


And I seriously doubt he's willing to risk the plum job he's got to go to a dumpster fire that's growing larger by the minute where the boosters expect a 180 degree turnaround in less than a year and a half or else you are out of there.

I know you hate FSU and want to perceive it as a dumpsterfire, but FSU still has a chance to go to a bowl this year, and that would make 1 losing season in 40 years

Arkansas is a dumpsterfire

Arkansas hasn't sniffed a Natty since Lou Holtz was coach. F.S.U. won one in 2013. The fall at FSU has been rapid and intense. Whether they can lure a top notch coach will be the tell as to how long it takes them to try to dig back out of this hole.

(11-04-2019 06:57 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 06:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 04:53 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Brent Venerables to me is the guy, but does he want to the headaches of the head coach?

Thus far he's shown little desire for a head coaching job.


And I seriously doubt he's willing to risk the plum job he's got to go to a dumpster fire that's growing larger by the minute where the boosters expect a 180 degree turnaround in less than a year and a half or else you are out of there.

I know you hate FSU and want to perceive it as a dumpsterfire, but FSU still has a chance to go to a bowl this year, and that would make 1 losing season in 40 years

Arkansas is a dumpsterfire

I hate FSU? Since when?


If your football knowledge is anything like your ability to read a poster's intentions you don't know jack **** about football.

(11-04-2019 07:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 06:57 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 06:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 04:53 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Brent Venerables to me is the guy, but does he want to the headaches of the head coach?

Thus far he's shown little desire for a head coaching job.


And I seriously doubt he's willing to risk the plum job he's got to go to a dumpster fire that's growing larger by the minute where the boosters expect a 180 degree turnaround in less than a year and a half or else you are out of there.

I know you hate FSU and want to perceive it as a dumpsterfire, but FSU still has a chance to go to a bowl this year, and that would make 1 losing season in 40 years

Arkansas is a dumpsterfire

Arkansas hasn't sniffed a Natty since Lou Holtz was coach. F.S.U. won one in 2013. The fall at FSU has been rapid and intense. Whether they can lure a top notch coach will be the tell as to how long it takes them to try to dig back out of this hole.

Arkansas was pretty competitive under Petrino. They had the wildcat with Darren McFadden. They beat LSU in '07

They have won 1 SEC game in the last 3 years

FSU's situation is not that bad...they need someone to clean the lockerroom up instead of offensive gurus pampering them