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Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
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stever20 Online
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Post: #21
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-21-2019 07:31 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 07:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 05:00 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 04:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 04:23 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Packer and Durham pointed out an statistic that speaks to this issue.

As of the end of the day last Saturday October 19th, there have been 129 conference games played by teams in P5 conferences. Only 18 of those 129 games have been decided by 3 points or less.

Of those 18 games decided by 3 points or less.....
The ACC has played 8 while The SEC has played 1 And The Big Ten has only played 2.

The ACC went 11-1 FBS vs CUSA, MAC, SBC, and non ND Independents. That's not good. 8-10 vs real opponents.

The ACC also plays more P5 non conference games than any other as well as more P5 opponents on the road than The SEC or Big Ten.

In other words all non-conference schedules are not created equally. For example, the Big Ten doesn’t play FCS teams out of conference unlike SEC teams like Florida for example that played two.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...s-in-2019/

The ACC has already played 12 FCS teams.... With 3 more to go. So just stop the deflection. The ACC is by far the weakest conference in the P5.

You have a personal bias against The ACC, that’s OK. Facts cause problems for some people 07-coffee3

Yeah you're having problems with those facts.... The ACC this year is not good.

Having a good conference OOC SOS doesn't help you if you lose all the games. You don't get credit for scheduling tough, you get credit for you know actually winning those games.
10-21-2019 08:55 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
I thought the AP was supposed to be ranking Clemson, so why does it matter if ACC teams which aren't even on the Tigers schedule are having a bad season? Michigan State is terrible this year. So is Tennessee. Yet I don't hear anyone talking about them... Clemson has played a stronger slate so far than anyone in front of them. Trying to make it about the ACC vs SEC as a whole is a cop out.
10-21-2019 09:38 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #23
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-21-2019 09:38 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I thought the AP was supposed to be ranking Clemson, so why does it matter if ACC teams which aren't even on the Tigers schedule are having a bad season? Michigan State is terrible this year. So is Tennessee. Yet I don't hear anyone talking about them... Clemson has played a stronger slate so far than anyone in front of them. Trying to make it about the ACC vs SEC as a whole is a cop out.

Clemson has played a stronger slate than LSU? Who has played Florida and Texas. Give me a break....
10-21-2019 09:47 PM
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cubucks Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-21-2019 09:38 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I thought the AP was supposed to be ranking Clemson, so why does it matter if ACC teams which aren't even on the Tigers schedule are having a bad season? Michigan State is terrible this year. So is Tennessee. Yet I don't hear anyone talking about them... Clemson has played a stronger slate so far than anyone in front of them. Trying to make it about the ACC vs SEC as a whole is a cop out.
Like somebody said earlier, Clemson wins out and they are in.

You're talking strength of schedule? Michigan State is ok with their sos and teams they have lost to. Not great, but definitely not terrible.

You may want to look at the teams ahead of Clemson. I'd say LSU and Ohio State have nothing to be ashamed of.

Did Clemson deserve to drop? I really don't know? They have a very manageable schedule and the chance to shut everybody up. By the way, if your giving Texas A&M the benefit of the doubt, maybe do the same for others.
10-21-2019 09:55 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-21-2019 09:55 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 09:38 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I thought the AP was supposed to be ranking Clemson, so why does it matter if ACC teams which aren't even on the Tigers schedule are having a bad season? Michigan State is terrible this year. So is Tennessee. Yet I don't hear anyone talking about them... Clemson has played a stronger slate so far than anyone in front of them. Trying to make it about the ACC vs SEC as a whole is a cop out.
Like somebody said earlier, Clemson wins out and they are in.

You're talking strength of schedule? Michigan State is ok with their sos and teams they have lost to. Not great, but definitely not terrible.

You may want to look at the teams ahead of Clemson. I'd say LSU and Ohio State have nothing to be ashamed of.

Did Clemson deserve to drop? I really don't know? They have a very manageable schedule and the chance to shut everybody up. By the way, if your giving Texas A&M the benefit of the doubt, maybe do the same for others.

To be fair, one can argue that Ohio State has played the toughest schedule of the top four so far. However, consider these points in Clemson's favor:

1. Clemson has played 6 P5 teams - the other three have only played 4 each.
2. LSU has also played an FCS team - none of the other top 3 have played one.
3. While Clemson's opponents do have a composite losing record, it's still better than the composite record of Alabama's opponents.

Maybe Clemson ends up being the 4th-best team (or worse?), but right now there isn't any data that says they shouldn't be #1 right now (although I'll listen to an argument for #2 behind Ohio State). The teams which are ranked too high are Alabama and LSU, IMO.
10-21-2019 11:24 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #26
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-21-2019 11:24 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 09:55 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 09:38 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I thought the AP was supposed to be ranking Clemson, so why does it matter if ACC teams which aren't even on the Tigers schedule are having a bad season? Michigan State is terrible this year. So is Tennessee. Yet I don't hear anyone talking about them... Clemson has played a stronger slate so far than anyone in front of them. Trying to make it about the ACC vs SEC as a whole is a cop out.
Like somebody said earlier, Clemson wins out and they are in.

You're talking strength of schedule? Michigan State is ok with their sos and teams they have lost to. Not great, but definitely not terrible.

You may want to look at the teams ahead of Clemson. I'd say LSU and Ohio State have nothing to be ashamed of.

Did Clemson deserve to drop? I really don't know? They have a very manageable schedule and the chance to shut everybody up. By the way, if your giving Texas A&M the benefit of the doubt, maybe do the same for others.

To be fair, one can argue that Ohio State has played the toughest schedule of the top four so far. However, consider these points in Clemson's favor:

1. Clemson has played 6 P5 teams - the other three have only played 4 each.
2. LSU has also played an FCS team - none of the other top 3 have played one.
3. While Clemson's opponents do have a composite losing record, it's still better than the composite record of Alabama's opponents.

Maybe Clemson ends up being the 4th-best team (or worse?), but right now there isn't any data that says they shouldn't be #1 right now (although I'll listen to an argument for #2 behind Ohio State). The teams which are ranked too high are Alabama and LSU, IMO.

So just because Clemson played Charlotte instead of a FCS team- that's supposed to overcome LSU having beaten 2 of the top 15 teams in the country. GTFO with that moronic stuff....

And looking at Sagarin, the SOS has it as-
LSU 41
Clemson 43
Alabama 52

the problem for Clemson with that is that they've looked by far the worst of the 3.
10-22-2019 06:36 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-21-2019 08:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 07:31 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 07:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 05:00 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 04:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The ACC went 11-1 FBS vs CUSA, MAC, SBC, and non ND Independents. That's not good. 8-10 vs real opponents.

The ACC also plays more P5 non conference games than any other as well as more P5 opponents on the road than The SEC or Big Ten.

In other words all non-conference schedules are not created equally. For example, the Big Ten doesn’t play FCS teams out of conference unlike SEC teams like Florida for example that played two.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...s-in-2019/

The ACC has already played 12 FCS teams.... With 3 more to go. So just stop the deflection. The ACC is by far the weakest conference in the P5.

You have a personal bias against The ACC, that’s OK. Facts cause problems for some people 07-coffee3

Yeah you're having problems with those facts.... The ACC this year is not good.

Having a good conference OOC SOS doesn't help you if you lose all the games. You don't get credit for scheduling tough, you get credit for you know actually winning those games.

Yet the ACC has more teams with winning records at this point than the SEC. But it’s the ACC that’s not good. OK. /sarc
10-22-2019 07:50 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 07:50 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 08:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 07:31 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 07:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 05:00 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The ACC also plays more P5 non conference games than any other as well as more P5 opponents on the road than The SEC or Big Ten.

In other words all non-conference schedules are not created equally. For example, the Big Ten doesn’t play FCS teams out of conference unlike SEC teams like Florida for example that played two.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...s-in-2019/

The ACC has already played 12 FCS teams.... With 3 more to go. So just stop the deflection. The ACC is by far the weakest conference in the P5.

You have a personal bias against The ACC, that’s OK. Facts cause problems for some people 07-coffee3

Yeah you're having problems with those facts.... The ACC this year is not good.

Having a good conference OOC SOS doesn't help you if you lose all the games. You don't get credit for scheduling tough, you get credit for you know actually winning those games.

Yet the ACC has more teams with winning records at this point than the SEC. But it’s the ACC that’s not good. OK. /sarc
SEC 6 teams with winning records over FBS opposition
ACC 5 teams with winning records over FBS opposition
OOPS....

The 2 SEC divisions are 1 and 5 in Sagarin right now.
The 2 ACC divisions are 9 and 10 in Sagarin right now.

ACC 2 top 30 wins so far this year
SEC 4 top 30 wins OOC so far this year

You don't want to be comparing the ACC to SEC dude. Not this year.
10-22-2019 07:57 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 07:57 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 07:50 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 08:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 07:31 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 07:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The ACC has already played 12 FCS teams.... With 3 more to go. So just stop the deflection. The ACC is by far the weakest conference in the P5.

You have a personal bias against The ACC, that’s OK. Facts cause problems for some people 07-coffee3

Yeah you're having problems with those facts.... The ACC this year is not good.


Having a good conference OOC SOS doesn't help you if you lose all the games. You don't get credit for scheduling tough, you get credit for you know actually winning those games.

Yet the ACC has more teams with winning records at this point than the SEC. But it’s the ACC that’s not good. OK. /sarc
SEC 6 teams with winning records over FBS opposition
ACC 5 teams with winning records over FBS opposition
OOPS....

The 2 SEC divisions are 1 and 5 in Sagarin right now.
The 2 ACC divisions are 9 and 10 in Sagarin right now.

ACC 2 top 30 wins so far this year
SEC 4 top 30 wins OOC so far this year

You don't want to be comparing the ACC to SEC dude. Not this year.

I’m not the insecure little fella comparing them, you are. You switched to that narrative after your “Clemson isn’t as good as last year” narrative got destroyed. It’s your MO, you have always had a burr under your saddle about the ACC and when you are proven wrong on something you change the narrative.
10-22-2019 08:05 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 08:05 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 07:57 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 07:50 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 08:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 07:31 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  You have a personal bias against The ACC, that’s OK. Facts cause problems for some people 07-coffee3

Yeah you're having problems with those facts.... The ACC this year is not good.


Having a good conference OOC SOS doesn't help you if you lose all the games. You don't get credit for scheduling tough, you get credit for you know actually winning those games.

Yet the ACC has more teams with winning records at this point than the SEC. But it’s the ACC that’s not good. OK. /sarc
SEC 6 teams with winning records over FBS opposition
ACC 5 teams with winning records over FBS opposition
OOPS....

The 2 SEC divisions are 1 and 5 in Sagarin right now.
The 2 ACC divisions are 9 and 10 in Sagarin right now.

ACC 2 top 30 wins so far this year
SEC 4 top 30 wins OOC so far this year

You don't want to be comparing the ACC to SEC dude. Not this year.

I’m not the insecure little fella comparing them, you are. You switched to that narrative after your “Clemson isn’t as good as last year” narrative got destroyed. It’s your MO, you have always had a burr under your saddle about the ACC and when you are proven wrong on something you change the narrative.

Clemson isn't as good as they were last year. Beat UNC by 1 point- and only because UNC went for 2?

And sorry, but the ACC does suck this year.

Clemson would be wise to not lose. If they lose, they aren't making the playoffs....
10-22-2019 08:12 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 08:12 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 08:05 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 07:57 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 07:50 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 08:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Yeah you're having problems with those facts.... The ACC this year is not good.


Having a good conference OOC SOS doesn't help you if you lose all the games. You don't get credit for scheduling tough, you get credit for you know actually winning those games.

Yet the ACC has more teams with winning records at this point than the SEC. But it’s the ACC that’s not good. OK. /sarc
SEC 6 teams with winning records over FBS opposition
ACC 5 teams with winning records over FBS opposition
OOPS....

The 2 SEC divisions are 1 and 5 in Sagarin right now.
The 2 ACC divisions are 9 and 10 in Sagarin right now.

ACC 2 top 30 wins so far this year
SEC 4 top 30 wins OOC so far this year

You don't want to be comparing the ACC to SEC dude. Not this year.

I’m not the insecure little fella comparing them, you are. You switched to that narrative after your “Clemson isn’t as good as last year” narrative got destroyed. It’s your MO, you have always had a burr under your saddle about the ACC and when you are proven wrong on something you change the narrative.

Clemson isn't as good as they were last year. Beat UNC by 1 point- and only because UNC went for 2?

And sorry, but the ACC does suck this year.

Clemson would be wise to not lose. If they lose, they aren't making the playoffs....

Statistically you would be wrong.

Last year we beat A&M because they failed to convert a two point conversion as well. UNC beat the mighty SEC’s South Carolina this year.

And any team that loses a game is at risk of not making the playoffs so way to go out on a limb there Scooter.

And Clemson is for sure way better than the team you are too ashamed to admit you pull for.
10-22-2019 09:07 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 09:07 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 08:12 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 08:05 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 07:57 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 07:50 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  Yet the ACC has more teams with winning records at this point than the SEC. But it’s the ACC that’s not good. OK. /sarc
SEC 6 teams with winning records over FBS opposition
ACC 5 teams with winning records over FBS opposition
OOPS....

The 2 SEC divisions are 1 and 5 in Sagarin right now.
The 2 ACC divisions are 9 and 10 in Sagarin right now.

ACC 2 top 30 wins so far this year
SEC 4 top 30 wins OOC so far this year

You don't want to be comparing the ACC to SEC dude. Not this year.

I’m not the insecure little fella comparing them, you are. You switched to that narrative after your “Clemson isn’t as good as last year” narrative got destroyed. It’s your MO, you have always had a burr under your saddle about the ACC and when you are proven wrong on something you change the narrative.

Clemson isn't as good as they were last year. Beat UNC by 1 point- and only because UNC went for 2?

And sorry, but the ACC does suck this year.

Clemson would be wise to not lose. If they lose, they aren't making the playoffs....

Statistically you would be wrong.

Last year we beat A&M because they failed to convert a two point conversion as well. UNC beat the mighty SEC’s South Carolina this year.

And any team that loses a game is at risk of not making the playoffs so way to go out on a limb there Scooter.

And Clemson is for sure way better than the team you are too ashamed to admit you pull for.
Several teams right now could lose a game and still have a great chance of making the playoff....

Clemson on the other hand, wouldn't. If Clemson loses a game, they have pretty much no chance of making the playoff. Any loss Clemson takes would be an awful loss- one of the worst on the board of any potential playoff team.
10-22-2019 09:12 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-21-2019 08:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Yeah you're having problems with those facts.... The ACC this year is not good.

The ACC has not been good this year, all the computers have them ranked last among the P5. That cuts through all the talk about winning records and OOC schedules and everything else.

But that said, the season is only half over. We have to wait until after the late-season OOC rivalry games, and then the bowl games, to know how good or bad any conference was.

As for Clemson, it doesn't matter where they are ranked. They are in if they win out. And getting in is all that matters. Doesn't matter if you are the #1 seed or the #4 seed, nobody gets to play at home or gets to start a game with a 7-point lead because they are the higher seed. IIRC, the #4 seed has won the CFP playoffs more times than the #1 seed has.

Yes, unlike say an Alabama, the soft SOS means Clemson can't afford to lose a game and still get in. But with the softness of their schedule, and how good they are, they aren't losing a game. Teams like Alabama and LSU and Ohio State and even Oklahoma have genuinely challenging games left. Clemson doesn't, so they are easily the team that is most likely to make the playoffs.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 10:29 AM by quo vadis.)
10-22-2019 10:26 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 10:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 08:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Yeah you're having problems with those facts.... The ACC this year is not good.

The ACC has not been good this year, all the computers have them ranked last among the P5. That cuts through all the talk about winning records and OOC schedules and everything else.

But that said, the season is only half over. We have to wait until after the late-season OOC rivalry games, and then the bowl games, to know how good or bad any conference was.

As for Clemson, it doesn't matter where they are ranked. They are in if they win out. And getting in is all that matters. Doesn't matter if you are the #1 seed or the #4 seed, nobody gets to play at home or gets to start a game with a 7-point lead because they are the higher seed. IIRC, the #4 seed has won the CFP playoffs more times than the #1 seed has.

Yes, unlike say an Alabama, the soft SOS means Clemson can't afford to lose a game and still get in. But with the softness of their schedule, and how good they are, they aren't losing a game. Teams like Alabama and LSU and Ohio State and even Oklahoma have genuinely challenging games left. Clemson doesn't, so they are easily the team that is most likely to make the playoffs.

I'd say for Clemson it makes a pretty big difference if they're only 2 or 3 as they would have to travel to Arizona instead of getting to play in Atlanta.... Think we'd see something similar to last year if they got #4, you'd see the bowl switched to protect the 1 seed.
10-22-2019 10:35 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 10:35 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 08:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Yeah you're having problems with those facts.... The ACC this year is not good.

The ACC has not been good this year, all the computers have them ranked last among the P5. That cuts through all the talk about winning records and OOC schedules and everything else.

But that said, the season is only half over. We have to wait until after the late-season OOC rivalry games, and then the bowl games, to know how good or bad any conference was.

As for Clemson, it doesn't matter where they are ranked. They are in if they win out. And getting in is all that matters. Doesn't matter if you are the #1 seed or the #4 seed, nobody gets to play at home or gets to start a game with a 7-point lead because they are the higher seed. IIRC, the #4 seed has won the CFP playoffs more times than the #1 seed has.

Yes, unlike say an Alabama, the soft SOS means Clemson can't afford to lose a game and still get in. But with the softness of their schedule, and how good they are, they aren't losing a game. Teams like Alabama and LSU and Ohio State and even Oklahoma have genuinely challenging games left. Clemson doesn't, so they are easily the team that is most likely to make the playoffs.

I'd say for Clemson it makes a pretty big difference if they're only 2 or 3 as they would have to travel to Arizona instead of getting to play in Atlanta.... Think we'd see something similar to last year if they got #4, you'd see the bowl switched to protect the 1 seed.

If Clemson was an NFL team where they play in Charlotte on Sunday and then either get to travel to Atlanta, or Phoenix, for a quick-turnaround Thursday night game four days later, yes, it would matter.

But this is a bowl game. Clemson will have 3+ weeks after the ACC title game to travel to Phoenix. All the time in the world to adjust, so zero problem.
10-22-2019 10:53 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 10:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:35 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 08:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Yeah you're having problems with those facts.... The ACC this year is not good.

The ACC has not been good this year, all the computers have them ranked last among the P5. That cuts through all the talk about winning records and OOC schedules and everything else.

But that said, the season is only half over. We have to wait until after the late-season OOC rivalry games, and then the bowl games, to know how good or bad any conference was.

As for Clemson, it doesn't matter where they are ranked. They are in if they win out. And getting in is all that matters. Doesn't matter if you are the #1 seed or the #4 seed, nobody gets to play at home or gets to start a game with a 7-point lead because they are the higher seed. IIRC, the #4 seed has won the CFP playoffs more times than the #1 seed has.

Yes, unlike say an Alabama, the soft SOS means Clemson can't afford to lose a game and still get in. But with the softness of their schedule, and how good they are, they aren't losing a game. Teams like Alabama and LSU and Ohio State and even Oklahoma have genuinely challenging games left. Clemson doesn't, so they are easily the team that is most likely to make the playoffs.

I'd say for Clemson it makes a pretty big difference if they're only 2 or 3 as they would have to travel to Arizona instead of getting to play in Atlanta.... Think we'd see something similar to last year if they got #4, you'd see the bowl switched to protect the 1 seed.

If Clemson was an NFL team where they play in Charlotte on Sunday and then either get to travel to Atlanta, or Phoenix, for a quick-turnaround Thursday night game four days later, yes, it would matter.

But this is a bowl game. Clemson will have 3+ weeks after the ACC title game to travel to Phoenix. All the time in the world to adjust, so zero problem.
I'd say the # of fans going to the game would be a huge difference. Also it's only 3 weeks and you have in there exams, holidays, etc. Wouldn't be ideal. Whoever finishes #1 and gets to play in the Peach Bowl is going to have a big advantage.
10-22-2019 10:56 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 10:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:35 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-21-2019 08:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Yeah you're having problems with those facts.... The ACC this year is not good.

The ACC has not been good this year, all the computers have them ranked last among the P5. That cuts through all the talk about winning records and OOC schedules and everything else.

But that said, the season is only half over. We have to wait until after the late-season OOC rivalry games, and then the bowl games, to know how good or bad any conference was.

As for Clemson, it doesn't matter where they are ranked. They are in if they win out. And getting in is all that matters. Doesn't matter if you are the #1 seed or the #4 seed, nobody gets to play at home or gets to start a game with a 7-point lead because they are the higher seed. IIRC, the #4 seed has won the CFP playoffs more times than the #1 seed has.

Yes, unlike say an Alabama, the soft SOS means Clemson can't afford to lose a game and still get in. But with the softness of their schedule, and how good they are, they aren't losing a game. Teams like Alabama and LSU and Ohio State and even Oklahoma have genuinely challenging games left. Clemson doesn't, so they are easily the team that is most likely to make the playoffs.

I'd say for Clemson it makes a pretty big difference if they're only 2 or 3 as they would have to travel to Arizona instead of getting to play in Atlanta.... Think we'd see something similar to last year if they got #4, you'd see the bowl switched to protect the 1 seed.

If Clemson was an NFL team where they play in Charlotte on Sunday and then either get to travel to Atlanta, or Phoenix, for a quick-turnaround Thursday night game four days later, yes, it would matter.

But this is a bowl game. Clemson will have 3+ weeks after the ACC title game to travel to Phoenix. All the time in the world to adjust, so zero problem.
I'd say the # of fans going to the game would be a huge difference. Also it's only 3 weeks and you have in there exams, holidays, etc. Wouldn't be ideal. Whoever finishes #1 and gets to play in the Peach Bowl is going to have a big advantage.

Well, Phoenix is pretty isolated. So it could very well be far away from the other team too. I mean, if Clemson plays Alabama or Ohio State there, they will be traveling a long way to Phoenix too. Even Oklahoma is almost a thousand miles from Phoenix, so it's not like they will be playing Arizona State there.

Plus, if say Alabama is the #1 seed and Clemson is #4, then Clemson will get to play in the Peach Bowl anyway.

There is just no evidence that seeding matters at all in the CFP.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 11:02 AM by quo vadis.)
10-22-2019 11:00 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #38
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 11:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:35 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The ACC has not been good this year, all the computers have them ranked last among the P5. That cuts through all the talk about winning records and OOC schedules and everything else.

But that said, the season is only half over. We have to wait until after the late-season OOC rivalry games, and then the bowl games, to know how good or bad any conference was.

As for Clemson, it doesn't matter where they are ranked. They are in if they win out. And getting in is all that matters. Doesn't matter if you are the #1 seed or the #4 seed, nobody gets to play at home or gets to start a game with a 7-point lead because they are the higher seed. IIRC, the #4 seed has won the CFP playoffs more times than the #1 seed has.

Yes, unlike say an Alabama, the soft SOS means Clemson can't afford to lose a game and still get in. But with the softness of their schedule, and how good they are, they aren't losing a game. Teams like Alabama and LSU and Ohio State and even Oklahoma have genuinely challenging games left. Clemson doesn't, so they are easily the team that is most likely to make the playoffs.

I'd say for Clemson it makes a pretty big difference if they're only 2 or 3 as they would have to travel to Arizona instead of getting to play in Atlanta.... Think we'd see something similar to last year if they got #4, you'd see the bowl switched to protect the 1 seed.

If Clemson was an NFL team where they play in Charlotte on Sunday and then either get to travel to Atlanta, or Phoenix, for a quick-turnaround Thursday night game four days later, yes, it would matter.

But this is a bowl game. Clemson will have 3+ weeks after the ACC title game to travel to Phoenix. All the time in the world to adjust, so zero problem.
I'd say the # of fans going to the game would be a huge difference. Also it's only 3 weeks and you have in there exams, holidays, etc. Wouldn't be ideal. Whoever finishes #1 and gets to play in the Peach Bowl is going to have a big advantage.

Well, Phoenix could very well be far away from the other team too. I mean, if Clemson plays Alabama or Ohio State there, they will be traveling a long way to Phoenix too. Even Oklahoma is almost a thousand miles from Phoenix, so it's not like they will be playing Arizona State there.

Plus, if say Alabama is the #1 seed and Clemson is #4, then Clemson will get to play in the Peach Bowl anyway.

There is just no evidence that seeding matters at all in the CFP.

They may very well game the seeding so Clemson is 3 and has to go out to Arizona and whoever was 3 is 4 and goes to Atlanta... They aren't putting the #1 team at a disadvantage(they showed that last season).
10-22-2019 11:02 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 11:02 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 11:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:35 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd say for Clemson it makes a pretty big difference if they're only 2 or 3 as they would have to travel to Arizona instead of getting to play in Atlanta.... Think we'd see something similar to last year if they got #4, you'd see the bowl switched to protect the 1 seed.

If Clemson was an NFL team where they play in Charlotte on Sunday and then either get to travel to Atlanta, or Phoenix, for a quick-turnaround Thursday night game four days later, yes, it would matter.

But this is a bowl game. Clemson will have 3+ weeks after the ACC title game to travel to Phoenix. All the time in the world to adjust, so zero problem.
I'd say the # of fans going to the game would be a huge difference. Also it's only 3 weeks and you have in there exams, holidays, etc. Wouldn't be ideal. Whoever finishes #1 and gets to play in the Peach Bowl is going to have a big advantage.

Well, Phoenix could very well be far away from the other team too. I mean, if Clemson plays Alabama or Ohio State there, they will be traveling a long way to Phoenix too. Even Oklahoma is almost a thousand miles from Phoenix, so it's not like they will be playing Arizona State there.

Plus, if say Alabama is the #1 seed and Clemson is #4, then Clemson will get to play in the Peach Bowl anyway.

There is just no evidence that seeding matters at all in the CFP.

They may very well game the seeding so Clemson is 3 and has to go out to Arizona and whoever was 3 is 4 and goes to Atlanta... They aren't putting the #1 team at a disadvantage(they showed that last season).

IIRC, last year they didn't change the seedings. What they did was, they let Alabama choose to play OK in the Orange Bowl, rather than the Cotton Bowl. We never knew before last year that the #1 seed has a choice of venue, but apparently they do.

And if Alabama is #1 and Clemson is #4, Alabama will gladly choose the Peach because that is very close to them, too. No disadvantage there for them.
10-22-2019 11:06 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #40
RE: Clemson is the First 2000s-2010s AP Preseason Number 1 to Fourth While Undefeated
(10-22-2019 11:06 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 11:02 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 11:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 10:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If Clemson was an NFL team where they play in Charlotte on Sunday and then either get to travel to Atlanta, or Phoenix, for a quick-turnaround Thursday night game four days later, yes, it would matter.

But this is a bowl game. Clemson will have 3+ weeks after the ACC title game to travel to Phoenix. All the time in the world to adjust, so zero problem.
I'd say the # of fans going to the game would be a huge difference. Also it's only 3 weeks and you have in there exams, holidays, etc. Wouldn't be ideal. Whoever finishes #1 and gets to play in the Peach Bowl is going to have a big advantage.

Well, Phoenix could very well be far away from the other team too. I mean, if Clemson plays Alabama or Ohio State there, they will be traveling a long way to Phoenix too. Even Oklahoma is almost a thousand miles from Phoenix, so it's not like they will be playing Arizona State there.

Plus, if say Alabama is the #1 seed and Clemson is #4, then Clemson will get to play in the Peach Bowl anyway.

There is just no evidence that seeding matters at all in the CFP.

They may very well game the seeding so Clemson is 3 and has to go out to Arizona and whoever was 3 is 4 and goes to Atlanta... They aren't putting the #1 team at a disadvantage(they showed that last season).

IIRC, last year they didn't change the seedings. What they did was, they let Alabama choose to play OK in the Orange Bowl, rather than the Cotton Bowl. We never knew before last year that the #1 seed has a choice of venue, but apparently they do.

And if Alabama is #1 and Clemson is #4, Alabama will gladly choose the Peach because that is very close to them, too. No disadvantage there for them.

It will be interesting. Maybe Clemson will dominate from here on- don't think it'll be enough to get into the top 2, but still. I think Alabama/LSU winner if they run the table- impossible to dislodge them from #1. I think the Ohio St/Penn St winner- if they run the table- impossible to dislodge them from #2. It'd be between Clemson and Oklahoma for #3.
10-22-2019 11:09 AM
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