The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Judging football records is probably the worst way to evaluate a Kent AD. With only a handful of winning seasons I don't think any AD in the past would have a good record. Best way would be overall championships throughout the whole department.

(09-12-2019 09:13 PM)ilovegymnast Wrote:  Judging football records is probably the worst way to evaluate a Kent AD. With only a handful of winning seasons I don't think any AD in the past would have a good record. Best way would be overall championships throughout the whole department.

I think you make an excellent point ilovegymnast.

The video I posted on YouTube (link below) lists some of the overall numbers, although it doesn't include total MAC championships.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKESel609YU

It does list the combined records and total championships in the MAC's four "priority sports" – Football, Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball and Volleyball.

These numbers do not include games from the current athletic season.

Football in 9 years under Nielsen: 37-72 (0.339) with 0 MAC championships
Football in previous 9 years under Kennedy: 38-67 (0.362) with 0 MAC championships

Volleyball in 9 years under Nielsen: 126-147 (0.462) with 0 MAC championships
Volleyball in previous 9 years under Kennedy: 128-136 (0.484) with 0 MAC championships

Men's Basketball in 9 years under Nielsen: 186-121 (0.605) with 1 MAC Championship.
Men's Basketball in previous 9 years under Kennedy: 211-89 (0.703) with 3 MAC Championships.

Women's Basketball in 9 years under Nielsen: 99-174 (0.363) with 0 MAC Championships.
Women's Basketball in previous 9 years under Kennedy: 160-107 (0.599) with 4 MAC titles.

So in 9 years under Nielsen, that's 1 MAC Championship combined in all four MAC priority sports. Kennedy won 7 MAC championships in sports that would become MAC priority sports.

I recently compiled all of the records and championships in all sports in a comparison between Nielsen and Kennedy over those nine-year periods.

I'll look for those numbers if you are interested. I do know that the advantage again goes to Kennedy. Note, as I mentioned earlier, the only sports with better records in Nielsen's 9 years are women's track and field, men's track and field and women's soccer.

Sports with better records in Kennedy's last nine years include football, volleyball, men's and women's basketball, baseball, men's and women's cross country, field hockey, wrestling, softball and gymnastics.

Men's and Women's Golf continue to be the class of the MAC, and while I consider both to be "holding steady" under Nielsen, men's golf does have more championships during Nielsen's tenure.

Of course, golf success at Kent State has absolutely nothing to do with Nielsen and everything to do with fantastic coaching staffs led by Herb Page, Greg Robertson and Mike Morrow. From donors to many coaches past and present and former student athletes, the people in and around the golf programs at KSU will tell you that golf's success has continued despite Nielsen.

Men's and Women's Golf were the ONLY two teams to win championships in 2018-19, which is as poor an athletic year at Kent State during the nine years of Nielsen combined with the last nine years under Kennedy.

It should be noted that the head coaches of those teams, Herb Page and Greg Robertson, are no longer on staff.

(09-12-2019 11:13 PM)DavidCarducci Wrote:  I recently compiled all of the records and championships in all sports in a comparison between Nielsen and Kennedy over those nine-year periods.

Men's and Women's Golf continue to be the class of the MAC

Comparing numbers is one thing, but Laing was the class of the MAC. He was well respected from those he encountered from the athletes to the donors, those employed in the department and onward throughout the conference and NCAA.

(09-13-2019 08:24 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(09-12-2019 11:13 PM)DavidCarducci Wrote:  I recently compiled all of the records and championships in all sports in a comparison between Nielsen and Kennedy over those nine-year periods.

Men's and Women's Golf continue to be the class of the MAC

Comparing numbers is one thing, but Laing was the class of the MAC. He was well respected from those he encountered from the athletes to the donors, those employed in the department and onward throughout the conference and NCAA.

I couldn't agree with you more!

One of the best. I've been talking with multiple former coaches, student athletes and members of athletics senior staff, as well as some major donors both to athletics and the university as a whole, and words similar to yours have been repeated over and over again. People can't believe what has happened to this athletic department.

The good news is there is now an opportunity for change that will benefit Kent State. The president's message and the announcement of an investigation is extremely encouraging.

Nielsen's buyout is only $100,000. I thought he had only one more year left, but he has two, so a buyout would save the university more than $900,000 when you add in contributions to his retirement. If the investigation leads KSU to look into more than just what happened on Saturday, I believe Nielsen could be removed for cause, saving the university the buyout.

Bring in a new athletic director with new ideas at even better than the MAC average and KSU Athletics would have close to an extra half a million dollars to benefit its teams and student athletes over the next two years.

Of course, I was an English major. My math may be off!

When you add up all of the fiascos under his watch I don’t know how he has survived this long. Title IX, firing of many long term loyal employees, rape lawsuit, 90Ksu ticket drive, Cope Court, Field Hockey & Fireworks...SMH

The comparisons Dave identifies are eye-opening. And looking at this objectively, one would have to take a hard look at the AD’s tenure with the university. For comparison, if the AD position was a sales position, I doubt the sales manager would keep on a salesperson for nine years, who does not improve the bottom line (including ROI) & was not an improvement from his/her predecessor. If you don’t perform, you don’t last. But then again, I do not know how the AD’s performance is measured.

In fairness, the baseball program is not included in the comparison. Going to the CWS was a highlight, along with the hiring of the head coach. Also, it would be interesting to see the comparison of academics. KSU is elevating its status when it comes to academics & the new president is reinforcing this, but not sure if the AD has any direct influence on this.

For KSU to be such a large & distinguished D1 institution, I feel we have not transcended our athletic program status (with the exception of women’s & men’s golf) to where KSU should or wants to be.

I remain optimistic that brighter days are ahead.

#GoFlashes

Today I received an email from Pres. Diacon, as I'm sure others in the Alumni Assoc. here did as well. It was titled "We Must Do Better" and promises an investigation to get to the heart of what was an embarrassing situation for the university.

I hope once people are heard, the deeper problems in the Athletic department will be revealed and the appropriate action will be taken to clean up the mess at the top.

(09-13-2019 02:35 PM)Albert Flasher Wrote:  The comparisons Dave identifies are eye-opening. And looking at this objectively, one would have to take a hard look at the AD’s tenure with the university. For comparison, if the AD position was a sales position, I doubt the sales manager would keep on a salesperson for nine years, who does not improve the bottom line (including ROI) & was not an improvement from his/her predecessor. If you don’t perform, you don’t last. But then again, I do not know how the AD’s performance is measured.

In fairness, the baseball program is not included in the comparison. Going to the CWS was a highlight, along with the hiring of the head coach. Also, it would be interesting to see the comparison of academics. KSU is elevating its status when it comes to academics & the new president is reinforcing this, but not sure if the AD has any direct influence on this.

For KSU to be such a large & distinguished D1 institution, I feel we have not transcended our athletic program status (with the exception of women’s & men’s golf) to where KSU should or wants to be.

I remain optimistic that brighter days are ahead.

#GoFlashes

In fairness to Nielsen, academics have improved in the last 10 years. KSU has always had a strong academic support staff, and while there has been quite a bit of turnover in that office, the staff there continues to do an excellent job.

The baseball numbers are pretty similar, although the slight edge goes to Kennedy.

Baseball in the nine years under Nielsen: 346-179 (0.659) with 4 MAC championships.
Baseball in the previous nine years under Kennedy: 331-170 (0.661) with 5 MAC championships.

Baseball has been healthy for quite a while at Kent State. So many good coaches and Mike Birkbeck being a common thread through it all.

In those nine years under Kennedy, KSU never went more than two years in a row without winning the MAC. The championship seasons in the Nielsen years came early with three MAC titles in the first four years. Since then, KSU has won one MAC championship in the last 5 years.

This is all probably worth another thread, since this is supposed to be about the Kennesaw State game.

Maybe a thread about whether or not it's time for new leadership? A poll? Is it time, and if so, should KSU buy him out for $100,000 with 2 years remaining or does he deserve to be removed for cause?

(09-13-2019 06:36 PM)axeme Wrote:  Today I received an email from Pres. Diacon, as I'm sure others in the Alumni Assoc. here did as well. It was titled "We Must Do Better" and promises an investigation to get to the heart of what was an embarrassing situation for the university.

I hope once people are heard, the deeper problems in the Athletic department will be revealed and the appropriate action will be taken to clean up the mess at the top.

Hi Axeme,

I thought the letter from President Diacon was excellent and the kind of healing statement Kent State University needed.

I was extremely impressed by it. And I've talked with several people at the university and believe they are serious about dealing with the problem at hand, and I'm hopeful the investigation will reveal the need to expand its scope.

President Diacon inherited this problem, so I am extremely sympathetic to what this week must have been like for him and for his staff. I've met him several times, and while I can't say I know him, I like what I hear from people I trust who know him well. I'm told he is a rational person who will want to understand the full picture.

Got the email too and while I thought it was really nice also thought it started out with the wrong word, “we” wasn’t “we” that screwed the pooch it was Joel. I know the school isn’t big on buyouts but like Dave states above, they could go with the buyout and backfill with somebody getting fair market value for the MAC and still save money in the end.

For what it’s worth President Diacon also recently announced a university-wide hiring freeze.

Regarding attendance at the first football game. Many of
us regulars seriously question the announced
18679. Stadium once had a 30,000 capacity,
Since removal of 5000 seats and installation of
yellow high school bleachers, it is much less,
KSU claims 25000. If correct , first game had
thousands of ghosts in the stands. Press box side
was no more than 60% full and end zone totally
empty. Students count but get in free.

It is well known that most years season ticket sales
Are below 1000. Basketball used to have more
season ticket holders than Football,
although due to alienating many
Donors that is way off also.

Clearly neither sport produces much revenue
Beyond big pay days vs Power 5 teams .
Don’t forget Kennesaw St is paid a guarantee
also. Likely $300-$350K

A member for 22 months and still is your first post? Ok...

You do touch on a point I've wonder for a while. How much do we pay our FCS opponents to come in? Is that the reason we schedule good FCS schools because we can get a cheaper deal if they think they have a chance to come in and win? With our history I imagine we're a really exciting team to schedule for top FCS schools.

From the USA Today on us selling ours souls:

“Kent State also will have played Kennesaw State, a Football Championship Subdivision school it is paying $300,000 for a game Sept. 7”

(09-16-2019 08:54 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  You do touch on a point I've wonder for a while. How much do we pay our FCS opponents to come in? Is that the reason we schedule good FCS schools because we can get a cheaper deal if they think they have a chance to come in and win? With our history I imagine we're a really exciting team to schedule for top FCS schools.

Agree,
When this game was scheduled Kennesaw
St was new to FBS and I’m sure only saw Kent
as a payday, but others who have come here
Delaware St, NC A&T , certainly thought it was
a winnable game. Why can Womens
BB get a home game with OSU and men
Play Hiram (div III) and Concord ( div II)?
Our “ esteemed” men’s BB program can no longer
even schedule YSU, and they expect fans to turn
out for Hiram ?

(09-16-2019 09:12 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  From the USA Today on us selling ours souls:

“Kent State also will have played Kennesaw State, a Football Championship Subdivision school it is paying $300,000 for a game Sept. 7”

Any idea how that compares to normal FBS vs. FCS games?

(09-17-2019 08:07 AM)Older and Older Wrote:  

(09-16-2019 08:54 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  You do touch on a point I've wonder for a while. How much do we pay our FCS opponents to come in? Is that the reason we schedule good FCS schools because we can get a cheaper deal if they think they have a chance to come in and win? With our history I imagine we're a really exciting team to schedule for top FCS schools.

Agree,
When this game was scheduled Kennesaw
St was new to FBS and I’m sure only saw Kent
as a payday, but others who have come here
Delaware St, NC A&T , certainly thought it was
a winnable game. Why can Womens
BB get a home game with OSU and men
Play Hiram (div III) and Concord ( div II)?
Our “ esteemed” men’s BB program can no longer
even schedule YSU, and they expect fans to turn
out for Hiram ?

Women’s basketball usually gets a power 5 team to come to Kent. I don’t think women’s teams are as paranoid about losing such games. In fairness it probably doesn’t effect their NCAA hopes nearly as much. Does anybody know of any financial reason as to why this is the case.

(09-13-2019 10:33 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  Got the email too and while I thought it was really nice also thought it started out with the wrong word, “we” wasn’t “we” that screwed the pooch it was Joel. I know the school isn’t big on buyouts but like Dave states above, they could go with the buyout and backfill with somebody getting fair market value for the MAC and still save money in the end.

The school isn’t big on buying out coaches. I have a feeling the President will buy out whoever he wants to buyout. As they say it’s good to be King.

(09-17-2019 11:34 AM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(09-16-2019 09:12 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  From the USA Today on us selling ours souls:

“Kent State also will have played Kennesaw State, a Football Championship Subdivision school it is paying $300,000 for a game Sept. 7”

Any idea how that compares to normal FBS vs. FCS games?

I believe that is the average for our level with it probably doubling if they played a bigger FBS program.