(09-06-2019 11:38 AM)Miggy Wrote:  Players play the game. Don’t see either Houston nor WSU rosters being as deep in talent as the four teams I named in the top tier of the AAC.

Also see HC McKie as a proven assistant coach who helped Temple be successful last season, and has coached under some terrific NBA coaches like Larry Brown, plus he was an excellent NBA player. Do think he’ll bring energy and move Temple in a new positive direction that college basketball needs to move to.

if we are talking recruit ranking wise...this is the most touted wichita roster in history
5 of the top 9 highest rated wichita high school recruits in HISTORY are active players on Wichita's current roster.. none of which is their projected best player in dexter dennis

if grimes is eligible every single starting guard for houston will be a top 100 4/5star ..this will be the 1st year houston wont be relyng on juco...

also between both threads you think monty scott will be shizz-like (shizz wasa a all-conference player)...and dont think much of grimes....both played in foreign tours...and UH played tougher teams

monty scott in tour- over 20 mins in every game
7pts 6 ast 2stl
9pts 4asts 5rbs
12pts 3ast

grimes in tour
8pts 7rbs 6asts
22pts 10rbs 3asts 3stl
17pts 7asts 2stl
10pts 4rbs ---game was called mid-way, up huge (top 2 scoring in the game)

I’m not putting down Grimes. Grimes has potential to be a good player. But didn’t show that at Kansas as he shot poorly on 2’s, rarely got to the foul-line, where he shot his foul-shots poorly. Even he obtains a waiver from the NCAA so he’s eligible to play, and shoots 3’s at 36 percent, he’s nowhere near Davis and Brooks, who left.

Doubt we’ll ever see Grimes score as Scott did at his former school , 22 points in one-half playing against Butler, or a comparable team, nor averaging over 20 points per game against high-major teams.

1) Cincinnati
2) Houston - flip flop with Cincy if Grimes is eligible
3) Memphis
4) USF
5) Temple
6) UConn
7) Wichita
8) Tulsa
9) UCF
10) SMU
11) ECU
12) Tulane

(09-06-2019 11:38 AM)Miggy Wrote:  Players play the game. Don’t see either Houston nor WSU rosters being as deep in talent as the four teams I named in the top tier of the AAC.

Also see HC McKie as a proven assistant coach who helped Temple be successful last season, and has coached under some terrific NBA coaches like Larry Brown, plus he was an excellent NBA player. Do think he’ll bring energy and move Temple in a new positive direction that college basketball needs to move to.

I'd disagree. Don't get me wrong, I think Temple is being undervalued by most but I'd say WSU and Houston definitely have better and deeper rosters than Temple. Add to that the fact that Sampson and Marshall are proven coaches for decades now. I can't put Temple above Houston for sure and probably not above WSU. Main thing going against WSU is they will still be really young this year.

1) Cincinnati
2) Memphis
3) Houston
4) USF
5) Tulsa
6) Temple
7) Wichita
8) UConn
9) SMU
10) ECU
11) ECU
12) Tulane

(09-06-2019 12:28 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I’m not putting down Grimes. Grimes is a very good player. Just saying Houston needs him to obtain a waiver from the NCAA so he’s eligible to play, so he can help Houston can be successful this season.

Better comparison of Scott to Grimes is fact that Scott at his former school scored 22 points in one-half playing against Butler, and averaged over 20 points per game against high major teams. Grimes didn’t do that playing at Kansas.

we've talked about this here before...because grimes didnt need to, there were other elite scorers on kansas namely dotson and lawson (and partly legarld vick)

depaul's best player and likely top scorer next season (if he is granted a waiver) will be charlie moore..he did 2pts per game at kansas (4*/leading scorer at cal, transferred to Kansas to go "big school", did 2pts per, transferred again to depaul, averaged over 20 for depaul in their foreign tour)..Kansas fans also trash him

..long story short...kennesaw state isnt kansas

and grimes season wide stats arent amazing but he did have some great individual games, like dominating michigan state (who went to the final 4/elite defense)

also this is my opinion and you dont have to agree, grimes to me is the difference between how far we get in the tourney...even without him i still see us making the tourney and finishing top 4

(09-06-2019 12:51 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-06-2019 12:28 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I’m not putting down Grimes. Grimes is a very good player. Just saying Houston needs him to obtain a waiver from the NCAA so he’s eligible to play, so he can help Houston can be successful this season.

Better comparison of Scott to Grimes is fact that Scott at his former school scored 22 points in one-half playing against Butler, and averaged over 20 points per game against high major teams. Grimes didn’t do that playing at Kansas.

we've talked about this here before...because grimes didnt need to, there were other elite scorers on kansas namely dotson and lawson (and partly legarld vick)

depaul's best player and likely top scorer next season (if he is granted a waiver) will be charlie moore..he did 2pts per game at kansas (4*/leading scorer at cal, transferred to Kansas to go "big school", did 2pts per, transferred again to depaul, averaged over 20 for depaul in their foreign tour)..Kansas fans also trash him

..long story short...kennesaw state isnt kansas

and grimes season wide stats arent amazing but he did have some great individual games, like dominating michigan state (who went to the final 4/elite defense)

also this is my opinion and you dont have to agree, grimes to me is the difference between how far we get in the tourney...even without him i still see us making the tourney and finishing top 4

Agree that WSU is a young good team. But them losing two top scorers eliminated them from putting them in the op 4 teams in the conference.

As for Grimes, at Kansas, Grimes shooting percentage on 2’s was so-so at 45 percent, he shot just average on 3’s (34 percent), and he shot but 60 percent at the foul line.

As for Scott, he played well against good teams while being mostly double -teamed. Who he played for is irrelevant.

(09-06-2019 01:15 PM)Miggy Wrote:  

(09-06-2019 12:51 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-06-2019 12:28 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I’m not putting down Grimes. Grimes is a very good player. Just saying Houston needs him to obtain a waiver from the NCAA so he’s eligible to play, so he can help Houston can be successful this season.

Better comparison of Scott to Grimes is fact that Scott at his former school scored 22 points in one-half playing against Butler, and averaged over 20 points per game against high major teams. Grimes didn’t do that playing at Kansas.

we've talked about this here before...because grimes didnt need to, there were other elite scorers on kansas namely dotson and lawson (and partly legarld vick)

depaul's best player and likely top scorer next season (if he is granted a waiver) will be charlie moore..he did 2pts per game at kansas (4*/leading scorer at cal, transferred to Kansas to go "big school", did 2pts per, transferred again to depaul, averaged over 20 for depaul in their foreign tour)..Kansas fans also trash him

..long story short...kennesaw state isnt kansas

and grimes season wide stats arent amazing but he did have some great individual games, like dominating michigan state (who went to the final 4/elite defense)

also this is my opinion and you dont have to agree, grimes to me is the difference between how far we get in the tourney...even without him i still see us making the tourney and finishing top 4

Agree that WSU is a young good team. But them losing two top scorers eliminated them from putting them in the op 4 teams in the conference.

As for Grimes, at Kansas, Grimes shooting percentage on 2’s was so-so at 45 percent, he shot just average on 3’s (34 percent), and he shot but 60 percent at the foul line.

As for Scott, he played well against good teams while being mostly double -teamed. Who he played for rTver irrelevant.

A Temple fan just said Temple has more talent than Houston. Yikes. A pretty bad take.

(09-06-2019 01:15 PM)Miggy Wrote:  

(09-06-2019 12:51 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-06-2019 12:28 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I’m not putting down Grimes. Grimes is a very good player. Just saying Houston needs him to obtain a waiver from the NCAA so he’s eligible to play, so he can help Houston can be successful this season.

Better comparison of Scott to Grimes is fact that Scott at his former school scored 22 points in one-half playing against Butler, and averaged over 20 points per game against high major teams. Grimes didn’t do that playing at Kansas.

we've talked about this here before...because grimes didnt need to, there were other elite scorers on kansas namely dotson and lawson (and partly legarld vick)

depaul's best player and likely top scorer next season (if he is granted a waiver) will be charlie moore..he did 2pts per game at kansas (4*/leading scorer at cal, transferred to Kansas to go "big school", did 2pts per, transferred again to depaul, averaged over 20 for depaul in their foreign tour)..Kansas fans also trash him

..long story short...kennesaw state isnt kansas

and grimes season wide stats arent amazing but he did have some great individual games, like dominating michigan state (who went to the final 4/elite defense)

also this is my opinion and you dont have to agree, grimes to me is the difference between how far we get in the tourney...even without him i still see us making the tourney and finishing top 4

Agree that WSU is a young good team. But them losing two top scorers eliminated them from putting them in the op 4 teams in the conference.

As for Grimes, at Kansas, Grimes shooting percentage on 2’s was so-so at 45 percent, he shot just average on 3’s (34 percent), and he shot but 60 percent at the foul line.

As for Scott, he played well against good teams while being mostly double -teamed. Who he played for rver irrelevant.

Eh yes McDuffie is a loss. SHJ? maybe or maybe not.

You can say we lost our top two scorers and be correct.

You can also say we return 7 of our 9 top scorers and also be correct. WSU returns a lot of talent, including Freshman that played ALOT of minutes (Dennis, Stevenson, Burton) and added the 3rd best class in the AAC.

Lets Compare with Temple here.

Lost:
WSU - 1st and 2nd Top Scorer
Temple - 1st and 4th Top Scorer
Edge Temple

Returning:
WSU - 3 of Top 5 Scorers
Temple - 3 of Top 5 Scorers
Push

Incoming:
WSU - 3rd best AAC Class (41st in the country)
Temple - 10th Best AAC Class (98th in the country)
Edge WSU

Coaches:
WSU: Potential HOF Coach
Temple: First Year Head Coach
Edge WSU by a mile

So if you are saying WSU's losses push them out of the Top 4, that's fine. Then you also need to move Temple out of the Top 4.

(09-06-2019 02:08 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  

(09-06-2019 01:15 PM)Miggy Wrote:  

(09-06-2019 12:51 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-06-2019 12:28 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I’m not putting down Grimes. Grimes is a very good player. Just saying Houston needs him to obtain a waiver from the NCAA so he’s eligible to play, so he can help Houston can be successful this season.

Better comparison of Scott to Grimes is fact that Scott at his former school scored 22 points in one-half playing against Butler, and averaged over 20 points per game against high major teams. Grimes didn’t do that playing at Kansas.

we've talked about this here before...because grimes didnt need to, there were other elite scorers on kansas namely dotson and lawson (and partly legarld vick)

depaul's best player and likely top scorer next season (if he is granted a waiver) will be charlie moore..he did 2pts per game at kansas (4*/leading scorer at cal, transferred to Kansas to go "big school", did 2pts per, transferred again to depaul, averaged over 20 for depaul in their foreign tour)..Kansas fans also trash him

..long story short...kennesaw state isnt kansas

and grimes season wide stats arent amazing but he did have some great individual games, like dominating michigan state (who went to the final 4/elite defense)

also this is my opinion and you dont have to agree, grimes to me is the difference between how far we get in the tourney...even without him i still see us making the tourney and finishing top 4

Agree that WSU is a young good team. But losing two top scorers eliminates them from being in the op 4 teams in the conference.

As for Grimes at Kansas, His shooting percentage on 2’s was so-so at 45 percent, he shot just average on 3’s (34 percent), and only 60 percent at the foul line.

As for Scott, he played well against good teams while being mostly double -teamed. Who he played for is irrelevant.

Eh yes McDuffie is a loss. SHJ? maybe or maybe not.

You can say we lost our top two scorers and be correct.

You can also say we return 7 of our 9 top scorers and also be correct. WSU returns a lot of talent, including Freshman that played ALOT of minutes (Dennis, Stevenson, Burton) and added the 3rd best class in the AAC.

Lets Compare with Temple here.

Lost:
WSU - 1st and 2nd Top Scorer
Temple - 1st and 4th Top Scorer
Edge Temple

Returning:
WSU - 3 of Top 5 Scorers
Temple - 3 of Top 5 Scorers
Push

Incoming:
WSU - 3rd best AAC Class (41st in the country)
Temple - 10th Best AAC Class (98th in the country)
Edge WSU

Coaches:
WSU: Potential HOF Coach
Temple: First Year Head Coach
Edge WSU by a mile

So if you are saying WSU's losses push them out of the Top 4, that's fine. Then you also need to move Temple out of the Top 4.

I wouldn’t use your metrics to compare Temple and WSU. First, WSU lost SU’s two top scorers have departed.

WSU has lost two players who averaged 30 ppg combined. Temple lost it’s sixth best scorer that averaged 5 points in conference games.

Temple lost Alston it’s best scorer, and Ern it’s sixth best scorer in conference play. Alston’s scoring will be replaced by Scott who averaged 17 ppg playing less minutes.


WSU has no proven players replacing it’s two top scorers. That’s a huge edge to Temple. Adding freshman’ Sherfield and Etienne will give WSU some three-point shooting they need, and Gordon and Bush will help some in the front court. But the team will still be very young and freshmen inexperience to a faster played game.

Temple also has two transfers in Forrester, a 4-star, and Strickland, a 3-star recruit, and both may well receive an NCAA waivers to play this season.

Temple has a huge known advantage over WSU in scoring to start the season. And the have 6’11 Hamilton who has shown signs of being an outstanding offensive play, and Moorman who’s a deadly outside shooter.
D. Moore has also vastly improved on both sides of the ball, and back up PG Alani Moire returns. He was a deadly three point shooter in conference play.

WSU’s incoming freshman class is an unknown quantity as far as how they will perform on the court. I see that three of the players are listed as PG’s. Even though some of WSU’s players are transfers, theyre probably not better than Temple’s returning players.

So overall, it’s my opinion, based on the respective rosters, Temple’s is far superior as it has proven scorers that given that the HC intends for Temple to run more,
should result in Temple averaging more than the 75 ppg they did last year. Doubt WSU will score as much as temple will.

I would put HC McKie up against any HC, he has learned from
both Dunphy and Brown, two of the best, plus he has played in the NBA.

(07-14-2019 10:47 AM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  

(07-10-2019 02:22 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  Temple finishes between 4 and 6. It's amazing how people don't seem to know the team that just finished third is returning more minutes and scoring than everyone but USF. How in God's name do people have the balls to pick us 7 and 8?

I just think they’ve been the lowest IQ basketball team in the league the last few years. They have plenty of talent but also plenty of guys who don’t seem to have a great feel for the game.

Rose has been a huge disappointment. His decision making is about as bad as it can get for a guy with his talent and athleticism.

Maybe that changes under a new coach, but man, they just didn’t have a soul all last season despite winning a few big games

Temple fans have been saying this for the past few years. Dunphy was just the least inspiring guy I can think of, and the team had no identity. That all comes from who's in charge - Chaney's Temple teams had a grit and intensity that Dunphy's lacked, because of who the coaches were as people. The most heated we saw Dunphy get was that damn water bottle incident that cost us a game against you guys.

That being said, HC McKie should usher in a new era for the program. He knows what Temple's identity is and should be, as well as how his coaching style will be influenced by but separate from both Chaney and Dunphy. I can see the year after this being big, once the players are more used to McKie's system.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Temple place as a top 4 team this season - but on paper, there's no reason they would logically be ahead of Memphis, Houston, WSU, Cincinnati. I'd lump them with UConn and USF as a 2nd tier for now before McKie proves himself.

(09-06-2019 02:40 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I would put HC McKie up against any HC, he has learned from both Dunphy and Brown, two of the best, plus he has played in the NBA.

Dude I like Temple too but Marshall is legitimately one of the best coaches in college basketball...McKie has coached zero games so far. Let's just wait and see before making Temple fans look dumb

Temple needs to clear the decks of the average Dunphy recruits. Moorman and Perry are average and irrelevant, respectively. Rose looks good on paper but has been a disappointment. Alani Moore is 5'9". Damion Moore is not very good. Until then, Temple won't be a contender. The good news is, Aaron is definitely recruiting at a higher level.

Classic "my team got way better with new guys and your teams new guys will probably suck."

WSU needs to make marginal offensive improvement this year to be better. It's more important that they return to a T25 defensive squad. That's how Marshall's teams have been nationally relevant.

WSU may miss the scoring and shot-creation ability of the departing PG. But at the end of the day, that was a player averaging 11.9 points, not 16. And he was doing it on 12+ FGA. While being a below average defender that didn't run the offense.

It's not crazy for freshmen to go from 8 to 12ppg their sophomore seasons. It's also not crazy for a new player to come in and average 10ppg. IMO, it's much less reliant on getting waivers or injecting new players and expecting premier scoring from them. WSU will be highly successful this season not by having a new 17+ scorer, but by having 6 players between 8-13ppg and playing Great to Elite defense. That might not happen, but that is the path. The current WSU coach has done this sort of thing many times before. Again, doesn't guarantee anything, but there is a lot of history to give one confidence.

(09-06-2019 02:40 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I wouldn’t use your metrics to compare Temple and WSU. First, WSU lost SU’s two top scorers have departed.

Temple lost Alston it’s best scorer, and Ern it’s sixth best scorer in conference play. Alston’s scoring will be replaced by Scott who averaged 17 ppg playing less minutes.

WSU has no proven players replacing I two top scorers. That’s a huge edge to Temple.

Moreover, Temple has two transfers in Forrester, a 4-star, and Strickland, a 3-star recruit, and both may well receive an NCAA waivers to
play this season.

So, Temple has a huge known advantage over WSU in scoring to start the season.

WSU’s incoming freshman class is an unknown as far as how they will perform on the court. I see that three of the players are listed as PG’s.
Even though some lof WSU’s players are transfers, they are probably not better than Temple’s returning players.

So overall, it’s my opinion, based on the respective rosters, Temple’s is far
superior as it has proven scorers that given that the HC intends to rim ore
should result in Temple averaging way more than the 75 ppg thry did last year. Doubt WSU will do that.

I would put HC McKie up against any HC, he has learned from
both Dunphy and Brown, two of the best, plus he has played in the NBA.

So much Eeek in this post.

Why use overall PPG for some people, but conference PPG for another? I get it makes your point better, but you are just trying to fudge numbers now.

Counting on players that don't have waivers right now ... ok

No proven players? umm .. I'll take Dexter Dennis and his game over Scott any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Scotts 17ppg at Kennesaw state can be thrown out the window. They were 309 in KP that year and had a SOS of ~300. He will be lucky to get double digits. I'd actually take Erik Stevenson and Jamarius Burton over him too. You can actually look at Cane Broome as a good comparable. Came from a ~300 KP school that played a ~300 SOS. Averaged 23 ppg at Sacred Heart and only averaged 7-8 ppg at Cincy. There is no way Scott gets close to replacing Alston. Not by a mile.

Quote:"So, Temple has a huge known advantage over WSU in scoring to start the season."

67% returning for Temple, 60% for WSU. Wouldn't say huge known advantage.

Quote:"Even though some lof WSU’s players are transfers, they are probably not better than Temple’s returning players."

Umm ok? I'd disagree. Rose is better than WSU's returners but rest? Toss up at best, most likely the edge to WSU. WSU has more quality depth there with Dennis, Stevenson, Burton, Echenique and even toss in Midtgaard with his play late in the year.

Quote:So overall, it’s my opinion, based on the respective rosters, Temple’s is far
superior as it has proven scorers that given that the HC intends to rim ore
should result in Temple averaging way more than the 75 ppg thry did last year. Doubt WSU will do that.

Temple will likely average more PPG, but how will their defense be? PPG is only one part of the game. Marshall knows defense and they will be one of the toughest on defense in the league.

Quote:I would put HC McKie up against any HC, he has learned from
both Dunphy and Brown, two of the best, plus he has played in the NBA.

Full stop here before your embarrass yourself.

1. Memphis (NCAA)
2. Houston (NCAA)
3. Cincy (NCAA)
4. Tulane (NCAA)
5. UCONN (NIT)
6. Temple (NIT)
7. USF (NIT)
8. WSU
9. SMU
10. ECU
11. UCF
12. Tulsa(MVC tournery)

(09-06-2019 12:43 PM)BrooklynRocket Wrote:  1) Cincinnati
2) Houston - flip flop with Cincy if Grimes is eligible
3) Memphis
4) USF
5) Temple
6) UConn
7) Wichita
8) Tulsa
9) UCF
10) SMU
11) ECU
12) Tulane

lol per usual

(09-06-2019 12:47 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  1) Cincinnati
2) Memphis
3) Houston
4) USF
5) Tulsa
6) Temple
7) Wichita
8) UConn
9) SMU
10) ECU
11) ECU
12) Tulane

This one tops the Rocket’s.

You just never freaking learn.

(09-06-2019 03:30 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(09-06-2019 12:47 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  1) Cincinnati
2) Memphis
3) Houston
4) USF
5) Tulsa
6) Temple
7) Wichita
8) UConn
9) SMU
10) ECU
11) ECU
12) Tulane

This one tops the Rocket’s.

You just never freaking learn.

What is your forecast?

(09-06-2019 03:12 PM)Poseidon Wrote:  1. Memphis (NCAA)
2. Houston (NCAA)
3. Cincy (NCAA)
4. Tulane (NCAA)
5. UCONN (NIT)
6. Temple (NIT)
7. USF (NIT)
8. WSU
9. SMU
10. ECU
11. UCF
12. Tulsa(MVC tournery)

lol why the tulsa flames?