He is made for message board discussions. Lots of physical talents, but has mental challenges that lead to inconsistency. As a 5th year senior, he is what he is.

IMO, He played very well today overall with his lethal running mixed in with adequate passing.
For JMU to be a title contender, I think Cignetti has to make him a one read QB. The Nooch gets in trouble when option one isn’t open and he has to make quick reads. Of course the floating INT was a terrible decision, but he also had some sacks today because he held the ball too long after being unable to make a passing decision.

This team will be so much better if he is coached to be a tuck and run QB. Look for one receiver and then take off. He hurt WVU with his legs when he ran today. He hurt WVU when he made quick passes out of the pocket. There won’t be any more defenses this year that can match WVU’s personnel and one of the hardest things to defend is a QB that runs after dropping back to pass.

There have been plenty of college championship teams that didn’t have a great passing QB.
1-Leverage his running ability more.
2-Simplify his passing choices to something similar to what Rodney Landers was given. Tuck and run.
3- Win the natty.

(08-31-2019 08:48 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  He is made for message board discussions. Lots of physical talents, but has mental challenges that lead to inconsistency. As a 5th year senior, he is what he is.

IMO, He played very well today overall with his lethal running mixed in with adequate passing.
For JMU to be a title contender, I think Cignetti has to make him a one read QB. The Nooch gets in trouble when option one isn’t open and he has to make quick reads. Of course the floating INT was a terrible decision, but he also had some sacks today because he held the ball too long after being unable to make a passing decision.

This team will be so much better if he is coached to be a tuck and run QB. Look for one receiver and then take off. He hurt WVU with his legs when he ran today. He hurt WVU when he made quick passes out of the pocket. There won’t be any more defenses this year that can match WVU’s personnel and one of the hardest things to defend is a QB that runs after dropping back to pass.

There have been plenty of college championship teams that didn’t have a great passing QB.
P

1-Leverage his running ability more.
2-Simplify his passing choices to something similar to what Rodney Landers was given. Tuck and run.
3- Win the natty.

As soon as I saw the words ‘Tuck and Run’ I thought of Justin Thorpe.
Landers was never tuck and run in the same vein. One thing Landers did unlike all other JMU QBs of the past 15+ years is he never slid. At 6’1”/220, he just lowered the boom on people. He was like a running back, if not a FB once past the LOS. Maybe am misremembering, but maybe only a couple tuck and run per game. Most of his carries, about 19 per game, (14 games, 268 carries, 1770 yds) were designed off the read option or a called QB running play in vein of the wildcat.

I agree I'd like for him to just pack it in and take the sack sometimes as much as it sucks. I'm not sure if he's going to learn that at this point. There were a few times today where I yelled "Get rid of it!" but it's not in his blood.

I’d like for him to not have to run for his life 75% of the time. How dare he complete 70% of his passes!


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The JMU offensive line is good at run blocking but had many breakdowns in pass protection. On the int by Nooch, the offensive line broke down and Nooch should have been sacked. He somehow avoided the sack and tried to make a play. He did not see the CB because he was locked in on the WR. That is why he floated the pass as he thought the only defender who could defend the pass was in front of the receiver.

Nooch had a good game today. Not a perfect one but a good one.

(08-31-2019 10:03 PM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  I’d like for him to not have to run for his life 75% of the time. How dare he complete 70% of his passes!


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THIS!

(08-31-2019 10:01 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  I agree I'd like for him to just pack it in and take the sack sometimes as much as it sucks. I'm not sure if he's going to learn that at this point. There were a few times today where I yelled "Get rid of it!" but it's not in his blood.

I think that's his problem- he's too quick to tuck and run. He needs to get better on rolling out and passing on the run. He doesn't do enough of that but obviously to his side of the field not across his body/across the field he doesn't have the arm for that. I think at times he needs the space outside the pocket to see the receivers- he's not the tallest QB.

Screw it, just run the triple option for the rest of the year. That way we can stop arguing about this

(09-01-2019 06:20 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(08-31-2019 10:01 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  I agree I'd like for him to just pack it in and take the sack sometimes as much as it sucks. I'm not sure if he's going to learn that at this point. There were a few times today where I yelled "Get rid of it!" but it's not in his blood.

I think that's his problem- he's too quick to tuck and run. He needs to get better on rolling out and passing on the run. He doesn't do enough of that but obviously to his side of the field not across his body/across the field he doesn't have the arm for that. I think at times he needs the space outside the pocket to see the receivers- he's not the tallest QB.

You do realize his runs yesterday were planned QB draws or read options? He executed those plays extremely well. He was not “tucking and running” on his own, except when WVU brought the house and our pass-blocking failed to protect him.

As for his height, he’s plenty tall enough to see down the field, and his arm strength is sufficient to make most of the throws he needs to make. He’s not the perfect QB. He’s not 6’5” or have a cannon for an arm. Sometimes he makes bad decisions. He made one yesterday running to his left on a scramble and did not set his feet and floated a ball down the middle of the field into double coverage. That was a really dumb thing to do. If anything, he was trying too hard to make something positive happen, when once outside the pocket he should have just thrown the ball out of bounds past the line of scrimmage.

All that said, Ben is athletic, and strong, and his passing is accurate. He does an excellent job on the read option, and his legs will make opponents play us honest, both on the run and pass. His job is ultimately to manage the game and get the ball into our playmaker’s hands, and JMU has a wealth of talented skill players. It’s their job not to fumble, and they too failed to make good on that yesterday. So don’t lay yesterday’s loss off on Ben, or start diagnosing his skill set making mountains out of molehills.

Love Nooch. He crushed it except for that interception. I was proud of his play.

(09-01-2019 07:07 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-01-2019 06:20 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(08-31-2019 10:01 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  I agree I'd like for him to just pack it in and take the sack sometimes as much as it sucks. I'm not sure if he's going to learn that at this point. There were a few times today where I yelled "Get rid of it!" but it's not in his blood.

I think that's his problem- he's too quick to tuck and run. He needs to get better on rolling out and passing on the run. He doesn't do enough of that but obviously to his side of the field not across his body/across the field he doesn't have the arm for that. I think at times he needs the space outside the pocket to see the receivers- he's not the tallest QB.

You do realize his runs yesterday were planned QB draws or read options? He executed those plays extremely well. He was not “tucking and running” on his own, except when WVU brought the house and our pass-blocking failed to protect him.

As for his height, he’s plenty tall enough to see down the field, and his arm strength is sufficient to make most of the throws he needs to make. He’s not the perfect QB. He’s not 6’5” or have a cannon for an arm. Sometimes he makes bad decisions. He made one yesterday running to his left on a scramble and did not set his feet and floated a ball down the middle of the field into double coverage. That was a really dumb thing to do. If anything, he was trying too hard to make something positive happen, when once outside the pocket he should have just thrown the ball out of bounds past the line of scrimmage.

All that said, Ben is athletic, and strong, and his passing is accurate. He does an excellent job on the read option, and his legs will make opponents play us honest, both on the run and pass. His job is ultimately to manage the game and get the ball into our playmaker’s hands, and JMU has a wealth of talented skill players. It’s their job not to fumble, and they too failed to make good on that yesterday. So don’t lay yesterday’s loss off on Ben, or start diagnosing his skill set making mountains out of molehills.

Yes and No to the bolded part. In the postgame media session Cignetti stated that the majority of DiNucci's runs WERE tuck and run plays when Cig was justifying the Run vs. Pass call discrepancy. He said, exact quote, "we threw it 20 times, we ran 48, the qb probably ran the ball 14 times, probably at least half of those were passes". So, certainly there were designed runs for him in the game, but the majority of his runs we're not designed runs as acknowledged by our head coach.

(09-01-2019 08:01 AM)JMU_Degenerate Wrote:  

(09-01-2019 07:07 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-01-2019 06:20 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(08-31-2019 10:01 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  I agree I'd like for him to just pack it in and take the sack sometimes as much as it sucks. I'm not sure if he's going to learn that at this point. There were a few times today where I yelled "Get rid of it!" but it's not in his blood.

I think that's his problem- he's too quick to tuck and run. He needs to get better on rolling out and passing on the run. He doesn't do enough of that but obviously to his side of the field not across his body/across the field he doesn't have the arm for that. I think at times he needs the space outside the pocket to see the receivers- he's not the tallest QB.

You do realize his runs yesterday were planned QB draws or read options? He executed those plays extremely well. He was not “tucking and running” on his own, except when WVU brought the house and our pass-blocking failed to protect him.

As for his height, he’s plenty tall enough to see down the field, and his arm strength is sufficient to make most of the throws he needs to make. He’s not the perfect QB. He’s not 6’5” or have a cannon for an arm. Sometimes he makes bad decisions. He made one yesterday running to his left on a scramble and did not set his feet and floated a ball down the middle of the field into double coverage. That was a really dumb thing to do. If anything, he was trying too hard to make something positive happen, when once outside the pocket he should have just thrown the ball out of bounds past the line of scrimmage.

All that said, Ben is athletic, and strong, and his passing is accurate. He does an excellent job on the read option, and his legs will make opponents play us honest, both on the run and pass. His job is ultimately to manage the game and get the ball into our playmaker’s hands, and JMU has a wealth of talented skill players. It’s their job not to fumble, and they too failed to make good on that yesterday. So don’t lay yesterday’s loss off on Ben, or start diagnosing his skill set making mountains out of molehills.

Yes and No to the bolded part. In the postgame media session Cignetti stated that the majority of DiNucci's runs WERE tuck and run plays when Cig was justifying the Run vs. Pass call discrepancy. He said, exact quote, "we threw it 20 times, we ran 48, the qb probably ran the ball 14 times, probably at least half of those were passes". So, certainly there were designed runs for him in the game, but the majority of his runs we're not designed runs as acknowledged by our head coach.

That’s my point- imo he is too quick to tuck and run rather than roll out and pass. His draws and some of his run decisions when guys are covered down field can be effective in terms of yardage but long term I think roll and pass is a better strategy - eventually he will get his bell rung on the tuck and runs as well. He’s not a big guy.

(08-31-2019 10:01 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  I agree I'd like for him to just pack it in and take the sack sometimes as much as it sucks. I'm not sure if he's going to learn that at this point. There were a few times today where I yelled "Get rid of it!" but it's not in his blood.

I love that it's not in his DNA to throw it away and hate that it's not in his DNA to throw it away. There have been times where he has made chicken salad or of chicken poop. Regardless he had a very good day he's going to have a great season.

Small sample size but I think DiNucci has better focus and is tighter in terms of staying within himself against P5/FBS competition. He threw for a high percentage at NC State as well. It's against lesser competition where maybe his focus isn't as great, gets a little loosey goosey and is more prone to mental mistakes. Just a theory. I'm more concerned with how he performs against Towson, Maine, Nova, Stony Brook etc. lesser teams but still capable of beating the Dukes if he doesn't play smart.

I don’t think any kind of simple solution is really going to give us the best DiNucci can be, I think he just needs to continue to improve in decision making. I thought he was doing a great job of deciding when to try and make something happen and when to live to play the next down yesterday until the one obvious exception.

The very next drive though, we would’ve hit 4th and 6 or more in our own territory down 20-10 if he takes some simple approach where he never tries to make anything happen. That was a good example of the type of play he should try to make though. He rolled to his right and gave his receiver, and only his receiver, a chance to dive for it near the sideline. When you can extend the play and make a safe throw like that, awesome. When the “open” guy is 20 yards down the field standing still right in the middle of the field with defenders close enough to jump him, that’s the time to throw it away or get what you can and go down.

Hopefully he keeps improving there, but I think completely taking that out of his game takes away a lot of why he can be so good.

Agree he seems to be doing better this year, but he still made some bad throws/decisions. He tried to force a touchdown pass that nearly got picked off. He also threw behind Dean on a 3rd and long that nearly got picked off. These happened when he was feeling the pressure.

As much as it gave me heartburn, I was fine with Bryan forcing things. He seemed to have a "touch" that worked more often than not. I want to feel the same way about Ben, maybe I will as the season progresses, but the past year has been more "please don't force something" vs "please try to make something happen".

Maybe I just need to start drinking again.

(08-31-2019 08:48 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  He is made for message board discussions. Lots of physical talents, but has mental challenges that lead to inconsistency. As a 5th year senior, he is what he is.

IMO, He played very well today overall with his lethal running mixed in with adequate passing.
For JMU to be a title contender, I think Cignetti has to make him a one read QB. The Nooch gets in trouble when option one isn’t open and he has to make quick reads. Of course the floating INT was a terrible decision, but he also had some sacks today because he held the ball too long after being unable to make a passing decision.

This team will be so much better if he is coached to be a tuck and run QB. Look for one receiver and then take off. He hurt WVU with his legs when he ran today. He hurt WVU when he made quick passes out of the pocket. There won’t be any more defenses this year that can match WVU’s personnel and one of the hardest things to defend is a QB that runs after dropping back to pass.

There have been plenty of college championship teams that didn’t have a great passing QB.
1-Leverage his running ability more.
2-Simplify his passing choices to something similar to what Rodney Landers was given. Tuck and run.
3- Win the natty.

I think Nooch's second and third reads are fine, but only when he has an open receiver. I agree that he should throw the ball away more rather than take a sack, but, frankly, sometimes he is concentrating so hard on finding an open receiver that he doesn't see the sack coming or apparently believes a receiver is getting some separation and with another microsecond, he can deliver the ball.

It's easy for us armchair quarterbacks and day-after analysts to criticize, but being in that situation with a fraction of a second to make a decision, and seeing the field through his eyes, I'm not about to second guess Nooch.

Early in the game Nooch was getting good protection and we were running the ball down the couchburners' throats, with just enough passing to keep WVU's defense honest, and Nooch's completion percentage was 100%. What changed that was the protection he was getting. It steadily broke down as the game progressed. That's not Nooch's fault. But, yeah, I would like to see him throw the ball away more quickly when his protection is breaking down.

(09-01-2019 11:38 AM)2Buck Wrote:  Agree he seems to be doing better this year, but he still made some bad throws/decisions. He tried to force a touchdown pass that nearly got picked off.

The play was a TD to Stapleton, and it was a well thrown ball, it was just a better play by the defender who got a stretched out hand to knock the ball down. If DiNucci had the skill to throw harder the pass probably would have beaten the defenders out-stretched hand, but it wasn’t a near pick, just a good play by the DB with one (1) outstretched hand.

(09-01-2019 01:49 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-01-2019 11:38 AM)2Buck Wrote:  Agree he seems to be doing better this year, but he still made some bad throws/decisions. He tried to force a touchdown pass that nearly got picked off.

The play was a TD to Stapleton, and it was a well thrown ball, it was just a better play by the defender who got a stretched out hand to knock the ball down. If DiNucci had the skill to throw harder the pass probably would have beaten the defenders out-stretched hand, but it wasn’t a near pick, just a good play by the DB with one (1) outstretched hand.

Yeah I agree(just off of seeing it live and no replays later so for what it's worth). I thought Nooch was maybe a hair late on the throw, but other than that I thought it was a good route, well placed ball, and just a great recovery by the DB who was beaten initially.

(09-01-2019 01:54 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(09-01-2019 01:49 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-01-2019 11:38 AM)2Buck Wrote:  Agree he seems to be doing better this year, but he still made some bad throws/decisions. He tried to force a touchdown pass that nearly got picked off.

The play was a TD to Stapleton, and it was a well thrown ball, it was just a better play by the defender who got a stretched out hand to knock the ball down. If DiNucci had the skill to throw harder the pass probably would have beaten the defenders out-stretched hand, but it wasn’t a near pick, just a good play by the DB with one (1) outstretched hand.

Yeah I agree(just off of seeing it live and no replays later so for what it's worth). I thought Nooch was maybe a hair late on the throw, but other than that I thought it was a good route, well placed ball, and just a great recovery by the DB who was beaten initially.

It wasn't the guy trailing Stapleton that was the issue. There was a DB in the end zone that, had he played the ball instead of Stapleton, would have picked it off.

Nooch just sometimes has tunnel vision for the receiver without reading defender positions well enough. At game speed of course this is all incredibly difficult to do but it's a skill he needs to work on.