(08-17-2019 08:02 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Wouldnt a CUSA v Sunbelt game be best for all parties? I dont understand why this is so difficult

CUSA vs Sunbelt would keep the bowl in business. I think the problem is, Independence Bowl sees themselves as more than they are--they're a bowl with History and Tradition, a cut above johnny-come-latelies like Montgomery and the Bahamas and Boca Raton and the Cure Bowl. I don't think CUSA and the Sun Belt see it that way--Shreveport is just another southern city with a stadium and a bowl charter.

The PAC cares about the age of the Poulan Weedeater Independence Bowl, which is why they're in Shreveport and not Albuquerque or wherever.

(08-17-2019 08:51 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 08:02 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Wouldnt a CUSA v Sunbelt game be best for all parties? I dont understand why this is so difficult

CUSA vs Sunbelt would keep the bowl in business. I think the problem is, Independence Bowl sees themselves as more than they are--they're a bowl with History and Tradition, a cut above johnny-come-latelies like Montgomery and the Bahamas and Boca Raton and the Cure Bowl. I don't think CUSA and the Sun Belt see it that way--Shreveport is just another southern city with a stadium and a bowl charter.

The PAC cares about the age of the Poulan Weedeater Independence Bowl, which is why they're in Shreveport and not Albuquerque or wherever.

I doubt the PAC care about the age of the bowl. It is their #8 spot which they will rarely fill. Also, they are switching between the pool and Indy if really care they would sign up for it every year.

(08-17-2019 08:51 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 08:02 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Wouldnt a CUSA v Sunbelt game be best for all parties? I dont understand why this is so difficult

CUSA vs Sunbelt would keep the bowl in business. I think the problem is, Independence Bowl sees themselves as more than they are--they're a bowl with History and Tradition, a cut above johnny-come-latelies like Montgomery and the Bahamas and Boca Raton and the Cure Bowl. I don't think CUSA and the Sun Belt see it that way--Shreveport is just another southern city with a stadium and a bowl charter.

The PAC cares about the age of the Poulan Weedeater Independence Bowl, which is why they're in Shreveport and not Albuquerque or wherever.

Independence Bowl faces the same problem the Liberty Bowl faced a few years ago. They DO have a modicum of "history and tradition", and all else equal that DOES put them above all the rabble of johnny-come-lately Gasparilla and Boca Raton bowls.

But what they have failed to recognize is that payout has always mattered - that's a tradition too - and their payout has just not kept up, they've allowed it to stagnate at a low level. And history/tradition cannot overcome that.

So the Indy has to figure out how to boost their payout, to the 1.5m - 2m range, like the Liberty did, or else it will be relegated to the ashbin of history.

Shreveport can't boost the payout because they cannot find the sponsor willing to boost it. There aren't many sponsors getting excited about four days vacation in Shreveport vs NOLA or Tampa or Orlando. They cannot deliver the teams that get you the ratings that get you that sort of money.

Liberty had FedEx and AutoZone based in the city. Having St Jude as their charity activity opened some doors as well.

Shreveport doesn't have similar local businesses to draw upon.

(08-18-2019 10:19 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Shreveport can't boost the payout because they cannot find the sponsor willing to boost it. There aren't many sponsors getting excited about four days vacation in Shreveport vs NOLA or Tampa or Orlando. They cannot deliver the teams that get you the ratings that get you that sort of money.

Liberty had FedEx and AutoZone based in the city. Having St Jude as their charity activity opened some doors as well.

Shreveport doesn't have similar local businesses to draw upon.

Yes, that very well could be the situation. And if they can't find another $500k per team, to get that payout up to about $1.6m or more, then IMO this current scraping of the barrel is what their future will be.

(08-18-2019 10:19 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Shreveport can't boost the payout because they cannot find the sponsor willing to boost it. There aren't many sponsors getting excited about four days vacation in Shreveport vs NOLA or Tampa or Orlando. They cannot deliver the teams that get you the ratings that get you that sort of money.

Liberty had FedEx and AutoZone based in the city. Having St Jude as their charity activity opened some doors as well.

Shreveport doesn't have similar local businesses to draw upon.

They should try to gets UPS, it would do good marketing for both.

(08-18-2019 09:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 08:51 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 08:02 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Wouldnt a CUSA v Sunbelt game be best for all parties? I dont understand why this is so difficult

CUSA vs Sunbelt would keep the bowl in business. I think the problem is, Independence Bowl sees themselves as more than they are--they're a bowl with History and Tradition, a cut above johnny-come-latelies like Montgomery and the Bahamas and Boca Raton and the Cure Bowl. I don't think CUSA and the Sun Belt see it that way--Shreveport is just another southern city with a stadium and a bowl charter.

The PAC cares about the age of the Poulan Weedeater Independence Bowl, which is why they're in Shreveport and not Albuquerque or wherever.

Independence Bowl faces the same problem the Liberty Bowl faced a few years ago. They DO have a modicum of "history and tradition", and all else equal that DOES put them above all the rabble of johnny-come-lately Gasparilla and Boca Raton bowls.

But what they have failed to recognize is that payout has always mattered - that's a tradition too - and their payout has just not kept up, they've allowed it to stagnate at a low level. And history/tradition cannot overcome that.

So the Indy has to figure out how to boost their payout, to the 1.5m - 2m range, like the Liberty did, or else it will be relegated to the ashbin of history.

Except that Memphis is a major league/AAA metropolitan area with upwards of a million people, plus Beale Street, while Shreveport has about half that, and (as far as I know) mediocre casinos. Looking at the rest of the SEC bowl lineup--New Orleans, Orlando, Tampa, Atlanta (before Peach Bowl was a NY6 game), Charlotte, Nashville, Houston, Jacksonville--I see a lot of NFL/MLB metro areas, with or without
bowl history--and then a dropoff to Birmingham and Shreveport, with Shreveport being the runt of the litter lately.

Nobody seems to mind the lack of institutional history for the game between the ACC #2 and Big 12 #3.

It seems that historic bowl tradition doesn't mean much to the conferences, for anything but their signature, trademark bowls (Rose, Sugar, Cotton, Orange)

(08-18-2019 12:18 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 09:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 08:51 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 08:02 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Wouldnt a CUSA v Sunbelt game be best for all parties? I dont understand why this is so difficult

CUSA vs Sunbelt would keep the bowl in business. I think the problem is, Independence Bowl sees themselves as more than they are--they're a bowl with History and Tradition, a cut above johnny-come-latelies like Montgomery and the Bahamas and Boca Raton and the Cure Bowl. I don't think CUSA and the Sun Belt see it that way--Shreveport is just another southern city with a stadium and a bowl charter.

The PAC cares about the age of the Poulan Weedeater Independence Bowl, which is why they're in Shreveport and not Albuquerque or wherever.

Independence Bowl faces the same problem the Liberty Bowl faced a few years ago. They DO have a modicum of "history and tradition", and all else equal that DOES put them above all the rabble of johnny-come-lately Gasparilla and Boca Raton bowls.

But what they have failed to recognize is that payout has always mattered - that's a tradition too - and their payout has just not kept up, they've allowed it to stagnate at a low level. And history/tradition cannot overcome that.

So the Indy has to figure out how to boost their payout, to the 1.5m - 2m range, like the Liberty did, or else it will be relegated to the ashbin of history.

Except that Memphis is a major league/AAA metropolitan area with upwards of a million people, plus Beale Street, while Shreveport has about half that, and (as far as I know) mediocre casinos.

That's an exaggeration. Memphis is a second-tier metro area, arguably third-tier, it's certainly not 'major league' in the sense that Dallas and Atlanta are, it's at least one cut below that, probably two.

That said, yes, Memphis is clearly above Shreveport, which is at least one level down from Memphis.

Nevertheless, if the Independence Bowl was offering $2m per school, I don't think it would have slipped out of the SEC roster of bowls. Shreveport itself isn't some rust-belt city that used to be big and booming and prosperous but now as sunk, it's never been more than what it is right now, but for decades has had a solid bowl game anyway.

(08-18-2019 12:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 12:18 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 09:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 08:51 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 08:02 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Wouldnt a CUSA v Sunbelt game be best for all parties? I dont understand why this is so difficult

CUSA vs Sunbelt would keep the bowl in business. I think the problem is, Independence Bowl sees themselves as more than they are--they're a bowl with History and Tradition, a cut above johnny-come-latelies like Montgomery and the Bahamas and Boca Raton and the Cure Bowl. I don't think CUSA and the Sun Belt see it that way--Shreveport is just another southern city with a stadium and a bowl charter.

The PAC cares about the age of the Poulan Weedeater Independence Bowl, which is why they're in Shreveport and not Albuquerque or wherever.

Independence Bowl faces the same problem the Liberty Bowl faced a few years ago. They DO have a modicum of "history and tradition", and all else equal that DOES put them above all the rabble of johnny-come-lately Gasparilla and Boca Raton bowls.

But what they have failed to recognize is that payout has always mattered - that's a tradition too - and their payout has just not kept up, they've allowed it to stagnate at a low level. And history/tradition cannot overcome that.

So the Indy has to figure out how to boost their payout, to the 1.5m - 2m range, like the Liberty did, or else it will be relegated to the ashbin of history.

Except that Memphis is a major league/AAA metropolitan area with upwards of a million people, plus Beale Street, while Shreveport has about half that, and (as far as I know) mediocre casinos.

That's an exaggeration. Memphis is a second-tier metro area, arguably third-tier, it's certainly not 'major league' in the sense that Dallas and Atlanta are, it's at least one cut below that, probably two.

That said, yes, Memphis is clearly above Shreveport, which is at least one level down from Memphis.

Nevertheless, if the Independence Bowl was offering $2m per school, I don't think it would have slipped out of the SEC roster of bowls. Shreveport itself isn't some rust-belt city that used to be big and booming and prosperous but now as sunk, it's never been more than what it is right now, but for decades has had a solid bowl game anyway.

Technically it is Major League, but so is Buffalo and Green Bay.

(08-18-2019 02:02 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 12:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 12:18 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 09:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 08:51 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  CUSA vs Sunbelt would keep the bowl in business. I think the problem is, Independence Bowl sees themselves as more than they are--they're a bowl with History and Tradition, a cut above johnny-come-latelies like Montgomery and the Bahamas and Boca Raton and the Cure Bowl. I don't think CUSA and the Sun Belt see it that way--Shreveport is just another southern city with a stadium and a bowl charter.

The PAC cares about the age of the Poulan Weedeater Independence Bowl, which is why they're in Shreveport and not Albuquerque or wherever.

Independence Bowl faces the same problem the Liberty Bowl faced a few years ago. They DO have a modicum of "history and tradition", and all else equal that DOES put them above all the rabble of johnny-come-lately Gasparilla and Boca Raton bowls.

But what they have failed to recognize is that payout has always mattered - that's a tradition too - and their payout has just not kept up, they've allowed it to stagnate at a low level. And history/tradition cannot overcome that.

So the Indy has to figure out how to boost their payout, to the 1.5m - 2m range, like the Liberty did, or else it will be relegated to the ashbin of history.

Except that Memphis is a major league/AAA metropolitan area with upwards of a million people, plus Beale Street, while Shreveport has about half that, and (as far as I know) mediocre casinos.

That's an exaggeration. Memphis is a second-tier metro area, arguably third-tier, it's certainly not 'major league' in the sense that Dallas and Atlanta are, it's at least one cut below that, probably two.

That said, yes, Memphis is clearly above Shreveport, which is at least one level down from Memphis.

Nevertheless, if the Independence Bowl was offering $2m per school, I don't think it would have slipped out of the SEC roster of bowls. Shreveport itself isn't some rust-belt city that used to be big and booming and prosperous but now as sunk, it's never been more than what it is right now, but for decades has had a solid bowl game anyway.

Technically it is Major League, but so is Buffalo and Green Bay.

That just means someone is promulgating a nonsensical definition of "major league", LOL.

Remember the Armed forces had two conferences be the primary with B10/B12. PAC12/CUSA be the primary sponsors. Could easily be something like

PAC 12 vs BYU (CUSA Hawaii Year and Assume Army Armed Forces Bowl)
CUSA vs Army (P12 and BYU espn years)
PAC 12 vs BYU (CUSA Hawaii Year and Assume Army Armed Forces Bowl)
CUSA vs ARMY (P12 and BYU espn years)
PAC12 vs BYU (CUSA Hawaii Year and Assume Army Armed Forces Bowl)
CUSA vs Army (P12 and BYU espn years)

(08-18-2019 04:44 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Remember the Armed forces had two conferences be the primary with B10/B12. PAC12/CUSA be the primary sponsors. Could easily be something like

PAC 12 vs BYU (CUSA Hawaii Year and Assume Army Armed Forces Bowl)
CUSA vs Army (P12 and BYU espn years)
PAC 12 vs BYU (CUSA Hawaii Year and Assume Army Armed Forces Bowl)
CUSA vs ARMY (P12 and BYU espn years)
PAC12 vs BYU (CUSA Hawaii Year and Assume Army Armed Forces Bowl)
CUSA vs Army (P12 and BYU espn years)

That would be really smart!! BYU travels well!! Army is on an uptick.... I guess SB would be Secondary???

(08-18-2019 04:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 02:02 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 12:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 12:18 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 09:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Independence Bowl faces the same problem the Liberty Bowl faced a few years ago. They DO have a modicum of "history and tradition", and all else equal that DOES put them above all the rabble of johnny-come-lately Gasparilla and Boca Raton bowls.

But what they have failed to recognize is that payout has always mattered - that's a tradition too - and their payout has just not kept up, they've allowed it to stagnate at a low level. And history/tradition cannot overcome that.

So the Indy has to figure out how to boost their payout, to the 1.5m - 2m range, like the Liberty did, or else it will be relegated to the ashbin of history.

Except that Memphis is a major league/AAA metropolitan area with upwards of a million people, plus Beale Street, while Shreveport has about half that, and (as far as I know) mediocre casinos.

That's an exaggeration. Memphis is a second-tier metro area, arguably third-tier, it's certainly not 'major league' in the sense that Dallas and Atlanta are, it's at least one cut below that, probably two.

That said, yes, Memphis is clearly above Shreveport, which is at least one level down from Memphis.

Nevertheless, if the Independence Bowl was offering $2m per school, I don't think it would have slipped out of the SEC roster of bowls. Shreveport itself isn't some rust-belt city that used to be big and booming and prosperous but now as sunk, it's never been more than what it is right now, but for decades has had a solid bowl game anyway.

Technically it is Major League, but so is Buffalo and Green Bay.

That just means someone is promulgating a nonsensical definition of "major league", LOL.

or Major League means having a team in one of the big 4 major sports leagues.

(08-18-2019 06:47 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 04:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 02:02 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 12:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 12:18 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Except that Memphis is a major league/AAA metropolitan area with upwards of a million people, plus Beale Street, while Shreveport has about half that, and (as far as I know) mediocre casinos.

That's an exaggeration. Memphis is a second-tier metro area, arguably third-tier, it's certainly not 'major league' in the sense that Dallas and Atlanta are, it's at least one cut below that, probably two.

That said, yes, Memphis is clearly above Shreveport, which is at least one level down from Memphis.

Nevertheless, if the Independence Bowl was offering $2m per school, I don't think it would have slipped out of the SEC roster of bowls. Shreveport itself isn't some rust-belt city that used to be big and booming and prosperous but now as sunk, it's never been more than what it is right now, but for decades has had a solid bowl game anyway.

Technically it is Major League, but so is Buffalo and Green Bay.

That just means someone is promulgating a nonsensical definition of "major league", LOL.

or Major League means having a team in one of the big 4 major sports leagues.

Yup. Reality check against List of Metropolitan Areas by Size. Memphis is at #43, nestled in with Milwaukee, Providence, Jacksonville, Raleigh NC, Richmond, Louisville, New Orleans, Salt LAke City, Hartford, Birmingham.

Shreveport is at 125, between Salem, OR and Fort Wayne, IN. (Mobile AL is in the same neighborhood at 131)

(08-18-2019 07:23 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 06:47 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 04:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 02:02 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 12:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's an exaggeration. Memphis is a second-tier metro area, arguably third-tier, it's certainly not 'major league' in the sense that Dallas and Atlanta are, it's at least one cut below that, probably two.

That said, yes, Memphis is clearly above Shreveport, which is at least one level down from Memphis.

Nevertheless, if the Independence Bowl was offering $2m per school, I don't think it would have slipped out of the SEC roster of bowls. Shreveport itself isn't some rust-belt city that used to be big and booming and prosperous but now as sunk, it's never been more than what it is right now, but for decades has had a solid bowl game anyway.

Technically it is Major League, but so is Buffalo and Green Bay.

That just means someone is promulgating a nonsensical definition of "major league", LOL.

or Major League means having a team in one of the big 4 major sports leagues.

Yup. Reality check against List of Metropolitan Areas by Size. Memphis is at #43, nestled in with Milwaukee, Providence, Jacksonville, Raleigh NC, Richmond, Louisville, New Orleans, Salt LAke City, Hartford, Birmingham.

Shreveport is at 125, between Salem, OR and Fort Wayne, IN. (Mobile AL is in the same neighborhood at 131)

First, a definition that says Memphis is "major league" in the same sense Dallas is is meaningless, and second, being "major league" has nothing to do with bowl viability.

The Independence Bowl has operated just fine for over 50 years. Its problems are its stagnant payout, not the nature of the city.

Maybe move it back to Philadelphia

(08-19-2019 07:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 07:23 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 06:47 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 04:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 02:02 PM)whittx Wrote:  Technically it is Major League, but so is Buffalo and Green Bay.

That just means someone is promulgating a nonsensical definition of "major league", LOL.

or Major League means having a team in one of the big 4 major sports leagues.

Yup. Reality check against List of Metropolitan Areas by Size. Memphis is at #43, nestled in with Milwaukee, Providence, Jacksonville, Raleigh NC, Richmond, Louisville, New Orleans, Salt LAke City, Hartford, Birmingham.

Shreveport is at 125, between Salem, OR and Fort Wayne, IN. (Mobile AL is in the same neighborhood at 131)

First, a definition that says Memphis is "major league" in the same sense Dallas is is meaningless, and second, being "major league" has nothing to do with bowl viability.

Disagree. Memphis isn't a top 10 metro, but it's a top 50 metro. It can support an NBA franchise plus a G5 football program and a big-time college basketball program. And that does have something to do with P5 bowl viability, because it's a proxy for how much entertainment-budget dollars are sloshing around to buy tickets, suites, local advertising, etc. Look at the SEC bowl roster. Orlando(NBA), Houston(NFL, NBA, MLB), Memphis (NBA), Charlotte(NFL, NBA), Nashville(NFL, NHL), Las Vegas(NFL, NHL), Jacksonville(NFL), Tampa (NFL, NHL). Then, Birmingham (top 50, SEC headquarters) and Tampa again.

Quote:The Independence Bowl has operated just fine for over 50 years. Its problems are its stagnant payout, not the nature of the city.

The lack of ability to increase the payout is related to the mediocrity of the city. The future of the Independence Bowl is in the same category as the Camellia, Bahamas, Albuquerque, Tuscon, Boise bowls.

(08-19-2019 11:42 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 07:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 07:23 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 06:47 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 04:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  That just means someone is promulgating a nonsensical definition of "major league", LOL.

or Major League means having a team in one of the big 4 major sports leagues.

Yup. Reality check against List of Metropolitan Areas by Size. Memphis is at #43, nestled in with Milwaukee, Providence, Jacksonville, Raleigh NC, Richmond, Louisville, New Orleans, Salt LAke City, Hartford, Birmingham.

Shreveport is at 125, between Salem, OR and Fort Wayne, IN. (Mobile AL is in the same neighborhood at 131)

First, a definition that says Memphis is "major league" in the same sense Dallas is is meaningless, and second, being "major league" has nothing to do with bowl viability.

Disagree. Memphis isn't a top 10 metro, but it's a top 50 metro.

Quote:The Independence Bowl has operated just fine for over 50 years. Its problems are its stagnant payout, not the nature of the city.

The lack of ability to increase the payout is related to the mediocrity of the city. The future of the Independence Bowl is in the same category as the Camellia, Bahamas, Albuquerque, Tuscon, Boise bowls.

You disagree with my statement that a definition of "major league" that lumps Dallas and Memphis together is meaningless? Dallas is a "top 10 metro area" and dwarfs Memphis in every way, so I am spot on about that.

As for Shreveport and the Indy Bowl, I have said all along that if they can't up their payout by about $500k per team, they are headed to the dustbin. I don't think we disagree about that. And the fact that Shreveport isn't any kind of destination city in terms of weather or entertainment, etc. sure doesn't help. But, they have run a successful bowl for over 40 years, and Shreveport has been a dump that whole time, so I'm not sure Shreveport's dump status is the big problem.

(08-19-2019 12:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 11:42 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 07:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 07:23 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 06:47 PM)whittx Wrote:  or Major League means having a team in one of the big 4 major sports leagues.

Yup. Reality check against List of Metropolitan Areas by Size. Memphis is at #43, nestled in with Milwaukee, Providence, Jacksonville, Raleigh NC, Richmond, Louisville, New Orleans, Salt LAke City, Hartford, Birmingham.

Shreveport is at 125, between Salem, OR and Fort Wayne, IN. (Mobile AL is in the same neighborhood at 131)

First, a definition that says Memphis is "major league" in the same sense Dallas is is meaningless, and second, being "major league" has nothing to do with bowl viability.

Disagree. Memphis isn't a top 10 metro, but it's a top 50 metro.

Quote:The Independence Bowl has operated just fine for over 50 years. Its problems are its stagnant payout, not the nature of the city.

The lack of ability to increase the payout is related to the mediocrity of the city. The future of the Independence Bowl is in the same category as the Camellia, Bahamas, Albuquerque, Tuscon, Boise bowls.

You disagree with my statement that a definition of "major league" that lumps Dallas and Memphis together is meaningless? Dallas is a "top 10 metro area" and dwarfs Memphis in every way, so I am spot on about that.

And Memphis dwarfs Shreveport. Dallas is not a relevant comparison.

Quote:As for Shreveport and the Indy Bowl, I have said all along that if they can't up their payout by about $500k per team, they are headed to the dustbin. I don't think we disagree about that.

I don't think it's the dustbin, I think they'll get two random G5s.

Quote: And the fact that Shreveport isn't any kind of destination city in terms of weather or entertainment, etc. sure doesn't help. But, they have run a successful bowl for over 40 years, and Shreveport has been a dump that whole time, so I'm not sure Shreveport's dump status is the big problem.

As college football has become bigger business, Shreveport has gotten more competition. Bowl games in NFL showcase stadiums in Charlotte, Nashville, Houston, Phoenix have jumped Independence in the pecking order.

(08-19-2019 12:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 11:42 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 07:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 07:23 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2019 06:47 PM)whittx Wrote:  or Major League means having a team in one of the big 4 major sports leagues.

Yup. Reality check against List of Metropolitan Areas by Size. Memphis is at #43, nestled in with Milwaukee, Providence, Jacksonville, Raleigh NC, Richmond, Louisville, New Orleans, Salt LAke City, Hartford, Birmingham.

Shreveport is at 125, between Salem, OR and Fort Wayne, IN. (Mobile AL is in the same neighborhood at 131)

First, a definition that says Memphis is "major league" in the same sense Dallas is is meaningless, and second, being "major league" has nothing to do with bowl viability.

Disagree. Memphis isn't a top 10 metro, but it's a top 50 metro.

Quote:The Independence Bowl has operated just fine for over 50 years. Its problems are its stagnant payout, not the nature of the city.

The lack of ability to increase the payout is related to the mediocrity of the city. The future of the Independence Bowl is in the same category as the Camellia, Bahamas, Albuquerque, Tuscon, Boise bowls.

You disagree with my statement that a definition of "major league" that lumps Dallas and Memphis together is meaningless? Dallas is a "top 10 metro area" and dwarfs Memphis in every way, so I am spot on about that.

And Memphis dwarfs Shreveport. Dallas is not a relevant comparison.

EDIT You don't disagree with that either. You just disagree with the popular rule of thumb for "major league city" as "having a major pro sports franchise". We are at an impasse there.

Quote:As for Shreveport and the Indy Bowl, I have said all along that if they can't up their payout by about $500k per team, they are headed to the dustbin. I don't think we disagree about that.

I don't think it's the dustbin, I think they'll get two random G5s.

We agree, if they can't come up with more money, they get left in the dust. I'm just pointing out that the money likely isn't there, because Shreveport is a dump and doesn't have the money sloshing around that Memphis or Birmingham has.

Quote: And the fact that Shreveport isn't any kind of destination city in terms of weather or entertainment, etc. sure doesn't help. But, they have run a successful bowl for over 40 years, and Shreveport has been a dump that whole time, so I'm not sure Shreveport's dump status is the big problem.

As college football has become bigger business, Shreveport has gotten more competition. Bowl games in NFL showcase stadiums in Charlotte, Nashville, Houston, Phoenix have jumped Independence in the pecking order.

Shreveport's dump status wasn't a problem when they were one of a dozen cities hosting bowl games, or one of 20 games. Now, there are 40 or so cities hosting, another dozen cities looking at Montgomery AL and the Bahamas and saying "we could do that", so Shreveport has serious competition for landing a P5 bowl tie-in, and the only card they have to play is the glorious "history" of the Poulan Weedeater Bowl.

The Sun Bowl is in the same sort of category, but the PAC and ACC are propping each other up there because they lack better options.