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NoDak Offline
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Post: #421
RE: New School maybe
(08-13-2019 09:24 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  Is this the Fairytale Thread? Where do some people get their information? Has any conference ever lost their NCAA D1 status due to lack of members? The NCAA has issued waivers for conference's automatic bids in other sports- that lacked the minimum number of schools. So, if the WAC ever fell below the required number, I'm sure the NCAA would give the WAC waivers, until they get enough members.

I could even see the NCAA reducing the number of years to make the NCAA tourney for D2 schools moving to D1, if that would encourage more D2 schools to make the move up.

The WAC is unstable because each member would bail out, if they were invited to a more regional conference. I can imagine each current WAC school trying to persuade D2 schools moving up, and the D2 school asks how can my school be assured that all current WAC members will stay in the conference by time I'm NCAA tourney eligible? I'm not blaming any school for watching out for themselves. All's fair in conference realignment!
The Great Midwest Conference teams were mostly absorbed by CUSA.

The Southwest Conference was dissolved.

The ECAC lost their bid when it became a number of single sports conferences. Most of its members associated full time in other conferences except hockey and minor sports.

There was also an East Coast Conference that lost its bid back in the 1990’s.
Read about it here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Coa...ivision_I)

The Summit League also underwent major upheaval in 1994. It lost Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Cleveland St, Northern Illinois, Ill-Chicago, Wright State, and Wisconsin-Green Bay to the Horizon and then absorbed the ECC destroying it. So the Summit soon had teams on the from East Coast Conference, South (Troy St and Centenary), Midwest (UNKC, NE Illinois, Oakland, and Chicago St) and West (Southern Utah).

Rest assured the WAC will pull in a number of schools from the Southland and even from the Big Sky.

The upcoming realignment will be bigger the the Horizon-Summit-ECC mess only this time no conference will go under.

New conferences can no longer be formed so older ones are guarded closely as the non-P5 now their autobids will be used mostly for P5 at large bids. Since the no new conference rule came, no conference autobid has been dissolved.

Massive movements in a conference occur, but rarely.
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 01:00 AM by NoDak.)
08-13-2019 10:54 PM
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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #422
RE: New School maybe
Ok, I'll play along with your fantasyland idea of the Southland schools coming to the WAC and forming a football conference. They would need at least four schools and ideally six schools from the Southland and D2.

NMSU
Dixie

Sam Houston
SFA
ACU
Lamar

Non football schools
CBU
GCU
Seattle
UVU
UTRGV

Corpus Christi-from the Southland to make an even 12!

The likely hood of this happening is about the same as the Tigers winning the World Series this year!
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 03:22 AM by Hilldog.)
08-14-2019 02:09 AM
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Post: #423
RE: New School maybe
(08-13-2019 08:44 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Augustana is not bribing the Summit schools to go into the WAC. The business interests in Sioux Falls support the conference tournament and want Augustana as a participant.

https://letsgodu.com/2019/08/13/cozy-sum...augustana/

I don't agree with all of your predictions but I'm in full agreement with you on this. Augustana's objective is to join the Summit League and Augustana's benefactors are pulling strings to try to make it happen. I won't be the least bit surprised if they succeed.
08-14-2019 03:18 AM
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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #424
RE: New School maybe
Minnesota is a huge state by land size, yet only has one D1 school. Any schools in Minnesota making the move to D1?
08-14-2019 10:14 AM
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Post: #425
RE: New School maybe
(08-13-2019 05:00 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 12:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 10:14 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Where is the information the WAC still qualifies for an autobid by rule with two transitional member when UMKC, Bakersfield and Chicago St are gone?

???

These posters will believe anything, so the NCAA rules will comply for the WAC? But this board seems filled with fantasy.

Presidents don’t allow their autobids to go belly up.

You are assuming Chicago State is gone. There is no evidence that they are leaving. Even if Chicago State were to drop to D2, they would need to submit an application and get approval from the NCAA. Then there is a two year transition to D2. On the subjects of D1 classification and grace periods, this is from the NCAA rule book:

20.9.7.3.1 Reclassifying Opponents. A reclassifying institution shall be counted as a Division I opponent in the year the reclassifying institution must comply with Division I scheduling requirements (year two of reclassifying). A reclassifying institution may be counted as a Division I opponent in year one of the reclassification process if the reclassifying institution meets Division I scheduling requirements.

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of the withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members.

Worst case scenario, the WAC is going to have time. CBU and Dixie State will count for the conference membership. The grace period rule will keep Summit baseball going another two seasons after PFW leaves as long as they don't lose another baseball school.
Your rules have nothing to do with an active DI institution that conferences need for the NCAA.

A reclassified institution that now counts as a DI school for other DI schools schedules is not yet an active DI school that the WAC needs. Only a school that is active for an NCAA tournament bid is: the NCAA declares an active institution like it did for GCU when their transition is officially over.

When a school is reclassifying, as CBU is, they are D1 for everything except NCAA postseason tournaments. It is really that simple. So if the WAC got down to seven schools and two are reclassifying, that would not effect the postseason hopes of the other five schools. It is just common sense. The NCAA rules are clear about that.
08-14-2019 01:59 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #426
RE: New School maybe
(08-14-2019 01:59 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 05:00 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 12:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 10:14 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Where is the information the WAC still qualifies for an autobid by rule with two transitional member when UMKC, Bakersfield and Chicago St are gone?

???

These posters will believe anything, so the NCAA rules will comply for the WAC? But this board seems filled with fantasy.

Presidents don’t allow their autobids to go belly up.

You are assuming Chicago State is gone. There is no evidence that they are leaving. Even if Chicago State were to drop to D2, they would need to submit an application and get approval from the NCAA. Then there is a two year transition to D2. On the subjects of D1 classification and grace periods, this is from the NCAA rule book:

20.9.7.3.1 Reclassifying Opponents. A reclassifying institution shall be counted as a Division I opponent in the year the reclassifying institution must comply with Division I scheduling requirements (year two of reclassifying). A reclassifying institution may be counted as a Division I opponent in year one of the reclassification process if the reclassifying institution meets Division I scheduling requirements.

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of the withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members.

Worst case scenario, the WAC is going to have time. CBU and Dixie State will count for the conference membership. The grace period rule will keep Summit baseball going another two seasons after PFW leaves as long as they don't lose another baseball school.
Your rules have nothing to do with an active DI institution that conferences need for the NCAA.

A reclassified institution that now counts as a DI school for other DI schools schedules is not yet an active DI school that the WAC needs. Only a school that is active for an NCAA tournament bid is: the NCAA declares an active institution like it did for GCU when their transition is officially over.

When a school is reclassifying, as CBU is, they are D1 for everything except NCAA postseason tournaments. It is really that simple. So if the WAC got down to seven schools and two are reclassifying, that would not effect the postseason hopes of the other five schools. It is just common sense. The NCAA rules are clear about that.

They can’t vote on DI matters because the NCAA does consider them DI until they have finished the transition.
08-14-2019 02:15 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #427
RE: New School maybe
(08-14-2019 10:14 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Minnesota is a huge state by land size, yet only has one D1 school. Any schools in Minnesota making the move to D1?

St Thomas is trying to get a waiver or rule change to go directly from DIII to DI. The newspapers reported that the MIAC kicked them out, but more likely St Thomas wanted out and lobbied to get kicked out. Even if they have to go DII, hockey can sill go DI, and that will be the major revenue sport. St Thomas is rumored to build an arena near the new MSL stadium and their upside is at least MVC and could be higher. St Thomas is comparable in academics and endowment to Marquette or Creighton, and last century they played in a league with the Dakotas.

The Minnesots St system is really tight with money for athletics. St Cloud St has lost a Title IX suit.
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 02:32 PM by NoDak.)
08-14-2019 02:19 PM
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Post: #428
RE: New School maybe
(08-14-2019 02:09 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Ok, I'll play along with your fantasyland idea of the Southland schools coming to the WAC and forming a football conference. They would need at least four schools and ideally six schools from the Southland and D2.

NMSU
Dixie

Sam Houston
SFA
ACU
Lamar

Non football schools
CBU
GCU
Seattle
UVU
UTRGV

Corpus Christi-from the Southland to make an even 12!

The likely hood of this happening is about the same as the Tigers winning the World Series this year!

This is my version:

WAC Pacific

Cal Poly - Cal Baptist
Sac St - UC Davis
NMSU - GCU

WAC Southwest

UTRGV - UIW
McNeese St - Lamar
Sam Houston St
ORU - UMKC

Dixie St, UVU, and Seattle go to the Big Sky for geography.

UMKC announced a move to help get rid of Chicago St.
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 02:27 PM by NoDak.)
08-14-2019 02:24 PM
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Post: #429
RE: New School maybe
(08-14-2019 02:24 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 02:09 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Ok, I'll play along with your fantasyland idea of the Southland schools coming to the WAC and forming a football conference. They would need at least four schools and ideally six schools from the Southland and D2.

NMSU
Dixie

Sam Houston
SFA
ACU
Lamar

Non football schools
CBU
GCU
Seattle
UVU
UTRGV

Corpus Christi-from the Southland to make an even 12!

The likely hood of this happening is about the same as the Tigers winning the World Series this year!

This is my version:

WAC Pacific

Cal Poly - Cal Baptist
Sac St - UC Davis
NMSU - GCU

WAC Southwest

UTRGV - UIW
McNeese St - Lamar
Sam Houston St
ORU - UMKC

Dixie St, UVU, and Seattle go to the Big Sky for geography.

UMKC announced a move to help get rid of Chicago St.
What size Tigers 2019 World Series Champions cap will you need?
08-14-2019 04:39 PM
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RE: New School maybe
(08-13-2019 08:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  UC-CS hasn’t built a new revenue producing basketball facility yet as their on campus one is small... Have a sibling in the Springs, and when I asked if they could go DI, no was the answer as the population is too pro sport orientated and UC-CS doesn’t have that much following.

Pretty much the same could have been said of UNOmaha (and was said) when they moved to D1: no following, no room for them - Huskers and Creighton take all the air out of the room, etc. When I went to UNO D2 bball games when they were in the MIAA conference, I don't think I ever saw 400 people in the old Sapp Field House. Now that they are playing D1 schools, they average over 2000 in their new arena.

UC-CS could build a following. If the administration thinks it is in the interest of their institution to be associated with D1 schools, resources will be committed to make it happen. UC-CS has more students than Bakersfield or Dixie ... or SUU or NAU or So. Dakota (and doesn't have expensive football like the last 4).
08-14-2019 04:51 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #431
RE: New School maybe
(08-14-2019 04:51 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 08:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  UC-CS hasn’t built a new revenue producing basketball facility yet as their on campus one is small... Have a sibling in the Springs, and when I asked if they could go DI, no was the answer as the population is too pro sport orientated and UC-CS doesn’t have that much following.

Pretty much the same could have been said of UNOmaha (and was said) when they moved to D1: no following, no room for them - Huskers and Creighton take all the air out of the room, etc. When I went to UNO D2 bball games when they were in the MIAA conference, I don't think I ever saw 400 people in the old Sapp Field House. Now that they are playing D1 schools, they average over 2000 in their new arena.

UC-CS could build a following. If the administration thinks it is in the interest of their institution to be associated with D1 schools, resources will be committed to make it happen. UC-CS has more students than Bakersfield or Dixie ... or SUU or NAU or So. Dakota (and doesn't have expensive football like the last 4).
The difference is that Omaha had hockey that attracted great crowds of 10k in the main arena in town and Creighton and the Huskers didn’t have that, so UNO hockey didn’t threaten those fans. UC-CS could start hockey, but they would go against CC and Air Force in that sport.

Omaha will always be third on the mind, but hockey gave it an opening to be first.
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 05:05 PM by NoDak.)
08-14-2019 05:03 PM
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Post: #432
RE: New School maybe
(08-14-2019 02:15 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 01:59 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 05:00 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 12:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 10:14 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Where is the information the WAC still qualifies for an autobid by rule with two transitional member when UMKC, Bakersfield and Chicago St are gone?

???

These posters will believe anything, so the NCAA rules will comply for the WAC? But this board seems filled with fantasy.

Presidents don’t allow their autobids to go belly up.

You are assuming Chicago State is gone. There is no evidence that they are leaving. Even if Chicago State were to drop to D2, they would need to submit an application and get approval from the NCAA. Then there is a two year transition to D2. On the subjects of D1 classification and grace periods, this is from the NCAA rule book:

20.9.7.3.1 Reclassifying Opponents. A reclassifying institution shall be counted as a Division I opponent in the year the reclassifying institution must comply with Division I scheduling requirements (year two of reclassifying). A reclassifying institution may be counted as a Division I opponent in year one of the reclassification process if the reclassifying institution meets Division I scheduling requirements.

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of the withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members.

Worst case scenario, the WAC is going to have time. CBU and Dixie State will count for the conference membership. The grace period rule will keep Summit baseball going another two seasons after PFW leaves as long as they don't lose another baseball school.
Your rules have nothing to do with an active DI institution that conferences need for the NCAA.

A reclassified institution that now counts as a DI school for other DI schools schedules is not yet an active DI school that the WAC needs. Only a school that is active for an NCAA tournament bid is: the NCAA declares an active institution like it did for GCU when their transition is officially over.

When a school is reclassifying, as CBU is, they are D1 for everything except NCAA postseason tournaments. It is really that simple. So if the WAC got down to seven schools and two are reclassifying, that would not effect the postseason hopes of the other five schools. It is just common sense. The NCAA rules are clear about that.

They can’t vote on DI matters because the NCAA does consider them DI until they have finished the transition.

This what you said in a previous post:

"The WAC will be down to five full members after UMKC and Chicago St leave. Cal Baptist and Dixie St won’t count as full members for several years, so the WAC will run out of the two years grace period before.

The NCAA is run by the P5, which doesn’t like autobids for small conferences, but like at large bids for P5 schools.

The WAC needs to get at least two fully DI schools soon."


The statement is just not true. Read the NCAA rules and regulations above. The WAC would be good at seven with two reclassifying. Who cares about their voting status! The important thing is their playing status and they are like any other D1 school in the regular season.
08-14-2019 05:24 PM
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RE: New School maybe
(08-14-2019 05:24 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 02:15 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 01:59 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 05:00 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 12:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  You are assuming Chicago State is gone. There is no evidence that they are leaving. Even if Chicago State were to drop to D2, they would need to submit an application and get approval from the NCAA. Then there is a two year transition to D2. On the subjects of D1 classification and grace periods, this is from the NCAA rule book:

20.9.7.3.1 Reclassifying Opponents. A reclassifying institution shall be counted as a Division I opponent in the year the reclassifying institution must comply with Division I scheduling requirements (year two of reclassifying). A reclassifying institution may be counted as a Division I opponent in year one of the reclassification process if the reclassifying institution meets Division I scheduling requirements.

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of the withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members.

Worst case scenario, the WAC is going to have time. CBU and Dixie State will count for the conference membership. The grace period rule will keep Summit baseball going another two seasons after PFW leaves as long as they don't lose another baseball school.
Your rules have nothing to do with an active DI institution that conferences need for the NCAA.

A reclassified institution that now counts as a DI school for other DI schools schedules is not yet an active DI school that the WAC needs. Only a school that is active for an NCAA tournament bid is: the NCAA declares an active institution like it did for GCU when their transition is officially over.

When a school is reclassifying, as CBU is, they are D1 for everything except NCAA postseason tournaments. It is really that simple. So if the WAC got down to seven schools and two are reclassifying, that would not effect the postseason hopes of the other five schools. It is just common sense. The NCAA rules are clear about that.

They can’t vote on DI matters because the NCAA does consider them DI until they have finished the transition.

This what you said in a previous post:

"The WAC will be down to five full members after UMKC and Chicago St leave. Cal Baptist and Dixie St won’t count as full members for several years, so the WAC will run out of the two years grace period before.

The NCAA is run by the P5, which doesn’t like autobids for small conferences, but like at large bids for P5 schools.

The WAC needs to get at least two fully DI schools soon."


The statement is just not true. Read the NCAA rules and regulations above. The WAC would be good at seven with two reclassifying. Who cares about their voting status! The important thing is their playing status and they are like any other D1 school in the regular season.

The NCAA cares. I followed reclassification rules closely in the 2000’s when the Dakotas moved up. Conferences didn’t want reclassifying teams then, as they didn’t count for five years. One didn’t need a conference invite then to go DI. The same rule applied to reclassifying schools as all were counted as DI for scheduling the same as Cal Baptist. If you can get your school SID to confirm that a reclassifying school will count in the 2nd year even if they aren’t recognized as a DI active member, then I might agree.

The NCAA rules and interpretations have changed many times, but it doesn’t want a conference to have two members that are eligible and five that are not, but you would call that an autobid conference.
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 06:35 PM by NoDak.)
08-14-2019 05:37 PM
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RE: New School maybe
(08-14-2019 05:37 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 05:24 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 02:15 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 01:59 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 05:00 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Your rules have nothing to do with an active DI institution that conferences need for the NCAA.

A reclassified institution that now counts as a DI school for other DI schools schedules is not yet an active DI school that the WAC needs. Only a school that is active for an NCAA tournament bid is: the NCAA declares an active institution like it did for GCU when their transition is officially over.

When a school is reclassifying, as CBU is, they are D1 for everything except NCAA postseason tournaments. It is really that simple. So if the WAC got down to seven schools and two are reclassifying, that would not effect the postseason hopes of the other five schools. It is just common sense. The NCAA rules are clear about that.

They can’t vote on DI matters because the NCAA does consider them DI until they have finished the transition.

This what you said in a previous post:

"The WAC will be down to five full members after UMKC and Chicago St leave. Cal Baptist and Dixie St won’t count as full members for several years, so the WAC will run out of the two years grace period before.

The NCAA is run by the P5, which doesn’t like autobids for small conferences, but like at large bids for P5 schools.

The WAC needs to get at least two fully DI schools soon."


The statement is just not true. Read the NCAA rules and regulations above. The WAC would be good at seven with two reclassifying. Who cares about their voting status! The important thing is their playing status and they are like any other D1 school in the regular season.

The NCAA cares. I followed reclassification rules closely in the 2000’s when the Dakotas moved up. Conferences didn’t want reclassifying teams then, as they didn’t count for five years. One didn’t need a conference invite then to go DI. The same rule applied to reclassifying schools as all were counted as DI for scheduling the same as Cal Baptist. If you can get your school SID to confirm that a reclassifying school will count in the 2nd year even if they aren’t recognized as a DI active member, then I might agree.

The NCAA rules and interpretations have changed many times, but it doesn’t want a conference to have two members that are eligible and five that are not, but you would call that an autobid conference.

Transitioning D1 schools count as D1 for scheduling purposes in their 2nd year of transitioning. They aren't a full NCAA D1 voting member till going into their 5th season.
08-14-2019 07:22 PM
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RE: New School maybe
(08-14-2019 07:22 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 05:37 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 05:24 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 02:15 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 01:59 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  When a school is reclassifying, as CBU is, they are D1 for everything except NCAA postseason tournaments. It is really that simple. So if the WAC got down to seven schools and two are reclassifying, that would not effect the postseason hopes of the other five schools. It is just common sense. The NCAA rules are clear about that.

They can’t vote on DI matters because the NCAA does consider them DI until they have finished the transition.

This what you said in a previous post:

"The WAC will be down to five full members after UMKC and Chicago St leave. Cal Baptist and Dixie St won’t count as full members for several years, so the WAC will run out of the two years grace period before.

The NCAA is run by the P5, which doesn’t like autobids for small conferences, but like at large bids for P5 schools.

The WAC needs to get at least two fully DI schools soon."


The statement is just not true. Read the NCAA rules and regulations above. The WAC would be good at seven with two reclassifying. Who cares about their voting status! The important thing is their playing status and they are like any other D1 school in the regular season.

The NCAA cares. I followed reclassification rules closely in the 2000’s when the Dakotas moved up. Conferences didn’t want reclassifying teams then, as they didn’t count for five years. One didn’t need a conference invite then to go DI. The same rule applied to reclassifying schools as all were counted as DI for scheduling the same as Cal Baptist. If you can get your school SID to confirm that a reclassifying school will count in the 2nd year even if they aren’t recognized as a DI active member, then I might agree.

The NCAA rules and interpretations have changed many times, but it doesn’t want a conference to have two members that are eligible and five that are not, but you would call that an autobid conference.

Transitioning D1 schools count as D1 for scheduling purposes in their 2nd year of transitioning. They aren't a full NCAA D1 voting member till going into their 5th season.

That’s exactly what I’ve been saying, but most posters seem to disagree.

A DI active or voting member is what fulfills the conference requirement.
08-14-2019 08:21 PM
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RE: New School maybe
(08-12-2019 06:21 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 05:21 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  After CBU's 1st season, it is now viewed by the NCAA as a D1 program and a full member of the WAC. CBU is simply required to maintain the D1 scheduling/participant requirements for the next four seasons to gain NCAA Tournament eligibility. The key is after this upcoming season; when we lose Cal State Bakersfield and UM Kansas City and possibly Chicago State; which could drop the WAC D1 membership to six. However, Dixie State would follow the same status as CBU (currently). Meeting the NCAA two year/7member requirement window by Dixie State's second year. Dixie State wont count toward the conference membership its first season but as of its' second season, Dixie State will be view as a D1 program and a full member of the WAC; bring the membership back up to 7.

Full DI members can qualify for an autobid, which Dixie St and Cal Baptist can’t. Those schools will still be in transition that don’t count as full members. The transition always them to be treated like full members to otherDI members like Cal Baptist will be, but the NCAA does not consider them full members for several more years.

Not worried in the least for the WAC’s autobid, because the Big Sky, Summit will be exchanging schools and the Southland will be losing them.
It’s been worked out for years what’s coming..

Both parts of your statement are wrong.

CBU counts as a full member for auto-bid status (not that they can earn it themselves ) this year.

And no, the Big Sky and Slummit aren't exchanging schools. The Slummit might pay UNC to move baseball to the Slummit so the Slummit doesn't lose it's autobid, but that is it.
08-14-2019 09:04 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: New School maybe
(08-12-2019 09:11 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 09:08 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:58 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:32 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The WAC also has to comply with the three male team sport rule. At least six WAC members need to be sponsoring baseball and men’s soccer and all basketball. The Summit will be less that six members in men’s soccer and baseball when PFW leaves, making it necessary to get more schools. Men’s soccer and baseball are not common in that part of country, and most of them are needed by the MVC or the Horizon League.

The Summit has been below six all-sports members in men's soccer for a number of years. They use Eastern Illinois for the 6th member. As you said, the Summit will fall to five baseball schools in 2021. They will need a waiver from the NCAA for baseball. The WAC will have 10 in baseball and 11 in men's soccer in 2020. They will be fine.

My understanding is that a league satisfies those three male team sports if it has men’s basketball with seven members, one with six, and one with five with one affiliate. The Summit will go out of compliance when PFW leaves.

It should go back into compliance with seven FCS schools, which eliminates the need to sponsor the other two sports.

Are you saying that the Summit is going to add football?

That is not going to happen, no more than any of his other delusions
08-14-2019 09:05 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: New School maybe
(08-12-2019 09:38 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 09:32 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 09:11 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 09:08 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:58 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  The Summit has been below six all-sports members in men's soccer for a number of years. They use Eastern Illinois for the 6th member. As you said, the Summit will fall to five baseball schools in 2021. They will need a waiver from the NCAA for baseball. The WAC will have 10 in baseball and 11 in men's soccer in 2020. They will be fine.

My understanding is that a league satisfies those three male team sports if it has men’s basketball with seven members, one with six, and one with five with one affiliate. The Summit will go out of compliance when PFW leaves.

It should go back into compliance with seven FCS schools, which eliminates the need to sponsor the other two sports.

Are you saying that the Summit is going to add football?

From what I gather, he thinks the Montana schools are going to leave an established FCS conference to create a new Summit FCS football conference with the Dakota schools, Western Illinois, and FOUR non-football playing schools (Oral Roberts, Denver, UM Kansas City, UN Omaha).

ORU and UMKC will go to the WAC. WIU will go to the OVC. The Montanas, Idaho, EWU, and Weber St to the Summit so it will have a western division with Denver.

ORU left the Southland after two years when the Summit ran out of grace period after ORU previously left. It was critical that the Summit got back a baseball and men’s soccer team or lose their autobid.


Good lord you get dumber every post. Why would UMKC, which left the WAC to save money, go back?
08-14-2019 09:06 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #439
RE: New School maybe
This discussion has become ridiculous. The only thing that matters is whether CBU and Dixie State will count for D1 scheduling and as conference members. The rules clearly state they do:

3.3.1.3 Composition of Conference. All of the members of the conference shall be active members of Division I or be
engaged in the reclassification process pursuant to Bylaw 20.5.


20.9.7.3.1 Reclassifying Opponents. A reclassifying institution shall be counted as a Division I opponent in the year the reclassifying institution must comply with Division I scheduling requirements (year two of reclassifying). A reclassifying institution may be counted as a Division I opponent in year one of the reclassification process if the reclassifying institution meets Division I scheduling requirements.

For the WAC fans on this board, that is all we care about. Voting, being active or playing in a postseason tournament are not important for CBU or Dixie State at this time. The concern is that the CBU and Dixie State count on the schedule and in the conference. The active members get to play in the postseason and vote. End of discussion.
08-14-2019 09:43 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #440
RE: New School maybe
CBU already counts this year, their second year. Dixie State will count as a D-II school in 2020-21. But they will count as a D-I school in 2021-22 onward. The same was true of GCU when they moved up. The first year in the WAC they counted D-II, after that they counted D-I on the schedule.

SoCalBobcat is 100% correct on this, it's a non-issue. A conference like the WAC can invite one D-II move up every year and it would not make any schools schedule run afoul of the NCAA.

And even if they invited 2 schools in a given year, the NCAA would almost certainly give the school a pass on the issue for a year. The NCAA are not sticklers for enforcing the segments of the rule book which are in effect guidelines. They are well aware and understanding that a school could get out of compliance through no fault of their own for a year. They are not going to lay down the law over it.

The same is true of the Summit being short a baseball school. The NCAA would issue a hundred waivers before they'd force an otherwise stable conference with 9 full members in good standing with the NCAA to become homeless.
08-15-2019 01:12 AM
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