Very troubling situation... at what point do you just shut it down? If you can’t serve your student athletes, promote your student athletes or make sure they are eligible to compete... why bother?

Just one athletic trainer? Seriously? How do you keep them safe and how does that one trainer manage?

—--
Symptomatic of CSU’s athletic department’s woes, the University has yet to fill the vacancy of two vital positions within the athletic department; that of Sports Information Director and a Compliance Officer. Now seven months after the tragic and sudden death of longtime and beloved SID Corey Miggins, who passed away in January from flu complications, the public is literally in the dark about CSU athletics. With that position vacant, media outlets and members that could help promote CSU’s sports programs, have no access to the team’s schedules, current rosters or other vital information, thus giving a tactical advantage to other Division I schools that are recruiting against CSU. By comparison locally, Loyola, UIC, DePaul, Northwestern, even schools that are not Division I like Governors State and Prairie State College have a current SID.

The lack of a compliance officer could be even more dangerous for CSU as without someone in that position, teams have a risk or playing ineligible players or violating NCAA rules, which could land the school in hot water. As of the Crusader’s deadline, the athletic department was also operating without an academic coordinator for student-athletes. All these issues hurt CSU’s recruiting efforts

https://chicagocrusader.com/zorich-out-a...rthcoming/

This paragraph caught my attention:

"However one big rumor swirling around the campus in which CSU officials would neither confirm nor deny is that has student-athletes and coaches concerned about the University’s commitment to Division I athletics soon, is of an upcoming audit. The Crusader has learned through sources at other institutions in the WAC and sources at CSU that the University has hired an outside auditor to do an assessment of CSU athletics, who will then recommend if the school should remain in Division I. The auditor will be paid around $50,000. The auditor served 17 years at a Big 12 Conference school as an athletic director."

Disaster

As I mentioned in a different post, they hired a Compliance Director in July.. and from looking at his resume he has a wealth of experience. After Corey Miggins death, they had student interns operating as the interim SID. I’m assuming that was and still is the case. They removed the job posting of a SID a few weeks ago. Finally, they have an Associate Athletic Director for Academics, but no one listed as an Academic Coordinator as of yet.

It will be interesting what come of the audit...

“The auditor served 17 years at a Big 12 Conference school as an athletic director” seems to fit former Mizzou AD Mike Alden.

End of the road for Chicago State D-I athletics.

I am sure Z Scott would love to shut it down totally. However 78 Men and 73 Women were on the Varsity teams, and the school only had 409 Men and 888 Women enrolled last year. Dropping sports entirely would bring the head count perilously close to the 1000 level, which if they fall below they lose a couple of important designations, critical for funding.

So D-II seems likely along with dropping down to just 10 or 11 sports instead of 15 and reducing funding. Chicagoland conference includes several schools with budgets of only $1M (e.g., Governors State) to $2M, which Chicago State could compete in, without much change in actual number of athletes for far less than the $5M they spend in D-I.

I fully expect Chicago State to drop down to D-II, perhaps as early as 2020.

This will change the WAC dramatically losing UMKC, Chicago State and CSU Bakersfield in one blow, with Dixie State coming on board.

*************************************************

Tennis looks most effected, all other sports above the 6 minimum, so safe. But only 4 Men's (NMSU, Seattle, UT-RGV, GCU) and 5 Women's (add Dixie State) teams. On the Women's side Binghamton is an Independent who could be invited to the Tournament for a 6th (obviously not part of the schedule) - their men's Golf plays in the Big Sky Tournament. But the men have no options, except to try to latch on as associates somewhere. And I don't see many options (The Big Sky has 11, so a 12th might help scheduling, and the Summit will have 9 so the same)

Chicagoland Conference is a NAIA conference.

(08-04-2019 02:33 AM)AZcats Wrote:  Chicagoland Conference is a NAIA conference.

Indeed. But the schools in it have very similar profiles to Chicago State and are within bus distance. They also have budgets Chicago State can afford.

At the moment, Z Scott has to write a check for $4M from the school to keep athletics going, and it brings in only about $5-7,000 in gate a year and no donations (excepting one very large $96,0000 donation 18 months ago, there was literally $0 donated since 2013 -- the AD was fired in large part because he did no fund raising). In addition $1M is diverted from student fees (which are 95% from the State of Illinois given most students are on aid) to keep the department open.

In short $4,000 a full time student (only 1,297 according to US Department of Education) is diverted to Athletics. Z Scott is not doubt looking at the buildings they cannot use because they were declared unsafe for human occupation, and the boiler explosions, and other deferred maintenance disasters, and thinking that $5M a year could go a long way to fixing the campus, or at least making it safe.

The closest NCAA D-II conference is the Great Lakes Valley. There would be no savings here, as the budgets are about what Chicago State currently has, and the schools are mostly bigger. But travel would be less.

I think the Chicagoland fits where Chicago State actually is at.

(08-04-2019 12:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 02:33 AM)AZcats Wrote:  Chicagoland Conference is a NAIA conference.

Indeed. But the schools in it have very similar profiles to Chicago State and are within bus distance. They also have budgets Chicago State can afford.

At the moment, Z Scott has to write a check for $4M from the school to keep athletics going, and it brings in only about $5-7,000 in gate a year and no donations (excepting one very large $96,0000 donation 18 months ago, there was literally $0 donated since 2013 -- the AD was fired in large part because he did no fund raising). In addition $1M is diverted from student fees (which are 95% from the State of Illinois given most students are on aid) to keep the department open.

In short $4,000 a full time student (only 1,297 according to US Department of Education) is diverted to Athletics. Z Scott is not doubt looking at the buildings they cannot use because they were declared unsafe for human occupation, and the boiler explosions, and other deferred maintenance disasters, and thinking that $5M a year could go a long way to fixing the campus, or at least making it safe.

The closest NCAA D-II conference is the Great Lakes Valley. There would be no savings here, as the budgets are about what Chicago State currently has, and the schools are mostly bigger. But travel would be less.

I think the Chicagoland fits where Chicago State actually is at.

Chicago State would not be the first to go from DI to NAIA and I agree that is where they should be. I doubt the Great Lakes Valley would be interested in adding Chicago State. They would prefer a football school. CSU would also have to add the GLVC required sports of men's soccer and softball.

(08-03-2019 08:36 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  It will be interesting what come of the audit...

I think the audit may occur before they hire an AD, cause then they will hire an AD based on the results of the audit.

(08-04-2019 02:38 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

(08-03-2019 08:36 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  It will be interesting what come of the audit...

I think the audit may occur before they hire an AD, cause then they will hire an AD based on the results of the audit.

I think that is an accurate statement. Assuming there is actually an audit, we do not know what the purpose of the audit is. Stu's view that this is the "End of the road for Chicago State D-I athletics" is as usual, overstating the issue.

The issues that will need to be answered in an audit are:

1. What is working?
2. What is not working?
3. What Improvements need to be put in place?
4. What will it cost?
5. What are the alternatives?

This is not complicated. According to their 2017-2018 budget report, Chicago State had a graduation with their student-athletes of 72% and 13 of the 14 sport programs had an Academic Progress Rate above 964 (NCAA minimum is 930). So that seems to be working. Chicago State had 170 student-athletes on their sports teams in 2018-2019.

The revenue from the guarantee or money games helps their athletic department. In 2017-2018, the department reported a profit in men's basketball of $273,000. The 7,000 seat events center is paid for, thanks to the state of Illinois. What is not working is they are not winning and they are barely competitive. Their net ranking of 353 in men's basketball last season was dead last in the country.

The basketball head coaching hires for men's and women's basketball were good and are the kind of improvements that were needed. They are going to need to increase their athletic budget from the 2017-2018 total of $6.2 million by at least a million dollars, with at least half of that going to men's and woman's basketball. That increase those not need to happen in one year, but should happen over a three year period.

Dropping down to D2 does not save any money. Dropping athletics saves $6.2 million. But the school also loses 170 student-athletes. In a school that needs students, losing 170 students that are graduating at a much higher rate than the rest of the student body does not make sense. They have the $38 million events center built in 2007 and their $2.5 million baseball stadium built in 2013. Those are recent investments in athletics that just say, "We are a D1 school."

(08-04-2019 01:44 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 12:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 02:33 AM)AZcats Wrote:  Chicagoland Conference is a NAIA conference.

Indeed. But the schools in it have very similar profiles to Chicago State and are within bus distance. They also have budgets Chicago State can afford.

At the moment, Z Scott has to write a check for $4M from the school to keep athletics going, and it brings in only about $5-7,000 in gate a year and no donations (excepting one very large $96,0000 donation 18 months ago, there was literally $0 donated since 2013 -- the AD was fired in large part because he did no fund raising). In addition $1M is diverted from student fees (which are 95% from the State of Illinois given most students are on aid) to keep the department open.

In short $4,000 a full time student (only 1,297 according to US Department of Education) is diverted to Athletics. Z Scott is not doubt looking at the buildings they cannot use because they were declared unsafe for human occupation, and the boiler explosions, and other deferred maintenance disasters, and thinking that $5M a year could go a long way to fixing the campus, or at least making it safe.

The closest NCAA D-II conference is the Great Lakes Valley. There would be no savings here, as the budgets are about what Chicago State currently has, and the schools are mostly bigger. But travel would be less.

I think the Chicagoland fits where Chicago State actually is at.

Chicago State would not be the first to go from DI to NAIA and I agree that is where they should be. I doubt the Great Lakes Valley would be interested in adding Chicago State. They would prefer a football school. CSU would also have to add the GLVC required sports of men's soccer and softball.

Chicago State was a member of NAIA Chicagoland Collegiate Athletic Conference until 1980....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicagolan...er_members


The Midwest Conference is the closest NCAA Division III conference to Chicago State...

Not sure which NCAA Divison II athletic conference that Chicago State was a part of before joining NCAA Division I...but would Chicago State be a potential replacement for Bellarmine in the NCAA D2 GLVC when it leaves for the NCAA D1 ASun Conference in 2020???...Bellarmine is a non-football member of D2 GLVC...

Chicago State has to deal with larger schools already in NCAA D1 WAC...but like what was already previously stated there would be less travel...CSU would be in a more regionally appropriate conference in D2 GLVC than D1 WAC...

(08-04-2019 07:27 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 01:44 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 12:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 02:33 AM)AZcats Wrote:  Chicagoland Conference is a NAIA conference.

Indeed. But the schools in it have very similar profiles to Chicago State and are within bus distance. They also have budgets Chicago State can afford.

At the moment, Z Scott has to write a check for $4M from the school to keep athletics going, and it brings in only about $5-7,000 in gate a year and no donations (excepting one very large $96,0000 donation 18 months ago, there was literally $0 donated since 2013 -- the AD was fired in large part because he did no fund raising). In addition $1M is diverted from student fees (which are 95% from the State of Illinois given most students are on aid) to keep the department open.

In short $4,000 a full time student (only 1,297 according to US Department of Education) is diverted to Athletics. Z Scott is not doubt looking at the buildings they cannot use because they were declared unsafe for human occupation, and the boiler explosions, and other deferred maintenance disasters, and thinking that $5M a year could go a long way to fixing the campus, or at least making it safe.

The closest NCAA D-II conference is the Great Lakes Valley. There would be no savings here, as the budgets are about what Chicago State currently has, and the schools are mostly bigger. But travel would be less.

I think the Chicagoland fits where Chicago State actually is at.

Chicago State would not be the first to go from DI to NAIA and I agree that is where they should be. I doubt the Great Lakes Valley would be interested in adding Chicago State. They would prefer a football school. CSU would also have to add the GLVC required sports of men's soccer and softball.

Chicago State was a member of NAIA Chicagoland Collegiate Athletic Conference until 1980....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicagolan...er_members


The Midwest Conference is the closest NCAA Division III conference to Chicago State...

Not sure which NCAA Divison II athletic conference that Chicago State was a part of before joining NCAA Division I...but would Chicago State be a potential replacement for Bellarmine in the NCAA D2 GLVC when it leaves for the NCAA D1 ASun Conference in 2020???...Bellarmine is a non-football member of D2 GLVC...

Chicago State has to deal with larger schools already in NCAA D1 WAC...but like what was already previously stated there would be less travel...CSU would be in a more regionally appropriate conference in D2 GLVC than D1 WAC...

Chicago State was never in D2; going straight from NAIA to DI in 1984. The GLVC likes having 16 members so yes there will be an opening. The issue is Chicago State not having all 7 GLVC required sports. Due to the difficulties of filling football schedules in D2 the football schools will likely push hard for a football school to replace Bellarmine. The conference's last 6 additions (including the almost addition of Benedictine) have all been football schools.

(08-04-2019 06:15 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 02:38 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

(08-03-2019 08:36 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  It will be interesting what come of the audit...

I think the audit may occur before they hire an AD, cause then they will hire an AD based on the results of the audit.

I think that is an accurate statement. Assuming there is actually an audit, we do not know what the purpose of the audit is. Stu's view that this is the "End of the road for Chicago State D-I athletics" is as usual, overstating the issue.

The issues that will need to be answered in an audit are:

1. What is working?
2. What is not working?
3. What Improvements need to be put in place?
4. What will it cost?
5. What are the alternatives?

This is not complicated. According to their 2017-2018 budget report, Chicago State had a graduation with their student-athletes of 72% and 13 of the 14 sport programs had an Academic Progress Rate above 964 (NCAA minimum is 930). So that seems to be working. Chicago State had 170 student-athletes on their sports teams in 2018-2019.

The revenue from the guarantee or money games helps their athletic department. In 2017-2018, the department reported a profit in men's basketball of $273,000. The 7,000 seat events center is paid for, thanks to the state of Illinois. What is not working is they are not winning and they are barely competitive. Their net ranking of 353 in men's basketball last season was dead last in the country.

The basketball head coaching hires for men's and women's basketball were good and are the kind of improvements that were needed. They are going to need to increase their athletic budget from the 2017-2018 total of $6.2 million by at least a million dollars, with at least half of that going to men's and woman's basketball. That increase those not need to happen in one year, but should happen over a three year period.

Dropping down to D2 does not save any money. Dropping athletics saves $6.2 million. But the school also loses 170 student-athletes. In a school that needs students, losing 170 students that are graduating at a much higher rate than the rest of the student body does not make sense. They have the $38 million events center built in 2007 and their $2.5 million baseball stadium built in 2013. Those are recent investments in athletics that just say, "We are a D1 school."

You as usual think the money will keep rolling in, and in fact increase. But it wont.

You said the fired AD who raised no money would fix things. You say the auditor will say stay in D1, even after looking at the condition of the facilities (which you yourself admit need at least $1.5M invested in that doesn't exist), all to support a fan base that appears to number about 50 individuals (based on gates of $4-5,000 at $10 a general admission ticket -- half of those are family members friends of the players, rather than CSU fans). You also have been saying the enrollment decline of 5-15% each year was merely the result of money problems and that when the state started restoring money that would turn around. But $38M came in and the support is stable, but enrollment has dropped another 10%, as outgoing students continue to out number incoming and fewer classes are this offered.

I agree shutting down athletics is dangerous because 78 men and 73 women (151 total) are enrolled as full time students as a result of athletics. And the school is perilously close to the key 1,000 threshold with only 1,297 students last DoE report. But staying at D1 and suddenly winning wont change things. This is a school with only 409 male students, which gives you an extremely limited pool future alumni to draw from. There is no interest in the Southside for CSU sports, never has been. HS Sports are lively, but Chicago State is like Cal State East Bay, the last resort school you attend as a JuCo transfer because nowhere else in 1 hour commute would take you.

NAIA is where Chicago State belongs. They can keep the athletes, and thus the numbers enrolled, but the costs are inline with what the school can afford, or about $1300 a student, which would be 2/3rds from the fees, and not $4,000 per student where 80% is coming from Z Scott's check writing at the cost of 25 full time faculty salaries, or all the deferred maintenance (more likely some combination of things).

As for the JCC, yes it's paid for, but the maintenance and operating costs are so great that it is shut down most of the time. It is a great facility for a school with the fan base the size of DePaul, but for Chicago State it is an expensive cavern, an energy pig, with no revenue to pay for it's opening. A much smarter move would be to turn it over to the City to operate and play at a smaller facility that has a capacity of 800 or 1000. They can still rent the JCC for invocations, probably for nothing. The only time the JCC is ever full of people are invocations or the City High School Tournament. It expensive to heat a large barn like that in January in Chicago.

Chicago State is toast. Its just a matter of time. NMSU needs to get out of this sinking ship.

(08-05-2019 07:13 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Chicago State is toast. Its just a matter of time. NMSU needs to get out of this sinking ship.

And go where? If there is a better realistic option, why aren't the Aggies already there? Other then the MVC, the WAC was rated higher (after the 18-19 season) by most metrics than the other remotely possible but currently unlikely options (Horizon -which looks to be bent on being more regional, Summit, Big Sky). The PAC12, BWC, MWC, and WCC are all more regional but aren't looking to invite anyone. The B12 is a non starter. In terms of conference ranking (and thus NCAA seeding) the WAC would improve without CSU. A motivated and decently funded D2 move up will likely improve and contribute more quickly and consistently than CSU. Losing CSU and UMKC helps the WAC become more regional. The long term outlook is for the WAC to become stronger by shedding outliers who haven't contributed much. Dixie is a hungry and highly motivated school which will pay dividends soon and there are a few others worth waiting for in the region. The recent FBS conference championship game rules and the playoff payout limits make G5 conference expansion unlikely. NMSU has done a pretty good job of blooming where it is planted. It has advantages in FBS independence that UI didn't have, e.g. two regional FBS rivals willing to schedule the Aggies every year (in competitive games), more independent programs available to schedule (UConn), legitimate D1 facilities to attract home games, and a nearby G5 conference which appears eager to schedule the Aggies OOC. I truly hope NMSU finds it way into the MWC. It would help the BB rankings and NMSU has more upside in FB than SJSU. It just isn't going to happen soon.

(08-06-2019 10:51 AM)Bronco85 Wrote:  

(08-05-2019 07:13 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Chicago State is toast. Its just a matter of time. NMSU needs to get out of this sinking ship.

And go where? If there is a better realistic option, why aren't the Aggies already there? Other then the MVC, the WAC was rated higher (after the 18-19 season) by most metrics than the other remotely possible but currently unlikely options (Horizon -which looks to be bent on being more regional, Summit, Big Sky). The PAC12, BWC, MWC, and WCC are all more regional but aren't looking to invite anyone. The B12 is a non starter. In terms of conference ranking (and thus NCAA seeding) the WAC would improve without CSU. A motivated and decently funded D2 move up will likely improve and contribute more quickly and consistently than CSU. Losing CSU and UMKC helps the WAC become more regional. The long term outlook is for the WAC to become stronger by shedding outliers who haven't contributed much. Dixie is a hungry and highly motivated school which will pay dividends soon and there are a few others worth waiting for in the region. The recent FBS conference championship game rules and the playoff payout limits make the likelihood of G5 conference expansion unlikely. NMSU has done a pretty good job of blooming where it is planted. It has advantages in FBS independence that UI didn't have, e.g. two regional FBS rivals willing to schedule the Aggies every year (in competitive games), more independent programs available to schedule (UConn), legitimate D1 facilities to attract home games, and a nearby G5 conference which appears eager to schedule the Aggies OOC. I truly hope NMSU finds it way into the MWC. It would help the BB rankings and NMSU has more upside in FB than SJSU. It just isn't going to happen soon.

Excellent post, 85. I think you are spot on. While we desperately want to be in a FBS conference for all sports, that just isn't an option right now.

Stu - As usual, you are wrong.

1. I never said the money would keep rolling in. But they did get a $2.3 million increase in funding for the 2019 budget from the state.

http://thechicagocitizen.com/news/2019/j...ago-state/

2. I did not say that Zorich would fix things. I did say I thought he was a good hire but would need time. He hired two very good basketball coaches for the school and I liked his enthusiasm. But it did not work out for him, for whatever reason.

3. If you have ever been through an audit, and I have been through dozens of them, an auditor makes recommendations. This guy will probably be more of a consultant. I have no idea what this person has been asked to look at. Yes, I think they will stay D1.

4. I cannot recall saying that the school needed $1.5 million for facilities. How would I know that?

5. I did not say that their problems with enrollment were due to the budget problems in the state of Illinois. I said the budget issues exacerbated the decline in enrollment that Chicago State and may other schools in Illinois were having. I have frequently blamed the mismanagement at Chicago State for their financial and enrollment issues.

6. I have no idea how much the Jones Convocation Center is used, but I think your description of the utilization is probably inaccurate. It is currently used for the following:

CSU Commencement Ceremony
CSU Basketball Games
CPS Basketball Tournaments
CPS Graduations
Concerts
Theatrical Productions
Government Job Fairs
Family Shows

Since they own it and are not making any debt payments on it, it would only make sense to keep it. Giving it away to the city of Chicago would seem like a really bad idea.

The new Chicago mayor, Lori Lightfoot, has called Chicago State President, Zaldwaynaka 'Z' Scott, a personal friend and mentor. They were both federal prosecutors in the Northern District of Illinois. Lightfoot has said that Chicago State University will be a part of her economic development plan for the city of Chicago. Some things are just beginning:

https://www.csu.edu/news/new_station_south_side.htm

“We are excited to be working with Chicago State officials to create a much-improved station that will serve as a welcoming gateway to the university as well as to the Metra system,” said Metra CEO/Executive Director Jim Derwinski.

“I commend Metra and Chicago State University for joining forces to revitalize this stop. This effort is an example of the cooperative partnerships needed to revitalize, grow and develop the south land, which includes providing stability for Chicago State University,” State Senator Elgie R. Sims Jr. (D-Chicago) said.

“We are excited about our partnership with Metra and their engagement to support the revitalization of transit on our campus and the South Side,” said President Zaldwaynaka Scott.

Anyway, you are hoping that Chicago State is dropping down from D1 based on an audit reported in the Chicago Crusader, an audit that CSU has not confirmed and for a purpose that none of us are aware of. I said last year that it was going to take 3-5 years to see if the new administration could turn the school around. I will stand by that statement.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co...story.html

it looks worse than I thought it could ever get...