This leaves the Summit with only 6 baseball members, which is the minimum for an autobid. They should try and reach out to Northern Colorado, which currently plays baseball and swimming in the WAC to move those programs over.

I also wouldn't be surprised if WIU begins to shop themselves around.

(08-05-2019 05:33 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(08-05-2019 05:05 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  David called it in 2012

Remember when the Mayans predicted the world would end in 2012? What they were really saying was the next Nostradamus Nostradavid would be born.

(08-05-2019 05:58 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  This leaves the Summit with only 6 baseball members, which is the minimum for an autobid. They should try and reach out to Northern Colorado, which currently plays baseball and swimming in the WAC to move those programs over.

I also wouldn't be surprised if WIU begins to shop themselves around.

It looks like they have 6 now, and losing Fort Wayne would put them down to 5 (NDSU, Omaha, ORU, SDSU, WIU). Perhaps new member UMKC will be adding the sport? Not that the Summit is going to necessarily invite Augustana, but they do have baseball. Alternately, maybe the MVC would let the Summit borrow Dallas Baptist.

Summit Baseball will be down to 5. They will get a two year waiver in 2020-21 and 2021-22 to get back in compliance.

One of Five things will happen in 2022-23

1) the NCAA gives them a 2nd waiver (most likely)
2) The find an affiliate to play baseball -- even paying them $100K (NoCo is the obvious target)
3) one of their current members helps out, adds baseball (tSL could offer 5 years $100K additional distribution for a start up)
4) they entice another school such as SEMO or SIUE to join (SIUE is unhappy in OVC, good target)
5) the sponsor Football (finding a 6th school such as Dixie State or Youngstown State ... or SEMO)
note 5b) they can work a deal to partner with NCHC Men's Hockey as "Summit League"

Probably they just get a waiver extension.

Hum, 11 seems a strange number for the Horizon, especially not being a heavier hitter like GCU. Accepting a no consequence school like Ft. Wayne is essentially throwing in the towel, admitting they are a one bid league. I guess 20 game schedule it is.

The Horizon should be set long term. No obvious upgrades for the A10 or MVC. Tight geography and all but 1 is public school

(08-05-2019 06:46 PM)solohawks Wrote:  The Horizon should be set long term. No obvious upgrades for the A10 or MVC. Tight geography and all but 1 is public school

Detroit Mercy to the MVC along with Murray State.

A SECOND realignment move this summer that makes sense? Unreal.

(08-05-2019 07:21 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  A SECOND realignment move this summer that makes sense? Unreal.

I'd say there were at least three: UConn, UMKC, and Fort Wayne.

(08-05-2019 06:37 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Hum, 11 seems a strange number for the Horizon, especially not being a heavier hitter like GCU. Accepting a no consequence school like Ft. Wayne is essentially throwing in the towel, admitting they are a one bid league. I guess 20 game schedule it is.

1) How is a team that has never been to the NCAA a "Heavy Hitter"?
2) The Horizon is trying to consolidate it's footprint. Having 11 schools send all their teams to Phoenix is expensive.

(08-05-2019 06:50 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(08-05-2019 06:46 PM)solohawks Wrote:  The Horizon should be set long term. No obvious upgrades for the A10 or MVC. Tight geography and all but 1 is public school

Detroit Mercy to the MVC along with Murray State.

If MVC was dedicated to the public private split then yes. I actually suggested that awhile back but MVC fans said no way.

Wasn’t PUFW to the Horizon the First Horseman of the Great Northern Apocalypse?

All kidding aside, going after UNC (not the one in Chapel Hill) makes a lot of sense for the Summit right now. They have baseball and football. The Summit can pull what the CAA did with A-10 football and bring it in house and simultaneously save the autobid.

I would say this is win-win. Ft. Wayne gets into the conference they want. The Summit becomes more compact. This is a move that makes sense.

It makes sense for Fort Wayne. But man, is this ever uninspiring from the POV as a fan of one of the Horizon's better schools (NKU).

To think a few years back, we were talking about the Horizon inviting the likes of Murray State and Belmont, or GCU and NMSU.

Instead, the Horizon has settled for the 2 Indiana alphabet soup schools (yeah, yeah, I know they're now Fort Wayne instead of IPFW).

The Summit should be perfectly fine:

(1) Invite NoCo baseball, which I'd guess there's a 50%+ chance that they say yes to.
(2) Also invite them for all other sports, although they likely say no to that.
(3) But that's fine, then invite Augustana (or find a way to work w/ the NCAA to get St Thomas in).
(4) Either way, that's likely 6 for baseball and a fairly stable 10 overall.

I don't see WIU moving: they value football and that will be better in the MVFC vs. the OVC.

(08-05-2019 05:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Would Horizon add D2 Wayne State, Mich. as another member? Wayne State could play in MVFC. They are an R1 research school by Carnegie.

I received my Masters from Wayne State - so I'm familiar with them.

I'd be shocked if they move from D2. They seem content there. The school has decent academic chops and most Detroit-ers know that. But D1 athletics would cost significantly more $$$ and likely not gain them further publicity in the Detroit market.

EMU is already there as a D-1 school that gets ZERO attention in the Detroit market. That's the "canary in the coal mine" as regards Wayne State and a potential move-up.

I mentioned NoCo in a previous post and I can say this as I now live in Denver. They have been utterly irrelevant since their D2 move-up. A legitimately good D2 football school that is now a complete non-entity at the FCS level. They simply don't exist in the minds of the Denver media. They rank behind the 5 pro sports teams, the lacrosse team, the rodeo in town every January, and all of CU, CSU, Wyoming, AFA, DU hockey, KU hoops and UNL football in the minds of locals.

NoCo is the "2nd canary in the coal mine" as regards WSU and a D-1 move-up.

It's simply HARD to be a lower-tier D1 school in (1) a large DMA that (2) contains many professional pro teams AND (3) contains many other higher-tier D1 schools.

(08-05-2019 09:01 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-05-2019 05:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Would Horizon add D2 Wayne State, Mich. as another member? Wayne State could play in MVFC. They are an R1 research school by Carnegie.

I received my Masters from Wayne State - so I'm familiar with them.

I'd be shocked if they move from D2. They seem content there. The school has decent academic chops and most Detroit-ers know that. But D1 athletics would cost significantly more $$$ and likely not gain them further publicity in the Detroit market.

EMU is already there as a D-1 school that gets ZERO attention in the Detroit market. That's the "canary in the coal mine" as regards Wayne State and a potential move-up.

I mentioned NoCo in a previous post and I can say this as I now live in Denver. They have been utterly irrelevant since their D2 move-up. A legitimately good D2 football school that is now a complete non-entity at the FCS level. They simply don't exist in the minds of the Denver media. They rank behind the 5 pro sports teams, the lacrosse team, the rodeo in town every January, and all of CU, CSU, Wyoming, AFA, DU hockey, KU hoops and UNL football in the minds of locals.

NoCo is the "2nd canary in the coal mine" as regards WSU and a D-1 move-up.

It's simply HARD to be a lower-tier D1 school in (1) a large DMA that (2) contains many professional pro teams AND (3) contains many other higher-tier D1 schools.

There are other D2 move ups that have done well like Boise State, Jacksonville State, Troy, North Dakota State, UNLV, UNR, South Dakota State, Northern Kentucky, Belmont, Delaware, Youngstown State, Eastern Washington, UCA, UC-Davis and so forth. Wayne State do have the money to recruit better than Eastern Michigan. There is like a very few like Omaha not doing well. UNC did made it to the FCS playoffs and the 68 team field for men's basketball.

(08-05-2019 09:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-05-2019 09:01 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-05-2019 05:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Would Horizon add D2 Wayne State, Mich. as another member? Wayne State could play in MVFC. They are an R1 research school by Carnegie.

I received my Masters from Wayne State - so I'm familiar with them.

I'd be shocked if they move from D2. They seem content there. The school has decent academic chops and most Detroit-ers know that. But D1 athletics would cost significantly more $$$ and likely not gain them further publicity in the Detroit market.

EMU is already there as a D-1 school that gets ZERO attention in the Detroit market. That's the "canary in the coal mine" as regards Wayne State and a potential move-up.

I mentioned NoCo in a previous post and I can say this as I now live in Denver. They have been utterly irrelevant since their D2 move-up. A legitimately good D2 football school that is now a complete non-entity at the FCS level. They simply don't exist in the minds of the Denver media. They rank behind the 5 pro sports teams, the lacrosse team, the rodeo in town every January, and all of CU, CSU, Wyoming, AFA, DU hockey, KU hoops and UNL football in the minds of locals.

NoCo is the "2nd canary in the coal mine" as regards WSU and a D-1 move-up.

It's simply HARD to be a lower-tier D1 school in (1) a large DMA that (2) contains many professional pro teams AND (3) contains many other higher-tier D1 schools.

There are other D2 move ups that have done well like Boise State, Jacksonville State, Troy, North Dakota State, UNLV, UNR, South Dakota State, Northern Kentucky, Belmont, Delaware, Youngstown State, Eastern Washington, UCA, UC-Davis and so forth. Wayne State do have the money to recruit better than Eastern Michigan. There is like a very few like Omaha not doing well. UNC did made it to the FCS playoffs and the 68 team field for men's basketball.

You really don't comprehend very well, do you/

Of the schools you listed, only ONE has a pro team in the same town (Belmont, although you could argue NKU as well).

Other than those two, none are in big metro areas.

And what PROOF do you have that Wayne State could raise more money for athletics than EMU?

(08-05-2019 09:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  There are other D2 move ups that have done well like Boise State, Jacksonville State, Troy, North Dakota State, UNLV, UNR, South Dakota State, Northern Kentucky, Belmont, Delaware, Youngstown State, Eastern Washington, UCA, UC-Davis and so forth. Wayne State do have the money to recruit better than Eastern Michigan. There is like a very few like Omaha not doing well. UNC did made it to the FCS playoffs and the 68 team field for men's basketball.

When was Northern Colorado ever in the FCS playoffs?

They've had 2 winning seasons in the last 15 years. Those seasons topping out at 6-5!

A number of the schools you listed HAVE done well. They also operate in different structural environments than Wayne State:

(1) Boise, NDSU, SDSU, Nevada, UNLV: smaller DMAs with no direct professional sports nor NCAA competition. These schools are simply THE biggest game in town. (not entirely sure UNLV belongs here given they went D-1 in the mid-70s, but if they're on your list I'll group them here)

(2) JSU, Troy, EWU, UCA: smaller DMAs with no direct professional sports competition but higher-tier NCAA schools to deal with. But there's still enough oxygen that they can find a niche.

(3) Belmont, NKU: successful at D-1 for sure, and in markets with professional and collegiate competition. But they are also highly unlike Wayne in one very big way. They're able to pour ALL their resources into basketball. Wayne does/will not have that luxury.

(4) Delaware: Surrounded by lots of professional teams and high-tier NCAA schools, but also has something VERY unique about them. They're the only team that represents the state of Delaware in any way! They will garner fairly significant organic support simply because of that.

(5) UC-Davis: They're also unique - in very good ways. Always desirable AAU-level academics. 20th biggest DMA in the country, but only the Sacramento Kings and Sacramento State as direct competition. Honestly, if the institutional desire was there, these guys could probably succeed at the FBS level (MWC as their possible conference). They need a significantly better football stadium first but their situation isn't entirely unlike 1990s era UCF either.

(6) Youngstown State: Also unique and in a way that provides structural advantages (although these structural advantages are fading). Right by the border of what was, for the longest time, 2 of the 3 biggest states in terms of High School football (OH, PA). Youngstown is a separate DMA from Cleveland and Pittsburgh (and Canton-Akron for that matter too) and the residents had inherent pride in being different from those 2. Given Youngstown had nothing else sports-wise, that pride naturally manifested in high support for YSU football. For all this, note that YSU has never been any good at anything outside of football.

I've typed a whole ton there. But notice this: neither Wayne State nor NoCo fits into ANY of those 6 categories. You simply can't compare their situation to all those school you listed. They operate in different environments.

(08-05-2019 10:07 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  You really don't comprehend very well, do you/

Of the schools you listed, only ONE has a pro team in the same town (Belmont, although you could argue NKU as well).

Other than those two, none are in big metro areas.

And what PROOF do you have that Wayne State could raise more money for athletics than EMU?

History books because they used to play current D1 schools and were in the MAC. That's all the proof David needs to believe they can make it.

Bellermine would probably be interested.