http://www.reflector.com/News/2019/08/02...nning.html

A report completed by outside firm Cherry Bekaert on the school's budgeting and financial practices projected the athletics department's operating deficit could grow as high as $7.9 million in 2020 and may still stand at $4.6 million by 2022.

The much bigger negative number is the report's projected combined operating and non-operating deficit for ECU athletics, which totals $42.6 million by 2022. Non-operating expenditures include capital investments, discretionary costs, football transition, consulting and one-time costs that do not require permanent funding.

Its tough to keep up without P5 TV money which is what they are trying to do

Low academic standards and huge investments into athletics and they still suck.

If I may give a take from an ECU fan since this is another direct ECU conversation.

It's no secret we had terrible leadership, the good news is the people that got us in this shape all are gone. We have a new chancellor, AD, new coaches in both football and basketball that are proven winners. Win in football and the financials gets fixed pretty quickly. I think with the new coach there is good chance that happens. He's 80-25 and has been to 3 national title games in 8 years as a head coach.

The AAC just signed a more lucrative TV deal that will pay us 5 million more a year than we had as well that will help. All this spending is what got us into the AAC against all odds (no market) and that's the place to be if you aren't in a P5 conference, pretty much achieved the goal that was set out before the building boom. If we had these problems and were stuck in CUSA then it would be worse. Ultimately what are they going to do repo the 200+ million in facilities we built the last decade or kick us out of the AAC if we have to cut back some now. Don't think so and if we just don't suck in football like we have recently and this sorts itself out IMO.

I feel like ECU will probably rebound. But, just like other programs, the administration can be their worst enemy. If they had not panicked and choked Ruffin McNeil out, they more than likely would not have pissed off so many boosters. And, being from the outside looking in, I don't claim to know how much damage that entails. But it seems to have caused a bit anyways. McNeil seemed to have the energy going and football going in the right direction. Hiring Montgomery turned out to be the equivalent of a death wish.

There were polls after Ruff was fired and 25% of the fan base supported it. I haven't been to a football game since. I think a lot of people like me just washed their hands of it until the ad was gone. I didnt even watch games or post for two years that how done I was with it and I think there was a lot of similar fans in protest.

I see this as a cautionary tale for foootball. UNCW is better off not going down that road and this is just more evidence to support that opinion. It's a high cost venture that has really tilted the revenue stream toward the P5 schools. Everyone else is floundering to make it work.

I think it's more of a cautionary tale about don't hire a moron as your AD who does dumb things like fire a winning coach who wanted to retire here when he has the unfortunate injury luck to have to play a 3rd string QB one year (and we were still competitive). Also don't give Lebo an 8 year contract at a million a year after a 215 RPI years. These are just obvious moronic moves that got us here that didn't have much support even then.

It's not like you can't do big things in the AAC in football, just look at UCF. Also without football we never get to play basketball with schools like we have. We've not capitalized on it yet but there is major upside. The AAC was better than the Pac 12 last year and Memphis has the #1 recruiting class. It's a major basketball conference. If running up some debit a few down years and dialing it back a few more is the is the cost to get us there I think it's worth it.

(08-04-2019 10:52 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  I think it's more of a cautionary tale about don't hire a moron as your AD who does dumb things like fire a winning coach who wanted to retire here when he has the unfortunate injury luck to have to play a 3rd string QB one year (and we were still competitive). Also don't give Lebo an 8 year contract at a million a year after a 215 RPI years. These are just obvious moronic moves that got us here that didn't have much support even then.

It's not like you can't do big things in the AAC in football, just look at UCF. Also without football we never get to play basketball with schools like we have. We've not capitalized on it yet but there is major upside. The AAC was better than the Pac 12 last year and Memphis has the #1 recruiting class. It's a major basketball conference. If running up some debit a few down years and dialing it back a few more is the is the cost to get us there I think it's worth it.

I’m probably going to take some heat for this, but I agree with Jonesing here. I know there’s a few of you who are sticklers that UNCW should never bring on football. Whatevs. That is really here not there in terms of ruining programs and fan bases. It doesn’t take a genius to recall how our AD was mismanaged and destroyed without football. I’m a believer that any school can thrive or dive depending on the management. The belief that ecu is in the position they are in because they have a football team seems ridiculous to me.


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ECU has a good football program, a great baseball program, good swimming programs, and not much else to write home about. To have a $40,000,000 athletic department debt is the result of serious miscalculation over a long period of time. It can't be due to one AD or Chancellor, especially a Chancellor who was only there 3 years. The Chancellor didn't evacuate the football team from Greenville to Florida so they missed a game against Virginia Tech. That will cost ECU plenty over the next few years because VPI canceled the games in Greenville.

I went to the WVU @ ECU game in September 2006. The stadium sat 50,000 people. It needed minor updates, but didn't need any updates to be better than Connecticut's or Navy's.

ECU needs to replace those VPI games with games against ASU, Coastal Carolina, Old Dominion, and UNCC to try to get some fannies in the seats. They should schedule every in-state basketball opponent they can find.

If you haven't got football, I don't think you should add it now. Football is going to be important for a while but IMO the seeds are sewn and I think over the next few decades it's trajectory of the sport on the decline.

It may take 40 years but with all the CTE revelations to come out. I think it's going to eventually become regulated to more to the most desperate or least informed in society looking for a way out.

You look at people not letting their kids play today and eventually I think that will have a trickled down effect to the viewership as they don't have the same connections to it or even actively disengage with a sport on principal learning how it robs people of their minds or leaves them crippled mentally or physically.

I know over the last few years I have a harder time supporting it from that standpoint. Our administration made the right call decades ago to focus on football with what they knew at the time but personally my wish would be for someone at ECU to have some long term vision and start pushing basketball more now it's the game with more of a certain future IMO.

(08-04-2019 08:38 PM)geezerhawkdad Wrote:  I went to the WVU @ ECU game in September 2006. The stadium sat 50,000 people. It needed minor updates, but didn't need any updates to be better than Connecticut's or Navy's.

Come on now, we got a lot nicer stadium and bigger fanbase than just the UCONN's and Navy's. They are building this 67 million dollar football building/pressbox-suites as we speak.



You walk into the stadium on some gamedays and you could easily confuse it for a mid level P5 or even years when we've outdrawn many of them.

I could be completely wrong about football longterm who knows but I'd personally have liked to see the money go elsewhere and less extravagant but clearly the powers that be are all in on the football train and these checks cashed. That's what's crazy as we are in all this reported financial trouble the paint is not even dry on this latest expansion which is the biggest of them all.

(08-04-2019 08:51 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  You look at people not letting their kids play today and eventually I think that will have a trickled down effect to the viewership as they don't have the same connections to it or even actively disengage with a sport on principal learning how it robs people of their minds or leaves them crippled mentally or physically.

^^This^^

The CTE thing is very, very real.

(08-04-2019 09:04 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 08:38 PM)geezerhawkdad Wrote:  I went to the WVU @ ECU game in September 2006. The stadium sat 50,000 people. It needed minor updates, but didn't need any updates to be better than Connecticut's or Navy's.

Come on now, we got a lot nicer stadium and bigger fanbase than just the UCONN's and Navy's. They are building this 67 million dollar football building/pressbox-suites as we speak.



You walk into the stadium on some gamedays and you could easily confuse it for a mid level P5 or even years when we've outdrawn many of them.

I could be completely wrong about football longterm who knows but I'd personally have liked to see the money go elsewhere and less extravagant but clearly the powers that be are all in on the football train and these checks cashed. That's what's crazy as we are in all this reported financial trouble the paint is not even dry on this latest expansion which is the biggest of them all.

I think his point was that the stadium was already superior to Navy and UConn without any updates. And, I agee that the long term trajectory for football is trending down.

(08-04-2019 09:56 PM)70shawk Wrote:  ^^This^^

The CTE thing is very, very real.

Probably my # 1 reason, even ahead of cost, for not starting a football program. There will come a time when football as we know it is basically outlawed. Why begin to invest in a sport whose longtime viability is in question?

(08-05-2019 09:05 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 09:56 PM)70shawk Wrote:  ^^This^^

The CTE thing is very, very real.

Probably my # 1 reason, even ahead of cost, for not starting a football program. There will come a time when football as we know it is basically outlawed. Why begin to invest in a sport whose longtime viability is in question?

I think there will always probably be some market for Football like boxing even if it's just the professional level. That said I don't see it as nearly as mainstream or lucrative long term as it has been but I also don't see it as imminent going away. I'm thinking decades but you still need to plan longterm. Football will probably always be more lucrative than basketball just because financially it's a lot easier to shove thousands in a stadium and to be but I do think it will be minimized from what it is today over the long term to where they are closer and it doesn't drive the bus.

You did make me think of something I've never thought of. I would have said football would always be around but I don't know about that in college if you get liberal university professors and administrators behind outlawing it. I think it's highly unlikely but there probably is at least some small chance some universities could drop it all together and it puts a lot of pressure on others but that seems like a long long time away but who knows the world changes pretty fast. I think the money has to take a big hit which I expect because a lot of people will look the other way until it does.

(08-05-2019 09:24 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  You did make me think of something I've never thought of. I would have said football would always be around but I don't know about that in college if you get liberal university professors and administrators behind outlawing it. I think it's highly unlikely but there probably is at least some small chance some universities could drop it all together and it puts a lot of pressure on others but that seems like a long long time away but who knows the world changes pretty fast. I think the money has to take a big hit which I expect because a lot of people will look the other way until it does.

I'm not saying football will disappear. Just that football as we know it will. I.E. there will be an increase in rule changes put in place that make major changes to how the game is played.

Beyond that, the youth levels are a big concern. Suburban moms are increasingly stopping their kids from playing the game, which will start to be a drain on the talent pool. If public High Schools start to ban the game from being played (not that far-fetched, given that kids have died on the field in recent years), you might as well close up shop entirely.

I don't even think you can make the game safe when whatever high percentage of high school players also show signs of CTE. That's the problem. If you are getting it at that level there is little chance you don't get it at the college level no mater what rules you put in place it seems to me. There are some idiots on our board even complaining about rules at the high school level making the game worse I got into it with. Those people exist for sure.

I expect there will still always be some inner city and rural communities that either deny the science as they do other science and with as their whole culture city built around football Fridays don't want to lose it or either choose to take the calculated risk to use it as a economic way out. I do think those will still exist and be what drives football years out but even they are lessened I think over time. I obviously used to like football but it's a hard business to support putting teenagers in danger. Someone will always justify it though or be willing.

If an adult wants to do it and makes the choice, that's one thing but many of these guys get pushed into it in high school. I know my friend was in high school just because of his size. He never wanted to play but he was Oline sized and got talked into it. Your manhood is kind of challenged in some communities if you don't just from what I've seen. He ended up breaking his ankle and having pins put in and gaining about 50 more pounds from not being able to move. There is a darker side of the sport and culture I've come more around too.

(08-05-2019 09:58 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  I expect there will still always be some inner city and rural communities that either deny the science as they do other science and with as their whole culture city built around football Fridays don't want to lose it or either choose to take the calculated risk to use it as a economic way out. I do think those will still exist and be what drives football years out but even they are lessened I think over time. I obviously used to like football but it's a hard business to support putting teenagers in danger. Someone will always justify it though or be willing.

Yes but as was stated by the NFL's Chief Medical Officer/Surgeon, if just 10 % of Moms tell their kids they aren't playing football, its game over. That's all it takes to drain the talent pool and/or change the demographic of the game to where it can't exist as we know it.

(08-05-2019 10:05 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(08-05-2019 09:58 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  I expect there will still always be some inner city and rural communities that either deny the science as they do other science and with as their whole culture city built around football Fridays don't want to lose it or either choose to take the calculated risk to use it as a economic way out. I do think those will still exist and be what drives football years out but even they are lessened I think over time. I obviously used to like football but it's a hard business to support putting teenagers in danger. Someone will always justify it though or be willing.

Yes but as was stated by the NFL's Chief Medical Officer/Surgeon, if just 10 % of Moms tell their kids they aren't playing football, its game over. That's all it takes to drain the talent pool and/or change the demographic of the game to where it can't exist as we know it.

We'll that's actually fine with me. Hopefully someone at ECU has some vision to not dump 67 million dollars more into a football stadium again. That said I don't actually have much faith in that happening, I expect well be one of the last ones hanging on to football with the Alabama's of the world regardless if basketball took off but I'm fully behind getting more behind basketball long term anyway.

In our fanbase their is a cross over with many liking basketball in general. We just have to steal away the ECU football/tarheel cross over fans and I dont' think that's impossible if we gave them a respectable team or regardless of what's going on with football. That's one thing football has built up is a pride in the school that I think can be transferred if you give them even a little success.