(08-04-2019 03:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 12:32 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:32 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I don't call people evil and all that you disagrees with me and they call me nasty things on here. I am not the one that will go to that far. There are good people on both sides except for the extreme on both on the left and on the right. I do not call people who are entering this country as murderers or rapists. I just call them good people who crossed the border illegally. As we know from history, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Nevada and California were part of Mexico. We wound dividing native American tribes into 2 countries. Cuba, Puerto Rico and other Caribbean Countries and islands had their Native population wiped out by Disease from the Europeans. Spaniards and Portuguese colonized the islands, Central America, Southwest USA and South America. You can tell the difference with the color of the skin on who are Natives, light color who are European and who are in between who are mixed.

Uhhhhhh, and?

What does that have to do with a shooting in El Paso or Dayton?

Because of who the Mexicans look like. NASCAR driver Daniel Suarez from Mexico looks white and not Latino. The shooter in El Paso is an idiot since Mexico City area where Suarez is from is a colony of Spain. So, there are Mexicans who are full blooded Spaniard descendants.

All this nastiness between 2 parties today started when Bill was in office. People like Russ Lim, Rosie fat cow on the left, Anne Coulture, Alex Jones, Donald Trump and others from both sides are getting people riled up on both sides of the aisle.

No David. It started when groups of people in this country started getting special privileges over the rest and for things that happened 150 years ago. Driving the divide empowered the Democrats. Paying for the special privileges impinged the middle class who was taxed for it. The rest is politics. But it is getting uglier. If we are to have a democracy there can be so special privileges for any citizen that exceeds the rights and privileges of all of the rest. When that happens it's no longer a Democracy functioning as a Republic.

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 08:34 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Devaluation of life. From video games to abortion to violent movies, the youth of this country are growing up desensitized. No God or higher power. God is mocked and man’s the new deity. All of this is not surprising.

The lives of many Americans have been devalued since the founding of this nation. Look no further than the Constitution, which counted slaves as only 3/5's of a human, not fully human. It continues through the history of slavery (trading humans as property), lynchings and KKK night rides, Blacks being spit on for trying to get an equal education, police using hoses and dogs on peaceful protestors. We just heard another recent example with then-Governor, and later President, Ronald Reagan referring to African as monkeys...to the great delight of sitting President Nixon.

Some lives have always been devalued by our society at large. It continues today with shootings (mass or not), physical and sexual abuse of children, our treatment of immigrant children, and much more.

I think in general we are in a better place than we were 50 and 100 and 200 years ago, but we have a President today that is stoking the fires of hatred and division.

Most of your writing is factually wrong and some is just patent lies by those who actually do want to divide this country. Many just because they lost an election and some because they have been misled like yourself.
It does pain me that so much of our nation is politicly and historically ignorant. Not that you, if you are young, have been educated but if you are over 40 there has been plenty of time for you to educate yourself.

(08-04-2019 03:21 PM)IAH Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 12:10 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:04 AM)IAH Wrote:  The reason for this mass shootings is clearly a combination of factors. And to say that gun laws couldn’t be improved, not even a little, to help avoid some of these tragedies is non sense.

I am not saying it has do me something drastic, but I am sure something can be done.

Such as?

And if so, why hasn’t it been done already with the ~20,000 various gun laws we have now?

Honest ?, I have two kids in college that are currently home.

We had a 2 hour drive to the airport a couple weeks ago and for some reason (forgotten now) this topic came up.

Both of them said much the same thing, “ we’ve got to do SOMETHING!”. I said fine. But what?

It was all gun licensing, gun registration, gun ownership restriction etc. I asked how many criminals are going to follow those laws all of the sudden?

Not much in response cause there is none.

Any restriction, additional burocracy, license, etc could help. The same way a well lit house, or a house with an alarm sign in the front yard helps to stop certain types of criminals (of course not all, if someone is determined to break into your house they will probably find a way). But I would assume same would apply to these shootings.

Say that a license requires some courses, tests etc. Where you add some evaluations where these guys think they could be flagged. Or you make the waiting period for the background check last a few months. Or the first gun you buy is s more basic with a limit in ammunition, and maybe you have to wait a while (say a year) to be allowed to buy as many as you want. Or if you are ubder 25 (I thought if this limit thinking of rental cars) a parent or say a shooting instructor needs to vouch for you.

Look, I just thought of these ideas now, and I am sure you will find issues with them. My point is that any barrier helps.

I’m short on time right now, but very quickly none of those will prevent two types of people from getting guns or using another method of mass killings like driving down a bike path at 70 mph on a Saturday afternoon.

Two types: criminals and those bent on killing people: nuts IOWs.

Who will it affect? Law abiding citizens. Hunh

(08-04-2019 02:31 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 01:53 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Dayton shooter killed his sister.

Read that too.
Guessing he was upset at his sister for something, tracked her down, found her at a bar and took her out as well as others. Sick SOB. Glad he's dead.

The most common threads among these type of shooters is they are loners and they play violent video games.

That does't mean all loners who play video games are going to go postal but they are two characteristics shared by those who have. Violent video games can desensitize people to killing because they do it all the time in their cyber lives.

It may explain why mass shootings have become common place since the 1990s and really weren't beforehand. People have always had guns. Why wasn't this happening in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, and 80s?

...prior to the 90s there were no realistic-looking violent video games and nuclear families were intact at a higher percentage.

There was also not cable news running 24/7.

Well, now we know that the Dayton shooter was an atheist and devil worshipper. It's funny that he has a sweatshirt that says no gods and then goes around pushing the Black Arts. If there wasn't a God then there shouldn't be a devil either, right?

This is the way I see it. There are those people here that are saying that the el paso shooter may have been right wing, and Christian. My friend, there is no true Christian that would do anything like this. To say that you're Christian is not the qualifying point. We must follow our God and adhere to His teachings and that includes "thou shalt not kill" to be a real Christian or Christ-like.

Those that don't know the Bible and don't really believe it but like to post verses aren't doing anything but go the Satan route, of using it to their advantage.

As to Nomads post of me calling the Democrats, Demoncraps, all one has to do is look at their belief system and what they want our nation to become. That's all that is needed. For instance, Demoncraps like to tell us that guns kill people but all the while killing babies at PP. They try to push the Gay lifestyle even though it's against Gods teachings, and etc. etc. Like I've said before, if it's corrupt, illegal, or immoral Demoncraps are all for it, even those that purport to be Christians.

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:38 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:26 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:23 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:17 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  That is a stunning comment. I don't see how anyone could pretend those are not serious root issues here. Unless they just don't want to for some reason.

The Bible tells us quite clearly these ARE the root problems. So does common sense imo.

Read Romans chapter 2 for starters, these issues ARE at the root.

I’ll read it when I have time. Are you dismissing the notion that it could also be the fact that our behavior on social media and the behavior of the news media could be main factors?

I did not dismiss anything, you are the one who dismissed things. Its not a matter of choosing one or the other, they all play a role.

The rejection of God and worship of self and pleasure seeking combined with a desensitized youth are core issues.

That’s my fault, I shouldn’t have dismissed everything outright. I guess we disagree on the weight each factor holds. I just think it’s that real people dehumanize people and desensitize the youth more than video games and movies.

Its a big mistake to pretend movies, TV and games do not have a big impact on how people think and view the world.

They have massive impacts on everyone.

I too denied those facts for many years, now I see how foolish I was being. Our pride and ego blind us too that truth, and everyone is guilty of it. Me included.

No one can deny the popularity of the internet and video games has degraded our society. Many of these mass murders are people who have withdrawn from society and the normal close human contacts. The results are no one knows just how far off the rails they have gone. No one generally has a clue how dangerous these people are. And no one knows how far they have strayed from reality.

(08-04-2019 03:33 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 03:21 PM)IAH Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 12:10 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:04 AM)IAH Wrote:  The reason for this mass shootings is clearly a combination of factors. And to say that gun laws couldn’t be improved, not even a little, to help avoid some of these tragedies is non sense.

I am not saying it has do me something drastic, but I am sure something can be done.

Such as?

And if so, why hasn’t it been done already with the ~20,000 various gun laws we have now?

Honest ?, I have two kids in college that are currently home.

We had a 2 hour drive to the airport a couple weeks ago and for some reason (forgotten now) this topic came up.

Both of them said much the same thing, “ we’ve got to do SOMETHING!”. I said fine. But what?

It was all gun licensing, gun registration, gun ownership restriction etc. I asked how many criminals are going to follow those laws all of the sudden?

Not much in response cause there is none.

Any restriction, additional burocracy, license, etc could help. The same way a well lit house, or a house with an alarm sign in the front yard helps to stop certain types of criminals (of course not all, if someone is determined to break into your house they will probably find a way). But I would assume same would apply to these shootings.

Say that a license requires some courses, tests etc. Where you add some evaluations where these guys think they could be flagged. Or you make the waiting period for the background check last a few months. Or the first gun you buy is s more basic with a limit in ammunition, and maybe you have to wait a while (say a year) to be allowed to buy as many as you want. Or if you are ubder 25 (I thought if this limit thinking of rental cars) a parent or say a shooting instructor needs to vouch for you.

Look, I just thought of these ideas now, and I am sure you will find issues with them. My point is that any barrier helps.

I’m short on time right now, but very quickly none of those will prevent two types of people from getting guns or using another method of mass killings like driving down a bike path at 70 mph on a Saturday afternoon.

Two types: criminals and those bent on killing people: nuts IOWs.

Who will it affect? Law abiding citizens. Hunh

I don’t think you can just assume it would not stop some of these guys. And of course I agree that it would not stop all of them.

Also you cannot just assume all of these guys would find a different way of killing a bunch of people if they are not able to buy a gun.

I know it would affect law abiding citizens more... but so does say airport security. I mean , how mean law abiding citizens go through security before we catch a nut case.

(08-04-2019 03:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 02:31 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 01:53 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Dayton shooter killed his sister.

Read that too.
Guessing he was upset at his sister for something, tracked her down, found her at a bar and took her out as well as others. Sick SOB. Glad he's dead.

The most common threads among these type of shooters is they are loners and they play violent video games.

That does't mean all loners who play video games are going to go postal but they are two characteristics shared by those who have. Violent video games can desensitize people to killing because they do it all the time in their cyber lives.

It may explain why mass shootings have become common place since the 1990s and really weren't beforehand. People have always had guns. Why wasn't this happening in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, and 80s?

...prior to the 90s there were no realistic-looking violent video games and nuclear families were intact at a higher percentage.

There was also not cable news running 24/7.

Probably has an affect but I don't know how much 16-28 year old men watch cable news.

(08-04-2019 03:38 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:38 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:26 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:23 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I’ll read it when I have time. Are you dismissing the notion that it could also be the fact that our behavior on social media and the behavior of the news media could be main factors?

I did not dismiss anything, you are the one who dismissed things. Its not a matter of choosing one or the other, they all play a role.

The rejection of God and worship of self and pleasure seeking combined with a desensitized youth are core issues.

That’s my fault, I shouldn’t have dismissed everything outright. I guess we disagree on the weight each factor holds. I just think it’s that real people dehumanize people and desensitize the youth more than video games and movies.

Its a big mistake to pretend movies, TV and games do not have a big impact on how people think and view the world.

They have massive impacts on everyone.

I too denied those facts for many years, now I see how foolish I was being. Our pride and ego blind us too that truth, and everyone is guilty of it. Me included.

No one can deny the popularity of the internet and video games has degraded our society. Many of these mass murders are people who have withdrawn from society and the normal close human contacts. The results are no one knows just how far off the rails they have gone. No one generally has a clue how dangerous these people are. And no one knows how far they have strayed from reality.

^This. We will get more of this until we renew the importance of the two parent family, put down the cellphones and reengage with each other, and curtail the violence portrayed in movies and video games.

(08-04-2019 03:44 PM)IAH Wrote:  I don’t think you can just assume it would not stop some of these guys. And of course I agree that it would not stop all of them.

Also you cannot just assume all of these guys would find a different way of killing a bunch of people if they are not able to buy a gun.

I know it would affect law abiding citizens more... but so does say airport security. I mean , how mean law abiding citizens go through security before we catch a nut case.

There is very little reason to think it would deter most of these cases. They are typically very calculated and premeditated, and the perps have thought long and hard about how they are going to do it and why they are doing it. Most of them have manifestos and have been building to their attacks for many months if not years.

Such people are not going to be deterred by background checks or banning AR rifles and its absurd to pretend they will be.

Very very sad. Lived in Dayton for 2+ years and went to the bar right next to where the people were killed, pretty often. Had friends there last night when it all went down. Thank God the police were there, or the numbers would be a lot higher, as it’s a pretty high traffic area on weekends, especially later at night.

(08-04-2019 03:56 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 03:38 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:38 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:26 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I did not dismiss anything, you are the one who dismissed things. Its not a matter of choosing one or the other, they all play a role.

The rejection of God and worship of self and pleasure seeking combined with a desensitized youth are core issues.

That’s my fault, I shouldn’t have dismissed everything outright. I guess we disagree on the weight each factor holds. I just think it’s that real people dehumanize people and desensitize the youth more than video games and movies.

Its a big mistake to pretend movies, TV and games do not have a big impact on how people think and view the world.

They have massive impacts on everyone.

I too denied those facts for many years, now I see how foolish I was being. Our pride and ego blind us too that truth, and everyone is guilty of it. Me included.

No one can deny the popularity of the internet and video games has degraded our society. Many of these mass murders are people who have withdrawn from society and the normal close human contacts. The results are no one knows just how far off the rails they have gone. No one generally has a clue how dangerous these people are. And no one knows how far they have strayed from reality.

^This. We will get more of this until we renew the importance of the two parent family, put down the cellphones and reengage with each other, and curtail the violence portrayed in movies and video games.

Agreed. I often say this very thing to those who stare at their phones non stop 24/7.

(08-04-2019 04:01 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 03:44 PM)IAH Wrote:  I don’t think you can just assume it would not stop some of these guys. And of course I agree that it would not stop all of them.

Also you cannot just assume all of these guys would find a different way of killing a bunch of people if they are not able to buy a gun.

I know it would affect law abiding citizens more... but so does say airport security. I mean , how mean law abiding citizens go through security before we catch a nut case.

There is very little reason to think it would deter most of these cases. They are typically very calculated and premeditated, and the perps have thought long and hard about how they are going to do it and why they are doing it. Most of them have manifestos and have been building to their attacks for many months if not years.

Such people are not going to be deterred by background checks or banning AR rifles and its absurd to pretend they will be.

I don’t think you can put all these guys in the same category. And I don’t think we can assume we know for sure how many of these cases this type of policy would or would not stop. And I am not a expert, I came up with those examples in about 30 seconds.

(08-04-2019 04:09 PM)IAH Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 04:01 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 03:44 PM)IAH Wrote:  I don’t think you can just assume it would not stop some of these guys. And of course I agree that it would not stop all of them.

Also you cannot just assume all of these guys would find a different way of killing a bunch of people if they are not able to buy a gun.

I know it would affect law abiding citizens more... but so does say airport security. I mean , how mean law abiding citizens go through security before we catch a nut case.

There is very little reason to think it would deter most of these cases. They are typically very calculated and premeditated, and the perps have thought long and hard about how they are going to do it and why they are doing it. Most of them have manifestos and have been building to their attacks for many months if not years.

Such people are not going to be deterred by background checks or banning AR rifles and its absurd to pretend they will be.

I don’t think you can put all these guys in the same category. And I don’t think we can assume we know for sure how many of these cases this type of policy would or would not stop. And I am not a expert, I came up with those examples in about 30 seconds.

I think most of these people clearly fit into a similar category. Pointing out a couple of outliers doesn't change that.

The vast majority of these are well planned and predetermined, not sudden out of the blue attacks.

We have major US cities right now with ultra extreme gun laws and they still have some of the highest murder rates in the entire world.

Heavy.com
@HeavySan
· 35m
In his Twitter profile, Connor Betts, the 24-year-old suspected gunman in the Dayton mass shooting, wrote, "he/him / anime fan / metalhead / leftist / i'm going to hell and i'm not coming back." (link: http://bit.ly/2KpcrCL) bit.ly/2KpcrCL

(08-04-2019 03:30 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 08:34 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Devaluation of life. From video games to abortion to violent movies, the youth of this country are growing up desensitized. No God or higher power. God is mocked and man’s the new deity. All of this is not surprising.

The lives of many Americans have been devalued since the founding of this nation. Look no further than the Constitution, which counted slaves as only 3/5's of a human, not fully human. It continues through the history of slavery (trading humans as property), lynchings and KKK night rides, Blacks being spit on for trying to get an equal education, police using hoses and dogs on peaceful protestors. We just heard another recent example with then-Governor, and later President, Ronald Reagan referring to African as monkeys...to the great delight of sitting President Nixon.

Some lives have always been devalued by our society at large. It continues today with shootings (mass or not), physical and sexual abuse of children, our treatment of immigrant children, and much more.

I think in general we are in a better place than we were 50 and 100 and 200 years ago, but we have a President today that is stoking the fires of hatred and division.

Most of your writing is factually wrong and some is just patent lies by those who actually do want to divide this country. Many just because they lost an election and some because they have been misled like yourself.
It does pain me that so much of our nation is politicly and historically ignorant. Not that you, if you are young, have been educated but if you are over 40 there has been plenty of time for you to educate yourself.

Not trying to start a fight, but which part of my post is factually incorrect or a lie? The last paragraph is subjective; definitely my own opinion and understand if you disagree. The first paragraph is all factual and indisputable though. Unless you think the Constitution is "fake news".

I don't see how you can argue that Black lives were valued the same as White lives through most of our nation's history.

This seems to be his account
https://twitter.com/iamthespookster

(08-04-2019 04:54 PM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 03:30 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 08:34 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Devaluation of life. From video games to abortion to violent movies, the youth of this country are growing up desensitized. No God or higher power. God is mocked and man’s the new deity. All of this is not surprising.

The lives of many Americans have been devalued since the founding of this nation. Look no further than the Constitution, which counted slaves as only 3/5's of a human, not fully human. It continues through the history of slavery (trading humans as property), lynchings and KKK night rides, Blacks being spit on for trying to get an equal education, police using hoses and dogs on peaceful protestors. We just heard another recent example with then-Governor, and later President, Ronald Reagan referring to African as monkeys...to the great delight of sitting President Nixon.

Some lives have always been devalued by our society at large. It continues today with shootings (mass or not), physical and sexual abuse of children, our treatment of immigrant children, and much more.

I think in general we are in a better place than we were 50 and 100 and 200 years ago, but we have a President today that is stoking the fires of hatred and division.

Most of your writing is factually wrong and some is just patent lies by those who actually do want to divide this country. Many just because they lost an election and some because they have been misled like yourself.
It does pain me that so much of our nation is politicly and historically ignorant. Not that you, if you are young, have been educated but if you are over 40 there has been plenty of time for you to educate yourself.

Not trying to start a fight, but which part of my post is factually incorrect or a lie? The last paragraph is subjective; definitely my own opinion and understand if you disagree. The first paragraph is all factual and indisputable though. Unless you think the Constitution is "fake news".

I don't see how you can argue that Black lives were valued the same as White lives through most of our nation's history.

The first two are dishonest by failing to include context. How was America worse than other countries?

(08-04-2019 05:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 04:54 PM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 03:30 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 08:34 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Devaluation of life. From video games to abortion to violent movies, the youth of this country are growing up desensitized. No God or higher power. God is mocked and man’s the new deity. All of this is not surprising.

The lives of many Americans have been devalued since the founding of this nation. Look no further than the Constitution, which counted slaves as only 3/5's of a human, not fully human. It continues through the history of slavery (trading humans as property), lynchings and KKK night rides, Blacks being spit on for trying to get an equal education, police using hoses and dogs on peaceful protestors. We just heard another recent example with then-Governor, and later President, Ronald Reagan referring to African as monkeys...to the great delight of sitting President Nixon.

Some lives have always been devalued by our society at large. It continues today with shootings (mass or not), physical and sexual abuse of children, our treatment of immigrant children, and much more.

I think in general we are in a better place than we were 50 and 100 and 200 years ago, but we have a President today that is stoking the fires of hatred and division.

Most of your writing is factually wrong and some is just patent lies by those who actually do want to divide this country. Many just because they lost an election and some because they have been misled like yourself.
It does pain me that so much of our nation is politicly and historically ignorant. Not that you, if you are young, have been educated but if you are over 40 there has been plenty of time for you to educate yourself.

Not trying to start a fight, but which part of my post is factually incorrect or a lie? The last paragraph is subjective; definitely my own opinion and understand if you disagree. The first paragraph is all factual and indisputable though. Unless you think the Constitution is "fake news".

I don't see how you can argue that Black lives were valued the same as White lives through most of our nation's history.

The first two are dishonest by failing to include context. How was America worse than other countries?

Jimmy is a clown. The 3/5 was a compromise to form the country. Slavery was global. Guys like him never talk about the 300,000 dead white Union Soldiers, even the dead Confederates who got drafted. In the North the rich bought their way out of the draft, the poor nada. The KKK routinely murdered white Republicans along with blacks.

Devaluing human life. Social media. The internet as a whole. The political climate created by the left. Lack of respect for others. Splintering family situations. Lack of respect for a higher power. Zero respect for authority.
Just so many contributing factors.
Plus, some people are just simply evil.