(07-30-2019 11:15 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 10:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think UConn move helps the Big East more than it hurts the AAC. I think UConn gets going pretty good. While yes, it hurts the AAC that rebound won't happen for the AAC, given what UConn has been recently(no matter what folks want to say, UConn has been clearly down)- for on the court purposes it won't hurt the AAC much- as long as they replace UConn with someone like a VCU. Now, if they don't replace UConn with VCU- that's where I think it could hurt the AAC quite a bit- but that would be more on the AAC than it would UConn leaving quite frankly.

The proof is going to be in the non-conference metrics; the haul a team brought in that not only propped up the school itself, but those in the conference who played and beat them, too. UConn of last season makes it look like a relief for the AAC, but most of those seasons, they were pulling down a respectable schedule and numbers. The composite sketch of the AAC benefited from UConn being there (most years).

The AAC will be fine in basketball, but it does need its lesser parts in the sport to step up and contribute. Without a replacement, the rest of the conference suffers for the terrible work ECU, Tulane, and USF may perform. And someone like Cincinnati can't be playing nobodies in the non-conference if thinks a strong showing is enough to save them. The selection committee still considers work against other good teams, and I've always taken that meaning "good" equals "other tournament-bound teams." It won't matter if there's a lot of top 100 AAC schools if only one or two of them are in the top 50 or 60. Those outside of that pole may as well be irrelevant.

not really though to your first comment. Last 3 years they were barely over .500 OOC. That hurts your numbers quite a bit.

Also, USF last year was a top 100 NET team, and ECU and Tulane both have good coaches now.

Also Cincy- last year their OOC SOS was 166- but had on it 4 Q1 and 2 opponents- and not really their fault that UCLA was a Q3 game at #120 in the NET.

(07-30-2019 11:37 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Stever, congrats on Georgetown landing 4* ESPN Top-100 PF Terrance Williams last night, who chose the Hoyas over Notre Dame and Michigan. You must be really excited, as it is a fun time to be a Georgetown fan.

Yeah. Ewing has frankly surprised me- thought he'd be very similar to Mullin and that disaster. But he's doing really well.... Definitely better than what JT3 became(he lasted about 5 years longer than his expiration date was).

(07-30-2019 11:15 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 10:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think UConn move helps the Big East more than it hurts the AAC. I think UConn gets going pretty good. While yes, it hurts the AAC that rebound won't happen for the AAC, given what UConn has been recently(no matter what folks want to say, UConn has been clearly down)- for on the court purposes it won't hurt the AAC much- as long as they replace UConn with someone like a VCU. Now, if they don't replace UConn with VCU- that's where I think it could hurt the AAC quite a bit- but that would be more on the AAC than it would UConn leaving quite frankly.

The proof is going to be in the non-conference metrics; the haul a team brought in that not only propped up the school itself, but those in the conference who played and beat them, too. UConn of last season makes it look like a relief for the AAC, but most of those seasons, they were pulling down a respectable schedule and numbers. The composite sketch of the AAC benefited from UConn being there (most years).

The AAC will be fine in basketball, but it does need its lesser parts in the sport to step up and contribute. Without a replacement, the rest of the conference suffers for the terrible work ECU, Tulane, and USF may perform. And someone like Cincinnati can't be playing nobodies in the non-conference if thinks a strong showing is enough to save them. The selection committee still considers work against other good teams, and I've always taken that meaning "good" equals "other tournament-bound teams." It won't matter if there's a lot of top 100 AAC schools if only one or two of them are in the top 50 or 60. Those outside of that pole may as well be irrelevant.

Uh UC is playing Ohio State, Iowa, Tennessee, UNLV and Xavier. We are also playing Vermont, although not a big name from a great conference but will be a Top 100 school. We're aslso playing in the Paradise Jam which will give a couple more opportunities for Top 50-100 type games.

Who does your school play OOC this season?

(07-30-2019 10:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  dude I don't hate the Big East. They're a good conference. I don't think they're on the same level right now as the ACC or Big Ten, and I think going forward with the money, that difference is just going to grow more and more. You can't be brining in only 5-6 million dollars while the Big Ten is bringing in 50 million- and keep up. AAC is in the exact same boat.

Right, but we don't have any football. Most of those millions go to football. 5-6 for just basketball is pretty good. It allows us to keep our budgets in the same range as the P5. We'll see what adding UConn does to those payouts. On top of that the Big East has a lot of natural advantages as far as proximity to recruits and MSG fwiw (and it is worth something). No other conference serves the northeast basketball market to the same extent. The Big East is in pretty good position moving forward

(07-30-2019 12:50 PM)scoscox Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 10:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  dude I don't hate the Big East. They're a good conference. I don't think they're on the same level right now as the ACC or Big Ten, and I think going forward with the money, that difference is just going to grow more and more. You can't be brining in only 5-6 million dollars while the Big Ten is bringing in 50 million- and keep up. AAC is in the exact same boat.

Right, but we don't have any football. Most of those millions go to football. 5-6 for just basketball is pretty good. It allows us to keep our budgets in the same range as the P5. We'll see what adding UConn does to those payouts. On top of that the Big East has a lot of natural advantages as far as proximity to recruits and MSG fwiw (and it is worth something). No other conference serves the northeast basketball market to the same extent. The Big East is in pretty good position moving forward

Even if you do the 80/20 it's still 10 million for the Big Ten for basketball. And there's only so much for football that you can do.

Also, the money advantages we're seeing in the Big Ten especially, but also SEC- have just happened in the last 2-3 years. And when the new TV deals come around, it's just going to get more for the P5.

(07-30-2019 12:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  And there's only so much for football that you can do.

And when the new TV deals come around, it's just going to get more for the P5.

I wouldn't be too sure about either of these.

And I think the Big East is in good position to deal with this going forward. It'll be a challenge, but I think the league has a good chance.

You are more pessimistic and thats expected and fine. I am more optimistic

(07-29-2019 01:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-29-2019 11:53 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(07-29-2019 10:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  what blows me away is that folks here have such a black and white thing that it absolutely hurts the AAC. When a guy like Rob Dauster(who hasn't been all that complimentary of the AAC thru the years) can say that it won't impact much what the AAC has been- his quote- "Losing UConn is a blow for what the American’s ceiling can be. But with UCF, Temple, Tulsa and SMU all having proven capable of playing their way into an at-large bid, the conference will effectively be what it was with UConn there – a safe-bet to get three bids with four programs at the top that are annually in the at-large mix.
It’s not the ACC and it will never be, but it’s not the Mountain West, either."

To me that's absolutely a fair statement. The move has the potential to help the Big East out if UConn can get back to being UConn, but the AAC isn't going to because UConn is gone drop much at all. It's still going to be better than the A10, and MWC, and all the other non p7 conferences. Big East fans want to make it seem like the AAC is going to take a huge drop because of UConn leaving. And that's just not reality.

And of those, only SMU has had more than 1.

No, it won't be a huge drop, but it will be a drop.

Any way you slice it, UConn is a marque program - the best recognized program in the AAC.

who has clearly slipped... And yet the AAC is a clear cut top 7 conference. It has totally passed the A10 and MWC....

And clearly below the P5 + BE

(07-30-2019 01:40 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(07-29-2019 01:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-29-2019 11:53 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(07-29-2019 10:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  what blows me away is that folks here have such a black and white thing that it absolutely hurts the AAC. When a guy like Rob Dauster(who hasn't been all that complimentary of the AAC thru the years) can say that it won't impact much what the AAC has been- his quote- "Losing UConn is a blow for what the American’s ceiling can be. But with UCF, Temple, Tulsa and SMU all having proven capable of playing their way into an at-large bid, the conference will effectively be what it was with UConn there – a safe-bet to get three bids with four programs at the top that are annually in the at-large mix.
It’s not the ACC and it will never be, but it’s not the Mountain West, either."

To me that's absolutely a fair statement. The move has the potential to help the Big East out if UConn can get back to being UConn, but the AAC isn't going to because UConn is gone drop much at all. It's still going to be better than the A10, and MWC, and all the other non p7 conferences. Big East fans want to make it seem like the AAC is going to take a huge drop because of UConn leaving. And that's just not reality.

And of those, only SMU has had more than 1.

No, it won't be a huge drop, but it will be a drop.

Any way you slice it, UConn is a marque program - the best recognized program in the AAC.

who has clearly slipped... And yet the AAC is a clear cut top 7 conference. It has totally passed the A10 and MWC....

And clearly below the P5 + BE

sorry but I wouldn't say the AAC is clearly behind the Pac 12. They were in fact ahead of the Pac 12 last year.

(07-30-2019 12:37 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Uh UC is playing Ohio State, Iowa, Tennessee, UNLV and Xavier...

Yeah, this year.

But the last few?

I hope this is something they will continue to do moving forward. For them, and for the conference.

(07-30-2019 01:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 01:40 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(07-29-2019 01:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-29-2019 11:53 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(07-29-2019 10:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  what blows me away is that folks here have such a black and white thing that it absolutely hurts the AAC. When a guy like Rob Dauster(who hasn't been all that complimentary of the AAC thru the years) can say that it won't impact much what the AAC has been- his quote- "Losing UConn is a blow for what the American’s ceiling can be. But with UCF, Temple, Tulsa and SMU all having proven capable of playing their way into an at-large bid, the conference will effectively be what it was with UConn there – a safe-bet to get three bids with four programs at the top that are annually in the at-large mix.
It’s not the ACC and it will never be, but it’s not the Mountain West, either."

To me that's absolutely a fair statement. The move has the potential to help the Big East out if UConn can get back to being UConn, but the AAC isn't going to because UConn is gone drop much at all. It's still going to be better than the A10, and MWC, and all the other non p7 conferences. Big East fans want to make it seem like the AAC is going to take a huge drop because of UConn leaving. And that's just not reality.

And of those, only SMU has had more than 1.

No, it won't be a huge drop, but it will be a drop.

Any way you slice it, UConn is a marque program - the best recognized program in the AAC.

who has clearly slipped... And yet the AAC is a clear cut top 7 conference. It has totally passed the A10 and MWC....

And clearly below the P5 + BE

sorry but I wouldn't say the AAC is clearly behind the Pac 12. They were in fact ahead of the Pac 12 last year.

For the first time ever. Since it's inception the AAC has been behind the A-10 more times than it's been ahead of any of the P6.

(07-30-2019 01:55 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  For the first time ever. Since it's inception the AAC has been behind the A-10 more times than it's been ahead of any of the P6.

And remember stever, you can't just pretend that those years don't exist as a wise man once said

(07-30-2019 01:55 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 01:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 01:40 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(07-29-2019 01:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-29-2019 11:53 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  And of those, only SMU has had more than 1.

No, it won't be a huge drop, but it will be a drop.

Any way you slice it, UConn is a marque program - the best recognized program in the AAC.

who has clearly slipped... And yet the AAC is a clear cut top 7 conference. It has totally passed the A10 and MWC....

And clearly below the P5 + BE

sorry but I wouldn't say the AAC is clearly behind the Pac 12. They were in fact ahead of the Pac 12 last year.

For the first time ever. Since it's inception the AAC has been behind the A-10 more times than it's been ahead of any of the P6.

at the worst it's 1 each. And trend wise, the A10 has clearly slipped. It's no where close to the A10 of 5 years ago.

And that's where if the AAC were to take VCU- it would permanently make the AAC superior to the A10. Part of the reason why I would do it in a heartbeat if I were the AAC.

(07-30-2019 02:06 PM)scoscox Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 01:55 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  For the first time ever. Since it's inception the AAC has been behind the A-10 more times than it's been ahead of any of the P6.

And remember stever, you can't just pretend that those years don't exist as a wise man once said

It was just 1 year, 2015.

And you can't pretend last year didn't happen either.

(07-30-2019 02:09 PM)stever20 Wrote:  It was just 1 year, 2015.

And you can't pretend last year didn't happen either.

sounds like you're trying to act like that year didn't exist...

(07-30-2019 02:13 PM)scoscox Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:09 PM)stever20 Wrote:  It was just 1 year, 2015.

And you can't pretend last year didn't happen either.

sounds like you're trying to act like that year didn't exist...

well given what has happened in the last 4 years, especially the last 2- the trend lines aren't good for the A10. The A10 was behind not only the AAC but also 3 other non P7 conferences.

Stever i can't believe you're blatantly breaking your own rules here and pretending that year doesn't exist. I am floored and feel deceived

(07-30-2019 02:09 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:06 PM)scoscox Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 01:55 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  For the first time ever. Since it's inception the AAC has been behind the A-10 more times than it's been ahead of any of the P6.

And remember stever, you can't just pretend that those years don't exist as a wise man once said

It was just 1 year, 2015.

And you can't pretend last year didn't happen either.

Wrong again, it was twice. 2014-2015 and 2015-2016.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basket...2015-04-07

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basket...2016-04-05

Thats also not mentioning in 2016-2017 they had nearly identical conference RPI's. AAC .525 and the A-10 .523

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basket...2017-04-04

They are closer to those types of conferences than they are the P6 and it's not up for debate.

Yikes, now it's two to three years you will have to force yourself not to black out, stever.

Also, weird to see the Big East in third all of those years above the Big Ten, who you assured all of us had passed the Big East by

(07-30-2019 02:22 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:09 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:06 PM)scoscox Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 01:55 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  For the first time ever. Since it's inception the AAC has been behind the A-10 more times than it's been ahead of any of the P6.

And remember stever, you can't just pretend that those years don't exist as a wise man once said

It was just 1 year, 2015.

And you can't pretend last year didn't happen either.

Wrong again, it was twice. 2014-2015 and 2015-2016.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basket...2015-04-07

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basket...2016-04-05

Thats also not mentioning in 2016-2017 they had nearly identical conference RPI's. AAC .525 and the A-10 .523

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basket...2017-04-04

They are closer to those types of conferences than they are the P6 and it's not up for debate.

Ken Pom has the AAC ahead of them every single year except 2015.

Also if you look at the RPI(which is dead because conferences like the A10 gamed it)- avg for the 6 years- AAC .5349 A10 .5238. And last 2 years, which is fair because that's with Wichita- AAC .5424 A10 .5031. Oh, and the Pac 12 .5410.

(07-30-2019 12:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 12:50 PM)scoscox Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 10:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  dude I don't hate the Big East. They're a good conference. I don't think they're on the same level right now as the ACC or Big Ten, and I think going forward with the money, that difference is just going to grow more and more. You can't be brining in only 5-6 million dollars while the Big Ten is bringing in 50 million- and keep up. AAC is in the exact same boat.

Right, but we don't have any football. Most of those millions go to football. 5-6 for just basketball is pretty good. It allows us to keep our budgets in the same range as the P5. We'll see what adding UConn does to those payouts. On top of that the Big East has a lot of natural advantages as far as proximity to recruits and MSG fwiw (and it is worth something). No other conference serves the northeast basketball market to the same extent. The Big East is in pretty good position moving forward

Even if you do the 80/20 it's still 10 million for the Big Ten for basketball. And there's only so much for football that you can do.

Also, the money advantages we're seeing in the Big Ten especially, but also SEC- have just happened in the last 2-3 years. And when the new TV deals come around, it's just going to get more for the P5.

Despite not having football, Big East programs are having no problem spending as much as the ACC, Big 12, B1G, PAC and SEC in men's basketball.

Georgetown is #3 in the country now in basketball spending. Marquette is #8, Villanova is #11 and UConn is #25. Providence, St. John's Creighton and Xavier are all in the top-50. Seton Hall just paid more to retain Willard. Butler is spending more than when they were in the A10/Horizon. For as much as the revenue disparity has grown between the P5 and the G5 in the past several years, Big East teams have been spending more - and they will likely only spend more in the future once their Fox deal/extension gets announced (likely next July 1st, when UConn officially joins).

Big East teams are spending very much like the P5 in basketball; it's because a majority of their TV revenue goes directly into men's basketball, unlike many other schools that carry the added expense of football.