You enjoy your extra $90 in your pocket and I'll enjoy my football on Saturdays.

I've asked before.

What is UTA failing to achieve as an institution that would require adding football?

Very good academic reputation.
Pretty strong and consistent enrollment growth.

Some of us have to have football or we would slowly fade away as enrollment declined. Not a problem facing UTA.

(06-18-2019 11:34 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I've asked before.

What is UTA failing to achieve as an institution that would require adding football?

Very good academic reputation.
Pretty strong and consistent enrollment growth.

Some of us have to have football or we would slowly fade away as enrollment declined. Not a problem facing UTA.

I suppose you're right, especially if you nurse the quaint perception that academics and enrollment numbers matter more than the business of athletics, and especially football. It's better not to over-think it, because I would rather have football than to have a Tier One university that features nanotechnology and other arcane academic pursuits. Football. Now!

(06-18-2019 08:45 PM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(06-18-2019 11:34 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I've asked before.

What is UTA failing to achieve as an institution that would require adding football?

Very good academic reputation.
Pretty strong and consistent enrollment growth.

Some of us have to have football or we would slowly fade away as enrollment declined. Not a problem facing UTA.

I suppose you're right, especially if you nurse the quaint perception that academics and enrollment numbers matter more than the business of athletics, and especially football. It's better not to over-think it, because I would rather have football than to have a Tier One university that features nanotechnology and other arcane academic pursuits. Football. Now!

what they would achieve that they dont have now is more recognition. and maybe a small bump in perception as I have had to correct several folks who thought uta was a level below untexas and utsa because they have D1 football and uta doesnt. I dont know of a single program at either one of those schools except maybe music at untexas that I would send my kid to over uta. when utsa is having home games against the likes of Arizona and Kansas etc. they are gaining some cred. by association. we may get a little from our baseball/softball programs because many "names" come in to play us but those sports get no media coverage.

The counter point being, if we ever change how we finance colleges (ie, government picks up more of the bill like 40 years ago instead of using loans), the whole system of borrowing money to build amenities (dorms, student unions, athletic facilities) to attract students will collapse.

(06-19-2019 02:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The counter point being, if we ever change how we finance colleges (ie, government picks up more of the bill like 40 years ago instead of using loans), the whole system of borrowing money to build amenities (dorms, student unions, athletic facilities) to attract students will collapse.

while going to college is a right in the u.s., having the taxpayers foot the bill is not. so even tho the "vote for me and I will give you the most free stuff" candidates are all promoting that idea, I dont see it happening in my lifetime. 40 years ago and even 60 years ago the taxpayers were giving a boost to veterans who had earned some kind of assistance from the country. we have plenty of kids now who attend some fancy "name" college for a cpl. hundred thousand and get a degree in romance languages or such and then whine because all of a sudden realize they owe a lot of money and their degree doesnt get em a high paying job. I dont owe them any money. I went to a state school and got a degree in something that earns me a living (B.S. Architecture UTA). IMHO Besides, rabid fans will still give support to the flagship schools for their athletics and dorms may be built and leased by private firms.

(06-20-2019 07:44 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(06-19-2019 02:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The counter point being, if we ever change how we finance colleges (ie, government picks up more of the bill like 40 years ago instead of using loans), the whole system of borrowing money to build amenities (dorms, student unions, athletic facilities) to attract students will collapse.

while going to college is a right in the u.s., having the taxpayers foot the bill is not. so even tho the "vote for me and I will give you the most free stuff" candidates are all promoting that idea, I dont see it happening in my lifetime.

Bro, it's already happening in multiple states for community college. If CC is the modern day equivalent of a high school diploma then that should be treated as such by the state. We don't need a dumb society. Paying upfront for college will be cheaper in the long run than Idiocracy

(06-20-2019 07:44 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(06-19-2019 02:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The counter point being, if we ever change how we finance colleges (ie, government picks up more of the bill like 40 years ago instead of using loans), the whole system of borrowing money to build amenities (dorms, student unions, athletic facilities) to attract students will collapse.

while going to college is a right in the u.s., having the taxpayers foot the bill is not. so even tho the "vote for me and I will give you the most free stuff" candidates are all promoting that idea, I dont see it happening in my lifetime. 40 years ago and even 60 years ago the taxpayers were giving a boost to veterans who had earned some kind of assistance from the country. we have plenty of kids now who attend some fancy "name" college for a cpl. hundred thousand and get a degree in romance languages or such and then whine because all of a sudden realize they owe a lot of money and their degree doesnt get em a high paying job. I dont owe them any money. I went to a state school and got a degree in something that earns me a living (B.S. Architecture UTA). IMHO Besides, rabid fans will still give support to the flagship schools for their athletics and dorms may be built and leased by private firms.

i graduated in 1989.

At that time, the state of Arkansas via it's pile of tax money funded approximately 68% of the cost of my college and I paid the remainder.

My daughter graduated in 2017 and at that time the state of Arkansas via its pile of tax money funded approximately 30% of the cost of her college and I paid the remainder and had to borrow to do so.

Shifting to a borrowing based economy artificially inflated the cost of college because colleges needed better amenities to attract students.

In 1989 it would have been unthinkable that a large portion of the freshman class at Arkansas or Alabama would have been out-of-state students. In 2019 out-of-state students out-number in-state at both universities and any legislator who doesn't like it doesn't swing much of a stick because the state is small in the budget process.

I don't find it unthinkable that the mood of the country will change again. The Greatest Generation tried hard to make public college near free. The Boomers in the state houses and Congress have tried to get colleges off the public dole. What makes their generational thinking permanent? Nothing.

(06-20-2019 08:09 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 07:44 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(06-19-2019 02:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The counter point being, if we ever change how we finance colleges (ie, government picks up more of the bill like 40 years ago instead of using loans), the whole system of borrowing money to build amenities (dorms, student unions, athletic facilities) to attract students will collapse.

while going to college is a right in the u.s., having the taxpayers foot the bill is not. so even tho the "vote for me and I will give you the most free stuff" candidates are all promoting that idea, I dont see it happening in my lifetime.

Bro, it's already happening in multiple states for community college. If CC is the modern day equivalent of a high school diploma then that should be treated as such by the state. We don't need a dumb society. Paying upfront for college will be cheaper in the long run than Idiocracy

What drives me crazy is at least in Arkansas, many of the jucos were orginally vo-tech schools and expanded to be jucos while still teaching welding, mechanics, auto-body, etc.

Daughter of a friend concluded she wanted to be a hair dresser. My advice went unheeded. Pulaski Tech offers classes to get your license, instead spent about 10x as much going to Paul Mitchell and got no placement help.

Most any time a new factory of size comes to the state, the juco/tech schools can get grant money from the state to train people to work at the new place with tuition waived. AState added Mid-South in West Memphis primarily because they have a good industrial training program that they could have help the other jucos in the system.

(06-20-2019 12:51 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 08:09 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 07:44 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(06-19-2019 02:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The counter point being, if we ever change how we finance colleges (ie, government picks up more of the bill like 40 years ago instead of using loans), the whole system of borrowing money to build amenities (dorms, student unions, athletic facilities) to attract students will collapse.

while going to college is a right in the u.s., having the taxpayers foot the bill is not. so even tho the "vote for me and I will give you the most free stuff" candidates are all promoting that idea, I dont see it happening in my lifetime.

Bro, it's already happening in multiple states for community college. If CC is the modern day equivalent of a high school diploma then that should be treated as such by the state. We don't need a dumb society. Paying upfront for college will be cheaper in the long run than Idiocracy

What drives me crazy is at least in Arkansas, many of the jucos were orginally vo-tech schools and expanded to be jucos while still teaching welding, mechanics, auto-body, etc.

Daughter of a friend concluded she wanted to be a hair dresser. My advice went unheeded. Pulaski Tech offers classes to get your license, instead spent about 10x as much going to Paul Mitchell and got no placement help.

Most any time a new factory of size comes to the state, the juco/tech schools can get grant money from the state to train people to work at the new place with tuition waived. AState added Mid-South in West Memphis primarily because they have a good industrial training program that they could have help the other jucos in the system.

as a taxpayer I dont mind offering assistance to folks wanting to go to the local juco and learn a trade or a skill. not everyone needs or is suited for the whole college experience. college student should not be a lifestyle, it should be a means to an end.

(06-21-2019 11:06 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 12:51 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 08:09 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 07:44 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(06-19-2019 02:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The counter point being, if we ever change how we finance colleges (ie, government picks up more of the bill like 40 years ago instead of using loans), the whole system of borrowing money to build amenities (dorms, student unions, athletic facilities) to attract students will collapse.

while going to college is a right in the u.s., having the taxpayers foot the bill is not. so even tho the "vote for me and I will give you the most free stuff" candidates are all promoting that idea, I dont see it happening in my lifetime.

Bro, it's already happening in multiple states for community college. If CC is the modern day equivalent of a high school diploma then that should be treated as such by the state. We don't need a dumb society. Paying upfront for college will be cheaper in the long run than Idiocracy

What drives me crazy is at least in Arkansas, many of the jucos were orginally vo-tech schools and expanded to be jucos while still teaching welding, mechanics, auto-body, etc.

Daughter of a friend concluded she wanted to be a hair dresser. My advice went unheeded. Pulaski Tech offers classes to get your license, instead spent about 10x as much going to Paul Mitchell and got no placement help.

Most any time a new factory of size comes to the state, the juco/tech schools can get grant money from the state to train people to work at the new place with tuition waived. AState added Mid-South in West Memphis primarily because they have a good industrial training program that they could have help the other jucos in the system.

as a taxpayer I dont mind offering assistance to folks wanting to go to the local juco and learn a trade or a skill. not everyone needs or is suited for the whole college experience. college student should not be a lifestyle, it should be a means to an end.

Free college is subsidized idiocy, and Lord knows we already have plenty of that!

(06-21-2019 06:54 PM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(06-21-2019 11:06 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 12:51 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 08:09 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 07:44 AM)runamuck Wrote:  while going to college is a right in the u.s., having the taxpayers foot the bill is not. so even tho the "vote for me and I will give you the most free stuff" candidates are all promoting that idea, I dont see it happening in my lifetime.

Bro, it's already happening in multiple states for community college. If CC is the modern day equivalent of a high school diploma then that should be treated as such by the state. We don't need a dumb society. Paying upfront for college will be cheaper in the long run than Idiocracy

What drives me crazy is at least in Arkansas, many of the jucos were orginally vo-tech schools and expanded to be jucos while still teaching welding, mechanics, auto-body, etc.

Daughter of a friend concluded she wanted to be a hair dresser. My advice went unheeded. Pulaski Tech offers classes to get your license, instead spent about 10x as much going to Paul Mitchell and got no placement help.

Most any time a new factory of size comes to the state, the juco/tech schools can get grant money from the state to train people to work at the new place with tuition waived. AState added Mid-South in West Memphis primarily because they have a good industrial training program that they could have help the other jucos in the system.

as a taxpayer I dont mind offering assistance to folks wanting to go to the local juco and learn a trade or a skill. not everyone needs or is suited for the whole college experience. college student should not be a lifestyle, it should be a means to an end.

Free college is subsidized idiocy, and Lord knows we already have plenty of that!

The entire wealth of human knowledge is available for little to no money (public library) these days. Look to the future and find incredibly educated people with no "credentials" from a sheet of paper. One only needs a desire to learn, an ability to read, and a $30 a month dubyadubyadubya phone plan to learn.

(06-21-2019 07:26 PM)troutbummike Wrote:  

(06-21-2019 06:54 PM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(06-21-2019 11:06 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 12:51 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-20-2019 08:09 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Bro, it's already happening in multiple states for community college. If CC is the modern day equivalent of a high school diploma then that should be treated as such by the state. We don't need a dumb society. Paying upfront for college will be cheaper in the long run than Idiocracy

What drives me crazy is at least in Arkansas, many of the jucos were orginally vo-tech schools and expanded to be jucos while still teaching welding, mechanics, auto-body, etc.

Daughter of a friend concluded she wanted to be a hair dresser. My advice went unheeded. Pulaski Tech offers classes to get your license, instead spent about 10x as much going to Paul Mitchell and got no placement help.

Most any time a new factory of size comes to the state, the juco/tech schools can get grant money from the state to train people to work at the new place with tuition waived. AState added Mid-South in West Memphis primarily because they have a good industrial training program that they could have help the other jucos in the system.

as a taxpayer I dont mind offering assistance to folks wanting to go to the local juco and learn a trade or a skill. not everyone needs or is suited for the whole college experience. college student should not be a lifestyle, it should be a means to an end.

Free college is subsidized idiocy, and Lord knows we already have plenty of that!

The entire wealth of human knowledge is available for little to no money (public library) these days. Look to the future and find incredibly educated people with no "credentials" from a sheet of paper. One only needs a desire to learn, an ability to read, and a $30 a month dubyadubyadubya phone plan to learn.

That is true, and has been for some time. Too bad we need "credentials."

What's UTA's commitment to the conference? In it for the long haul?

(06-25-2019 12:08 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  What's UTA's commitment to the conference? In it for the long haul?

Yes, I would think so, unless they got an invitation from a P5 conference, or unless they could be in a conference with several closer Texas rivals, UTA would be very loath to even consider leaving the Belt. AS long as UT Arlington does not play football, it is a mystery to me why any football conference would want them.

Perhaps someone made promises to Carl Benson, or maybe some secret deal is being hatched. I know it is nice for the Sun Belt's image to have a foothold in the Dallas- Fort Worth media market, and maybe gives Sun Belt schools better access to recruits.