Ralph Cooper - a longtime African American sports talk host in Houston reported the following...

Rumor from reliable source
You read it here first
TEXAS SOUTHERN UNIVERSITY
RESEARCHING A MOVE TO
SOUTHLAND CONFERENCE .WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR A POSSIBLE TSU TIGER MOVE OUT OF THE SWAC
SOUTHWESTERN ATHLETIC CONFERENCE.
BOARD OF REGENTS OR TSU OFFICIALS?

Southland has way too many schools. Texas Southern beat 3 P5’s last year. Just stick with the SWAC where there’s less teams to go through, higher shares, and more rivals.

I have a similar thread about Southern U. going to the Southland, and Texas Southern's name been brought up.

Southern U.

(06-10-2019 07:36 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Southland has way too many schools. Texas Southern beat 3 P5’s last year. Just stick with the SWAC where there’s less teams to go through, higher shares, and more rivals.

Yeah, Southland is its own mess. Aren’t SFA, SHSU, and Lamar itching to get out?

Rock and a hard place if there ever was.

(06-10-2019 07:36 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Southland has way too many schools. Texas Southern beat 3 P5’s last year. Just stick with the SWAC where there’s less teams to go through, higher shares, and more rivals.

On the other hand, moving to the Southland gives Texas Southern an avenue to the FCS playoffs, a better seed in the NCAAs if they win it, and it helps with basketball OOC scheduling because they can still play SWAC teams there if they so choose. So there's a case to be made.

(06-10-2019 09:14 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 07:36 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Southland has way too many schools. Texas Southern beat 3 P5’s last year. Just stick with the SWAC where there’s less teams to go through, higher shares, and more rivals.

Yeah, Southland is its own mess. Aren’t SFA, SHSU, and Lamar itching to get out?

Rock and a hard place if there ever was.

The WAC would be their only option. From a cost standpoint, better to stay in the SLC. Texas Southern would be stupid to join the bloated SLC.

There is no conference based playoff money in FCS, so it doesn't matter if the SLC has 11 or 12 football members. They will play 8 conference games regardless. And larger conferences tend to get more at large bids, so the chances of making the FCS playoff are probably no different.

This is just more evidence IMO that the two HBCU conferences are slowly dying off. Members schools one by one are building survival plans based on post-HBCU life. I mean that beyond athletics, as some schools are looking to become more racially balanced and are facing the reality that state funding almost demands that. Looking for athletic conferences beyond the HBCU such as Tennessee State and Hampton have done, is part of that. The reaction to Hampton's move shows how sensitive that reality is, how deep the cognitive dissonance on the subject of integration is in the HBCU community. We hear rumors now and again of schools like FAMU testing the waters, and probably a couple we never hear about. The diversity of the schools and their directions is ripping apart the nostalgia holding the SWAC and MEAC together. We can just add Texas Southern to the list of schools looking at post-HBCU conference membership.

(06-10-2019 11:05 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 09:14 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 07:36 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Southland has way too many schools. Texas Southern beat 3 P5’s last year. Just stick with the SWAC where there’s less teams to go through, higher shares, and more rivals.

Yeah, Southland is its own mess. Aren’t SFA, SHSU, and Lamar itching to get out?

Rock and a hard place if there ever was.

The WAC would be their only option. From a cost standpoint, better to stay in the SLC. Texas Southern would be stupid to join the bloated SLC.

Or they could stay in the SWAC and slum it with a bunch of bottom-feeders like Miss Valley State and Prairie View. As great as the HBCU sports tradition is, the overall quality of athletics is hot garbage and the SWAC and MEAC compete for the bottom conference in every major and secondary sport out there. The SLC would be a huge step forward for them.

Ralph Cooper knows his stuff. I consider him a very reputable source.

There is a lot of tradition among HBCUs that TSU would find hard to leave. However, they are considering the future.

They'd trade conference trips to Alabama and Mississippi for a bunch of games in Texas and Louisiana and an outlier in Arkansas. There are eight SLC schools within a 4 hour drive (A&M-CC, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, Sam Houston, Lamar, McNeese, SFA, Northwestern State). Depending on SLC scheduling, there could be some cost savings.

In the SLC, they would have a chance to play in the FCS football playoffs. In basketball, they would move up a few spots in conference RPI. However, they would have to compete with a ton more schools for the one bid to the tournament.

If they see the writing on the wall for the SWAC, they are looking for the best move out.

I wonder if Prairie View is considering the same move. They have the same expense issues as TSU. They would be left alone in Texas if TSU joins the SLC.

I do agree that the SLC is bloated, though. TSU would be the 14th school if no one leaves.

This is a NO brainer .... Less travel time .. Less travel cost .. Less time away from class .. Less Racial issues .. We live in a color blind era .. It’s high time for Colleges to face reality ..


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(06-11-2019 09:34 AM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  This is a NO brainer .... Less travel time .. Less travel cost .. Less time away from class .. Less Racial issues .. We live in a color blind era .. It’s high time for Colleges to face reality ..


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Hardly a no-brainer, the other schools would use the HBCU status against TSU in recruiting, they probably have better funding (though TSU's basketball and football facilities are top notch and they can borrow facilities throughout the city, especially from UH right down the street) and TSU would sink because it's harder to compete at a higher level. They do well but don't dominate the SWAC. *Finally, many of their hardcore fans like games against SWAC schools because they are also HBCU's or, if you want to be lazy in speech/racially insensitive (many are), all-black schools.

There's a whole culture of SWAC pride among all the schools that goes beyond the games, especially in football from the spirit teams/pep squads, to the fraternity steppers to, of course, the bands. They'd even lose recruiting territory for both prospective students and athletes. A school like Hampton is very progressive and kinda outgrew the MEAC. I can't say the same about many HBCU's. That said, TSU is in easily the most cosmopolitan city in all the SWAC but then again, that'd be true in the Southland as well. I can't say for certain it's any more than a lateral move.

*Disclaimer: I'm black making that comment.

Plus, we have the other TSU that wants to move up from d2. I would love to see D1 start going to an all football regional conferences, and non-football schools could still be far flung since it costs less to travel than you would with football.

Southland West could get the SWC name to be more Texas base.

Southland East could be SWAC Louisiana and Jackson State with the Louisiana and Arkansas schools from Southland.

New SWAC with Mississippi Valley State, Alcorn State, Tuskegee, Alabama State, Alabama A&M, Bethune-Cookman, Florida A&M, Albany State, Valdosta State, South Carolina State, North Alabama and Kennesaw State.

WAC could let Chicago State and UMKC go, and grab West Texas A&M, Incarnate-Word, Angelo State and Texas A&M-C.C.

That would give a lot of room to move teams around.

The VERY BEST move would be to merge with U of H .., That would be a tremendous increase in both Academics and Athletics ... I think the days of playing Alcorn A&M and Mississippi Valley are coming to an end ... Too much time , not enough money ..


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I think the SLC will expand and then split. It seems inevitable. So many schools in Texas especially want to be D-I or get out of the SWAC.

But when it reaches 16 or so it's split soon after. But until it reaches that it will continue to bloat.

Current is 11/13, the opposite ration of the Big Sky at 13/11

Sports is a way that many schools market themselves to promote enrollment of tuition paying students. I looked at TSU's website and saw that in Fall 2005 that had 11,903 students. In Fall of 2018 they had 9,099 (a decline of 2804 or 24%).

Would a move to the Southland help TSU recruit more tuition paying students?
Does being in the SWAC affect TSU's enrollment positively or negatively?

As an example of "sports as marketing", I followed TSU during the CIT and enjoyed their play. So now I have a positive association to TSU in my mind. I lived in central Texas for 15 years and never thought of TSU once. But if they would have played in the Southland Conference, I would have thought of them often.

Southland Confernece

East Division
Central Arkansas
Lamar
McNeese State
Nicholls
Northwestern State
Southeastern Louisiana
*New Orleans

West Division
Abilene Christian
Houston Baptist
Incarnate Ward
Sam Houston State
Stephen F. Austin
Texas Southern
*Texas A&M-Corpus Christi

*Non-Football

(06-11-2019 10:43 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 09:34 AM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  This is a NO brainer .... Less travel time .. Less travel cost .. Less time away from class .. Less Racial issues .. We live in a color blind era .. It’s high time for Colleges to face reality ..


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Hardly a no-brainer, the other schools would use the HBCU status against TSU in recruiting, they probably have better funding (though TSU's basketball and football facilities are top notch and they can borrow facilities throughout the city, especially from UH right down the street) and TSU would sink because it's harder to compete at a higher level. They do well but don't dominate the SWAC. *Finally, many of their hardcore fans like games against SWAC schools because they are also HBCU's or, if you want to be lazy in speech/racially insensitive (many are), all-black schools.

There's a whole culture of SWAC pride among all the schools that goes beyond the games, especially in football from the spirit teams/pep squads, to the fraternity steppers to, of course, the bands. They'd even lose recruiting territory for both prospective students and athletes. A school like Hampton is very progressive and kinda outgrew the MEAC. I can't say the same about many HBCU's. That said, TSU is in easily the most cosmopolitan city in all the SWAC but then again, that'd be true in the Southland as well. I can't say for certain it's any more than a lateral move.

*Disclaimer: I'm black making that comment.

To this point, hearing what MEAC and SWAC schools allegedly did to Hampton on their way out was pretty darn lousy, and made worse by the detrimental impact it had on those who did the shunning. Hampton threw MEAC a bone giving in to some demands, but them turning it around AGAIN on Hampton and still refusing to work with them...my god, what kind of silos are these schools really in?

SWAC strikes me as the healthier of the two HBCU D1 conferences, but, I would expect them to do the same if one of its own ventured outside of a legacy conference.

...but I don't blame TSU in the least for wanting to leave. I don't think Southland is a good option, but, staying in SWAC and MEAC pretty much guarantees no access to the FCS playoff and a lifetime as a play-in participant at the NCAA tournament. Legacy be d***ed, that has to get old pretty fast. Especially if your numbers aren't coming in.

(06-11-2019 03:12 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 10:43 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 09:34 AM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  This is a NO brainer .... Less travel time .. Less travel cost .. Less time away from class .. Less Racial issues .. We live in a color blind era .. It’s high time for Colleges to face reality ..


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Hardly a no-brainer, the other schools would use the HBCU status against TSU in recruiting, they probably have better funding (though TSU's basketball and football facilities are top notch and they can borrow facilities throughout the city, especially from UH right down the street) and TSU would sink because it's harder to compete at a higher level. They do well but don't dominate the SWAC. *Finally, many of their hardcore fans like games against SWAC schools because they are also HBCU's or, if you want to be lazy in speech/racially insensitive (many are), all-black schools.

There's a whole culture of SWAC pride among all the schools that goes beyond the games, especially in football from the spirit teams/pep squads, to the fraternity steppers to, of course, the bands. They'd even lose recruiting territory for both prospective students and athletes. A school like Hampton is very progressive and kinda outgrew the MEAC. I can't say the same about many HBCU's. That said, TSU is in easily the most cosmopolitan city in all the SWAC but then again, that'd be true in the Southland as well. I can't say for certain it's any more than a lateral move.

*Disclaimer: I'm black making that comment.

To this point, hearing what MEAC and SWAC schools allegedly did to Hampton on their way out was pretty darn lousy, and made worse by the detrimental impact it had on those who did the shunning. Hampton threw MEAC a bone giving in to some demands, but them turning it around AGAIN on Hampton and still refusing to work with them...my god, what kind of silos are these schools really in?

SWAC strikes me as the healthier of the two HBCU D1 conferences, but, I would expect them to do the same if one of its own ventured outside of a legacy conference.

...but I don't blame TSU in the least for wanting to leave. I don't think Southland is a good option, but, staying in SWAC and MEAC pretty much guarantees no access to the FCS playoff and a lifetime as a play-in participant at the NCAA tournament. Legacy be d***ed, that has to get old pretty fast. Especially if your numbers aren't coming in.

Two options for HBCUs come to mind:

1. After the schools that want to remain in D1 find safe harbor, the SWAC and MEAC move to D2, possibly reorganizing with the CIAA and SIAC to create three or four HBCU conferences.

2. The HBCU conferences leave the NCAA and create their own athletic association inclusive of all HBCUs (and non-HBCUs should they want to participate). NBC is paying out a decent bit for the Celebration Bowl; they or another network might be willing to pony up for an HBCU football or basketball playoff. There's only (as far as I can count) 50 HBCUs that offer athletics, and some of them like Hampton and Tennessee State probably wouldn't give up D1 for this, so it probably wouldn't work unless some non-HBCUs joined up. But it's a thought.

EDIT TO ADD: 50 is the approximate number of football-playing HBCUs, at least for 2019. There's non-football HBCUs like Coppin State, Maryland-Eastern Shore and Claflin. Still not sure that the numbers work, but more than I had thought at first.

(06-11-2019 03:12 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  ...but I don't blame TSU in the least for wanting to leave. I don't think Southland is a good option, but, staying in SWAC and MEAC pretty much guarantees no access to the FCS playoff and a lifetime as a play-in participant at the NCAA tournament. Legacy be d***ed, that has to get old pretty fast. Especially if your numbers aren't coming in.

The winner of the conference could decide to play in the playoffs rather than CB. But so far they have all decided to go to the Celebration Bowl instead. Conference runner-up can get an invite to the playoffs if they're good enough to earn it. The HBCUs would rather go to the Celebration Bowl because of many reasons; only one travel date, great destination, better TV time/date, more money, bigger TV audience, etc.

(06-11-2019 03:44 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Two options for HBCUs come to mind:

1. After the schools that want to remain in D1 find safe harbor, the SWAC and MEAC move to D2, possibly reorganizing with the CIAA and SIAC to create three or four HBCU conferences.

2. The HBCU conferences leave the NCAA and create their own athletic association inclusive of all HBCUs (and non-HBCUs should they want to participate). NBC is paying out a decent bit for the Celebration Bowl; they or another network might be willing to pony up for an HBCU football or basketball playoff. There's only (as far as I can count) 50 HBCUs that offer athletics, and some of them like Hampton and Tennessee State probably wouldn't give up D1 for this, so it probably wouldn't work unless some non-HBCUs joined up. But it's a thought.

EDIT TO ADD: 50 is the approximate number of football-playing HBCUs, at least for 2019. There's non-football HBCUs like Coppin State, Maryland-Eastern Shore and Claflin. Still not sure that the numbers work, but more than I had thought at first.

There are 53 HBCUs in the NCAA (24 in D1, 28 in D2, 1 in D3). NAIA has about 20 HBCUs.