Musicowl1965
2nd String
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I Root For: Rice
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RE: 2019 Baseball Coaching Review
(06-03-2019 03:48 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: (06-03-2019 10:25 AM)Musicowl1965 Wrote: (06-01-2019 06:14 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: (06-01-2019 05:08 PM)Musicowl1965 Wrote: (06-01-2019 03:37 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: I know i'm beating a dead horse here, but how did Gayle make "good progress"? Based on what metric exactly? Actually, his best stint at Rice was the first month of the 2018 season. However, he was equally inconsistent, hittable and wild both seasons....unless, of course, stats lie as does the eye test.
Anytime Gayle’s name is mentioned you get your standard criticisms in. I believe I posted his and Kendall’s improvement numbers a while back and will not bore others with a repost (FYI I suspect Kendall will get a shot at pro ball). I’ve said this before and hopefully for the last time that you are at best inconsistent as you seem to get on a few of the players for poor play but rarely give kudos for good play (Texas A&M, Sam Houston, UT etc). Some do get your kudos but when they are sub par it likely they are “tired” or not used “correctly” according to your analysis. . Seems to me you have (and have had) a bone to pick with a few of them for some reason. Why is the question. I’m not here to stand up for Gayle in particular but he does appear to get most of your ire
I’ve said it before and will state it again. Your passion is unbelievable and unmatched IMO and you at times have great insight and thoughts on the program. I just would like to see a more level opinion when justified. Looking forward to next year and the improvement I know is coming for the team.
??? First off, Kendall did not improve over last year, when he was easily our best reliever and spot starter. He was again solid during the first month this year, but his final 4 weeks of this season (save for a strong outing in Biloxi) were the worst stretch of his Rice career. I usually don't look at ERA so much for relief pitchers as they don't factor in the inherited runners allowed to score. In 43.1 IP, he gave up 48 hits (.294 BAA), with 13 extra base hits. He was significantly better in 2018. Gayle ended the year with a 5.51 ERA, .286 BAA, 1.80 WHIP, with 13 wild pitches in 40.2 IP (giving up 46 hits). How is that an improvement? He also struck out more batters per IP in 2018. Again, I fully suspect Gayle will get drafted in the Top 8 - 9 rounds simply because of the velocity on his fastball and his "plus" curveball, but he was the exact same pitcher this year as last year. Woefully inconsistent-- even within the same outing.
How were Kendall and Gayle used last year compared to this year? Due to the lack of depth on the staff both were required to go multiple innings per outing which will ultimately inflate some of the numbers you referenced. In general, back end of the rotation guys (closers etc.) are built during the fall and spring with their innings or pitch counts limited (+/-20-25 pitches per outing). When you, due to need, stretch them to 40-60 pitches this can, sometimes, adversely affect their effectiveness. This is not an excuse just a possible explanation. WG would only use Gayle for 1 inning outings (in general) due to him wanting him to leave it all on the field and go full effort. In longer outings you have to pace yourself to last longer and you really should train your body to do so in the offseason. This is a mental exercise as much as a physical one and needs to be trained as well. Inconsistency is usually the result of training or, I believe in this one, the lack thereof.
I also agree with previous post regarding the bullpen. Most of the pen in the WG era were in the pen by the 5th inning and preparing for whoever coach would call. Pitcher like to get mentally prepared and this allowed that. Whether they went in or not they started getting their heads around the situation. While I believe WG at times warmed up too many pitchers throwing too many BP pitches I think the plan from this last year of sending down one at a time may have been going to far the other way. However, Bragga likes his pitchers in the dugout supporting the team which I think is fine also. Maybe just let them head down in the 5th or earlier next season and see if it works better.
Another question is how do you believe pitchers should be evaluated? Most metrics for this are changing. Pitchers now are more and more evaluated via video (rapsosod, edgertronic etc. which I have mentioned before) and the execution of the pitch called. Not whether or not it was hit, or a ball etc. (pitch sequencing).If coach calls for a pitch out of the zone and they throw one in the zone that gets hit...it was not an "executed" pitch. If coach calls one down and in and the pitch goes, down and in, for 3 run HR it is still an "executed" pitch. Yet, those that do not adhere to this evaluation will say the pitcher sucked and need to sit for a few weeks, or get therapy (obvious exaggeration here). So, unless you know what pitch was called in any given situation and whether or not the pitch was executed then using stats as the only metric is a fallacy. Now, I know we do not have access to this information so stats are all we have so I do understand your basis. However, do know, that when a pitcher is evaluated by his coach, scouts etc. the metrics you utilize are rarely what is now the main evaluation tool. Tim Corbin is a master evaluator of talent. If you listen to his interviews (which I have) after a pitcher has a bad outing the first thing he mentions is looking at video to see if the pitches were "executed". If they are he has often come back and said that the coaches calls were not the right calls in that particular situation as his pitcher executed the called pitch. I believe many coaches (Barton and Bragga included) have these conversations with their pitchers. We just are not privy to them. Sometimes answers why coaches go with high "ERA" guys in critical situations. They trust them to execute.
If any on this board want to fully understand how, I believe, pitchers are evaluated in HS, College and Pros I recommend you get up to speed with what the Astros & Dodgers feel are important metrics (spin rate, efficiency, lateral and vert movement etc.). Hint...its not ERA, BAA, HBP, WP, even WHIP. Pro's also know that the college strike zone is highly suspect as college umpires are, at best, average compared to the pro level (where they are better evaluated). Just look at some of the regional games this past weekend and you will know this is the case. K zone is all over the place!!!
If any would like to have an intelligent conversation on this then do your research and respond with an educated comment not the the standard B.S. comment I see from some.
Way to long winded and I apologize to those that had to muck through this to the end.
Hey, I respect you knowledge and your perspective, but you could stop with the condescending B.S. I gave you an intelligent and researched response above. You disagree, and that's fine, but to call out any response as "uneducated" that doesn't agree with you is pretty pathetic. BTW, Kendall was used exactly the same this year as last year. He was a jack of all trades out of the bullpen, and even started several games. Outside of Aardsma, Wayne has never used his closer as a one-inning guy. Instead, they were "firemen", who came in as early as the 7th inning, if necessary to get out of jam, and then finish the game. CSC, Bramhall, Simms, Duffy, Cingrani, Lemond, Orewiiler, Ditman and Otto were all used this way. I can recall a number of games last year when Gayle was called in to get out of a jam in the 7th or 8th inning, and then tried to close it out. Unfortunately, as was the case this year, Gayle could be lights out one inning and then blow the game the next.
Walt, the "B.S" comment I noted in my post was how you, at times, start your response on issues you disagree with. I was not saying an "uneducated or uninformed" response to my post would be "B.S." as I do not believe that or chose to use that as a response. I do have a slight insight into how the BP was used (planned and what was ultimately done, including the WG era) and thoughts on how that could be improved upon in the future but I trust Bragga and Barton to get that worked out going forward. Likely no more insight that you Walt maybe just a different source. Arguing what was done in the past (how players WERE used) to predict the future (how current players ARE used) assumes that all current/future players are the same (which they are obviously not) and that coaches will not adjust to the different strengths of the players. For example, if you feel that Gayle is effective in 1 inning stints then that is how he should've been used. That is up to the coaches. Most college closers, if you look it up, are just that...1 inning guys. 20 appearances, 20 IP etc..There are outliers which we could both find but this is just a general statement. Due to the lack of depth that Bragga had this year he was not really able to use Kendall or Gayle as a true closer. He tried to stretch them both. I do not fault Coach it is just something he had to work with.
Brighter days are coming and look forward to the fall and spring when baseball rolls around again.
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