(05-21-2019 09:14 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I think Texas stays in BIG12... agree

Longhoen becomes BIG12 Network by 2026... maybe, but at minimum don't see LHN being renewed much, if any, longer than it has to by ESPN

I actually think that Arizona schools (ASU & Zona) may join BIG12 since Pac12 money will not be that good.. I don't. AZ schools like being with their west coast compatriots.

Or a combo like ASU & Houston or ASU and CINCY ... Highly unlikely. 1) AZ schools won't leave one another. 2) Big 12 gains nothing from adding Houston or Cincinnati...they will remain in AAC purgatory like UConn and the others.

(05-21-2019 09:29 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 09:14 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I think Texas stays in BIG12... agree

Longhoen becomes BIG12 Network by 2026... maybe, but at minimum don't see LHN being renewed much, if any, longer than it has to by ESPN

I actually think that Arizona schools (ASU & Zona) may join BIG12 since Pac12 money will not be that good.. I don't. AZ schools like being with their west coast compatriots.

Or a combo like ASU & Houston or ASU and CINCY ... Highly unlikely. 1) AZ schools won't leave one another. 2) Big 12 gains nothing from adding Houston or Cincinnati...they will remain in AAC purgatory like UConn and the others.

What did the Big 12 have to "gain" by adding TCU? They still took them.

I will tell you what the Big 12 and ACC have to gain by taking UC. A flag planted right in the middle of both B1G and SEC territory.

Quiz time. What P5 would least like to see UC get in a P5 conference? I'll tell you. Ohio State.

Why? They dominate the B1G in football. If O$U isn't in the CFP, the B1G's likely not getting in and the Big 12 is. They don't want someone in their neighborhood helping themselves to some of their pie and getting in their way to an easy CFP invite.

So it's not so much abut a "gain", it's moving in on what someone else has got. Expansion is just as much about "taking" as it is about "getting".

THAT is what the Big 12 would gain.

… I mean, WHY else is Rutgers in the B1G ???

I won't be surprised at all if Texas remains in the Big 12 and the "dream" of a P4 with 16 schools each remains a message board fantasy.

(05-21-2019 10:56 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I won't be surprised at all if Texas remains in the Big 12 and the "dream" of a P4 with 16 schools each remains a message board fantasy.

I would be surprised if your statement proves to be wrong.

(05-21-2019 10:47 AM)Topcat Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 09:29 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 09:14 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I think Texas stays in BIG12... agree

Longhoen becomes BIG12 Network by 2026... maybe, but at minimum don't see LHN being renewed much, if any, longer than it has to by ESPN

I actually think that Arizona schools (ASU & Zona) may join BIG12 since Pac12 money will not be that good.. I don't. AZ schools like being with their west coast compatriots.

Or a combo like ASU & Houston or ASU and CINCY ... Highly unlikely. 1) AZ schools won't leave one another. 2) Big 12 gains nothing from adding Houston or Cincinnati...they will remain in AAC purgatory like UConn and the others.

What did the Big 12 have to "gain" by adding TCU? They still took them.

I will tell you what the Big 12 and ACC have to gain by taking UC. A flag planted right in the middle of both B1G and SEC territory.

Quiz time. What P5 would least like to see UC get in a P5 conference? I'll tell you. Ohio State.

Why? They dominate the B1G in football. If O$U isn't in the CFP, the B1G's likely not getting in and the Big 12 is. They don't want someone in their neighborhood helping themselves to some of their pie and getting in their way to an easy CFP invite.

So it's not so much abut a "gain", it's moving in on what someone else has got. Expansion is just as much about "taking" as it is about "getting".

THAT is what the Big 12 would gain.

… I mean, WHY else is Rutgers in the B1G ???

I’d rather have Tulane. Plant that flag on Bourbon Street.

(05-21-2019 05:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  So the ACC gets a to prop up a marginal basketball team in the middle of Texas? No thanks. Five games against their football team isn’t worth it to me. They may think they’re on Notre Dame’s level, but they’re not. Let the Big XII give them a “Notre Dame deal”.

You must not be a Frank Zappa fan.

It's access into one of the largest, fastest growing states in the country .... with it's flagship school, meaning instant market saturation. Unlike the pretend penetration Rutgers or UConn gives conferences to the NYC market, Texas would deliver that state in spades.

And, oh by the way, the school happens to be prestigious academically too, named one of the best public universities in the country, along with North Carolina, Virginia and Cal Berkeley, year in, year out.

The ACC would be foolish to turn that down.

If making them feel like they are on Notre Dame's level is the key to winning them over, then tell them they are like Notre Dame, and win them over.

(05-21-2019 10:47 AM)Topcat Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 09:29 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 09:14 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I think Texas stays in BIG12... agree

Longhoen becomes BIG12 Network by 2026... maybe, but at minimum don't see LHN being renewed much, if any, longer than it has to by ESPN

I actually think that Arizona schools (ASU & Zona) may join BIG12 since Pac12 money will not be that good.. I don't. AZ schools like being with their west coast compatriots.

Or a combo like ASU & Houston or ASU and CINCY ... Highly unlikely. 1) AZ schools won't leave one another. 2) Big 12 gains nothing from adding Houston or Cincinnati...they will remain in AAC purgatory like UConn and the others.

What did the Big 12 have to "gain" by adding TCU? They still took them.

I will tell you what the Big 12 and ACC have to gain by taking UC. A flag planted right in the middle of both B1G and SEC territory.

Quiz time. What P5 would least like to see UC get in a P5 conference? I'll tell you. Ohio State.

Why? They dominate the B1G in football. If O$U isn't in the CFP, the B1G's likely not getting in and the Big 12 is. They don't want someone in their neighborhood helping themselves to some of their pie and getting in their way to an easy CFP invite.

So it's not so much abut a "gain", it's moving in on what someone else has got. Expansion is just as much about "taking" as it is about "getting".

THAT is what the Big 12 would gain.

… I mean, WHY else is Rutgers in the B1G ???

What did the Big XII have to gain by adding TCU????

The Big XII was super desperate when they added TCU ... they had TV partners paying them mega money, and suddenly, they were losing Missouri and Texas A & M on the heels of losing Nebraska and Colorado. The Big XII had some MAJOR tap dancing to do, to maintain the conference as it was ... TCU and West Virginia allowed them to do that.

Adding TCU allowed the Big XII to continue existing. They "gained" self preservation with that add.

(05-21-2019 07:35 AM)esayem Wrote:  Really? The Big XII had Miami, Clemson, and FSU in their "plans". Also Notre Dame and Arkansas. It may be the "plan", but we know this doesn't mean the target has the same designs.

Everything I've seen in writing is speculative at best, which makes me believe the only thing ACC related to Texas is Austin Community College.

The ONLY benefit I see is tying their football team into joining. That begs the question, is the deal worth it to Texas? I say no. Even with a 9 game schedule in the Big Ten, Oklahoma NEEDS Texas; recruiting Texas is their lifeblood. So even without the Sooners in the Big XII, the idea of creating a pseudo-independent schedule just doesn't seem to offer much benefit to the Horns over their built-in Big XII schedule, that mark my words, will still include Oklahoma no matter where they end up.

The topic of the thread is "What's Next For Texas". I say they remain in the Big XII.

I admit that my posts were speculative. After all I am just a "random asian guy" with zero inside information.

Still, I am trying to make a rational prediction based on the public information.

With OU and another team out, the Big 12 would not be the Big 12 we know. It's going to be like the old Big East in its last days.

Among two options below, which would give more money to UT?

1. LHN plus portion of some media deal for the conference with following teams [Ok state, Baylor, TTU, ISU, K state, KU, WVU, Cincy, BYU, SMU (or any other three G5 teams)]
2. LHN plus partial ACCN deal

Which one would Texas choose?

(05-21-2019 10:56 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I won't be surprised at all if Texas remains in the Big 12 and the "dream" of a P4 with 16 schools each remains a message board fantasy.

I got a question for you. Why didn't ND stay in the watered down Big East? You could enjoy a complete football independence without any attachment whatsoever.

(05-21-2019 05:14 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 10:56 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I won't be surprised at all if Texas remains in the Big 12 and the "dream" of a P4 with 16 schools each remains a message board fantasy.

I got a question for you. Why didn't ND stay in the watered down Big East? You could enjoy a complete football independence without any attachment whatsoever.

Not Terry, but I can take a stab at an answer here ....

Notre Dame saw the writing on the wall regarding the Big East, namely, the split between those schools without D-I football, and those with.

Schools they had long traditions of playing (Boston College, and Pitt specifically, but also Miami, and Syracuse) were leaving the Big East for the ACC.

Notre Dame wanted to maintain affiliations with those schools, so they negotiated a deal with the ACC to allow them to move their non-football sports to the conference, in exchange for 5 games in football against ACC schools. And while football is most important to Notre Dame, they wanted to ensure that their other programs were put in the best possible situation. The ACC is a great place for those programs.

And 5 football games a year with the ACC is the right mix not effecting schedule strength, and preserving ND's ability to schedule nationally.

I think Notre Dame has done very well for itself in this arrangement. And it certainly has enhanced the ACC too. One of those rare win-wins, from where I sit.

(05-21-2019 10:47 AM)Topcat Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 09:29 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 09:14 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I think Texas stays in BIG12... agree

Longhoen becomes BIG12 Network by 2026... maybe, but at minimum don't see LHN being renewed much, if any, longer than it has to by ESPN

I actually think that Arizona schools (ASU & Zona) may join BIG12 since Pac12 money will not be that good.. I don't. AZ schools like being with their west coast compatriots.

Or a combo like ASU & Houston or ASU and CINCY ... Highly unlikely. 1) AZ schools won't leave one another. 2) Big 12 gains nothing from adding Houston or Cincinnati...they will remain in AAC purgatory like UConn and the others.

What did the Big 12 have to "gain" by adding TCU? They still took them.

I will tell you what the Big 12 and ACC have to gain by taking UC. A flag planted right in the middle of both B1G and SEC territory.

Quiz time. What P5 would least like to see UC get in a P5 conference? I'll tell you. Ohio State.

Why? They dominate the B1G in football. If O$U isn't in the CFP, the B1G's likely not getting in and the Big 12 is. They don't want someone in their neighborhood helping themselves to some of their pie and getting in their way to an easy CFP invite.

So it's not so much abut a "gain", it's moving in on what someone else has got. Expansion is just as much about "taking" as it is about "getting".

THAT is what the Big 12 would gain.

… I mean, WHY else is Rutgers in the B1G ???

The Longhorn network is never going to become the B12 network. The B12 members will never let that happen. Too much perceived power for UT. Some of the equipment and studios may migrate to the B12N but it will in no way resemble the LHN.

The B12 gained a lot by adding TCU. The B12 was down to 8 teams. If they didn't add 2 ASAP, the contract gets renegotiated. The B12 was not in a very good position for negotiating. They just lost 2 big brands (Nebraska, A&M) and 2 good mid-tier schools (Colorado and Missouri). There is no way they were getting anything close to the previous per-school payout with those losses.

I like Cincinnati but with Louisville, FSU, GT, and Clemson we have plenty of flags in SEC territory. With Pitt, Cuse, ND and Louisville, we have plenty of flags in B1G territory.

(05-21-2019 05:11 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 07:35 AM)esayem Wrote:  Really? The Big XII had Miami, Clemson, and FSU in their "plans". Also Notre Dame and Arkansas. It may be the "plan", but we know this doesn't mean the target has the same designs.

Everything I've seen in writing is speculative at best, which makes me believe the only thing ACC related to Texas is Austin Community College.

The ONLY benefit I see is tying their football team into joining. That begs the question, is the deal worth it to Texas? I say no. Even with a 9 game schedule in the Big Ten, Oklahoma NEEDS Texas; recruiting Texas is their lifeblood. So even without the Sooners in the Big XII, the idea of creating a pseudo-independent schedule just doesn't seem to offer much benefit to the Horns over their built-in Big XII schedule, that mark my words, will still include Oklahoma no matter where they end up.

The topic of the thread is "What's Next For Texas". I say they remain in the Big XII.

I admit that my posts were speculative. After all I am just a "random asian guy" with zero inside information.

Still, I am trying to make a rational prediction based on the public information.

With OU and another team out, the Big 12 would not be the Big 12 we know. It's going to be like the old Big East in its last days.

Among two options below, which would give more money to UT?

1. LHN plus portion of some media deal for the conference with following teams [Ok state, Baylor, TTU, ISU, K state, KU, WVU, Cincy, BYU, SMU (or any other three G5 teams)]
2. LHN plus partial ACCN deal

Which one would Texas choose?

I have to disagree. The Big East with Texas, TCU, WVU etc but not OU would be more like the Big East with Miami. The current Big XII with Texas and Oklahoma is like an imaginary Big East with Miami and Penn State.

(05-21-2019 05:14 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 10:56 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I won't be surprised at all if Texas remains in the Big 12 and the "dream" of a P4 with 16 schools each remains a message board fantasy.

I got a question for you. Why didn't ND stay in the watered down Big East? You could enjoy a complete football independence without any attachment whatsoever.

I agree with what Pervis wrote above, including it being a win/win for ND and the ACC.


The ACC deal gave ND just about everything it wanted, as follows:


-East Coast fanbase/media/prospective student exposure from Boston to Miami

--More Southeastern recruiting exposure

--Minor bowl access

--Help with November football scheduling

--Good home for basketball/baseball/Olympic sports

--Affiliated with a P5 conference

--Still a good "fit" with number of private schools.

--Full share of ACC Network profits (new plus)

--Football still independent with legal status cemented through 2036 (key goal)


Five ACC football games was not a big concession by ND from where I sit, since ND was already playing three Big Ten teams and a couple of Big East teams. The ACC games largely replaced those.

(05-21-2019 01:02 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 10:47 AM)Topcat Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 09:29 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 09:14 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I think Texas stays in BIG12... agree

Longhoen becomes BIG12 Network by 2026... maybe, but at minimum don't see LHN being renewed much, if any, longer than it has to by ESPN

I actually think that Arizona schools (ASU & Zona) may join BIG12 since Pac12 money will not be that good.. I don't. AZ schools like being with their west coast compatriots.

Or a combo like ASU & Houston or ASU and CINCY ... Highly unlikely. 1) AZ schools won't leave one another. 2) Big 12 gains nothing from adding Houston or Cincinnati...they will remain in AAC purgatory like UConn and the others.

What did the Big 12 have to "gain" by adding TCU? They still took them.

I will tell you what the Big 12 and ACC have to gain by taking UC. A flag planted right in the middle of both B1G and SEC territory.

Quiz time. What P5 would least like to see UC get in a P5 conference? I'll tell you. Ohio State.

Why? They dominate the B1G in football. If O$U isn't in the CFP, the B1G's likely not getting in and the Big 12 is. They don't want someone in their neighborhood helping themselves to some of their pie and getting in their way to an easy CFP invite.

So it's not so much abut a "gain", it's moving in on what someone else has got. Expansion is just as much about "taking" as it is about "getting".

THAT is what the Big 12 would gain.

… I mean, WHY else is Rutgers in the B1G ???

I’d rather have Tulane. Plant that flag on Bourbon Street.

In other words, anyone but Cincy despite your recent claim that you have nothing against UC specifically but are simply opposed to any ACC expansion regardless of the candidate. I think you might be able to justify your latest preference on the basis of Tulane's academics, because it's a fine institution, but the ACC is an athletic conference, isn't it?

1) Tulane is in the south

2) Tulane has superior academics

3) Louisiana only has one P5 team, so mainly I was just making a point to refute yours because I have absolutely no interest in Cincinnati being in the ACC. If it’s so logical to add the second team in Ohio, why is Cincinnati still in the G5? I will say both Tulane and Cincinnati were on the Big XII’s short list.

BTW, I love your basketball hire, I think you guys got yourself an upgrade. I’ve been preaching Brannen as a gem for quite some time.

(05-22-2019 10:19 AM)esayem Wrote:  1) Tulane is in the south

2) Tulane has superior academics

3) Louisiana only has one P5 team, so mainly I was just making a point to refute yours because I have absolutely no interest in Cincinnati being in the ACC. If it’s so logical to add the second team in Ohio, why is Cincinnati still in the G5? I will say both Tulane and Cincinnati were on the Big XII’s short list.

BTW, I love your basketball hire, I think you guys got yourself an upgrade. I’ve been preaching Brannen as a gem for quite some time.

Among G5 schools where there is only one P5:
Cincinnati > Tulane
Marshall > Tulane
UMass > Tulane (maybe)

Other relevant comparisons:
Temple > Tulane
UConn > Tulane
Average Joe's Gym > Tulane

(05-21-2019 01:31 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 10:47 AM)Topcat Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 09:29 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(05-21-2019 09:14 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I think Texas stays in BIG12... agree

Longhoen becomes BIG12 Network by 2026... maybe, but at minimum don't see LHN being renewed much, if any, longer than it has to by ESPN

I actually think that Arizona schools (ASU & Zona) may join BIG12 since Pac12 money will not be that good.. I don't. AZ schools like being with their west coast compatriots.

Or a combo like ASU & Houston or ASU and CINCY ... Highly unlikely. 1) AZ schools won't leave one another. 2) Big 12 gains nothing from adding Houston or Cincinnati...they will remain in AAC purgatory like UConn and the others.

What did the Big 12 have to "gain" by adding TCU? They still took them.

I will tell you what the Big 12 and ACC have to gain by taking UC. A flag planted right in the middle of both B1G and SEC territory.

Quiz time. What P5 would least like to see UC get in a P5 conference? I'll tell you. Ohio State.

Why? They dominate the B1G in football. If O$U isn't in the CFP, the B1G's likely not getting in and the Big 12 is. They don't want someone in their neighborhood helping themselves to some of their pie and getting in their way to an easy CFP invite.

So it's not so much abut a "gain", it's moving in on what someone else has got. Expansion is just as much about "taking" as it is about "getting".

THAT is what the Big 12 would gain.

… I mean, WHY else is Rutgers in the B1G ???

What did the Big XII have to gain by adding TCU????

The Big XII was super desperate when they added TCU ... they had TV partners paying them mega money, and suddenly, they were losing Missouri and Texas A & M on the heels of losing Nebraska and Colorado. The Big XII had some MAJOR tap dancing to do, to maintain the conference as it was ... TCU and West Virginia allowed them to do that.

Adding TCU allowed the Big XII to continue existing. They "gained" self preservation with that add.

OK, this doesn't count.

The question was what did they gain by adding TCU.

They could've added Sam Houston St. and done that. Yet everyone always acts like everyone that got in the... money (not power) conferences is this big "needle mover" and there must be something to be "gained" from them.

I think Texas and Oklahoma stay in the Big 12. I think they expand by two (BYU and UCF?) when their next contract is up, after kicking the tires on the Arizona schools.

The best thing the B12 has going for it financially is only splitting things 10 ways. Virtually every conference would make more per school if they could shed 2-4 schools, but they can't. The Big 12 can't add two more to their current contract without diluting it per school, because nobody they can add is a big enough deal to force an increase.

However, with the new contract, the increase will be large enough to "hide" two new shares. So if they go from a TV contract that pays $20M per school to a contract that pays $33M per school, nobody is going to bother looking under the hood that it could have been $36-37M if they'd stayed at 10.

I think they'll want to go to 12 for image purposes, expand the footprint and exposure, reduce schedule difficulty, and just normalize to what other conferences are doing. It will be worth a few million per school to do it, but they can't take an outright cut, it will have to come off the top of the next increase.

I still hope we get them and the Big 12 blows up or the PAC 12 gets them and Big 12 blows up.

Either way the boards will be on fire.

(05-22-2019 10:29 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-22-2019 10:19 AM)esayem Wrote:  1) Tulane is in the south

2) Tulane has superior academics

3) Louisiana only has one P5 team, so mainly I was just making a point to refute yours because I have absolutely no interest in Cincinnati being in the ACC. If it’s so logical to add the second team in Ohio, why is Cincinnati still in the G5? I will say both Tulane and Cincinnati were on the Big XII’s short list.

BTW, I love your basketball hire, I think you guys got yourself an upgrade. I’ve been preaching Brannen as a gem for quite some time.

Among G5 schools where there is only one P5:
Cincinnati > Tulane
Marshall > Tulane
UMass > Tulane (maybe)

Other relevant comparisons:
Temple > Tulane
UConn > Tulane
Average Joe's Gym > Tulane

*In a distinguished southern accent* (since bookend asterisks are the cool thing to do now)

I vehemently disagree, Hokie Mahk! Tulane brings the fer-tile recruiting ground of Louisiana, a built-in season ending SEC rivalry with The Louisiana State University, and a storied basketball program (Jerald Honeycutt, anyone).

I do declare, the Green Wave are welcomed here in this fine conference any day over a mongrel from the Ohio Rivah!