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so nick van exel or mark's boy, carleton head coach dave smart?

(03-25-2019 08:20 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 06:51 AM)CincyBro Wrote:  Just heard on WLW radio that both Cronin and Brannen of NKU may not be back next year, said Mick is ready to move on....we can only hope !!!!!!!!!

I am curious as to the source. Unless it were Chad Brendel or Dan Hoard, I really put no stock into it. With the exception of Mo Egger, most of the guys on WLW (on-air talent and guests) root for XU, UK or OSU.

Sounds like Bill Cunningham.

"Jenifer finished the season with the 12th best kenpom offensive rating in the country."

I don't want to bash JJ, but this proves all these metrics mean nothing! This line is 12th best in the country in anything???

Jenifer
8.6 pts
2.9 assists
1.7 rebounds
FG% and 3FG% 44
FT% 76

Good 3FG%, but low volume shooter. He averaged 0.7 TO, but he never pushed the ball nor generated any easy fast break points for the team. I'd like to know how many of his assists came from just passing the ball around the perimeter until someone shot a three.

As far as recruiting goes, an upgrade in conference would help a little, but his recruiting in the Big East wasn't even that great. I think he only had one Top 25 recruiting class at UC when we were in the Big East and that was #19 nationally with a 6 man class in 2007.

Overall roster talent is an issue and with the way we recruit and slowly bring guys along, I just don't see it ever really upgrading from where we are currently at. We are always going to have poor depth because of the way we develop guys. The ones on the bench aren't ready until they are upperclassmen and by the time they are ready to play they become starters and the guys replacing them on the bench are the same way -- projects and not ready for several years. Grad transfers are viewed as a no-no with this philosophy as well. Just a lot of dynamics that seem to hold us back and limit maximizing our talent level.

I mean why did we stop recruiting Tandy because we landed Curtis? Why not both if we had the room? Why were we against Symir Torrence reclassifying? There is no such thing as having too much talent at UC. Some strange decisions.

(03-25-2019 09:01 AM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  "Jenifer finished the season with the 12th best kenpom offensive rating in the country."

I don't want to bash JJ, but this proves all these metrics mean nothing! This line is 12th best in the country in anything???

Jenifer
8.6 pts
2.9 assists
1.7 rebounds
FG% and 3FG% 44
FT% 76

Good 3FG%, but low volume shooter. He averaged 0.7 TO, but he never pushed the ball nor generated any easy fast break points for the team. I'd like to know how many of his assists came from just passing the ball around the perimeter until someone shot a three.

12th best offensive rating doesn't mean he was the 12th best offensive player. He had a very limited usage rate, particularly for a guard that handles the ball. The point of the number was to show that he understood his role and was incredibly effective in it. He played within himself. That efficiency number combined with his low usage rate tells us a ton. I think UC really maximized the effectiveness of guys like Jenifer/Scott/Brooks which made them better on offense then I expected this year.

(03-25-2019 09:00 AM)chatcat Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:20 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 06:51 AM)CincyBro Wrote:  Just heard on WLW radio that both Cronin and Brannen of NKU may not be back next year, said Mick is ready to move on....we can only hope !!!!!!!!!

I am curious as to the source. Unless it were Chad Brendel or Dan Hoard, I really put no stock into it. With the exception of Mo Egger, most of the guys on WLW (on-air talent and guests) root for XU, UK or OSU.

Sounds like Bill Cunningham.

Any idea who said it? Was it Brian Coombs the XU homer? I bet it was him.

(03-25-2019 09:03 AM)Marcus Wrote:  As far as recruiting goes, an upgrade in conference would help a little, but his recruiting in the Big East wasn't even that great. I think he only had one Top 25 recruiting class at UC when we were in the Big East and that was #19 nationally with a 6 man class in 2007.

Overall roster talent is an issue and with the way we recruit and slowly bring guys along, I just don't see it ever really upgrading from where we are currently at. We are always going to have poor depth because of the way we develop guys. The ones on the bench aren't ready until they are upperclassmen and by the time they are ready to play they become starters and the guys replacing them on the bench are the same way -- projects and not ready for several years. Grad transfers are viewed as a no-no with this philosophy as well. Just a lot of dynamics that seem to hold us back and limit maximizing our talent level.

I mean why did we stop recruiting Tandy because we landed Curtis? Why not both if we had the room? Why were we against Symir Torrence reclassifying? There is no such thing as having too much talent at UC. Some strange decisions.

Agreed with the overall thought that recruiting has to improve. Most have to admit that switching conferences hurt Mick quite a bit.

He busted his chops as an assistant and head coach making contacts along the east coast. Now, he's in a conference that doesn't feature any games or contacts around there, save UCONN.

And jumping from Nike to Adidas and then to UA hasn't exactly helped on the AAU circuit.

That said, he gets paid a lot of money and coaches at a school that's not a Johnny-come-lately, so he needs to figure it out. Like right now.

(03-25-2019 08:28 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:02 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 07:58 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Last year was the best shot he'll ever have here. He knows it, we know it. Fans are only gonna get more and more impatient.

Next year will be a very good shot, perhaps as good or better then last year. That's why I'd think Mick would wait one more year if he is thinking of leaving (unless there's a certain school calling that he wants to go to). Watch his three multi-year starters graduate, win the AAC and AAC tournament and hopefully make some noise as a 2-5 seed. Then leave before the down year the following year.

I don't see it. Not saying it couldn't happen but there are way to many unknowns for next season to say it can will have as good or better a shot than last years team. The one known factor is Mick and we all know how successful he's been in the tournament regardless of line up.

mainly, bench scoring and bench production in general.

(03-25-2019 08:48 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:39 AM)Crewdogz Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 09:40 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I didn't read all of this, but just stepping back and looking at it - I marvel at this TodgeRodgian wall-o-text. It's a work of art really.

This is a solid, solid take by Mark. What UC needs more than anything is an upgrade in conference affiliation.

Huggins was successful in lower tier conference because he got talent that was great but short on character. Mick gets talent that is good as well as good character. It is hard to win recruiting wars against top conferences. The new media deal that will send many games to ESPN (+) will not help.

The drum that Ragpicker has beat about conference affiliation is real. I'm not sure we could get a coach that could get better talent without compromising character.

1st and 2nd round exits will remain the norm and will rightfully show that as a program we will be in the #17-40 range.

The talent Mick has recruited to the AAC is at least as good as what he recruited to the BE. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it is not as simple as better conference=better recruiting. You can't ignore the coach. Whom to sign with is a business decision for the players. They are thinking about who can get them to the NBA more than conference affiliation.

Mick's record of player development is not great, and that is at least as much a drag on recruiting as conference affiliation.

He's sent three guys to the NBA in the last 3 years, while over the same period Kelvin Sampson has sent 1. So I guess Kelvin Sampson can't recruit because of lack of player development either.

(03-25-2019 09:31 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:48 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:39 AM)Crewdogz Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 09:40 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I didn't read all of this, but just stepping back and looking at it - I marvel at this TodgeRodgian wall-o-text. It's a work of art really.

This is a solid, solid take by Mark. What UC needs more than anything is an upgrade in conference affiliation.

Huggins was successful in lower tier conference because he got talent that was great but short on character. Mick gets talent that is good as well as good character. It is hard to win recruiting wars against top conferences. The new media deal that will send many games to ESPN (+) will not help.

The drum that Ragpicker has beat about conference affiliation is real. I'm not sure we could get a coach that could get better talent without compromising character.

1st and 2nd round exits will remain the norm and will rightfully show that as a program we will be in the #17-40 range.

The talent Mick has recruited to the AAC is at least as good as what he recruited to the BE. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it is not as simple as better conference=better recruiting. You can't ignore the coach. Whom to sign with is a business decision for the players. They are thinking about who can get them to the NBA more than conference affiliation.

Mick's record of player development is not great, and that is at least as much a drag on recruiting as conference affiliation.

He's sent three guys to the NBA in the last 3 years, while over the same period Kelvin Sampson has sent 1. So I guess Kelvin Sampson can't recruit because of lack of player development either.

Sampson just now has his program going. I think comparing their overall record at each program is apples to oranges.

(03-25-2019 09:31 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:48 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:39 AM)Crewdogz Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 09:40 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I didn't read all of this, but just stepping back and looking at it - I marvel at this TodgeRodgian wall-o-text. It's a work of art really.

This is a solid, solid take by Mark. What UC needs more than anything is an upgrade in conference affiliation.

Huggins was successful in lower tier conference because he got talent that was great but short on character. Mick gets talent that is good as well as good character. It is hard to win recruiting wars against top conferences. The new media deal that will send many games to ESPN (+) will not help.

The drum that Ragpicker has beat about conference affiliation is real. I'm not sure we could get a coach that could get better talent without compromising character.

1st and 2nd round exits will remain the norm and will rightfully show that as a program we will be in the #17-40 range.

The talent Mick has recruited to the AAC is at least as good as what he recruited to the BE. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it is not as simple as better conference=better recruiting. You can't ignore the coach. Whom to sign with is a business decision for the players. They are thinking about who can get them to the NBA more than conference affiliation.

Mick's record of player development is not great, and that is at least as much a drag on recruiting as conference affiliation.

He's sent three guys to the NBA in the last 3 years, while over the same period Kelvin Sampson has sent 1. So I guess Kelvin Sampson can't recruit because of lack of player development either.

maybe one is a better coach than the other. maybe one needs better talent and the other doesn't

(03-25-2019 09:26 AM)coachpipe Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:28 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:02 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 07:58 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Last year was the best shot he'll ever have here. He knows it, we know it. Fans are only gonna get more and more impatient.

Next year will be a very good shot, perhaps as good or better then last year. That's why I'd think Mick would wait one more year if he is thinking of leaving (unless there's a certain school calling that he wants to go to). Watch his three multi-year starters graduate, win the AAC and AAC tournament and hopefully make some noise as a 2-5 seed. Then leave before the down year the following year.

I don't see it. Not saying it couldn't happen but there are way to many unknowns for next season to say it can will have as good or better a shot than last years team. The one known factor is Mick and we all know how successful he's been in the tournament regardless of line up.

mainly, bench scoring and bench production in general.

Which assumes you are going to get significant contributions from players who contributed very little this season. Logan Johnson would be the one that wouldn't surprise me if he was very solid next year but other than him it's pretty iffy.

(03-25-2019 09:37 AM)jarr Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 09:31 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:48 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:39 AM)Crewdogz Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 09:40 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I didn't read all of this, but just stepping back and looking at it - I marvel at this TodgeRodgian wall-o-text. It's a work of art really.

This is a solid, solid take by Mark. What UC needs more than anything is an upgrade in conference affiliation.

Huggins was successful in lower tier conference because he got talent that was great but short on character. Mick gets talent that is good as well as good character. It is hard to win recruiting wars against top conferences. The new media deal that will send many games to ESPN (+) will not help.

The drum that Ragpicker has beat about conference affiliation is real. I'm not sure we could get a coach that could get better talent without compromising character.

1st and 2nd round exits will remain the norm and will rightfully show that as a program we will be in the #17-40 range.

The talent Mick has recruited to the AAC is at least as good as what he recruited to the BE. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it is not as simple as better conference=better recruiting. You can't ignore the coach. Whom to sign with is a business decision for the players. They are thinking about who can get them to the NBA more than conference affiliation.

Mick's record of player development is not great, and that is at least as much a drag on recruiting as conference affiliation.

He's sent three guys to the NBA in the last 3 years, while over the same period Kelvin Sampson has sent 1. So I guess Kelvin Sampson can't recruit because of lack of player development either.

Sampson just now has his program going. I think comparing their overall record at each program is apples to oranges.

How about Greg Marshall? He's also sent 3 guys to the NBA in the last 3 years. Can he not recruit due to lack of player development either?

(03-25-2019 08:38 AM)skyblade Wrote:  Mick can go anytime he wants to a bigger conference school that will pay him more. There are plenty of bad power 5 schools that would gladly take a coach that can rebuild a program and get it to the NCAA tournament every year.

Absolutely, the P5 schools with way more money than us have been beating down Mick's door for years. That's why the last time he needed leverage for a big pay increase, he didn't have to look very far, only nearby... *squints eyes* ...UNLV?

I'll admit that Mick is a solid coach, but the wealthy P5 suitors haven't been lining up around the block... IMO, because he hasn't been worth more than what we were already paying him. But, due to his last increase being a few years old, and the eternal arms race of college athletics, his salary is apparently 49th now... so this offseason might actually see a program or two show interest in Mick. He is a solid coach, he has become more affordable in this offseason, and many programs with modest expectations would be happy to have him forever.

Texas A&M, Washington State, Cal, and Vanderbilt all have openings and would be thrilled to make the NCAAT most years with a clean program, and no risk of losing their coach to a blue blood or the NBA. I wouldn't be surprised if any of their ADs called Mick to ask if he's interested... though I would be even less surprised if it were Mick or Mick's agent that called them about the job.

(03-25-2019 09:31 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:48 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:39 AM)Crewdogz Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 09:40 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I didn't read all of this, but just stepping back and looking at it - I marvel at this TodgeRodgian wall-o-text. It's a work of art really.

This is a solid, solid take by Mark. What UC needs more than anything is an upgrade in conference affiliation.

Huggins was successful in lower tier conference because he got talent that was great but short on character. Mick gets talent that is good as well as good character. It is hard to win recruiting wars against top conferences. The new media deal that will send many games to ESPN (+) will not help.

The drum that Ragpicker has beat about conference affiliation is real. I'm not sure we could get a coach that could get better talent without compromising character.

1st and 2nd round exits will remain the norm and will rightfully show that as a program we will be in the #17-40 range.

The talent Mick has recruited to the AAC is at least as good as what he recruited to the BE. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it is not as simple as better conference=better recruiting. You can't ignore the coach. Whom to sign with is a business decision for the players. They are thinking about who can get them to the NBA more than conference affiliation.

Mick's record of player development is not great, and that is at least as much a drag on recruiting as conference affiliation.

He's sent three guys to the NBA in the last 3 years, while over the same period Kelvin Sampson has sent 1. So I guess Kelvin Sampson can't recruit because of lack of player development either.

The talent follows the coaches rep...not so much the program.

The Mick lovers here should be grateful that he's getting this opportunity to show his coaching chops. If you love something...let it go.

UC now gets to try something new.

Was simply the end of the news report, simply stated that insiders are saying that Mick has had enough.

(03-25-2019 09:49 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 09:37 AM)jarr Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 09:31 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:48 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(03-25-2019 08:39 AM)Crewdogz Wrote:  This is a solid, solid take by Mark. What UC needs more than anything is an upgrade in conference affiliation.

Huggins was successful in lower tier conference because he got talent that was great but short on character. Mick gets talent that is good as well as good character. It is hard to win recruiting wars against top conferences. The new media deal that will send many games to ESPN (+) will not help.

The drum that Ragpicker has beat about conference affiliation is real. I'm not sure we could get a coach that could get better talent without compromising character.

1st and 2nd round exits will remain the norm and will rightfully show that as a program we will be in the #17-40 range.

The talent Mick has recruited to the AAC is at least as good as what he recruited to the BE. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it is not as simple as better conference=better recruiting. You can't ignore the coach. Whom to sign with is a business decision for the players. They are thinking about who can get them to the NBA more than conference affiliation.

Mick's record of player development is not great, and that is at least as much a drag on recruiting as conference affiliation.

He's sent three guys to the NBA in the last 3 years, while over the same period Kelvin Sampson has sent 1. So I guess Kelvin Sampson can't recruit because of lack of player development either.

Sampson just now has his program going. I think comparing their overall record at each program is apples to oranges.

How about Greg Marshall? He's also sent 3 guys to the NBA in the last 3 years. Can he not recruit due to lack of player development either?

You do realize that Marshall has AT LEAST one transfer player sitting on his bench (Teddy Allen (aka "Teddy Buckets")) just waiting for eligibility to resume next year, right?

Wichita State next season is going to be a substantially BETTER team than Wichita State this year...

(03-25-2019 10:15 AM)CincyBro Wrote:  Was simply the end of the news report, simply stated that insiders are saying that Mick has had enough.

The feeling is mutual.

Doesn't mean squat, though.

(03-25-2019 10:15 AM)CincyBro Wrote:  Was simply the end of the news report, simply stated that insiders are saying that Mick has had enough.

Enough of what? What have we not provided him?

(03-25-2019 10:15 AM)CincyBro Wrote:  Was simply the end of the news report, simply stated that insiders are saying that Mick has had enough.

Had enough of what? Losing in the first round? Fans wanting more out of him than just being happy to be here?