The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

If good defense helps offense then how does good offense not help your defense?

Defense is not the ******* problem with this program.

The Bearcats scored 1.07 points per possession yesterday. Only 4 teams have scored at least 1.07 points per possession and lost so far in the tournament. The Bearcats allowed 1.18 points per possession. Only 1 team has allowed that and won so far in the tournament. They were good on offense yesterday and bad on defense

(03-23-2019 09:00 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  If good defense helps offense then how does good offense not help your defense?

Defense is not the ******* problem with this program.

No but it was the problem with this team. While it was still slightly ahead of the offense it was the worst defense of our NCAA run. If we had the traditional top 15 defense we normally have we aren't playing in 7-10 game and we likely have a chance to advance.

Given what we lost from last year for the offense to not drop off in efficiency was extremely unexpected.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

(03-23-2019 09:20 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The Bearcats scored 1.07 points per possession yesterday. Only 4 teams have scored at least 1.07 points per possession and lost so far in the tournament. The Bearcats allowed 1.18 points per possession. Only 1 team has allowed that and won so far in the tournament. They were good on offense yesterday and bad on defense

That sounds about right to me. I"m not sure how another poster interprets that analysis as an "excuse". Although I would add that it obviously is a small sample size as far as drawing broad conclusions moving forward - especially into a new season. Sometimes a guy almost can't miss no matter who's defending him, sometimes the same guy can't hit a thing. And of course officiating can play a huge factor both pro and con, in how a team plays any given game.

Some years back, Bud-Light had a really funny advertising campaign called "Real Men of Genius." One of those "Real Men of Genius" was the "Former Pro Athlete Sports Announcer Guy" who tells us things about sports that we would not otherwise know like "The team that scores the most points, wins."

That's what I'm flashing back to right now.

"The team that scores the most wins."

Such a basic part of the game.
Iowa scored 79 points, UC scored 70 points.

You can dick with that all you want, but "The team that scores the most points wins." You can say "Well that's because our defense let them score 79..." or you can say "Well that's because our offense failed to score 80." But at the end of the day, the "Team that scored the most points won." And that's Iowa, not Cincinnati. To Mark's point, that it was a "Defensive Failure," well that may be true but maybe UC's lack of scoring allowed Iowa to put the pressure on the UC Defense.

Either way, the simple fact is that "The team that scores the most points wins." And UC did not "score enough points to win." Sorry.

(03-23-2019 04:54 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  “We would be a better team if we recruited more talent and devised better game plans.”

Hey guys - as much as we love UC - recruiting to Cincinnati is not like recruiting to the promised land. The AAC is not a nationally recognized power conference. Until this year Mick was recruiting to a TBD temporary facility.

Some here think unless we are better than Duke we stink. To those - reality can be tough. Reality needs to be embraced - as difficult for some as that might be.

I personally think Mick has played the hand he has been dealt well. That said he does need to find a way to defend the 3.

...so we should be happy with sucking in March....

i too champion the cause of slashing. opens the floor up, gets folks to the line. next year it is my hope that keith will and logan create many practice shots for trevor. eliel only needs to play solid defense and clean the glass. a block a game would be nice. diarra could be a nightmare. the depth is untapped, but it's there

(03-23-2019 09:20 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The Bearcats scored 1.07 points per possession yesterday. Only 4 teams have scored at least 1.07 points per possession and lost so far in the tournament. The Bearcats allowed 1.18 points per possession. Only 1 team has allowed that and won so far in the tournament. They were good on offense yesterday and bad on defense

I completely agree Mark. This game we were good enough on O to win it. We weren't good enough on D. Do the guys who say, just outscore your opponent also think a football team that loses 55-42 just needed to score more? Defense is half of the game, if you don't stop your opponent from scoring you aren't going to win. Overall, we need to be better on both ends of the court then we were this year if we want a good shot at a high seed and making a tournament run.

(03-24-2019 06:52 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(03-23-2019 09:20 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The Bearcats scored 1.07 points per possession yesterday. Only 4 teams have scored at least 1.07 points per possession and lost so far in the tournament. The Bearcats allowed 1.18 points per possession. Only 1 team has allowed that and won so far in the tournament. They were good on offense yesterday and bad on defense

I completely agree Mark. This game we were good enough on O to win it. We weren't good enough on D. Do the guys who say, just outscore your opponent also think a football team that loses 55-42 just needed to score more? Defense is half of the game, if you don't stop your opponent from scoring you aren't going to win. Overall, we need to be better on both ends of the court then we were this year if we want a good shot at a high seed and making a tournament run.

A lot of those 3's were contested and still went in. Tall shooters with a touch are very difficult to defend.

You can only counterbalance that with more scoring options.

Teams win the vast majority of their games when they score at the rate UC scored Friday. Teams rarely win when they allow the other team to score at the rate Iowa did Friday. It's like if UC gave up .8 points per possession but only scored .7 I wouldn't blame the defense. Our liabilities all year on d we're 3 point d and defensive rebounding. No surprise we lost giving up too many 3s.

(03-24-2019 08:29 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Teams win the vast majority of their games when they score at the rate UC scored Friday. Teams rarely win when they allow the other team to score at the rate Iowa did Friday. It's like if UC gave up .8 points per possession but only scored .7 I wouldn't blame the defense. Our liabilities all year on d we're 3 point d and defensive rebounding. No surprise we lost giving up too many 3s.

And 3 pt D was a problem all year. Not a new problem.

(03-24-2019 08:17 AM)converrl Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 06:52 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(03-23-2019 09:20 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The Bearcats scored 1.07 points per possession yesterday. Only 4 teams have scored at least 1.07 points per possession and lost so far in the tournament. The Bearcats allowed 1.18 points per possession. Only 1 team has allowed that and won so far in the tournament. They were good on offense yesterday and bad on defense

I completely agree Mark. This game we were good enough on O to win it. We weren't good enough on D. Do the guys who say, just outscore your opponent also think a football team that loses 55-42 just needed to score more? Defense is half of the game, if you don't stop your opponent from scoring you aren't going to win. Overall, we need to be better on both ends of the court then we were this year if we want a good shot at a high seed and making a tournament run.

A lot of those 3's were contested and still went in. Tall shooters with a touch are very difficult to defend.

You can only counterbalance that with more scoring options.

We gave up plenty of wide open looks. They did hit some tough 3's, but most of their threes weren't tough. Once you let a team start rolling with some easy shots, it seems like they get better at making the hard ones. Not having Jenifer and Broome next year should make it less difficult to defend tall shooters. Having a 6'5" guy closing out instead of a maybe 6-foot guy will make a difference.

Everyone likes to think that there are just a crop of 50% three point shooters sitting around waiting to come to UC. It's a lame fantasy that, frankly, suggests limited knowledge of basketball.

We weren't a terrible shooting team this year. This is kind of the old Houston one Sunday not next Sundayscena rio. Iowa was 1/16 against Michigan and what 55% Friday? I think against certain teams our defensive strategy is more in play than the shooting issue. You have to man a team with slower good shooting athletes plain and simple. Anyone want to bet we beat Iowa in December in Chicago this year? Something tells me we see little of that zone up there. At the end of the day Cronin didn't adjust well or at all in the case of the press, and it lost him the game. It's on him.

Basketball isn't like football. Though the five players on the basketball court at any given time may have distinct roles, each should be adept at both offense and defense. The two skill-sets aren't mutually exclusive, and there are people out there who fit the bill.

The trick is how to identify, recruit, and sell them on choosing our program over others.

(03-24-2019 09:42 AM)dsquare Wrote:  We weren't a terrible shooting team this year. This is kind of the old Houston one Sunday not next Sundayscena rio. Iowa was 1/16 against Michigan and what 55% Friday? I think against certain teams our defensive strategy is more in play than the shooting issue. You have to man a team with slower good shooting athletes plain and simple. Anyone want to bet we beat Iowa in December in Chicago this year? Something tells me we see little of that zone up there. At the end of the day Cronin didn't adjust well or at all in the case of the press, and it lost him the game. It's on him.

Yep. In game adjustments or lack thereof by both coaches made the difference in outcome.
Won it for McCafferty.
Lost it for Cronin.

(03-24-2019 09:48 AM)colohank Wrote:  Basketball isn't like football. Though the five players on the basketball court at any given time may have distinct roles, each should be adept at both offense and defense. The two skill-sets aren't mutually exclusive, and there are people out there who fit the bill.

The trick is how to identify, recruit, and sell them on choosing our program over others.

If UC's recruiting emphasis is on getting the best athletes (that's what we've been told) they are likely passing on guys that have a more developed offensive skill set who are good but not the best athletes.

There were a couple of guys on Iowa's roster that would've been nice to see in red and black that would never have been recruited by UC.

Mick needs to get away from the matchup zone against 3 point shooting teams. Period.

(03-24-2019 09:53 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 09:48 AM)colohank Wrote:  Basketball isn't like football. Though the five players on the basketball court at any given time may have distinct roles, each should be adept at both offense and defense. The two skill-sets aren't mutually exclusive, and there are people out there who fit the bill.

The trick is how to identify, recruit, and sell them on choosing our program over others.

If UC's recruiting emphasis is on getting the best athletes (that's what we've been told) they are likely passing on guys that have a more developed offensive skill set who are good but not the best athletes.

There were a couple of guys on Iowa's roster that would've been nice to see in red and black that would never have been recruited by UC.

UC's recruiting focus should be simply get the best "basketball players", and their resources should be spent on OH, KY, IN players.

(03-23-2019 10:15 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  Some years back, Bud-Light had a really funny advertising campaign called "Real Men of Genius." One of those "Real Men of Genius" was the "Former Pro Athlete Sports Announcer Guy" who tells us things about sports that we would not otherwise know like "The team that scores the most points, wins."

That's what I'm flashing back to right now.

"The team that scores the most wins."

Such a basic part of the game.
Iowa scored 79 points, UC scored 70 points.

You can dick with that all you want, but "The team that scores the most points wins." You can say "Well that's because our defense let them score 79..." or you can say "Well that's because our offense failed to score 80." But at the end of the day, the "Team that scored the most points won." And that's Iowa, not Cincinnati. To Mark's point, that it was a "Defensive Failure," well that may be true but maybe UC's lack of scoring allowed Iowa to put the pressure on the UC Defense.

Either way, the simple fact is that "The team that scores the most points wins." And UC did not "score enough points to win." Sorry.

(03-23-2019 10:15 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  Some years back, Bud-Light had a really funny advertising campaign called "Real Men of Genius." One of those "Real Men of Genius" was the "Former Pro Athlete Sports Announcer Guy" who tells us things about sports that we would not otherwise know like "The team that scores the most points, wins."

That's what I'm flashing back to right now.

"The team that scores the most wins."

Such a basic part of the game.
Iowa scored 79 points, UC scored 70 points.

You can dick with that all you want, but "The team that scores the most points wins." You can say "Well that's because our defense let them score 79..." or you can say "Well that's because our offense failed to score 80." But at the end of the day, the "Team that scored the most points won." And that's Iowa, not Cincinnati. To Mark's point, that it was a "Defensive Failure," well that may be true but maybe UC's lack of scoring allowed Iowa to put the pressure on the UC Defense.

Either way, the simple fact is that "The team that scores the most points wins." And UC did not "score enough points to win." Sorry.

For a "Real Man of Genius", you've neglected to note that Memphis ranked first in the AAC in points per game at 80.1, good for 29th in NCAA. What do they have to show for it? They couldn't outscore the issues caused by their defensive inefficiency on a regular basis.