Wow... can't say I understand this move much.


https://wtkr.com/2019/03/13/william-mary...ny-shaver/

(03-13-2019 03:05 PM)Gary Miller Wrote:  Wow... can't say I understand this move much.


https://wtkr.com/2019/03/13/william-mary...ny-shaver/

Wow! That was unexpected

I think this is going to wind up being a "grass isn't always greener move" they will regret!

Just saw it on the ESPN ticker.

Has to be the most ill advised coaching change in the CAA since UNCW pushed out Brad Brownell.


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The timing makes no sense. Do the people in charge realize Nathan Knight is good enough to get paid quite nicely to play basketball, whether it be Europe or in America. He's as good as gone unless they make a real slam dunk hire. Wouldn't be surprised if their prized freshman transfers out too.

I'm guessing they have someone in mind already

(03-13-2019 03:33 PM)82hawk Wrote:  I'm guessing they have someone in mind already

You would think but I think Gary Miller is right... now they’re in a situation where they have to wonder if their star players and incoming recruits stick around.


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Disgraceful. All he did was be their most successful coach in school history, while being hamstrung by the highest academic standards of any public school in the country and a miniscule budget. He had a ton of talent coming back next year and the program on the whole was on the upswing. He's been a top 2 or 3 coach in this league pretty much every year, even dating back to the days of Larranaga, Shaka Smart, etc.

There's a lot of scenarios where this could go very, very wrong for W&M.

Is there ever good timing for this kind of move?

At NU, we let go our men's hockey coach in 2011 and lost two big recruits in the process (and by big, I mean BIG like one would've been the best player we've ever had by far - Johnny Gaudreau). Anyway, at the time fans were pretty mad. Our coach had turned around our program and it seemed better than ever before. Well our new coach we brought in has turned us into the best our program has ever been. We suffered for two seasons while we coped with the loss of players but we are higher now than ever before.

Now I'm not saying that this is the right move, and their future depends a lot on who they bring in. I just want to make the point that it's almost never the right time to fire someone in these types of situations. (I also want to wish W&M fans well and praise Shaver but I'll let things cool down on their board first)

(03-13-2019 03:47 PM)SomebodyToLove Wrote:  Is there ever good timing for this kind of move?

At NU, we let go our men's hockey coach in 2011 and lost two big recruits in the process (and by big, I mean BIG like one would've been the best player we've ever had by far - Johnny Gaudreau). Anyway, at the time fans were pretty mad. Our coach had turned around our program and it seemed better than ever before. Well our new coach we brought in has turned us into the best our program has ever been. We suffered for two seasons while we coped with the loss of players but we are higher now than ever before.

Now I'm not saying that this is the right move, and their future depends a lot on who they bring in. I just want to make the point that it's almost never the right time to fire someone in these types of situations. (I also want to wish W&M fans well and praise Shaver but I'll let things cool down on their board first)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t NU always had a somewhat decent hockey program? I’m thinking the two are apples to oranges.

For what it’s worth, I went ahead and wished WM well. I think it does them good to know that other CAA fans had a lot of respect for Shaver and wish the best for WM. They’re a good school and have been a valuable member of this conference. Their fans deserve better. Way better.


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(03-13-2019 03:56 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:47 PM)SomebodyToLove Wrote:  Is there ever good timing for this kind of move?

At NU, we let go our men's hockey coach in 2011 and lost two big recruits in the process (and by big, I mean BIG like one would've been the best player we've ever had by far - Johnny Gaudreau). Anyway, at the time fans were pretty mad. Our coach had turned around our program and it seemed better than ever before. Well our new coach we brought in has turned us into the best our program has ever been. We suffered for two seasons while we coped with the loss of players but we are higher now than ever before.

Now I'm not saying that this is the right move, and their future depends a lot on who they bring in. I just want to make the point that it's almost never the right time to fire someone in these types of situations. (I also want to wish W&M fans well and praise Shaver but I'll let things cool down on their board first)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t NU always had a somewhat decent hockey program? I’m thinking the two are apples to oranges.

For what it’s worth, I went ahead and wished WM well. I think it does them good to know that other CAA fans had a lot of respect for Shaver and wish the best for WM. They’re a good school and have been a valuable member of this conference. Their fans deserve better. Way better.


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And unlike W&M basketball, Northeastern actually invests real resources into its hockey program. W&M doesn't do the same for basketball.

If that changes going forward, than sure, we can say this move makes sense. But if it remains status quo and they hope for better results, it'll be a Brownell to Benny Moss situation all over again.

(03-13-2019 03:58 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:56 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:47 PM)SomebodyToLove Wrote:  Is there ever good timing for this kind of move?

At NU, we let go our men's hockey coach in 2011 and lost two big recruits in the process (and by big, I mean BIG like one would've been the best player we've ever had by far - Johnny Gaudreau). Anyway, at the time fans were pretty mad. Our coach had turned around our program and it seemed better than ever before. Well our new coach we brought in has turned us into the best our program has ever been. We suffered for two seasons while we coped with the loss of players but we are higher now than ever before.

Now I'm not saying that this is the right move, and their future depends a lot on who they bring in. I just want to make the point that it's almost never the right time to fire someone in these types of situations. (I also want to wish W&M fans well and praise Shaver but I'll let things cool down on their board first)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t NU always had a somewhat decent hockey program? I’m thinking the two are apples to oranges.

For what it’s worth, I went ahead and wished WM well. I think it does them good to know that other CAA fans had a lot of respect for Shaver and wish the best for WM. They’re a good school and have been a valuable member of this conference. Their fans deserve better. Way better.


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And unlike W&M basketball, Northeastern actually invests real resources into its hockey program. W&M doesn't do the same for basketball.

If that changes going forward, than sure, we can say this move makes sense. But if it remains status quo and they hope for better results, it'll be a Brownell to Benny Moss situation all over again.

UNCW did have one good season under Moss with Brownell’s players. If WM is lucky enough to retain all their players (especially Knight and Audige) and recruits coming next year than on paper they should compete for a championship. Which further makes the firing oddly timed. Numerous Tribe fans on their board are stating its due to a desire for their AD to put her name on the map. Which kinda makes sense, with some big IFs.

1. IF all returning players return.
2. IF all recruits stick around for a different coach (less likely than #1).
3. IF they can win it all in the next 1-2 years.

If all that happens she’ll be known as an AD who brought in her “guy” to win it all at WM and get them to the dance for the first time in school history. Having that on her resume would surely boost her national profile.


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(03-13-2019 03:56 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:47 PM)SomebodyToLove Wrote:  Is there ever good timing for this kind of move?

At NU, we let go our men's hockey coach in 2011 and lost two big recruits in the process (and by big, I mean BIG like one would've been the best player we've ever had by far - Johnny Gaudreau). Anyway, at the time fans were pretty mad. Our coach had turned around our program and it seemed better than ever before. Well our new coach we brought in has turned us into the best our program has ever been. We suffered for two seasons while we coped with the loss of players but we are higher now than ever before.

Now I'm not saying that this is the right move, and their future depends a lot on who they bring in. I just want to make the point that it's almost never the right time to fire someone in these types of situations. (I also want to wish W&M fans well and praise Shaver but I'll let things cool down on their board first)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t NU always had a somewhat decent hockey program? I’m thinking the two are apples to oranges.

For what it’s worth, I went ahead and wished WM well. I think it does them good to know that other CAA fans had a lot of respect for Shaver and wish the best for WM. They’re a good school and have been a valuable member of this conference. Their fans deserve better. Way better.


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Other than the 80's and a couple other seasons, no we actually haven't been all that good in our history. My example wasn't to compare apples to apples anyway since our coach wasn't necessarily fired for performance, it was a little more complicated than that.

Their move took me by surprise, but I can understand the rationale of not wanting to wait.

(03-13-2019 04:24 PM)SomebodyToLove Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:56 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:47 PM)SomebodyToLove Wrote:  Is there ever good timing for this kind of move?

At NU, we let go our men's hockey coach in 2011 and lost two big recruits in the process (and by big, I mean BIG like one would've been the best player we've ever had by far - Johnny Gaudreau). Anyway, at the time fans were pretty mad. Our coach had turned around our program and it seemed better than ever before. Well our new coach we brought in has turned us into the best our program has ever been. We suffered for two seasons while we coped with the loss of players but we are higher now than ever before.

Now I'm not saying that this is the right move, and their future depends a lot on who they bring in. I just want to make the point that it's almost never the right time to fire someone in these types of situations. (I also want to wish W&M fans well and praise Shaver but I'll let things cool down on their board first)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t NU always had a somewhat decent hockey program? I’m thinking the two are apples to oranges.

For what it’s worth, I went ahead and wished WM well. I think it does them good to know that other CAA fans had a lot of respect for Shaver and wish the best for WM. They’re a good school and have been a valuable member of this conference. Their fans deserve better. Way better.


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Other than the 80's and a couple other seasons, no we actually haven't been all that good in our history. My example wasn't to compare apples to apples anyway since our coach wasn't necessarily fired for performance, it was a little more complicated than that.

Their move took me by surprise, but I can understand the rationale of not wanting to wait.

Gotcha. Welp. Now we all sit back and watch the fallout.


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Didnt JMU do the same thing just recently? Didnt work out too well for them. The press release said they were going to conduct a national search. It's not a desirable location, and while it's a good school, the program doesnt have a history it can sell. Facilities arent the greatest and recruiting is tough due to high standards. I just dont see the upside in making a change when Shaver has done a very good job

(03-13-2019 04:53 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Didnt JMU do the same thing just recently? Didnt work out too well for them. The press release said they were going to conduct a national search. It's not a desirable location, and while it's a good school, the program doesnt have a history it can sell. Facilities arent the greatest and recruiting is tough due to high standards. I just dont see the upside in making a change when Shaver has done a very good job

Not only has he done a good job, but consider this...

He was returning ALL FIVE starters next year and had some good recruits coming in (Cameron Brown being one of them). A bunch of Tribe fans had next March circled on their calendar.

They have to get this hire right or there’s a big time possibility of losing recruits and a decent possibility of talented players like Knight and Audige transferring. I wouldn’t want to be a WM fan today. Makes zero sense.


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(03-13-2019 04:19 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:58 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:56 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:47 PM)SomebodyToLove Wrote:  Is there ever good timing for this kind of move?

At NU, we let go our men's hockey coach in 2011 and lost two big recruits in the process (and by big, I mean BIG like one would've been the best player we've ever had by far - Johnny Gaudreau). Anyway, at the time fans were pretty mad. Our coach had turned around our program and it seemed better than ever before. Well our new coach we brought in has turned us into the best our program has ever been. We suffered for two seasons while we coped with the loss of players but we are higher now than ever before.

Now I'm not saying that this is the right move, and their future depends a lot on who they bring in. I just want to make the point that it's almost never the right time to fire someone in these types of situations. (I also want to wish W&M fans well and praise Shaver but I'll let things cool down on their board first)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t NU always had a somewhat decent hockey program? I’m thinking the two are apples to oranges.

For what it’s worth, I went ahead and wished WM well. I think it does them good to know that other CAA fans had a lot of respect for Shaver and wish the best for WM. They’re a good school and have been a valuable member of this conference. Their fans deserve better. Way better.


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And unlike W&M basketball, Northeastern actually invests real resources into its hockey program. W&M doesn't do the same for basketball.

If that changes going forward, than sure, we can say this move makes sense. But if it remains status quo and they hope for better results, it'll be a Brownell to Benny Moss situation all over again.

UNCW did have one good season under Moss with Brownell’s players. If WM is lucky enough to retain all their players (especially Knight and Audige) and recruits coming next year than on paper they should compete for a championship. Which further makes the firing oddly timed. Numerous Tribe fans on their board are stating its due to a desire for their AD to put her name on the map. Which kinda makes sense, with some big IFs.

1. IF all returning players return.
2. IF all recruits stick around for a different coach (less likely than #1).
3. IF they can win it all in the next 1-2 years.

If all that happens she’ll be known as an AD who brought in her “guy” to win it all at WM and get them to the dance for the first time in school history. Having that on her resume would surely boost her national profile.


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"This damned AD got us to our first ever NCAA basketball tournment just so she could leave...DAMN HER(shaking fist)!!

An AD comes in a runs off a successful coach...stop me if.youve heard this before

(03-13-2019 04:58 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 04:19 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:58 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:56 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 03:47 PM)SomebodyToLove Wrote:  Is there ever good timing for this kind of move?

At NU, we let go our men's hockey coach in 2011 and lost two big recruits in the process (and by big, I mean BIG like one would've been the best player we've ever had by far - Johnny Gaudreau). Anyway, at the time fans were pretty mad. Our coach had turned around our program and it seemed better than ever before. Well our new coach we brought in has turned us into the best our program has ever been. We suffered for two seasons while we coped with the loss of players but we are higher now than ever before.

Now I'm not saying that this is the right move, and their future depends a lot on who they bring in. I just want to make the point that it's almost never the right time to fire someone in these types of situations. (I also want to wish W&M fans well and praise Shaver but I'll let things cool down on their board first)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t NU always had a somewhat decent hockey program? I’m thinking the two are apples to oranges.

For what it’s worth, I went ahead and wished WM well. I think it does them good to know that other CAA fans had a lot of respect for Shaver and wish the best for WM. They’re a good school and have been a valuable member of this conference. Their fans deserve better. Way better.


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And unlike W&M basketball, Northeastern actually invests real resources into its hockey program. W&M doesn't do the same for basketball.

If that changes going forward, than sure, we can say this move makes sense. But if it remains status quo and they hope for better results, it'll be a Brownell to Benny Moss situation all over again.

UNCW did have one good season under Moss with Brownell’s players. If WM is lucky enough to retain all their players (especially Knight and Audige) and recruits coming next year than on paper they should compete for a championship. Which further makes the firing oddly timed. Numerous Tribe fans on their board are stating its due to a desire for their AD to put her name on the map. Which kinda makes sense, with some big IFs.

1. IF all returning players return.
2. IF all recruits stick around for a different coach (less likely than #1).
3. IF they can win it all in the next 1-2 years.

If all that happens she’ll be known as an AD who brought in her “guy” to win it all at WM and get them to the dance for the first time in school history. Having that on her resume would surely boost her national profile.


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"This damned AD got us to our first ever NCAA basketball tournment just so she could leave...DAMN HER(shaking fist)!!

I see your point there.

Scenario: What if he/she (why not it’s 2019) wins with Shaver’s guys in year one, she gets a P5 AD gig a couple years after that and in the seasons to follow the NCAAT year the team craps the bed (not dissimilar too much from our Moss years). Was it worth it?

Obviously part of the answer to that would lie in how successful the tournament appearance was as well.

But, in your opinion... would it be worth it?


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