(02-24-2019 11:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  Cincinnati is not in the heart of Big 10 country, it’s on the fringe. Adding a school in the outskirts of Ohio does nothing in itself. I don’t understand why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

To answer the original question of the thread, no, the ACC will not expand soon. Not with a bunch of Big XII rejects.

On a side note, I’m surprised at the lack of progress in Tulane basketball. They were tough throughout the 90’s, and I thought they’d get it going with Dunleavy.

Especially with a fantastic last name like that !!

(02-24-2019 11:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  Cincinnati is not in the heart of Big 10 country, it’s on the fringe. Adding a school in the outskirts of Ohio does nothing in itself. I don’t understand why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

To answer the original question of the thread, no, the ACC will not expand soon. Not with a bunch of Big XII rejects.

On a side note, I’m surprised at the lack of progress in Tulane basketball. They were tough throughout the 90’s, and I thought they’d get it going with Dunleavy.

Perhaps you didn't hear me.

Cincinnati IS in B1G country. What the "heart" of that is is unknown. I don't know... may be somewhere in Iowa?

As I said, Cincinnati has as good HS football as just about anywhere. Michigan, O$U, MSU, PSU and ND all recruit there hard.

Give these guys a reason to stay home and we're back in the game like '09 when we were ranked 3rd and one second from the BCS championship game.

But by all means don't let any of these facts deter your thinking.

(02-24-2019 09:05 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 07:02 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 05:49 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  The Tulane stuff is patently hilarious. They are an absolute disaster in the AAC.

Yep. I read it on this board and over on the CR alignment forum. Tulane is a joke. They get 10k people in the seats for football and 1500 for hoops (both number might be inflated). Nobody in New Orleans give a rat’s behind. Would there be a bump when Clemson comes to town or Duke for basketball? Maybe, but probably not much and not on a nightly basis. It is a small school and most of the alums don’t stay in town after they graduate.

There are several other schools with would add a lot more

Other ACC schools and travelers don't give a rats ass about what people in New Orleans think about Tulane. We think about a trip TO New Orleans. That is the attraction.

My sources, and I trust them explicitly, assure me that New Orleans will allow people to visit their city any time, even if they are not in the same athletic conference. Armed with that inside info, I conclude that inviting a school to join your conference so you can visit them every other year ranks right below excellent academics as a reason for extending an invitation.

(02-24-2019 04:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Setting aside whether or not you're right, who cares about academic - the ACC is an athletic conference.

Research money makes CFP money look like peanuts. And right now there is very little research dead weight in the conference. Even little ole Wake does 3D printing of heart tissue.

Tulane is a better geographic fit. I don't think anybody is debating that so far.
Tulane is a better academic fit. Same story.
We'll call the market a wash with Houston, but since it's more geographically congruent with the existing footprint edge to Tulane.
But Houston does have way better on the field success, though not much of particular account recently aside from some Tom Herman years.

Tulane is in New Orleans and bridges Texas to the rest of the ACC while opening a major new market and breaking up the SEC West's shut out of the western half of the deep south. In an ideal world, Houston would merely be an athletic fit. Another Louisville. I'd prefer the complete fit, even if it is a fixer upper.

You can bootstrap even a completely hopeless athletic department at the highest levels of D1 competition with about $500,000,000. It takes WAY more than $500m to take a glorified JuCo and turn it into an academic institution worthy of respect.

Would I extend Houston or Tulane an ACC invite? No. But if in this stupid scenario I *have* to take Texas ... I'm going to at least see if Tulane can raise a few hundred mil and then take them to bridge the geographic divide and fire one across the bow of the SEC .... and maybe even gin up Fuhrer Mickey to do some in house consolidation.

(02-25-2019 07:48 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 11:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  Cincinnati is not in the heart of Big 10 country, it’s on the fringe. Adding a school in the outskirts of Ohio does nothing in itself. I don’t understand why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

To answer the original question of the thread, no, the ACC will not expand soon. Not with a bunch of Big XII rejects.

On a side note, I’m surprised at the lack of progress in Tulane basketball. They were tough throughout the 90’s, and I thought they’d get it going with Dunleavy.

Perhaps you didn't hear me.

Cincinnati IS in B1G country. What the "heart" of that is is unknown. I don't know... may be somewhere in Iowa?

As I said, Cincinnati has as good HS football as just about anywhere. Michigan, O$U, MSU, PSU and ND all recruit there hard.

Give these guys a reason to stay home and we're back in the game like '09 when we were ranked 3rd and one second from the BCS championship game.

But by all means don't let any of these facts deter your thinking.

So Cincinnati will poach Notre Dame’s coach and then get blown out by the first real team they play, just like ‘09? Cool.

Why not let Louisville and Pitt get some of those players without the added competition? Notre Dame being good is also alright by the ACC. No need to give your school a lifeboat so their program can improve and make the current programs in the conference have more competition.

If Texas is joining why add anybody else ? I don’t think Texas is joining so the pool for spot 16 should be Cincinnati or West Virginia. Either would work fine but it would just depend on the circumstances.

(02-25-2019 09:35 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Tulane is a better geographic fit. I don't think anybody is debating that so far.

If you mean "better geographic fit than Houston", I agree BARELY. If that's truly important, then add Cincinnati and West Virginia.

(02-25-2019 09:35 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Tulane is a better academic fit. Same story.

Maybe, but again, I just don't care.

(02-25-2019 09:35 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  We'll call the market a wash with Houston, but since it's more geographically congruent with the existing footprint edge to Tulane.

New Orleans vs. Houston is NOT a wash when it comes to market. Houston is #3 nationally, IIRC.

(02-25-2019 09:35 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  But Houston does have way better on the field success, though not much of particular account recently aside from some Tom Herman years.

Unless you count Kevin Sumlin a few years before, or Jack Pardee and John Jenkins back in the 90's? And the reason those last 2 are relevant is because that's what Houston football CAN be if it's in a P5 conference. As for Houston basketball, I have 3 words: "Phi Slamma Jamma". OK, 4 more words: "College GameDay March 2nd".

(02-25-2019 09:35 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Tulane is in New Orleans and bridges Texas to the rest of the ACC while opening a major new market and breaking up the SEC West's shut out of the western half of the deep south.

Um, Tulane may be closer, but it does NOT "bridge" Texas to the rest of the ACC unless you know of a way to dispose of Alabama and Mississippi... and if you can do THAT:

(02-25-2019 09:35 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  In an ideal world, Houston would merely be an athletic fit. Another Louisville. I'd prefer the complete fit, even if it is a fixer upper.

You can bootstrap even a completely hopeless athletic department at the highest levels of D1 competition with about $500,000,000. It takes WAY more than $500m to take a glorified JuCo and turn it into an academic institution worthy of respect.

1. I like having Louisville.
2. Where do you plan to get half a billions dollars?

(02-25-2019 09:35 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Would I extend Houston or Tulane an ACC invite? No. But if in this stupid scenario I *have* to take Texas ... I'm going to at least see if Tulane can raise a few hundred mil and then take them to bridge the geographic divide and fire one across the bow of the SEC .... and maybe even gin up Fuhrer Mickey to do some in house consolidation.

I agree that Houston by itself makes ZERO sense... as a package that includes TCU and Texas as a partial though... maybe.

(02-25-2019 09:27 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 04:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Setting aside whether or not you're right, who cares about academic - the ACC is an athletic conference.

Research money makes CFP money look like peanuts. And right now there is very little research dead weight in the conference. Even little ole Wake does 3D printing of heart tissue.

1. Agreed: $Research >> $Athletics

2. So you're saying athletic conference affiliation affects research grants? That's news to me!

(02-25-2019 09:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-25-2019 07:48 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 11:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  Cincinnati is not in the heart of Big 10 country, it’s on the fringe. Adding a school in the outskirts of Ohio does nothing in itself. I don’t understand why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

To answer the original question of the thread, no, the ACC will not expand soon. Not with a bunch of Big XII rejects.

On a side note, I’m surprised at the lack of progress in Tulane basketball. They were tough throughout the 90’s, and I thought they’d get it going with Dunleavy.

Perhaps you didn't hear me.

Cincinnati IS in B1G country. What the "heart" of that is is unknown. I don't know... may be somewhere in Iowa?

As I said, Cincinnati has as good HS football as just about anywhere. Michigan, O$U, MSU, PSU and ND all recruit there hard.

Give these guys a reason to stay home and we're back in the game like '09 when we were ranked 3rd and one second from the BCS championship game.

But by all means don't let any of these facts deter your thinking.

So Cincinnati will poach Notre Dame’s coach and then get blown out by the first real team they play, just like ‘09? Cool.

Why not let Louisville and Pitt get some of those players without the added competition? Notre Dame being good is also alright by the ACC. No need to give your school a lifeboat so their program can improve and make the current programs in the conference have more competition.

I've been maintaining that Louisville and Pitt - and even VT - ought to recruit Cincinnati high schools more heavily.

(02-25-2019 10:27 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  2. Where do you plan to get half a billions dollars?

You make the fundraising a condition of membership.


Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

(02-25-2019 10:30 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-25-2019 09:27 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 04:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Setting aside whether or not you're right, who cares about academic - the ACC is an athletic conference.

Research money makes CFP money look like peanuts. And right now there is very little research dead weight in the conference. Even little ole Wake does 3D printing of heart tissue.

1. Agreed: $Research >> $Athletics

2. So you're saying athletic conference affiliation affects research grants? That's news to me!

It can be and increasingly is.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

(02-25-2019 09:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-25-2019 07:48 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 11:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  Cincinnati is not in the heart of Big 10 country, it’s on the fringe. Adding a school in the outskirts of Ohio does nothing in itself. I don’t understand why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

To answer the original question of the thread, no, the ACC will not expand soon. Not with a bunch of Big XII rejects.

On a side note, I’m surprised at the lack of progress in Tulane basketball. They were tough throughout the 90’s, and I thought they’d get it going with Dunleavy.

Perhaps you didn't hear me.

Cincinnati IS in B1G country. What the "heart" of that is is unknown. I don't know... may be somewhere in Iowa?

As I said, Cincinnati has as good HS football as just about anywhere. Michigan, O$U, MSU, PSU and ND all recruit there hard.

Give these guys a reason to stay home and we're back in the game like '09 when we were ranked 3rd and one second from the BCS championship game.

But by all means don't let any of these facts deter your thinking.

So Cincinnati will poach Notre Dame’s coach and then get blown out by the first real team they play, just like ‘09? Cool.

Why not let Louisville and Pitt get some of those players without the added competition? Notre Dame being good is also alright by the ACC. No need to give your school a lifeboat so their program can improve and make the current programs in the conference have more competition.

Perhaps you should read my original post.

Expansion is about leveraging other conferences. That's why Maryland is in the B1G now.

I'm just suggesting that the ACC push back, that's all.

... and I'm sorry no one ever wants to hire UNC's coaches, but if they ever did you find that your having you coach bolt on you before a bowl game is not really conducive to being ready to play.

It is highly unlikely that any non P5 school will ever be included in a P5 conference.
Cincinnati, Houston or Tulane are out, with very little hope of ever getting a P5 invitation.

(02-25-2019 10:32 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-25-2019 09:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-25-2019 07:48 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 11:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  Cincinnati is not in the heart of Big 10 country, it’s on the fringe. Adding a school in the outskirts of Ohio does nothing in itself. I don’t understand why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

To answer the original question of the thread, no, the ACC will not expand soon. Not with a bunch of Big XII rejects.

On a side note, I’m surprised at the lack of progress in Tulane basketball. They were tough throughout the 90’s, and I thought they’d get it going with Dunleavy.

Perhaps you didn't hear me.

Cincinnati IS in B1G country. What the "heart" of that is is unknown. I don't know... may be somewhere in Iowa?

As I said, Cincinnati has as good HS football as just about anywhere. Michigan, O$U, MSU, PSU and ND all recruit there hard.

Give these guys a reason to stay home and we're back in the game like '09 when we were ranked 3rd and one second from the BCS championship game.

But by all means don't let any of these facts deter your thinking.

So Cincinnati will poach Notre Dame’s coach and then get blown out by the first real team they play, just like ‘09? Cool.

Why not let Louisville and Pitt get some of those players without the added competition? Notre Dame being good is also alright by the ACC. No need to give your school a lifeboat so their program can improve and make the current programs in the conference have more competition.

I've been maintaining that Louisville and Pitt - and even VT - ought to recruit Cincinnati high schools more heavily.

The Cincinnati high school pipeline used to be very good for Louisville, even back in the Big East days when we were on the same playing field as the Bearcats.

For some reason, Bobby P lost his desire to recruit Ohio. But Satterfield has the whole state of Ohio in his focus. Cincinnati kids are popping up on recruiting lists, and visits to town, so the Cards are back, trying to open up that pipeline again.

It's absolutely amazing just how lazy Bobby got in his last two years. Truly.


As far as this thread goes ... if it were up to me ...

... my first option - add Texas with an ND deal. (long shot I know, but that's the home run add for the conference. Texas is arrogant enough to think they should go independent in football, so let em. The ACC is good enough to put them in their place, and keep them there the rest of the time. But they would satisfy the academic snobs in the conference. And are a HUGE brand for college athletics across the board. Austin would be a great trip to take too).

... second option - add Cincy. (I think they've shown a commitment to competing athletically, and getting in the ACC would allow them to truly grow into a power house. Last year, very good football - this looks like it should continue too. And they're on a 9 year streak of NCAA trips in hoops and 20 plus wins a year. Plus ... I just like beating them. Academic snobs can't b!tch about their inclusion either. Let us (Louisville) continue to be that piñata.)


Frankly, that's the extent of my preferences.

West Virginia does nothing for me. Classless clowns I'm glad to be away from.

I could get on board with a Houston, UCF, USF, and even Temple (Philly is a fun trip to make). But I doubt any of these happen.

(02-25-2019 01:51 PM)XLance Wrote:  It is highly unlikely that any non P5 school will ever be included in a P5 conference.
Cincinnati, Houston or Tulane are out, with very little hope of ever getting a P5 invitation.

Agreed here. There may a brief time should the XII expand but it would be short-lived. Reduction in the number of power schools seems far more likely. Actually, I anticipate a move to a 3-tiered FBS system to be the next major move - Power 4, Mid-Major 2, Group of 4 (or something like that.)

(02-25-2019 02:41 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  

(02-25-2019 10:32 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-25-2019 09:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-25-2019 07:48 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 11:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  Cincinnati is not in the heart of Big 10 country, it’s on the fringe. Adding a school in the outskirts of Ohio does nothing in itself. I don’t understand why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

To answer the original question of the thread, no, the ACC will not expand soon. Not with a bunch of Big XII rejects.

On a side note, I’m surprised at the lack of progress in Tulane basketball. They were tough throughout the 90’s, and I thought they’d get it going with Dunleavy.

Perhaps you didn't hear me.

Cincinnati IS in B1G country. What the "heart" of that is is unknown. I don't know... may be somewhere in Iowa?

As I said, Cincinnati has as good HS football as just about anywhere. Michigan, O$U, MSU, PSU and ND all recruit there hard.

Give these guys a reason to stay home and we're back in the game like '09 when we were ranked 3rd and one second from the BCS championship game.

But by all means don't let any of these facts deter your thinking.

So Cincinnati will poach Notre Dame’s coach and then get blown out by the first real team they play, just like ‘09? Cool.

Why not let Louisville and Pitt get some of those players without the added competition? Notre Dame being good is also alright by the ACC. No need to give your school a lifeboat so their program can improve and make the current programs in the conference have more competition.

I've been maintaining that Louisville and Pitt - and even VT - ought to recruit Cincinnati high schools more heavily.

The Cincinnati high school pipeline used to be very good for Louisville, even back in the Big East days when we were on the same playing field as the Bearcats.

For some reason, Bobby P lost his desire to recruit Ohio. But Satterfield has the whole state of Ohio in his focus. Cincinnati kids are popping up on recruiting lists, and visits to town, so the Cards are back, trying to open up that pipeline again.

It's absolutely amazing just how lazy Bobby got in his last two years. Truly.


As far as this thread goes ... if it were up to me ...

... my first option - add Texas with an ND deal. (long shot I know, but that's the home run add for the conference. Texas is arrogant enough to think they should go independent in football, so let em. The ACC is good enough to put them in their place, and keep them there the rest of the time. But they would satisfy the academic snobs in the conference. And are a HUGE brand for college athletics across the board. Austin would be a great trip to take too).

... second option - add Cincy. (I think they've shown a commitment to competing athletically, and getting in the ACC would allow them to truly grow into a power house. Last year, very good football - this looks like it should continue too. And they're on a 9 year streak of NCAA trips in hoops and 20 plus wins a year. Plus ... I just like beating them. Academic snobs can't b!tch about their inclusion either. Let us (Louisville) continue to be that piñata.)


Frankly, that's the extent of my preferences.

West Virginia does nothing for me. Classless clowns I'm glad to be away from.

I could get on board with a Houston, UCF, USF, and even Temple (Philly is a fun trip to make). But I doubt any of these happen.

We're working on it. We've been in the midst of a $1B campus improvement plan, with several major academic and research buildings, the most expensive dorm in the US, and a nearly $200M library and quad opening this year. We've had some issues getting the on campus stadium going, but we're still fully dedicated to getting it built in the next 5 years.

(02-25-2019 09:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 09:05 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 07:02 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 05:49 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  The Tulane stuff is patently hilarious. They are an absolute disaster in the AAC.

Yep. I read it on this board and over on the CR alignment forum. Tulane is a joke. They get 10k people in the seats for football and 1500 for hoops (both number might be inflated). Nobody in New Orleans give a rat’s behind. Would there be a bump when Clemson comes to town or Duke for basketball? Maybe, but probably not much and not on a nightly basis. It is a small school and most of the alums don’t stay in town after they graduate.

There are several other schools with would add a lot more

Other ACC schools and travelers don't give a rats ass about what people in New Orleans think about Tulane. We think about a trip TO New Orleans. That is the attraction.

My sources, and I trust them explicitly, assure me that New Orleans will allow people to visit their city any time, even if they are not in the same athletic conference. Armed with that inside info, I conclude that inviting a school to join your conference so you can visit them every other year ranks right below excellent academics as a reason for extending an invitation.

My wife and I were in New Orleans this weekend for Mardi Gras. I can confirm this is correct. We were allowed in even though there is no ACC school in New Orleans.

(02-24-2019 09:03 PM)Statefan Wrote:  According to ARWU Houston is embedded in the academic band that includes FSU, VT, UM, and ND. This means 70-95 in the US and 201-300 world wide.

NC State and UVa are in the 59-69 band. Pitt is 42, GT is 38, UNC 22, and Duke 19.

Clemson, Syracuse, and Louisville are all sub 500 world wide and in the band between 118 and about 145. Baylor is in this band as well.

When I see an academic ranking that has the likes of Houston and UAB and USF ahead of very fine institutions like Syracuse and Clemson, I would like to see the criteria that they use. But when I see that those institutions 200 to 300 spots ahead of Clemson and Syracuse, then I may question their criteria no matter what it is.

(02-25-2019 03:00 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(02-25-2019 02:41 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  The Cincinnati high school pipeline used to be very good for Louisville, even back in the Big East days when we were on the same playing field as the Bearcats.

For some reason, Bobby P lost his desire to recruit Ohio. But Satterfield has the whole state of Ohio in his focus. Cincinnati kids are popping up on recruiting lists, and visits to town, so the Cards are back, trying to open up that pipeline again.

It's absolutely amazing just how lazy Bobby got in his last two years. Truly.


As far as this thread goes ... if it were up to me ...

... my first option - add Texas with an ND deal. (long shot I know, but that's the home run add for the conference. Texas is arrogant enough to think they should go independent in football, so let em. The ACC is good enough to put them in their place, and keep them there the rest of the time. But they would satisfy the academic snobs in the conference. And are a HUGE brand for college athletics across the board. Austin would be a great trip to take too).

... second option - add Cincy. (I think they've shown a commitment to competing athletically, and getting in the ACC would allow them to truly grow into a power house. Last year, very good football - this looks like it should continue too. And they're on a 9 year streak of NCAA trips in hoops and 20 plus wins a year. Plus ... I just like beating them. Academic snobs can't b!tch about their inclusion either. Let us (Louisville) continue to be that piñata.)


Frankly, that's the extent of my preferences.

West Virginia does nothing for me. Classless clowns I'm glad to be away from.

I could get on board with a Houston, UCF, USF, and even Temple (Philly is a fun trip to make). But I doubt any of these happen.

We're working on it. We've been in the midst of a $1B campus improvement plan, with several major academic and research buildings, the most expensive dorm in the US, and a nearly $200M library and quad opening this year. We've had some issues getting the on campus stadium going, but we're still fully dedicated to getting it built in the next 5 years.

That's all you can do. Keep on investing in your program, and your school.

In all honesty, the AAC is a pretty entertaining league. If everyone had full stadiums, and a little history of full stadiums, they'd prolly be at the P5 level. But Temple, Cincy, Memphis, UCF, Houston, and Navy are a pretty solid core. USF and ECU if they could get more consistent only adds to it.

It's brutal not being included. No doubt. Tough row to hoe for sure.