(02-13-2019 03:30 PM)esayem Wrote: (02-13-2019 01:14 PM)orangefan Wrote: (02-13-2019 12:20 PM)esayem Wrote: (02-12-2019 11:35 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote: BTW, there was never any talk of an eastern seaboard conference...
There was talk in April/May of 1985 and January of 1989. Although it was just that, talk.
In 1985 from the Philly Inquirer:
"There have been ongoing discussions (about an all-sports conference) for five or six years," the Temple president said. "But there is nothing imminent. I know the president of West Virginia is very interested."
There has been talk in the past of a possible Seaboard Conference that would include Florida State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Rutgers, Temple and West Virginia. However, Liacouras said a more feasible arrangement would include Temple, Penn State, Rutgers and West Virginia as a starting base.
"Each of us has a comprehensive program which includes graduate and professional schools, and all are in the Northeast," Liacouras said.
So there was talk, and the President of Temple was aware of it. Yes, it was radical at the time, but it was floated out there. By whom? I have no idea.
On a related note, West Virginia's athletic council voted to leave the A10 and join the Metro in the mid-80's (WVU President, Golden Gee, initially supported this).
In 1989 the "Eastern Seaboard Conference" was talked about amongst AD's of West Virginia, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, FSU and Penn State. It was blown up by newspapers, but quickly downplayed by those involved as a "30 second conversation over breakfast".
* Later in May of 1989, AD's actually met and discussed the financial matters regarding a football conference. So this was more serious. Mentioned attending Army, Boston College, Florida State, Miami, Navy, Pitt, Rutgers, South Carolina, Syracuse, Temple and West Virginia. Penn State was a no-show.
Interesting, I was unaware of this. By 1989, the schools have direct control of their TV rights. The landscape is shifting, and it would make sense for a group of independents to chat about ideas for how to position themselves together in the market. However, there would not have been any urgency, since the CFA was still functioning and still included the SEC and Notre Dame.
The urgency came when the Big Ten invited Penn State in December 1989, sending Syracuse, Pitt and BC into panic mode. Things became even urgent when Notre Dame abandoned the CFA in February 1990 by signing its own TV deal with NBC. This was followed by the SEC's decision to expand, which would have at a minimum introduced a threat that they were considering leaving the CFA.
Right, and I believe Penn State was in talks behind closed doors with the Big Ten in early 1989, which is why they were blowing off invites and such. I know they wanted an all or nothing conference and it looked as if that wasn’t happening with their chief rivals Pitt and Syracuse.
As I think about it, it is pretty obvious that Penn State's biggest mistake was delay. Syracuse began meeting with Providence, Georgetown and St. John's to discuss forming what would become the Big East in 1978.
https://cuse.com/sports/2001/8/8/history.aspx Syracuse had no particular rivalry with Providence or Georgetown, only St. John's. BC was not invited until later, once the initial four had decided to move forward.
Paterno didn't make his move until 1981 (or possibly 1980, at the earliest). By then, the Big East was a huge success and Syracuse and BC would have something significant to lose if they left. In 1978 neither had nothing to lose.
For the 10 seasons from 1968 though 1978, Syracuse played the football schools and the early Big East members the following number of times:
Penn State: 20 (home and home every season)
Pittsburgh: 10
West Virginia: 10
Temple: 10
Rutgers: 8 (8 consecutive seasons from 1970-78)
BC: 5 (5 consecutive seasons from 1973-1978)
St. John's: 10
UConn: 7 (6 consecutive seasons from 1968-1974)
Providence: 1
Georgetown: 0
Seton Hall: 0
Villanova: 0
In other words, Syracuse had significant ongoing basketball rivalries with its fellow football schools, not with this group of basketball schools (aside from St. John's).
These schools had made the following number of NCAA and NIT appearances during the same 10 years:
Syracuse: NCAA 6(Final Four 1975), NIT 2
Rutgers: NCAA 2 (Final Four 1976), NIT 5
Temple: NCAA 2, NIT 2
BC: NCAA 1, NIT 2
Pittsburgh: NCAA 1 (Regional Finals 1974), NIT 1
Penn State: 0
West Virginia: 0
St. John's: NCAA 5, NIT 5
Providence: NCAA 5 (Final Four 1973), NIT 3
Villanova: NCAA 5 (Final Four 1971), NIT 1 (1971 results vacated by NCAA)
Georgetown: NCAA 2, NIT 3
UConn: NCAA 2, NIT 2
Seton Hall: NCAA 0, NIT 2
The non-FBS basketball schools that were early members of the Big East collectively had quite a bit stronger history than the FBS football schools, aside from Syracuse. Undoubtedly, this is why the founding group was talking.
It is worth noting that the football schools generally had better basketball facilities.
Syracuse: Manley Field House, capacity 9,536
West Virginia: WVU Coliseum, capacity 14,000
Penn State: Rec Hall, capacity 8,600 (record crowd 1973)
Rutgers: Louis Brown Athletic Center, capacity 8,000
Pittsburgh: Fitzgerald Field House, capacity 5,308 (1978), expanded to 6,360 in 1980.
Providence: Providence Civic Center, capacity 13,000
UConn: Hartford Civic Center, capacity 11,000 (expanded to 15,000 in 1979)
St. John's: Alumni Hall, capacity 6,000
All other schools played in smaller campus gyms with capacities in the 3,000-4,000 range, although all had access to larger NBA or NHL arenas.
The groups were present in the following large TV markets (the market ranking is my recollection of the rankings at the time):
New York (1): Rutgers, St. John's, Seton Hall
Philadelphia (4): Temple, Villanova
Boston (6): BC
Washington DC (8): Georgetown
Pittsburgh (11): Pittsburgh
Hartford (22): UConn
My point is that in 1978, Syracuse and BC would have had significant interest in an all sports conference as an alternative to the Big East. By the time the option was presented to them, the Big East was an overwhelming success, and they would have made a significant sacrifice by leaving.
Because the Eastern Independents stuck together for football after the decision to decline Penn State's invitation and the Big East's decision to bypass Penn State, they lost nothing on the football side. Even when Penn State did leave, SU, BC and Pittsburgh were extremely fortunate to "replace" Penn State with Miami, maintaining a solid football arrangement until around 2000, when the Big East's second TV contract for football turned out to be a disappointment.