(01-20-2019 10:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think everybody involved was wrong. I'm not going to defend any of them. The videos I've seen are too inconclusive to pin anything on anybody.

Actually, I thought along these lines too. I was in NYC one time and had an experience like this. They were calling Jesus a homosexual. No virgin birth. Last thing I would EVERvdo is get in any type of debate with anyone like that. In a way I blame the adults here. They are putting 17 year old kids into an arena that is dangerous. In today’s world, that’s the last area I would send my kid. Too many crazy people and the kids were definitely playing their part in that craziness.

BREAKING: Patriots beat the Chiefs.

(01-20-2019 10:58 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  BREAKING: Patriots beat the Chiefs.

omg

(01-20-2019 10:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think everybody involved was wrong. I'm not going to defend any of them. The videos I've seen are too inconclusive to pin anything on anybody.

Since you put the blame on all why not list what each of the three parties did wrong? Never mind just start with these kids and please dont use general terms. State exactly what they did that was wrong?

I've seen douchebag used to describe them, I dont know if you said that or not or think it. But what did you see that was wrong?

I'm seeing a lot of reactions like Mach said something horrible, but I'm not seeing the horrible thing. All I'm seeing is the idea that the boys were mocking the Native Americans. Which I agree with, the FSU-ish war chants were probably not meant to be supportive.

Did I miss something offensive? Or is that offensive to think that?

(01-20-2019 10:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think everybody involved was wrong. I'm not going to defend any of them. The videos I've seen are too inconclusive to pin anything on anybody.

Alright, Ben Shapiro. There's no honor in taking the middle ground between a rabid, foaming at the mouth media that is encouraging and engaging in the doxxing of kids, and a kid wearing a red hat and smiling.

FYI, they've already mistakenly doxxed a random kid that wasn't even there. He's now getting death threats.

But you thread that needle.

(01-20-2019 11:05 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  I'm seeing a lot of reactions like Mach said something horrible, but I'm not seeing the horrible thing. All I'm seeing is the idea that the boys were mocking the Native Americans. Which I agree with, the FSU-ish war chants were probably not meant to be supportive.

Did I miss something offensive? Or is that offensive to think that?

So it was the chants that were wrong? I think you are mistaken on your take on the chats. These are 16-17 year old kids and a lot of them their only experience with the beat and the chant is what they saw on sporting event where FSU is playing. Before they started chanting and going along with the beat. These same kids were doing their school chants...sporting chants.

I actually know two the kids shown in the videos and I would bet my life for most (if not all) the chants were not made mocking Native Americans but something they heard 50 times in their life from 75,000 FSU fans

Insulting or mocking this man was probably the last thing on their mind. Hell they just spend an hour being called a lot of names. Then this man walks up beating a drum in their face. You can see the surprise on a few of the faces. Then a few went with it and more and more started chanting. Just my opinion but I bet more than one (or 50) thought they were defusing what was happening. Not knowing they were being played by all involved

(01-20-2019 11:12 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-20-2019 11:05 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  I'm seeing a lot of reactions like Mach said something horrible, but I'm not seeing the horrible thing. All I'm seeing is the idea that the boys were mocking the Native Americans. Which I agree with, the FSU-ish war chants were probably not meant to be supportive.

Did I miss something offensive? Or is that offensive to think that?

So it was the chants that were wrong? I think you are mistaken on your take on the chats. These are 16-17 year old kids and a lot of them their only experience with the beat and the chant is what they saw on sporting event where FSU is playing. Before they started chanting and going along with the beat. These same kids were doing their school chants...sporting chants.

I actually know two the kids shown in the videos and I would bet my life for most (if not all) the chants were not made mocking Native Americans but something they heard 50 times in their life from 75,000 FSU fans

I'm with Owl. I wasn't there and I'm not any of these people, so I don't know what's in their hearts. But if I'm speculating, I think everyone in the situation could have handled it better.

With the kids, I'm having trouble picturing a situation where someone from a people group would be chanting near me and my response would be to laugh and chant back my closest approximation to that culture.

(01-20-2019 11:28 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  

(01-20-2019 11:12 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-20-2019 11:05 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  I'm seeing a lot of reactions like Mach said something horrible, but I'm not seeing the horrible thing. All I'm seeing is the idea that the boys were mocking the Native Americans. Which I agree with, the FSU-ish war chants were probably not meant to be supportive.

Did I miss something offensive? Or is that offensive to think that?

So it was the chants that were wrong? I think you are mistaken on your take on the chats. These are 16-17 year old kids and a lot of them their only experience with the beat and the chant is what they saw on sporting event where FSU is playing. Before they started chanting and going along with the beat. These same kids were doing their school chants...sporting chants.

I actually know two the kids shown in the videos and I would bet my life for most (if not all) the chants were not made mocking Native Americans but something they heard 50 times in their life from 75,000 FSU fans

I'm with Owl. I wasn't there and I'm not any of these people, so I don't know what's in their hearts. But if I'm speculating, I think everyone in the situation could have handled it better.

With the kids, I'm having trouble picturing a situation where someone from a people group would be chanting near me and my response would be to laugh and chant back my closest approximation to that culture.

How about if you were 16-17 years old? Wisdom and age plays a huge role in how we act. One thing is very clear to me from all the videos....

2 group of people had an agenda in all of this. One was just there enjoying their day and too young to know what was going on. If this chant is wrong then it shouldn't be allowed by the 75,000 fans at a FSU game.

What I find truly disgusting in all of this....

no outrage from the racist, homophobic, bigots in the video. But we cant do that, that would make us all racist

(01-20-2019 11:33 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  How about if you were 16-17 years old? Wisdom and age plays a huge role in how we act. One thing is very clear to me from all the videos....

2 group of people had an agenda in all of this. One was just there enjoying their day and too young to know what was going on. If this chant is wrong then it shouldn't be allowed by the 75,000 fans at a FSU game.

I know quite a few 16-17yos. I don't know any that would react that way. Most would just move out of the way and laugh awkwardly to break the tension.

Fair point about the 2 groups having an agenda. The kids didn't ask for any of this and it's really stupid to go after minors for crap like this.

I'm not making the argument that the chant is wrong, just that I can't think of a situation where it would be appropriate to respond to a Native American chanting with it. If the guy was protesting for Italian-American rights and I said, "That's a spicy meatball!" and started singing songs from Super Mario Bros, that probably wouldn't be received as supportive. Nothing wrong with Mario.

The attack on Mach became personal when you assaulted his teaching. Attack the claims made by the poster. Attack the way they argue, or the way they distort facts, or the things they harp on. Attack their flaws in logic. If they are condescending or offensive report them. If you don't like reporting people then attack their condescension or offensive remarks. Don't attack them.

I've stayed out of this thread until now because there are only losers here. But those who issued the parade permits knew that when they set this up.

If there is blame to be passed around it is squarely on those who scheduled these diverse demonstrations simultaneously. Whoever did that had the cameras there ready to pounce on the kids who did themselves, and their cause, no favors in responding the way they did. In other words these kids were framed up for this.

The kids were being the immature people that kids are. The adults who issued the permits are the perpetrators here. I don't agree with doxing at anytime. But the ones who are guilty reside in city hall and issue the permits. They also are the most likely to have the names of the participants.

(01-20-2019 11:40 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  

(01-20-2019 11:33 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  How about if you were 16-17 years old? Wisdom and age plays a huge role in how we act. One thing is very clear to me from all the videos....

2 group of people had an agenda in all of this. One was just there enjoying their day and too young to know what was going on. If this chant is wrong then it shouldn't be allowed by the 75,000 fans at a FSU game.

I know quite a few 16-17yos. I don't know any that would react that way. Most would just move out of the way and laugh awkwardly to break the tension.

Fair point about the 2 groups having an agenda. The kids didn't ask for any of this and it's really stupid to go after minors for crap like this.

I'm not making the argument that the chant is wrong, just that I can't think of a situation where it would be appropriate to respond to a Native American chanting with it. If the guy was protesting for Italian-American rights and I said, "That's a spicy meatball!" and started singing songs from Super Mario Bros, that probably wouldn't be received as supportive. Nothing wrong with Mario.

You must know some mature 16-17 year olds because the ones I know do dumb things without thinking about meaning almost every day. Especially when in a group setting. So what you're saying is the chant is not demeaning unless its said at a Native American. If that's the case....

I wonder how many Native Americans has played at or on the FSU field? Either its offensive or its not and since this same chant has been shown 100s of times on ABC I assume it's not. So just because a Native American beats his drum and a group of 16-17 years repeat a saying they heard many times...to something like this beat. Then intent matters. I doubt if many, actually any of those kids were doing this with the intent of insulting this man.

Now Cracker, fagot, and the many other insults throw at these kids were done to insult them. Yet you didn't hear any of them trying to do the same to the black men.

So again if they were doing it to insult the Native American you have to ask yourself...why not insult the black men?

(01-20-2019 11:52 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  So what you're saying is the chant is not demeaning unless its said at a Native American. If that's the case....

I wonder how many Native Americans has played at or on the FSU field? Either its offensive or its not and since this same chant has been shown 100s of times on ABC I assume it's not.

Context matters. It makes a difference in how things are received. I'm not sure how to do a better job of explaining that.

(01-20-2019 10:58 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  BREAKING: Patriots beat the Chiefs.

Yet, again?

Nicely done.

(01-19-2019 08:31 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 08:27 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 08:15 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 07:46 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  The students were flat out wrong. They should and I'm sure will be punished severely.
The Native American should have been shown the same respect as any other citizen.

Missing from the story for me was why the Indigenous People's March, Right to Life March and Women's March all seemed to be taking place at the same time in the same place? Seems like either poor planning or the newer groups were looking to cause trouble by concurrent timing.

Punished for what?

The Diocese of Covington has already issued an apology for their inappropriate behavior — behavior unbecoming of students at a Catholic institution. There will be repercussions.

Conservatives have a bad habit of apologizing when they didn’t do anything wrong, in attempt to appease an unhinged mob, who never accepts the apology.

It's what the left calls compromise.

(01-20-2019 09:24 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Puhleaze. Utterly disgusting what those kids did and that you defend it or attempt to normalize it speaks volumes. 70% of this country looks at knows exactly who is and is not at fault.

Maybe you haven't seen the videos yet that show you are full of shite? I'm not sure how you can make yourself look any more foolish than you are doing here but I bet you'll figure out something by the time the next news cycle gins up.

Look, I get it, no one wants to have to back track and disavow the very thing that was giving them wood just a few minutes ago but I think it's that time. Walk it back now while you can still save some face.

(01-20-2019 09:35 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Again. You are wrong. The attitudes of these young people mocking an Indian in a “counter’ protest disgusts many. Everybody who watches that video I showed. The Magas surrounding the elder Indian will be appalled.

He walks into their midst and they start chanting in time to his drum and somehow that's disgusting to you? People like you who wish to be butt-hurt all the time ultimately will.

(01-20-2019 10:10 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

Could you please cite something that shows how he was abused?

(01-20-2019 10:25 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Or he was distracting the mob from another disenfranchised population. I can promise you my children were never be this disrespectful to anyone. The whole disrespect just to the man’s age. I was just raised different. Obviously this teen has been raised to think they are better than others

I've seen little from you that indicates you respect anything at all. You may even have that word confused with something else.

(01-20-2019 03:17 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(01-20-2019 10:10 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

Notice how OP can't refute the evidence debunking his fake news story, and instead of manning up, retracting and disavowing, he just posts some ambiguous meme listing the native's "stats", as if that means anything.

It's his go to tactic.