(01-14-2019 10:48 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 07:22 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 07:18 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Yikes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-he...es-n956931

Millennials dont want kids. They are too spoiled and selfish.

Gone are the days where the average person can support a stay-at-home parent with 5 kids.... The average cost to raise a child to the age of 18 is somewhere around a quarter million dollars.

But keep shitting on an entire generation.

That's not entirely fair either.

It all goes back to priorities and sacrifices.

Even though my family was small, I had friends who were from large families. What we all had in common was that NONE of had the newest and best growing up. Clothes were hand-me-downs, meals often consisted of something like Hamburger Helper, things like that.

I wore whatever was cheap & on sale at K-Mart if I needed "new clothes". My first pair of Nikes was after I had a job and bought them myself. If we had cell phones when I was younger and I told my parents I "needed" one at 10, they would have said no when they finally stopped laughing.

I'm not saying the younger generations are wrong. I respect the fact that they want their hard work to benefit themselves and want to enjoy the fruits of their labor. I feel the same way.

If they REALLY want kids, they could make it work. They choose not to.

(01-11-2019 07:18 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Yikes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-he...es-n956931

So are testosterone levels in our young men...

(01-12-2019 03:34 PM)ArmyBlazer Wrote:  Well, my 3rd should be here in about 2.5 months. So I’m doing my part.

We have #1, plan for #2, and if possible may consider a #3. We are a bit older, but we were a bit older when we married. Still, we plan to do our part.

We had #1, by that time I knew that his mom was not the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. So we never had more. Fortunately #1 has turned out to be spectacularly wonderful, so I don't view the entire marriage as a waste.

(01-12-2019 03:34 PM)ArmyBlazer Wrote:  Well, my 3rd should be here in about 2.5 months. So I’m doing my part.

Awesome! But, no more single coverage in a few months. It will soon be time to switch to zone defense. Zone defense can work well with 3+ kids,...until the offense figures out the zone coverage...or as long as you can still make adequate use of strategic baby gates.

Hopefully one of your older kids is a girl. Once the girl hits about 7 or 8, you can potentially consider a move back to single coverage, with the girl on your side of the ball!....at least,....until puberty.....gulp!

It's funny, my wife and I have exactly zero friends with three kids who planned for three kids. It was more like two, then oooops. That's just anecdotal, but funny none-the-less

Also, many of those in that situation had to have fertility treatments. The drugs don't work in the beginning but have to build up over a bit of time which leads to the second kid. But then a few months after birth of #2 and those chemicals are still hanging around and suddenly she's Fertile Myrtle.

Twice, count them twice, my wife has been on the receiving end of a frantic, crying phone call from a friend who found they were pregnant with their third after aggressive fertility treatments just so they could have their second kid.

My mom's mom had 10 kids.

10

She said that every time my grandpa put his pants over the footboard she got pregnant.

My dad's mom had 5, so it's changed a LOT in 7 decades.

(01-14-2019 08:42 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  My mom's mom had 10 kids.

10

She said that every time my grandpa put his pants over the footboard she got pregnant.

My dad's mom had 5, so it's changed a LOT in 7 decades.

When the country was more agrarian large families were the norm. The more children the more hands you had at the harvest. As work has become predominantly urban, and as culture now frowns on children working, families have become much smaller.

I have one daughter in rural New England who married into a family like the Walton's The other daughter married into an urban legal family. The former are all very close and rather congenial. The latter is very disparate in all regards and really only come together for the holidays. All families on all sides were much larger before this generation, and even larger than that for what would be the parents' grandparents. And all sides two generations ago were agrarian, or timber oriented families.

(01-14-2019 09:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 08:42 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  My mom's mom had 10 kids.

10

She said that every time my grandpa put his pants over the footboard she got pregnant.

My dad's mom had 5, so it's changed a LOT in 7 decades.

When the country was more agrarian large families were the norm. The more children the more hands you had at the harvest. As work has become predominantly urban, and as culture now frowns on children working, families have become much smaller.

I have one daughter in rural New England who married into a family like the Walton's The other daughter married into an urban legal family. The former are all very close and rather congenial. The latter is very disparate in all regards and really only come together for the holidays. All families on all sides were much larger before this generation, and even larger than that for what would be the parents' grandparents. And all sides two generations ago were agrarian, or timber oriented families.

While both sets of my grandparents were born into farming families they all worked most of their lives in the regional cotton mills, so looks like it took at least one generation to adjust the numbers.

(01-14-2019 09:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 08:42 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  My mom's mom had 10 kids.

10

She said that every time my grandpa put his pants over the footboard she got pregnant.

My dad's mom had 5, so it's changed a LOT in 7 decades.

When the country was more agrarian large families were the norm. The more children the more hands you had at the harvest. As work has become predominantly urban, and as culture now frowns on children working, families have become much smaller.

I have one daughter in rural New England who married into a family like the Walton's The other daughter married into an urban legal family. The former are all very close and rather congenial. The latter is very disparate in all regards and really only come together for the holidays. All families on all sides were much larger before this generation, and even larger than that for what would be the parents' grandparents. And all sides two generations ago were agrarian, or timber oriented families.

My grandfather had 10 siblings. His Mother died with the birth of his youngest brother. His father later died. When the father died, the cousins took in all the kids but the 3 youngest, including my grandfather. The youngest weren't old enough to help on the farm so they got sent to a Philly orphanage.

(01-12-2019 08:40 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  New York Magazine's current issue has some predictions for the year 2039. One of them was that in 20 years most people won't have sex at all, but rather will be mostly masturbating and having virtual sex.

So I'm ahead of my time.

(01-15-2019 10:26 AM)PlainTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 08:40 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  New York Magazine's current issue has some predictions for the year 2039. One of them was that in 20 years most people won't have sex at all, but rather will be mostly masturbating and having virtual sex.

So I'm ahead of my time.

Does virtual sex with another woman constitute adultery when we have never been in the same room in all our lives?

This is just one of the important questions greedy divorce lawyers will answer for us in the coming years.

(01-15-2019 01:59 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(01-15-2019 10:26 AM)PlainTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 08:40 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  New York Magazine's current issue has some predictions for the year 2039. One of them was that in 20 years most people won't have sex at all, but rather will be mostly masturbating and having virtual sex.

So I'm ahead of my time.

Does virtual sex with another woman constitute adultery when we have never been in the same room in all our lives?

This is just one of the important questions greedy divorce lawyers will answer for us in the coming years.

The answer will be adultery if the man is doing it and "no fault" if the woman is doing it.

(01-15-2019 10:26 AM)PlainTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 08:40 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  New York Magazine's current issue has some predictions for the year 2039. One of them was that in 20 years most people won't have sex at all, but rather will be mostly masturbating and having virtual sex.

So I'm ahead of my time.

Welcome to the Spin Room! Great first post, you'll fit in well here............

(01-14-2019 11:31 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 10:48 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 07:22 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 07:18 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Yikes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-he...es-n956931

Millennials dont want kids. They are too spoiled and selfish.

Gone are the days where the average person can support a stay-at-home parent with 5 kids.... The average cost to raise a child to the age of 18 is somewhere around a quarter million dollars.

But keep shitting on an entire generation.

That's not entirely fair either.

It all goes back to priorities and sacrifices.

Even though my family was small, I had friends who were from large families. What we all had in common was that NONE of had the newest and best growing up. Clothes were hand-me-downs, meals often consisted of something like Hamburger Helper, things like that.

I wore whatever was cheap & on sale at K-Mart if I needed "new clothes". My first pair of Nikes was after I had a job and bought them myself. If we had cell phones when I was younger and I told my parents I "needed" one at 10, they would have said no when they finally stopped laughing.

I'm not saying the younger generations are wrong. I respect the fact that they want their hard work to benefit themselves and want to enjoy the fruits of their labor. I feel the same way.

If they REALLY want kids, they could make it work. They choose not to.

I agree with you that it comes down to sacrifices and priorities... Perhaps it's more of a priority for millennials to get themselves in a secure place romantically and financially before bringing another soul into this world. My SO and I both work 50-60 hour weeks in professional jobs around the DC area. We both make a similar amount of money, so if one of us took a break from work to raise a baby, our income would be slashed in half. I'm in my late 20's so we're currently trying to pay off debts and raise enough money to put a down payment on a house down the road. That said, we're both doing relatively quite well, so we're fortunate for that.

I'm a millennial, but I was also one of six children so I was very much accustomed to hand-me-downs and Kraft dinner. When the day comes that I have kids of my own, I intend to be frugal and try not to spoil them too much. I also believe that no one under the age of 13 ought to have their own smart phone. I'm just so sick of older generations taking pot shots at millenials for being lazy, selfish, or spoiled, or saying that "millennials are ruining [insert failing industry here]". Sure, we have some idiots and a few loose screws, but I firmly believe every generation has had their dead-beats and slackers.

Quote:“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

― Socrates

Perhaps we've seen the divorce rates of the generation that raised us and decided that maybe having children before we're ready isn't such a good idea. At my age now, I'm much more developed as a person, more financially secure, and I think when the time comes, better prepared to raise a kid of my own than I was at 20. That being said, I don't see the point in having six kids of my own some day. It's not the nineteenth century when there was like a 50/50 chance of your kid dying by the age of 5 anymore. Nor do I need a bunch of children to provide a helping hand for my line of work.

(01-15-2019 03:36 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  I agree with you that it comes down to sacrifices and priorities... Perhaps it's more of a priority for millennials to get themselves in a secure place romantically and financially before bringing another soul into this world. My SO and I both work 50-60 hour weeks in professional jobs around the DC area. We both make a similar amount of money, so if one of us took a break from work to raise a baby, our income would be slashed in half. I'm in my late 20's so we're currently trying to pay off debts and raise enough money to put a down payment on a house down the road. That said, we're both doing relatively quite well, so we're fortunate for that.

I'm a millennial, but I was also one of six children so I was very much accustomed to hand-me-downs and Kraft dinner. When the day comes that I have kids of my own, I intend to be frugal and try not to spoil them too much. I also believe that no one under the age of 13 ought to have their own smart phone. I'm just so sick of older generations taking pot shots at millenials for being lazy, selfish, or spoiled, or saying that "millennials are ruining [insert failing industry here]". Sure, we have some idiots and a few loose screws, but I firmly believe every generation has had their dead-beats and slackers.

Quote:“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

― Socrates

Perhaps we've seen the divorce rates of the generation that raised us and decided that maybe having children before we're ready isn't such a good idea. At my age now, I'm much more developed as a person, more financially secure, and I think when the time comes, better prepared to raise a kid of my own than I was at 20. That being said, I don't see the point in having six kids of my own some day. It's not the nineteenth century when there was like a 50/50 chance of your kid dying by the age of 5 anymore. Nor do I need a bunch of children to provide a helping hand for my line of work.

I speak as a mid-40s married, childless person.

Painting with a broad brush, admittedly, but I think most/many millenials are misguided on the later in life children thing. Being financially secure is something very few of us ever really are. My parents' were not financially secure when they had me and my three siblings. My dad had a good job. They had a mortgage and car loans in their mid-20s. They made do and slowly pulled ahead, while raising the four of us.

The waiting to start a family until age 30 or more also ignores basic biology, especially on the woman's side. The extended 30s is not as healthy of a time to have a child/children as the mid 20s to 30. The health impacts are to the child and the mother. Consider if one wants to start at 30 and has two years of fertility issues just to get to child #1. Child #2 at 34 and if they want a #3 at 36?

I had a discussion with a friend yesterday where he was mentioning his sons who are closing in on college graduation. They claim to have no idea what they want to do. He told them they need to figure it out. They need to get going because time, in life, is not assured

I really appreciate your comment above on priorities. I think you have that nailed.

There is definitely a benefit to waiting until you are a little more secure in your job, your marriage and yourself. That said, women's fertility starts declining rapidly around age 30 and significantly drops around 35.

And something we learned that you don't hear much about is that the % of first pregnancies that ends in spontaneous miscarriage is very high, between 30 and 50%.

...shitting on millennials...

That's a favorite of the loser segment of the generations before us.

(01-15-2019 04:56 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(01-15-2019 03:36 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  I agree with you that it comes down to sacrifices and priorities... Perhaps it's more of a priority for millennials to get themselves in a secure place romantically and financially before bringing another soul into this world. My SO and I both work 50-60 hour weeks in professional jobs around the DC area. We both make a similar amount of money, so if one of us took a break from work to raise a baby, our income would be slashed in half. I'm in my late 20's so we're currently trying to pay off debts and raise enough money to put a down payment on a house down the road. That said, we're both doing relatively quite well, so we're fortunate for that.

I'm a millennial, but I was also one of six children so I was very much accustomed to hand-me-downs and Kraft dinner. When the day comes that I have kids of my own, I intend to be frugal and try not to spoil them too much. I also believe that no one under the age of 13 ought to have their own smart phone. I'm just so sick of older generations taking pot shots at millenials for being lazy, selfish, or spoiled, or saying that "millennials are ruining [insert failing industry here]". Sure, we have some idiots and a few loose screws, but I firmly believe every generation has had their dead-beats and slackers.

Quote:“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

― Socrates

Perhaps we've seen the divorce rates of the generation that raised us and decided that maybe having children before we're ready isn't such a good idea. At my age now, I'm much more developed as a person, more financially secure, and I think when the time comes, better prepared to raise a kid of my own than I was at 20. That being said, I don't see the point in having six kids of my own some day. It's not the nineteenth century when there was like a 50/50 chance of your kid dying by the age of 5 anymore. Nor do I need a bunch of children to provide a helping hand for my line of work.

I speak as a mid-40s married, childless person.

Painting with a broad brush, admittedly, but I think most/many millenials are misguided on the later in life children thing. Being financially secure is something very few of us ever really are. My parents' were not financially secure when they had me and my three siblings. My dad had a good job. They had a mortgage and car loans in their mid-20s. They made do and slowly pulled ahead, while raising the four of us.

The waiting to start a family until age 30 or more also ignores basic biology, especially on the woman's side. The extended 30s is not as healthy of a time to have a child/children as the mid 20s to 30. The health impacts are to the child and the mother. Consider if one wants to start at 30 and has two years of fertility issues just to get to child #1. Child #2 at 34 and if they want a #3 at 36?

I had a discussion with a friend yesterday where he was mentioning his sons who are closing in on college graduation. They claim to have no idea what they want to do. He told them they need to figure it out. They need to get going because time, in life, is not assured

I really appreciate your comment above on priorities. I think you have that nailed.

Not to mention I had a helluva lot more energy with my first at 29 than I do with my 3rd at 40. I wish I started younger, but didn't find a suitable mate until my late 20s. The wife is now 37 so we are likely done, though we aren't doing anything to stop it.