(01-11-2019 10:29 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 09:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 12:34 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 08:38 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 08:24 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ExOYvW5vCj4 The wall stopped no one, people found a way. They had more than a wall, concertina wire, dogs/armed guards, towers, and vehicle barriers and couldn’t stop people.

Did you not even watch the video? Those people were jumping out of 4 and 5 story window of apt houses on the border and cutting through WIRE not a wall. I did not see one person going over the wall. No one can be that dense to believe some of the things you posted.

I did watch the video and my take away was that people, regardless of sex or age are willing to throw themselves out of 4 story windows, brave armed guards, and run through razor wire to get to their idea of freedom. I see human beings that are motivated enough won’t let a wall stop them. You may call me dense but I don’t think you can see the forest through the trees.

There are 15K stopped at the Tijuana border right now—causing problems for that city. So, yes—-apparently you can stop them.

The wall isn’t stopping them. What’s stopping them is they’re waiting to turn themselves into a port of entry as per the legal route of doing it. They could’ve walked through a desert wasteland and got in that way if they wanted.

Mountains and deserts are formidable barriers. People die along those routes monthly. Most people won't try it.

Its like with laws against illegal activity. You don't stop everyone from doing, but you stop the vast majority.

(01-11-2019 12:31 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:52 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:10 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 02:29 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  Didn't mean to offend - - at least not you.

But I do have deep reservations about President Trump's mental acuity - - on this issue in particular, which he has made his Waterloo. I honestly don't care if the wall is built or not. Whether it is or it isn't, this will not end well.

The Democrats don't care, because they are all in for the potential votes. The Trump Republicans care, but have completely mis-framed the problem. It is most definitely a crisis. Just not one that will be solved by a border wall.

Well, the people that actually do the job of securing the border, the
Border Patrol, have stated repeatedly that in places where we have a wall/fence along the border it has made a difference. In other words, they support it. I watched on TV earlier this week an Obama appointee that was the head of the Border Patrol during his time in the White House, who was subsequently replaced by President Trump, state that the wall has his full support because it is effective.

Since you apparently have this thing (border security needs) all figured out ..... how about sharing that information with the rest of us. Please don't just give us some ambiguous answer here. We what to know the details of what President Trump (and more importantly, the Democrats) should provide money for that will, for all practical purposes, stop the flow of illegals flooding across the border along with all that they bring with them - i.e. more crime, more diseases, more drug problems, more taxpayer money lost via entitlement payments to them, more job competition for low skilled Americans to keep their jobs, etc., etc., etc.

I used to be for a border wall and deportation.

Then I read about Arizona's law which impacted employers and their AZ business license. First offense of employing illegals and you lose your license for a year. Second offense you lose your license for life.

Imagine your business, your source of income, being shut down because you violated the law. That's a strong deterrent.

The side effect of that law was self-deportation of illegals out of AZ to surrounding states.

After reading about that I realized we could secure our borders by implementing strict zero-tolerance of existing and new laws.

But then later I realized that while one state gets tough (AZ) there's another who will purposely ignore laws (CA).

So then we left with this:
- States acting individually with possibly contradicting objectives
- Federal policy

I came to realize it's not a one-or-the-other solution. Different solutions can have cumulative impact.

I defer to agents on the ground regarding the wall. If they say it would have a positive impact then I agree with building a wall.

And it's not just a small majority of agents 51-49. That type of result could suggest aligning with political ideology. No, these results are along the 80-20 margin. And I doubt 80% of all border patrol agents consider themselves Republican.

Complimenting solutions:

• Build the wall
• End catch-and-release
• No amnesty
• Allow illegals to self-deport
• No federal benefits for illegals
• Reduced federal funds to sanctuary cities and states
• Penalties for employers who employ illegals
  

Regarding self-deportation...

Publicize that all illegals who voluntarily leave will be allowed to enter the legal immigration process upon returning home.

Any illegal who is caught after the self-deportation date will be deported and will never be allowed to enter the legal immigration process.

For those who might be unsure of their status (for whatever reason) would be able to access a website (no, not like the crappy ACA ObamaCare sites, but one that actually works) to discover their immigration status. If your status is UNDOCUMENTED then you need to self-deport.

Excellent response.

Although no one seems to be hearing me on this, I am not against a wall. I am against making this all about a wall, and am upset with the president for doing so.

The only change that I would make to your list of proposals is to move the wall from first spot to last. It will be the least effective measure that can be taken to address illegal immigration. (By making it first, and virtually only, on his list, President Trump has handed to the Democrats an unwarranted excuse for ignoring the rest of the remedial points.)

False documents are fairly easy to get. There are day labor jobs where you don't need documents.

The wall is the only thing on that list other than ending catch and release that will have a significant impact on its own. The others need to work together. Having a wall reduces numbers making it easier to implement all of the other things (including ending catch and release).

(01-11-2019 12:31 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:52 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:10 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 02:29 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  Didn't mean to offend - - at least not you.

But I do have deep reservations about President Trump's mental acuity - - on this issue in particular, which he has made his Waterloo. I honestly don't care if the wall is built or not. Whether it is or it isn't, this will not end well.

The Democrats don't care, because they are all in for the potential votes. The Trump Republicans care, but have completely mis-framed the problem. It is most definitely a crisis. Just not one that will be solved by a border wall.

Well, the people that actually do the job of securing the border, the
Border Patrol, have stated repeatedly that in places where we have a wall/fence along the border it has made a difference. In other words, they support it. I watched on TV earlier this week an Obama appointee that was the head of the Border Patrol during his time in the White House, who was subsequently replaced by President Trump, state that the wall has his full support because it is effective.

Since you apparently have this thing (border security needs) all figured out ..... how about sharing that information with the rest of us. Please don't just give us some ambiguous answer here. We what to know the details of what President Trump (and more importantly, the Democrats) should provide money for that will, for all practical purposes, stop the flow of illegals flooding across the border along with all that they bring with them - i.e. more crime, more diseases, more drug problems, more taxpayer money lost via entitlement payments to them, more job competition for low skilled Americans to keep their jobs, etc., etc., etc.

I used to be for a border wall and deportation.

Then I read about Arizona's law which impacted employers and their AZ business license. First offense of employing illegals and you lose your license for a year. Second offense you lose your license for life.

Imagine your business, your source of income, being shut down because you violated the law. That's a strong deterrent.

The side effect of that law was self-deportation of illegals out of AZ to surrounding states.

After reading about that I realized we could secure our borders by implementing strict zero-tolerance of existing and new laws.

But then later I realized that while one state gets tough (AZ) there's another who will purposely ignore laws (CA).

So then we left with this:
- States acting individually with possibly contradicting objectives
- Federal policy

I came to realize it's not a one-or-the-other solution. Different solutions can have cumulative impact.

I defer to agents on the ground regarding the wall. If they say it would have a positive impact then I agree with building a wall.

And it's not just a small majority of agents 51-49. That type of result could suggest aligning with political ideology. No, these results are along the 80-20 margin. And I doubt 80% of all border patrol agents consider themselves Republican.

Complimenting solutions:

• Build the wall
• End catch-and-release
• No amnesty
• Allow illegals to self-deport
• No federal benefits for illegals
• Reduced federal funds to sanctuary cities and states
• Penalties for employers who employ illegals
  

Regarding self-deportation...

Publicize that all illegals who voluntarily leave will be allowed to enter the legal immigration process upon returning home.

Any illegal who is caught after the self-deportation date will be deported and will never be allowed to enter the legal immigration process.

For those who might be unsure of their status (for whatever reason) would be able to access a website (no, not like the crappy ACA ObamaCare sites, but one that actually works) to discover their immigration status. If your status is UNDOCUMENTED then you need to self-deport.

Excellent response.

Although no one seems to be hearing me on this, I am not against a wall. I am against making this all about a wall, and am upset with the president for doing so.

The only change that I would make to your list of proposals is to move the wall from first spot to last. It will be the least effective measure that can be taken to address illegal immigration. (By making it first, and virtually only, on his list, President Trump has handed to the Democrats an unwarranted excuse for ignoring the rest of the remedial points.)

I don't believe that either Trump, or anyone on here has stated that the wall is a be all end all to stopping illegal immigration across our southern border. I agree with most everything umbluegray said in his post that you replied to. Most, if not all of those items he listed we have heard Trump himself mention as things we need to do. They all should be implemented today, and that includes funding for the border wall.

If the battery is missing from your car, the starter is broken, and the brakes are totally shot ... it doesn't do much good to fix one of them and then say you are good to go, or to even fix any two of them and have the same feeling. It all has to be done before the problem is corrected and the car is operational. Instead of problem solving the illegal immigration issue it appears that Democrats are just looking for votes instead by playing political games which will never fix the problem. Listen to the advice of the Border Patrol and build the barrier.

(01-11-2019 11:52 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:10 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 02:29 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  Didn't mean to offend - - at least not you.

But I do have deep reservations about President Trump's mental acuity - - on this issue in particular, which he has made his Waterloo. I honestly don't care if the wall is built or not. Whether it is or it isn't, this will not end well.

The Democrats don't care, because they are all in for the potential votes. The Trump Republicans care, but have completely mis-framed the problem. It is most definitely a crisis. Just not one that will be solved by a border wall.

Well, the people that actually do the job of securing the border, the
Border Patrol, have stated repeatedly that in places where we have a wall/fence along the border it has made a difference. In other words, they support it. I watched on TV earlier this week an Obama appointee that was the head of the Border Patrol during his time in the White House, who was subsequently replaced by President Trump, state that the wall has his full support because it is effective.

Since you apparently have this thing (border security needs) all figured out ..... how about sharing that information with the rest of us. Please don't just give us some ambiguous answer here. We what to know the details of what President Trump (and more importantly, the Democrats) should provide money for that will, for all practical purposes, stop the flow of illegals flooding across the border along with all that they bring with them - i.e. more crime, more diseases, more drug problems, more taxpayer money lost via entitlement payments to them, more job competition for low skilled Americans to keep their jobs, etc., etc., etc.

I used to be for a border wall and deportation.

Then I read about Arizona's law which impacted employers and their AZ business license. First offense of employing illegals and you lose your license for a year. Second offense you lose your license for life.

Imagine your business, your source of income, being shut down because you violated the law. That's a strong deterrent.

The side effect of that law was self-deportation of illegals out of AZ to surrounding states.

After reading about that I realized we could secure our borders by implementing strict zero-tolerance of existing and new laws.

But then later I realized that while one state gets tough (AZ) there's another who will purposely ignore laws (CA).

So then we left with this:
- States acting individually with possibly contradicting objectives
- Federal policy

I came to realize it's not a one-or-the-other solution. Different solutions can have cumulative impact.

I defer to agents on the ground regarding the wall. If they say it would have a positive impact then I agree with building a wall.

And it's not just a small majority of agents 51-49. That type of result could suggest aligning with political ideology. No, these results are along the 80-20 margin. And I doubt 80% of all border patrol agents consider themselves Republican.

Complimenting solutions:

• Build the wall
• End catch-and-release
• No amnesty
• Allow illegals to self-deport
• No federal benefits for illegals
• Reduced federal funds to sanctuary cities and states
• Penalties for employers who employ illegals
  

Regarding self-deportation...

Publicize that all illegals who voluntarily leave will be allowed to enter the legal immigration process upon returning home.

Any illegal who is caught after the self-deportation date will be deported and will never be allowed to enter the legal immigration process.

For those who might be unsure of their status (for whatever reason) would be able to access a website (no, not like the crappy ACA ObamaCare sites, but one that actually works) to discover their immigration status. If your status is UNDOCUMENTED then you need to self-deport.

The problem is---those methods work for those who are simply economic illegal aliens. Those methods are of no use in stopping drugs, terrorist, criminals, or others who are up to no good. That said, I believe everything you mentioned is part of the solution. As Ive said before, the wall is not the total solution---but it is a significant component.

(01-11-2019 01:45 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  I don't believe that either Trump, or anyone on here has stated that the wall is a be all end all to stopping illegal immigration across our southern border.

I acknowledge up front that this is a single quote presented out of context:

"I am going to build a great border wall to stop illegal immigration, to stop the gangs and the violence and to stop the drugs from pouring into our communities!" -- DJT

And I also acknowledge that the press is not very good at presenting anything by the most one-sided of narratives, especially when it comes to this president. It may very well be that Donald Trump has focused on the other items included on umbluegray's superb bullet list. But if he has, I haven't seen it. Or even anything close to it.

What I instead have seen is a president that is focused singly and exclusively on winning this war of wills over the wall. And he is losing the core argument in the process (about which I suspect that he has very little real understanding, aside from the cheap labor that he was able to employ at his Florida resort).

I truly and honestly hope that I am wrong on this. Along with runaway entitlement spending and unchecked terrorism, illegal immigration is an issue that threatens the fabric of our nation. It is too important to be boiled down to a simplistic argument over funding the construction of a border wall. By framing it as such, I fear that President Trump has essentially abandoned the larger issues.

Since this forum seems to love metaphors, it is as if a contractor recommends putting new siding on a termite-infested house. Yeah, it'll take care of the immediately obvious termite damage, but it will also lull the poor owners into a false sense that they have solved the problem. Shame on the contractor for doing so.

(01-11-2019 11:52 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Complementing solutions:

• Build the wall
• End catch-and-release
• No amnesty
• Allow illegals to self-deport
• No federal benefits for illegals
• Reduced federal funds to sanctuary cities and states
• Penalties for employers who employ illegals
  

Regarding self-deportation...
Publicize that all illegals who voluntarily leave will be allowed to enter the legal immigration process upon returning home.
Any illegal who is caught after the self-deportation date will be deported and will never be allowed to enter the legal immigration process.
For those who might be unsure of their status (for whatever reason) would be able to access a website (no, not like the crappy ACA ObamaCare sites, but one that actually works) to discover their immigration status. If your status is UNDOCUMENTED then you need to self-deport.

I'd give up the wall to get the rest of that list, plus a rational merit-based immigration system. We could start with Canada's as a model, which is sort of ironic since Trudeau has been very vocal in complaining about the US policy.

And as far as penalties for employers, you have to do two things first. One, fix E-Verify to provide reliable answers in real time (not sure that is actually doable), and two, provide a safe harbor for any employer who refuses to hire someone who cannot properly document his/her eligibility for employment.

I would implement a system of guest workers without a path to citizenship ("red card") like the rest of the world has. I would give red cards to anybody who came here illegally but is working and being productive, including dreamers. You either produce a green card, or produce a red card, or you can't work. That gives employers a simple process and then you can throw the book at any of them who violate it.

I would also allow anybody who enlists in the military and completes a term with an honorable discharge to fast track citizenship.

And I fixed one little thing for you. In that context it's complement with an "e" (meaning that it completes the list), not compliment with an "i" (meaning say something nice about somebody).

(01-11-2019 03:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:52 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Complementing solutions:

• Build the wall
• End catch-and-release
• No amnesty
• Allow illegals to self-deport
• No federal benefits for illegals
• Reduced federal funds to sanctuary cities and states
• Penalties for employers who employ illegals
  

Regarding self-deportation...
Publicize that all illegals who voluntarily leave will be allowed to enter the legal immigration process upon returning home.
Any illegal who is caught after the self-deportation date will be deported and will never be allowed to enter the legal immigration process.
For those who might be unsure of their status (for whatever reason) would be able to access a website (no, not like the crappy ACA ObamaCare sites, but one that actually works) to discover their immigration status. If your status is UNDOCUMENTED then you need to self-deport.

I'd give up the wall to get the rest of that list, plus a rational merit-based immigration system. We could start with Canada's as a model, which is sort of ironic since Trudeau has been very vocal in complaining about the US policy.

And as far as penalties for employers, you have to do two things first. One, fix E-Verify to provide reliable answers in real time (not sure that is actually doable), and two, provide a safe harbor for any employer who refuses to hire someone who cannot properly document his/her eligibility for employment.

I would implement a system of guest workers without a path to citizenship ("red card") like the rest of the world has. I would give red cards to anybody who came here illegally but is working and being productive, including dreamers. You either produce a green card, or produce a red card, or you can't work. That gives employers a simple process and then you can throw the book at any of them who violate it.

I would also allow anybody who enlists in the military and completes a term with an honorable discharge to fast track citizenship.

And I fixed one little thing for you. In that context it's complement with an "e" (meaning that it completes the list), not compliment with an "i" (meaning say something nice about somebody).

Most everything on that list is already been addressed

Quote:Under federal law, it is illegal for any employer to engage with illegal immigrants in the following manner:

Quote:Hiring illegal immigrants
Recruiting illegal immigrants
Referring illegal immigrants for work and receiving a fee
This also includes hiring contractors who use illegal immigrants. There are criminal and civil penalties associated with this conduct.

Are undocumented immigrants eligible for federal public benefit programs?
Generally no. Undocumented immigrants, including DACA holders, are ineligible to receive most federal public benefits, including means-tested benefits such as Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, sometimes referred to as food stamps), regular Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF). Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for health care subsidies under the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and are prohibited from purchasing unsubsidized health coverage on ACA exchanges.

Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for a handful of benefits that are deemed necessary to protect life or guarantee safety in dire situations, such as emergency Medicaid, access to treatment in hospital emergency rooms, or access to healthcare and nutrition programs under the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC).

Are legal immigrants eligible for federal public benefit programs?
Only those with lawful permanent resident (LPR) status, but not until they have resided as a legal resident for five years. LPRs – sometimes referred to as green card holders – do not have full access to all public benefit programs and are subject to limitations before being eligible for federal means-tested benefits, including Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), TANF, SNAP, and SSI. Such limitations include the “five-year bar,” which requires the individual to have maintained LPR status in the U.S. for five years before being eligible for benefits. However, under some federal benefit programs, this requirement can be bypassed when the recipient has worked 40 quarters under a visa. Quarters worked by parents when the immigrant was a dependent child, or by a spouse while married to the immigrant, count towards the immigrant’s 40 quarters.

Making rules are easy but getting states to enforce them isn't. It looks like there's nothing the federal government can do to withhold money from the states or cities that refuse to uphold the law.


There is a very simple thing to fix most of this, at least not add to the numbers. Once you stop the flow or reduce it to a trickle. Then you can start working on the problems created by those already here.

If a wall wouldn't work....the democrats wouldn't be fighting this. This isn't about a few billion dollars. Rules and laws have been in place for decades and it hasn't decreased the flow of people crossing our southern border. The only reason for that....

some people dont want it stopped

The one thing shown that does work, works no matter who's President. Works no matter who's mayor, or governor of these sanctuary cities and states.

A wall.

With a wall you are forced to address the need of relaxing the rules on who entries this country. That wall will reduce the flow...that is 100% a sure thing and you cant fix the problems already here till you address the flow

(01-11-2019 02:25 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 01:45 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  I don't believe that either Trump, or anyone on here has stated that the wall is a be all end all to stopping illegal immigration across our southern border.

I acknowledge up front that this is a single quote presented out of context:

"I am going to build a great border wall to stop illegal immigration, to stop the gangs and the violence and to stop the drugs from pouring into our communities!" -- DJT

And I also acknowledge that the press is not very good at presenting anything by the most one-sided of narratives, especially when it comes to this president. It may very well be that Donald Trump has focused on the other items included on umbluegray's superb bullet list. But if he has, I haven't seen it. Or even anything close to it.

What I instead have seen is a president that is focused singly and exclusively on winning this war of wills over the wall. And he is losing the core argument in the process (about which I suspect that he has very little real understanding, aside from the cheap labor that he was able to employ at his Florida resort).

I truly and honestly hope that I am wrong on this. Along with runaway entitlement spending and unchecked terrorism, illegal immigration is an issue that threatens the fabric of our nation. It is too important to be boiled down to a simplistic argument over funding the construction of a border wall. By framing it as such, I fear that President Trump has essentially abandoned the larger issues.

Since this forum seems to love metaphors, it is as if a contractor recommends putting new siding on a termite-infested house. Yeah, it'll take care of the immediately obvious termite damage, but it will also lull the poor owners into a false sense that they have solved the problem. Shame on the contractor for doing so.

Really??? He has spoken literally dozens of times about the need to abolish Sanctuary Cities (and States) and about defunding them. You never heard him say that??? If you have not heard President Trump comment to the media during his presidency about most if not all of the issues listed below, you either have a very short memory, have been listening to the wrong news outlets that are seemingly intent on just promoting anti-Trump messaging, or simply haven't been paying any attention.

Complimenting solutions:

•Build the wall
•End catch-and-release
•No amnesty
•Allow illegals to self-deport
•No federal benefits for illegals
•Reduced federal funds to sanctuary cities and states
•Penalties for employers who employ illegals

FYI, he has also spoken about the need to end both the Visa Lottery and Chain Migration (both illegal immigration contributors).

Anyone fighting the building of the wall is not part of an illegal immigration solution.

The media focuses solely on the wall and a literal interpretation of "Mexico will pay for it."

I promise that I am not trying to antagonize you, or anyone else. And perhaps I am a victim of "TDS" - - whatever that entails. But when I hear President Trump speak on any topic, I hear someone with (at best) a high-school level grasp of he subject matter.

Sometimes that's helpful. You don't need to be a tax expert to understand that lower tax rates means more incentive to productivity. Or that international bullies need to be stared down, not paid off. On those issues, President Trump is comfortably in his wheelhouse.

Yet immigration is not a simple issue, not even close. And, no, I don't hear anything but a simple-minded fixation from President Trump on the need for a wall.

From yesterday ..... What CNN doesn't want people to hear regarding the wall:

https://www.kusi.com/cnn-requests-kusi-f...LHqwqwjx94

(01-11-2019 04:28 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  From yesterday ..... What CNN doesn't want people to hear regarding the wall:

https://www.kusi.com/cnn-requests-kusi-f...LHqwqwjx94

another from the 'source' that backs up what the majority of us are saying....

go figure, eh?

(01-11-2019 10:47 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:29 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 09:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 12:34 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 08:38 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Did you not even watch the video? Those people were jumping out of 4 and 5 story window of apt houses on the border and cutting through WIRE not a wall. I did not see one person going over the wall. No one can be that dense to believe some of the things you posted.

I did watch the video and my take away was that people, regardless of sex or age are willing to throw themselves out of 4 story windows, brave armed guards, and run through razor wire to get to their idea of freedom. I see human beings that are motivated enough won’t let a wall stop them. You may call me dense but I don’t think you can see the forest through the trees.

There are 15K stopped at the Tijuana border right now—causing problems for that city. So, yes—-apparently you can stop them.

The wall isn’t stopping them. What’s stopping them is they’re waiting to turn themselves into a port of entry as per the legal route of doing it. They could’ve walked through a desert wasteland and got in that way if they wanted.

Which is why a formidable wall is necessary. Sorry, but it just doesn't fly that everyone, or even most everyone is going to suddenly have strength and agility that they didn't have before and scale a formidable structure. On top of that, those that may be able to do it will be a much smaller percentage of people to deal with and coming slowly over the structure, instead of being on the dead run as they would have been otherwise, for the Border Patrol to apprehend.

A middle aged woman with young kids (for example) is going to see this as a significant reason not to attempt to break into the country and therefore may well decide not to make the trip to the border at all.

Women will make this trip while menstrating just to decrease the chances of rape. So they’ll risk rape, but just turn around when they see a wall. This article is from the Obama era https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/faci...th-control

This one from this year. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washi...0-assaults

(01-11-2019 04:40 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:47 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:29 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 09:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 12:34 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  I did watch the video and my take away was that people, regardless of sex or age are willing to throw themselves out of 4 story windows, brave armed guards, and run through razor wire to get to their idea of freedom. I see human beings that are motivated enough won’t let a wall stop them. You may call me dense but I don’t think you can see the forest through the trees.

There are 15K stopped at the Tijuana border right now—causing problems for that city. So, yes—-apparently you can stop them.

The wall isn’t stopping them. What’s stopping them is they’re waiting to turn themselves into a port of entry as per the legal route of doing it. They could’ve walked through a desert wasteland and got in that way if they wanted.

Which is why a formidable wall is necessary. Sorry, but it just doesn't fly that everyone, or even most everyone is going to suddenly have strength and agility that they didn't have before and scale a formidable structure. On top of that, those that may be able to do it will be a much smaller percentage of people to deal with and coming slowly over the structure, instead of being on the dead run as they would have been otherwise, for the Border Patrol to apprehend.

A middle aged woman with young kids (for example) is going to see this as a significant reason not to attempt to break into the country and therefore may well decide not to make the trip to the border at all.

Women will make this trip while menstrating just to decrease the chances of rape. So they’ll risk rape, but just turn around when they see a wall. This article is from the Obama era https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/faci...th-control

This one from this year. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washi...0-assaults

Do you really think a little blood is going to stop someone from rape? Lets just say the sight of blood turns some rapist off....

the mouth or ass is probably just as good

(01-11-2019 04:53 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 04:40 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:47 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:29 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 09:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  There are 15K stopped at the Tijuana border right now—causing problems for that city. So, yes—-apparently you can stop them.

The wall isn’t stopping them. What’s stopping them is they’re waiting to turn themselves into a port of entry as per the legal route of doing it. They could’ve walked through a desert wasteland and got in that way if they wanted.

Which is why a formidable wall is necessary. Sorry, but it just doesn't fly that everyone, or even most everyone is going to suddenly have strength and agility that they didn't have before and scale a formidable structure. On top of that, those that may be able to do it will be a much smaller percentage of people to deal with and coming slowly over the structure, instead of being on the dead run as they would have been otherwise, for the Border Patrol to apprehend.

A middle aged woman with young kids (for example) is going to see this as a significant reason not to attempt to break into the country and therefore may well decide not to make the trip to the border at all.

Women will make this trip while menstrating just to decrease the chances of rape. So they’ll risk rape, but just turn around when they see a wall. This article is from the Obama era https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/faci...th-control

This one from this year. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washi...0-assaults

Do you really think a little blood is going to stop someone from rape? Lets just say the sight of blood turns some rapist off....

the mouth or ass is probably just as good

(01-10-2019 02:40 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 07:19 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 07:10 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Idc where you fall on border security, putting a wall up won’t stop anything. Physical barriers can easily be overcome and are ineffective. The only surefire way to seal an open border would be to mine it but I doubt private land owners would like that.

Patton suggested that fortifications were monuments to the stupidity of man.

And yet, Israel says they are 99% effective along their border.

There are all kinds of tunnels under their border wall..

And there is proof of this HOW?

Fence systems work so well that illegal crossing arrests are down 82% from around 15 or 17 years ago, peak high.
From peak highs, San Diego - down 92%, El Paso - down 95% Tucson - down 92% Yuma, AZ - down 96%.

It pushes those attempts further away from population centers. Also why thousands more have died, and these are just the ones where some of the bodies have been recovered. So effective that advocacy groups in the past call border patrol murders and junk like that. People can barely carry enough water to survive.

2006
"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double -- and in some places, triple -- fencing.
"Coffins" with the word "deaths" written on them in Spanish hang along the Mexican side of the border fence. Activists say the wall has forced immigrants to take life-risking routes through the desert to cross into the United States.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor...Id=5323928

2014
More agents and stricter enforcement policies intentionally funnel migrants into the most inhospitable stretches of eastern Arizona and western Texas, where the terrain is the hardest and hottest. A study published last year by the University of Arizona showed that the funnel effect had turned Tucson into “the single most traversed crossing corridor for migrants along the entire U.S.-Mexico border.”
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/20...izona.html

2009
Some 5,600 people have died trying to cross into the United States since the U.S. government under President Bill Clinton dramatically increased border security in 1994 with Operation Gatekeeper and the first stretch of fence between San Diego and Tijuana.
Before the stepped-up enforcement operations, experts say most deaths were due to traffic accidents as migrants dashed across freeways in border areas. Today, most die from hypothermia in the desert or by drowning in the Rio Grande and irrigation canals.
http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2009/10/...wallcosts/

attributable in large part to the increased militarization of the border and an intermittent fence that diverts migrants through treacherous desert terrain. From 1990 to 2000, the average number of migrant deaths each year was 12, but since 2000, that number has increased to 167 (Pima County Office of the Medical Examiner). Since 1998, more than 6,500 have died along the U.S.–Mexico border (U.S. Border Patrol).
https://www.kinoborderinitiative.org/deaths-desert-2/

The only thing preventing El Paso from being a complete sh*thole country is that wall. Nearly everyone who lived there prior to and after the wall would agree.

(01-11-2019 04:53 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 04:40 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:47 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:29 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 09:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  There are 15K stopped at the Tijuana border right now—causing problems for that city. So, yes—-apparently you can stop them.

The wall isn’t stopping them. What’s stopping them is they’re waiting to turn themselves into a port of entry as per the legal route of doing it. They could’ve walked through a desert wasteland and got in that way if they wanted.

Which is why a formidable wall is necessary. Sorry, but it just doesn't fly that everyone, or even most everyone is going to suddenly have strength and agility that they didn't have before and scale a formidable structure. On top of that, those that may be able to do it will be a much smaller percentage of people to deal with and coming slowly over the structure, instead of being on the dead run as they would have been otherwise, for the Border Patrol to apprehend.

A middle aged woman with young kids (for example) is going to see this as a significant reason not to attempt to break into the country and therefore may well decide not to make the trip to the border at all.

Women will make this trip while menstrating just to decrease the chances of rape. So they’ll risk rape, but just turn around when they see a wall. This article is from the Obama era https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/faci...th-control

This one from this year. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washi...0-assaults

Do you really think a little blood is going to stop someone from rape? Lets just say the sight of blood turns some rapist off....

the mouth or ass is probably just as good

I mean I don’t but they may believe that.

(01-11-2019 05:14 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 02:40 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 07:19 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 07:10 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Idc where you fall on border security, putting a wall up won’t stop anything. Physical barriers can easily be overcome and are ineffective. The only surefire way to seal an open border would be to mine it but I doubt private land owners would like that.

Patton suggested that fortifications were monuments to the stupidity of man.

And yet, Israel says they are 99% effective along their border.

There are all kinds of tunnels under their border wall..

And there is proof of this HOW?

It’s a major problem and it’s why Israel stopped steel and concrete from going into Palestine for some time now. Bc the steel and concrete they were supposedly using to build infrastructure was being used to build tunnels.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestin...Gaza_Strip

Tons of stuff on google about this.