And the Reds got robbed...

All the Dodgers did was dump salary so they could go after the player they really wanted.

I get that Puig is still young enough where he could fulfill some of his potential and Wood is a solid pitcher, but neither of those guys are likely to make a club that much better. That and Kemp is old...any improvement he brings will be short-lived.

(01-03-2019 12:09 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And the Reds got robbed...

All the Dodgers did was dump salary so they could go after the player they really wanted.

I get that Puig is still young enough where he could fulfill some of his potential and Wood is a solid pitcher, but neither of those guys are likely to make a club that much better. That and Kemp is old...any improvement he brings will be short-lived.

Puig is signed for one year. There isn't much time to fulfill any potential.

(01-03-2019 12:06 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 03:08 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 01:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 12:35 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-29-2018 01:33 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  Only thing I can think of to prevent bullpening would be to require starting pitchers to face an entire lineup at least once prior to being pulled, barring injury.

That would be a gross over-reaction to the B.S. stunt pulled by the Brewers' manager in the NLCS. Even the team that used "bullpenning" most often in 2018, the Rays, still had a pitcher throw at least 5 innings in all but about 10 games. The limitations of the 25-man roster almost require that, unless a team carries 15 pitchers (not gonna happen) or uses at least 3 of its relievers almost every day of the season (not gonna happen). There's no need to add any such rules to a rule book that already has too many rules.

I think on the other hand that MLB is going to send a message that some things need to get reined in or there's going to be changes made. If there isn't something done now.... I don't think anyone in the MLB offices wants what we saw in 2018 to go any further than it already has.

There's no need to add more rules because there's not enough room on a roster to use 7 pitchers in a game more often than about once a week, and no one will do it even once a week unless a game has weird circumstances.

For that matter, the only game last season in which both teams used 7 pitchers in a 9 inning game only happened because of 40 player September rosters, and it wouldn't bother me at all if MLB made the roster limit 25 for the entire season, or even if they compromised about it and made the limit 27. As Mattingly said, the rule should be the same for the entire season.

Haven't kept up with the entire discussion on this thread, but I think you're on the right track.

Expand the roster a little bit and forget the 40-man phase. I've always hated it because it screwed with the fantasy baseball stats. Then I had an epiphany that if the virtual game is being altered then what in the world must it be doing to the real game? I'm a little slow sometimes.

Anyway, I wouldn't ban the shift if for no more reason than it forces hitters to hone their craft.

Also, there's a wrinkle you could add to the game that I think would solve a lot of issues for a lot of different people....

The DH should be in both leagues. The rule should be that whenever you remove your SP then your DH comes out of the lineup and the pitcher has to hit from there on out.

If you couple this with an expanded roster then I think it helps everyone one way or the other.

1. You get a little more offense with the DH.
2. The extra roster spots will keep more players in the game longer and making more money...the Union should like that.
3. The rule on removal will discourage teams from using openers instead of starters.
4. It adds a little more NL-like strategy to every game as the manager has to figure out when and how to replace his DH/SP.
5. It also makes the rules more uniform between leagues. I know the argument against that, but the argument for uniformity is the same one for dropping the 40-man roster. It monkeys with results...

My two biggest concerns: 1) Baseball doesn't need new rules, and 2) Bullpenning nee pitcher-by-committee/johnny allstaff/etc isn't new and it's a kind of fascinating aspect of the game dictated by unusual circumstances.

I understand the worry that bullpenning, if it spread, could wreck the sport but Wedge explained it really well. It's virtually impossible for a team to be in position where it would TRY to do this because it would require a roster of far too many pitchers.

MLB and the MLBPA did this to themselves via expansion. There are too many teams and not enough major league-ready pitchers, especially starters. The game cycles (and apparently so does the baseball); there are better ways to fix this than a bunch of complicated new rules. One of them is an expanded roster - definitely in favor of that over the end-of-season 40.

I think one thing that we'd see if they do have expanded rosters is a set limit on # of pitchers.... I mean because ok they say we're going to 27 players. Great. 2 more relievers per team. Not exactly what they want to accomplish. And if they didn't have a limit on pitchers, it would be easier to do the bullpenning crap. Especially if they don't fix the 10 day DL crap.

I just think MLB wants to rein this in....

It sure sounds like there's some smoke on the Nats increasing their offer for Bryce Harper....

Man- Nats with Harper back, along with Corbin/Sanchez for the rotation, Rosenthal and Barraclaugh helping in the pen, and then Gomes/Suzuki behind the plate- that's a really improved team from the end of last season. Then add in guys like Matt Adams coming back and a key guy- Howie Kendrick returning from tearing his achillies- and wow..... Then have Eaton to possibly trade???

(01-05-2019 01:34 AM)stever20 Wrote:  It sure sounds like there's some smoke on the Nats increasing their offer for Bryce Harper....

Man- Nats with Harper back, along with Corbin/Sanchez for the rotation, Rosenthal and Barraclaugh helping in the pen, and then Gomes/Suzuki behind the plate- that's a really improved team from the end of last season. Then add in guys like Matt Adams coming back and a key guy- Howie Kendrick returning from tearing his achillies- and wow..... Then have Eaton to possibly trade???

I think the Nats have to be the early favorite in the NLeast heading into this season.

(01-03-2019 12:09 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And the Reds got robbed...

All the Dodgers did was dump salary so they could go after the player they really wanted.

I get that Puig is still young enough where he could fulfill some of his potential and Wood is a solid pitcher, but neither of those guys are likely to make a club that much better. That and Kemp is old...any improvement he brings will be short-lived.

please. it was a win win for both clubs. the reds aren't really out anything. it's just to get the club competitive for the future. all we got was stop gaps for some hopefully everyday starters and they have the cash to be competitive for puig. say what you want about yasiel, but he's a solid player. i actually envisioned him a red sooner for some reason. kemp is going to make a solid part time player. we don't have a center so we'll see what life is like after billy hamilton

you won't find a reds fan unhappy with this move

(01-05-2019 02:15 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 12:09 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And the Reds got robbed...

All the Dodgers did was dump salary so they could go after the player they really wanted.

I get that Puig is still young enough where he could fulfill some of his potential and Wood is a solid pitcher, but neither of those guys are likely to make a club that much better. That and Kemp is old...any improvement he brings will be short-lived.

please. it was a win win for both clubs. the reds aren't really out anything. it's just to get the club competitive for the future. all we got was stop gaps for some hopefully everyday starters and they have the cash to be competitive for puig. say what you want about yasiel, but he's a solid player. i actually envisioned him a red sooner for some reason. kemp is going to make a solid part time player. we don't have a center so we'll see what life is like after billy hamilton

you won't find a reds fan unhappy with this move

I'll honestly be surprised if Kemp is still on the roster come the end of the summer

(01-05-2019 10:06 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 02:15 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 12:09 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And the Reds got robbed...

All the Dodgers did was dump salary so they could go after the player they really wanted.

I get that Puig is still young enough where he could fulfill some of his potential and Wood is a solid pitcher, but neither of those guys are likely to make a club that much better. That and Kemp is old...any improvement he brings will be short-lived.

please. it was a win win for both clubs. the reds aren't really out anything. it's just to get the club competitive for the future. all we got was stop gaps for some hopefully everyday starters and they have the cash to be competitive for puig. say what you want about yasiel, but he's a solid player. i actually envisioned him a red sooner for some reason. kemp is going to make a solid part time player. we don't have a center so we'll see what life is like after billy hamilton

you won't find a reds fan unhappy with this move

I'll honestly be surprised if Kemp is still on the roster come the end of the summer

The only OF they’ve got better than him right now is Puig. I can see him being pushed down (or off) roster if one/some of their younger talent looks ready to go but as strange as it sounds the guy does make them better than they were.

(01-06-2019 12:35 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 10:06 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 02:15 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 12:09 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And the Reds got robbed...

All the Dodgers did was dump salary so they could go after the player they really wanted.

I get that Puig is still young enough where he could fulfill some of his potential and Wood is a solid pitcher, but neither of those guys are likely to make a club that much better. That and Kemp is old...any improvement he brings will be short-lived.

please. it was a win win for both clubs. the reds aren't really out anything. it's just to get the club competitive for the future. all we got was stop gaps for some hopefully everyday starters and they have the cash to be competitive for puig. say what you want about yasiel, but he's a solid player. i actually envisioned him a red sooner for some reason. kemp is going to make a solid part time player. we don't have a center so we'll see what life is like after billy hamilton

you won't find a reds fan unhappy with this move

I'll honestly be surprised if Kemp is still on the roster come the end of the summer

The only OF they’ve got better than him right now is Puig. I can see him being pushed down (or off) roster if one/some of their younger talent looks ready to go but as strange as it sounds the guy does make them better than they were.

You mean the version of Kemp with a .339 BABIP. What if it slips back down to what it was in the 3 previous years? Then you're looking at a player who's worth less than 1 win.

(01-06-2019 05:26 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 12:35 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 10:06 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 02:15 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 12:09 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And the Reds got robbed...

All the Dodgers did was dump salary so they could go after the player they really wanted.

I get that Puig is still young enough where he could fulfill some of his potential and Wood is a solid pitcher, but neither of those guys are likely to make a club that much better. That and Kemp is old...any improvement he brings will be short-lived.

please. it was a win win for both clubs. the reds aren't really out anything. it's just to get the club competitive for the future. all we got was stop gaps for some hopefully everyday starters and they have the cash to be competitive for puig. say what you want about yasiel, but he's a solid player. i actually envisioned him a red sooner for some reason. kemp is going to make a solid part time player. we don't have a center so we'll see what life is like after billy hamilton

you won't find a reds fan unhappy with this move

I'll honestly be surprised if Kemp is still on the roster come the end of the summer

The only OF they’ve got better than him right now is Puig. I can see him being pushed down (or off) roster if one/some of their younger talent looks ready to go but as strange as it sounds the guy does make them better than they were.

You mean the version of Kemp with a .339 BABIP. What if it slips back down to what it was in the 3 previous years? Then you're looking at a player who's worth less than 1 win.

The Reds bring back exactly one OF who had > 1.0 WAR last year (Schebler at 1.1). The guy they have listed in front of Kemp (Winker) was at 0.9 last year (admittedly, in 89 games). This is not a defense of Kemp; it's an indictment of the Reds outfield. Kemp, as bad as he is, still adds depth they simply haven't had.

(01-05-2019 02:15 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 12:09 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And the Reds got robbed...

All the Dodgers did was dump salary so they could go after the player they really wanted.

I get that Puig is still young enough where he could fulfill some of his potential and Wood is a solid pitcher, but neither of those guys are likely to make a club that much better. That and Kemp is old...any improvement he brings will be short-lived.

please. it was a win win for both clubs. the reds aren't really out anything. it's just to get the club competitive for the future. all we got was stop gaps for some hopefully everyday starters and they have the cash to be competitive for puig. say what you want about yasiel, but he's a solid player. i actually envisioned him a red sooner for some reason. kemp is going to make a solid part time player. we don't have a center so we'll see what life is like after billy hamilton

you won't find a reds fan unhappy with this move

The Reds were 28 games below .500. How are any of these players supposed to make that team competitive?

I'm not saying any of these guys suck, I'm not going that far. With that said, Kemp is 34 and declining. Where's the future value? Wood has already had Tommy John once and his velocity is down from just 3 years ago. I mean, he's only 28, but has been on the DL plenty. Just as a side note, if the Braves trade away a pitcher after developing him then you can bet there's a problem. Puig is an overall solid player, but has a low OBP and hasn't proven he's capable of adjusting to date. Even if the Reds re-sign him, so what?

I can't find the figures, but it also sounds like the Reds took on salary for this.

There's no point in trading prospects for that sort of haul. Believe me, the Braves were making pointless moves like this a few years ago after the glory days died out. Lots of salary and little production...

(01-06-2019 12:35 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 10:06 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 02:15 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 12:09 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And the Reds got robbed...

All the Dodgers did was dump salary so they could go after the player they really wanted.

I get that Puig is still young enough where he could fulfill some of his potential and Wood is a solid pitcher, but neither of those guys are likely to make a club that much better. That and Kemp is old...any improvement he brings will be short-lived.

please. it was a win win for both clubs. the reds aren't really out anything. it's just to get the club competitive for the future. all we got was stop gaps for some hopefully everyday starters and they have the cash to be competitive for puig. say what you want about yasiel, but he's a solid player. i actually envisioned him a red sooner for some reason. kemp is going to make a solid part time player. we don't have a center so we'll see what life is like after billy hamilton

you won't find a reds fan unhappy with this move

I'll honestly be surprised if Kemp is still on the roster come the end of the summer

The only OF they’ve got better than him right now is Puig. I can see him being pushed down (or off) roster if one/some of their younger talent looks ready to go but as strange as it sounds the guy does make them better than they were.

jesse winker is the most coveted youngster and nick senzel's gonna have to play center due to he needs to play and cf is the only spot open to him. throw puig in left i suppose since winker can't field and that's a pretty formidable eight. kemp and schebler in spot duty. the pitching is a concern and hopefully wood won't have to reinvent himself. as far as i know, the bullpen is still intact. i believe they were amongst the best in baseball last year

even if their record was worse than the previous year, there was improvement thru attrition. votto is the only holdover. it's kinda silly, we're still a capable offense even without joey being joey. for the sake of baseball, he needs to get back to being joey. i do not believe that tree is sapped

Grandal signs 1 year deal with the Brewers.....

What a huge mistake he made not taking the QO from the Dodgers.

(01-09-2019 11:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Grandal signs 1 year deal with the Brewers.....

What a huge mistake he made not taking the QO from the Dodgers.

Well, he got an extra $350k.

Seriously though, this is not a huge mistake. He didn’t lose any money. As far as I can tell, the huge mistake was not taking the Mets’ offer (assuming that was real). It’s telling though, I think, that he signed with MIL for basically the same $ LA offered. Presumably he could have gone back to the Dodgers and gotten the same or similar. Did they say no? Did he not ask? Seems strange to think he’d go to a team with a lower likelihood of making the post season, just for an extra $350K.

(01-09-2019 11:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Grandal signs 1 year deal with the Brewers.....

What a huge mistake he made not taking the QO from the Dodgers.

Why was it a huge mistake?

seeing the Nats sign Brian Dozier. Nice pickup for 2nd base.... Nats lineup, especially if Harper returns is long and it's strong. OF with Soto, Robles, Harper hopefully, then infield with Rendon, Turner, Dozier, Zimmerman/Adams. Gomes/Suzuki behind the plate. That's not bad at all....

Brian Dozier to the Nats for 1/9. Good pickup. He makes for solid depth and decent RH power. Can't ignore the roster spots between 15-40.

(01-10-2019 10:36 AM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 11:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Grandal signs 1 year deal with the Brewers.....

What a huge mistake he made not taking the QO from the Dodgers.

Why was it a huge mistake?

well for one he now can still be offered the QO and have the draft compensation tied with him. Meanwhile Ryu next year can't.

(01-10-2019 10:38 AM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  Brian Dozier to the Nats for 1/9. Good pickup. He makes for solid depth and decent RH power. Can't ignore the roster spots between 15-40.

I'd assume he'll be the regular 2b. allows Kendrick to be utility guy.

Bench will be Kenrick, Difo, Taylor, Suzuki, and Adams.

If Nats got Harper back, look for Eaton and or Taylor to be dealt.