(12-31-2018 09:23 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  Dump UL and add UCONN. Call it a day.

Yep, and the message will be delivered by flying pigs.

(12-31-2018 09:05 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 02:30 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 02:21 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 01:26 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 12:03 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  No, No, No, a thousand times NO.

Not only does the current arrangement work fine as is, the plan you outline above appears to rely on keeping a divisional set-up which I see as THE major problem the ACC needs to address moving forward.

Cheers,
Neil

Keeping the current division is essential to bait Notre Dame. We only promise Notre Dame that they will not be in the same division with Clemson and Florida State. If Notre Dame thinks they can handle Miami and Virginia Tech then go to conference championship game almost every year and it turns out that they can't, it is Notre Dame's problem.

Was the Coastal division designed partially (a very small part) to potentially entice ND to the table? I will concede that as a minute possibility. Which is why I was convinced when Pitt and SU joined the league Pitt would get the Coastal while SU would get the Atlantic despite it making much better sense in terms of geography to go the other way around.

But, Miami has still not recovered and VT which was the saving grace of the league in the mid-to-late 00s through early 10s (with all of FSU, Miami, and Clemson being down) has had their own problems since 2011. ND prides itself not only on its independence but on the strength of its schedules year in and year out. They don't want to get into the CFP "the easy way". Me, as an Orange fan, will take anyway we can get for us to be there.

So despite the enticing geographical and academic pluses the Coastal has, ND isn't going to give up its cherished independence in order to play more so-so Coastal teams and then get their butts handed to them by Clemson or Florida State in the ACCCG, immediately removing themselves from the CFP as a result of that 13th game. They just aren't. They'd rather roll the dice on their season ending PAC match-up in California.

Now add in the fact that no Coastal team has come close to sniffing either the BCS Championship Game or CFP 4-team playoff since VT in 2007 is proof enough for me.

Cheers,
Neil

The Coastal was designed to make UNC/Duke/UVa happy. They got the weaker of the Florida programs and they got to monopolize recruiting appearances in Pa, Georgia and Virginia and they avoided having to play in the Carrier Dome or in Alumni in Boston. It's one of the things that pissed off Maryland, but not near as much as other things.

Some of it was predicated on how each school filled its football stadium at the time (2002/03). Some of it was predicated on hoping to breath life into the UNC-Ch program. Some of it was predicated on keeping old rivalries intact.

The ideal division for ND does indeed include Miami, GT, and Pitt, but it also includes BC. Past that they probably would prefer WF, UVa, and UNC and in that order.

Ideal ND 8 ACC school division - ND, Miami, Pitt, BC, GT, WF, UVa, UNC and that leaves another division with FSU, Clemson, VT, NCSU, Duke, Louisville, Syracuse and one other. That's grossly unbalanced.

ND wants to appear in as many far flung metros as possible. The above gives them Boston, Atlanta, Miami, and Pittsburgh and sometimes Charlotte.

An ideal Clemson 8 (if you listen to Kaplony) would included FSU, Miami, GT, ND, Pitt, Lousiville, UNC, and NCSU

Clemson wants to maximize the demand for home football tickets so they want folks to travel to them so that means no small privates.

An ideal VT 8 would be UVa, UNC, NCSU, WF, Duke, Pitt, GT, Miami, and ND

VT's big thing was appearances in the State of NC plus Miami and ND.

When you multiply these variables by all the schools, it's tough to satisfy. But in any formula, you have to start with Carolina and them playing Duke, NC State, and UVa on an annual basis. Then go from there.

NCSU was always a late September/early October game that nobody in Chapel Hill paid much attention to. If the "conference" didn't insist on making the Carolina-State game a rivalry, it wouldn't be.

I agree, 3 wins against State in the last 12 years isn't a rivalry.

I was going to post another thought to this thread, but as usual it is turning into another anti-northern school, anti-former Big East school thread. That’s one of the reasons I dropped off for a while. I get it. Some old school ACC fans don’t like the expansion into the north.But we are here now. I think the divisions could be retooled. But I don’t know if that would please anyone.

Back to the original post; Notre Dame will not be joining the conference full time. And if some of their big time boosters have a problem with the current setup, too bad. In my opinion Notre Dame gets more from this contract then the ACC gets back. Both get benefits. But I have no sympathy for the Irish.

(12-31-2018 02:30 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 02:21 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 01:26 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 12:03 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 10:14 PM)ArQ Wrote:  The blowout by Clemson must make ND feel vulnerable and insecure. Maybe this is the time to ask ND join ACC football. I will propose:

1. ACC expand to 16. ND joins Coastal. UConn joins Atlantic.

2. Only 7 division games decides division championship. Cross division games count as out-of-conference games. Schools can choose 0, 1 or 2 cross-division games on their own. In ND's case, they will choose play the minimal 7 ACC games and leave them five open OOC game slots.

3. ND can still have its private contract with NBC for their home games. But in return, all revenues on their road games belong to ACC network.

What do you think? Will they bite? They keep what they want the most, NBC money and national exposure. Still quite independent.

No, No, No, a thousand times NO.

Not only does the current arrangement work fine as is, the plan you outline above appears to rely on keeping a divisional set-up which I see as THE major problem the ACC needs to address moving forward.

Cheers,
Neil

Keeping the current division is essential to bait Notre Dame. We only promise Notre Dame that they will not be in the same division with Clemson and Florida State. If Notre Dame thinks they can handle Miami and Virginia Tech then go to conference championship game almost every year and it turns out that they can't, it is Notre Dame's problem.

Was the Coastal division designed partially (a very small part) to potentially entice ND to the table? I will concede that as a minute possibility. Which is why I was convinced when Pitt and SU joined the league Pitt would get the Coastal while SU would get the Atlantic despite it making much better sense in terms of geography to go the other way around.

But, Miami has still not recovered and VT which was the saving grace of the league in the mid-to-late 00s through early 10s (with all of FSU, Miami, and Clemson being down) has had their own problems since 2011. ND prides itself not only on its independence but on the strength of its schedules year in and year out. They don't want to get into the CFP "the easy way". Me, as an Orange fan, will take anyway we can get for us to be there.

So despite the enticing geographical and academic pluses the Coastal has, ND isn't going to give up its cherished independence in order to play more so-so Coastal teams and then get their butts handed to them by Clemson or Florida State in the ACCCG, immediately removing themselves from the CFP as a result of that 13th game. They just aren't. They'd rather roll the dice on their season ending PAC match-up in California.

Now add in the fact that no Coastal team has come close to sniffing either the BCS Championship Game or CFP 4-team playoff since VT in 2007 is proof enough for me.

Cheers,
Neil

The Coastal was designed to make UNC/Duke/UVa happy. They got the weaker of the Florida programs and they got to monopolize recruiting appearances in Pa, Georgia and Virginia and they avoided having to play in the Carrier Dome or in Alumni in Boston. It's one of the things that pissed off Maryland, but not near as much as other things.

Some of it was predicated on how each school filled its football stadium at the time (2002/03). Some of it was predicated on hoping to breath life into the UNC-Ch program. Some of it was predicated on keeping old rivalries intact.

The ideal division for ND does indeed include Miami, GT, and Pitt, but it also includes BC. Past that they probably would prefer WF, UVa, and UNC and in that order.

Ideal ND 8 ACC school division - ND, Miami, Pitt, BC, GT, WF, UVa, UNC and that leaves another division with FSU, Clemson, VT, NCSU, Duke, Louisville, Syracuse and one other. That's grossly unbalanced.

ND wants to appear in as many far flung metros as possible. The above gives them Boston, Atlanta, Miami, and Pittsburgh and sometimes Charlotte.

An ideal Clemson 8 (if you listen to Kaplony) would included FSU, Miami, GT, ND, Pitt, Lousiville, UNC, and NCSU

Clemson wants to maximize the demand for home football tickets so they want folks to travel to them so that means no small privates.

An ideal VT 8 would be UVa, UNC, NCSU, WF, Duke, Pitt, GT, Miami, and ND

VT's big thing was appearances in the State of NC plus Miami and ND.

When you multiply these variables by all the schools, it's tough to satisfy. But in any formula, you have to start with Carolina and them playing Duke, NC State, and UVa on an annual basis. Then go from there.

You listed 9 teams for VT's 8. For me, it will be VT, UVa, Miami, UNC, GT, ND, one of the other 3 NC teams, and either FSU or Clemson. Pitt is not bad though. In other words, the current division is pretty good for VT.

(12-31-2018 09:23 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  Dump UL and add UCONN. Call it a day.

Why would the ACC do that?

Perhaps you don't realize that depending upon how you measure it (conference only games or ALL games) the Cardinals are either third or fifth in the league in terms of number of viewers? And that includes this year when they were putrid. And even over the next two years as they regroup, they probably won't fall too far down.

Now I suppose you could be concerned about the ACC's image, but then I realized you are an ECU fan, so that can't be it.

Cheers,
Neil

(12-31-2018 10:01 PM)texasorange Wrote:  I was going to post another thought to this thread, but as usual it is turning into another anti-northern school, anti-former Big East school thread. That’s one of the reasons I dropped off for a while. I get it. Some old school ACC fans don’t like the expansion into the north.But we are here now. I think the divisions could be retooled. But I don’t know if that would please anyone.

Back to the original post; Notre Dame will not be joining the conference full time. And if some of their big time boosters have a problem with the current setup, too bad. In my opinion Notre Dame gets more from this contract then the ACC gets back. Both get benefits. But I have no sympathy for the Irish.

Don't disagree with your sentiment about Irish fans. I only brought up that point to emphasize why ND going full-time in the ACC is problematic unless the unthinkable occurs. I actually have grown to like the current dynamic.

Cheers,
Neil

OK, ok... I'll ask them!

Notre Dame: would you like to join the ACC for football, too?

To entice Notre Dame, the ACC must offer something Notre Dame wants or needs. There is nothing the ACC can offer that meets those criteria.

(01-01-2019 11:47 AM)ken d Wrote:  To entice Notre Dame, the ACC must offer something Notre Dame wants or needs. There is nothing the ACC can offer that meets those criteria.

Nonsense!

(01-01-2019 12:23 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-01-2019 11:47 AM)ken d Wrote:  To entice Notre Dame, the ACC must offer something Notre Dame wants or needs. There is nothing the ACC can offer that meets those criteria.

Nonsense!

Neil

What does the ACC get out of 3 extra football games with ND? Very little that we do not get now. You know who lost from this in 2018, the B10. Notre Dame took Ohio State's spot in the playoff because ND would have had their ass whipped in Charlotte. That does not bother me.

(01-01-2019 12:32 PM)Statefan Wrote:  What does the ACC get out of 3 extra football games with ND? Very little that we do not get now. You know who lost from this in 2018, the B10. Notre Dame took Ohio State's spot in the playoff because ND would have had their ass whipped in Charlotte. That does not bother me.

This is a valid argument. Basically ACC sent two teams to CFP this year. But for how long will B1G stand such abuse?

Some things:

1) ND's loss in the playoffs will not do anything to move it towards joining the ACC in football;

2) There is no major bitching about the ACC/ND deal. Some yes, but nothing major (so don't use that board rumor to bash ND fans);

3) The NBC deal is important to ND more for its OTA nation wide reach than the money. ND could make as much or more by joining the ACC/ESPN and way more by joining the Big Ten. It is not going to do either. Why do people think that "ND gets to keep the NBC money" is a thing?

4) ND will join the ACC in football about ten minutes after a P4, champs only format is established.

(01-01-2019 12:50 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Some things:

1) ND's loss in the playoffs will not do anything to move it towards joining the ACC in football;

2) There is no major bitching about the ACC/ND deal. Some yes, but nothing major (so don't use that board rumor to bash ND fans);

3) The NBC deal is important to ND more for its OTA nation wide reach than the money. ND could make as much or more by joining the ACC/ESPN and way more by joining the Big Ten. It is not going to do either. Why do people think that "ND gets to keep the NBC money" is a thing?

4) ND will join the ACC in football about ten minutes after a P4, champs only format is established.

Agreed.

And put me down for one fan who thinks the current arrangement is fine.

All this "force ND to join a conference" stuff to me is kinda weird. Who cares what Notre Dame does? In fact ... if we could sell Texas on a similar arrangement, the ACC only gets better, in my opinion. So put me down for wanting MORE of this type deal, and not less.

(01-01-2019 12:32 PM)Statefan Wrote:  What does the ACC get out of 3 extra football games with ND? Very little that we do not get now. You know who lost from this in 2018, the B10. Notre Dame took Ohio State's spot in the playoff because ND would have had their ass whipped in Charlotte. That does not bother me.

THIS. I predict the only change which will come about as a result of this year's playoffs will be playoff expansion to 8 with the P5 champs guaranteed auto-bids (or a slim chance of 4 teams, champs-only -- but everyone knows that would drive Notre Dame into the ACC for football).

(01-01-2019 01:06 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-01-2019 12:32 PM)Statefan Wrote:  What does the ACC get out of 3 extra football games with ND? Very little that we do not get now. You know who lost from this in 2018, the B10. Notre Dame took Ohio State's spot in the playoff because ND would have had their ass whipped in Charlotte. That does not bother me.

THIS. I predict the only change which will come about as a result of this year's playoffs will be playoff expansion to 8 with the P5 champs guaranteed auto-bids (or a slim chance of 4 teams, champs-only -- but everyone knows that would drive Notre Dame into the ACC for football).

If B1G are smart, they will advocate the 8 team play off to prevent ND from joining ACC. And hope a Black Swan event driving ND to join B1G.

(12-30-2018 10:14 PM)ArQ Wrote:  UConn joins Atlantic.

(12-31-2018 09:26 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 09:23 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  Dump UL and add UCONN. Call it a day.

Yep, and the message will be delivered by flying pigs.

Keep UofL, add Cincy, and you can deliver the message any way you want.

(01-01-2019 02:11 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 09:26 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 09:23 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  Dump UL and add UCONN. Call it a day.

Yep, and the message will be delivered by flying pigs.

Keep UofL, add Cincy, and you can deliver the message any way you want.

Nah, we're good, but thanks for your continued interest.

(01-01-2019 03:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-01-2019 02:11 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 09:26 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 09:23 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  Dump UL and add UCONN. Call it a day.

Yep, and the message will be delivered by flying pigs.

Keep UofL, add Cincy, and you can deliver the message any way you want.

Nah, we're good, but thanks for your continued interest.

It may be time for the B12 to revisit expansion, UCF & Cincinnati would at least help WV out.


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