The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(10-16-2018 07:37 AM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  

(10-15-2018 08:41 PM)Ring of Black Wrote:  I'm more surprised that a guy named Romell Shorter isn't, instead, saying "Thank you Tony Yates", for giving him a scholarship.

Yates: great Bearcat player. Terrible coach. He gave Roger McClendon way too much of MY playing time. I would have been an All-America if not for Yates.

Ah, Roger McClendon. One of the last true "student athletes" at UC in basketball. Not many engineers on the court these days.

(10-16-2018 07:46 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Most UC fans, recognize the historic greatness of UC basketball, but don't expect results commensurate with today's handful of blue bloods--Duke, UNC or UK. I think that's the wrong argument.

I would also suggest most UC fans aren't looking to run Mick out of town on a rail. The concern for many has been, and remains, focused solely on NCAA Tournament performance. That small, private school with little historic tradition in Norwood is certainly no blue blood. Yet they've consistently outperformed UC in the NCAA tournament since 2004 with "coach du jour". Three Elite Eights and four Sweet Sixteens during that period by my count.

Has UC's tournament performance during this same period simply been "bad" luck?...a recruiting issue?...coaching strategy and tactics? Those dissatisfied with NCAA results need not compare our program to ones in Durham, Chapel Hill or Lexington. Look no farther than Victory Parkway to ponder why their folks have had more to crow about (most) of the past 14 years.

It's telling that you chose 2004 as your relevant time frame.

In any event, it's really not been bad luck for UC in the tournament under Cronin. They have generally played to their seed. They didn't last year or when they lost to Harvard in, but they played above their seed when they beat Florida St. and made the Sweet 16. They haven't had any good luck until this year, when the bracket blew up right in front of them. Alas.

XU, on the other hand, has performed well in the tournament largely because they've had great luck. They have played above their seed level a few times and made some great runs, like in 2017 and 2004. But 3 of their Sweet 16s came from playing double-digit seeds in the second round. They did what they had to do, of course. But it's not exactly insightful to just point to XU and say, "Why can't UC do that?"

(10-16-2018 04:52 AM)crex043 Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 01:34 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(10-15-2018 09:49 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  

(10-15-2018 07:50 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(10-15-2018 07:20 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  Blue chips play in the NBA, blue chips don't give a flying **** about March. If they did, Ben Simmons wouldn't have gone to LSU. Johnny Jones, Will -whatever his name is and Trent Johnson before them have done butt **** nothing in March and they still have better recruiting classes than us the past few years. You know why? Because kids would rather go to LSU than UC. We aren't an NBA pipeline and we aren't a party school. Resign yourself to that fact sir...

Tell that to UK/Duke/KU/UNC....you must be blind AND deaf....we used to be mentioned in the same neighborhood with those programs...

We used to be an NBA pipeline. Then your people blew it up...ON PURPOSE!!

Good coaches don't grow on trees--that's why when you have a proven winner you move heaven and earth to KEEP him because of the value to the program.

Don't blame me for your mistakes.

Uh... 1. Did it occur to you that this isn't 1996? The last half of the Huggins years were bleh. Thunder lizards used to walk across the fern covered marshes where the Bengals currently play. That doesn't imply anything about our present situation.
2. Those schools you mentioned worship the sport, have a completely different culture and campus life than we do.
3. Hiring any coach isn't going to turn us into Duke or UNC. You can't just choose to be that. At that point you might as well be saying "If we click our heels together and really believe... " Dude, how many high school basketball stars do you think have Clifton in their top 10?

It doesn't matter to an 18 year old that Nick Van Exel or Kenyon Martin went here. You might as well be talking to them about president Coolidge or the new fangled horseless buggies going down the road. It's irrelevant. The fact is there can only be so many blue bloods and the ones that became that way took more than the right coach to do it.

As for my previous post, you said blue chips care about March, they obviously don't if there headed to lesser SEC schools. Look at the top 25 recruiting classes the last 5 years and you'll see they get 5 stars. At some point saying "but Huggins... " is a lot like Loyola/Chicago bragging on pre WW2 NCAA success. No one cares.

Got to love your mindset...we can't do it so we should be happy continuing to suck.

Excellent way to promote progress.

With an attitude like that, you may as well shut down the program.

Of course that might be what you're after to begin with since you ceaselessly defend mediocrity and claim it's our ceiling.

Since you are so happy with the state of things as they are, why don't you argue for a reduction in resources dedicated to the program--cut the cost of the program by slashing the payout to the coaches and reduce the number of scholarships. In fact, why not argue to go full-on IVY and eliminate those athletic scholarships altogether--then you'd have all the snoot appeal you seem to crave at a fraction of the cost.

People with your attitude are worthless.

Man, you just be a real joy to take in a basketball game with. I'm not sure who is more insane... You or real Duane. Only insane people deal in absolutes, and you believe if we aren't spending Duke or UNC money that we should shut the whole program down.

All that $$ is going to FB. I'd like to see just a quarter of it go into a coaching search for an up-and-comer or a solid proven coach who's run into a temporary lull. Crean or Matta would be excellent IMHO. Or choose any ex-lottery pick with coaching experience that came through the program.

Try something different...it worked when we went from Yates to Huggins...there's no reason it can't work again.

Success in MBB follows the coach more than the program these days. Examples are abundant:

Lon Krueger
Pitino
Calipari
Williams
Self
Beilein
Huggins

Where they go, success follows. Proven track records mean something.

Throw some coin down--pull in a name with cred. Try something new.

Don't just bury your head in the sand and say "it can't be done--it's Cronin or nobody".

What are you going to do when Cronin moves on? Quit? Panic?

There's a whole world out there for the brave. I'll go with that mindset any day.

(10-16-2018 01:34 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  Got to love your mindset...we can't do it so we should be happy continuing to suck.

Excellent way to promote progress.

With an attitude like that, you may as well shut down the program.

Look in a mirror and say that.
"We're either Duke or we suck" is basically what you're arguing. You're deluded.
I hate to think of what happens the first time you miss out on a parking space or someone eats the last doughnut at your office.
You'd probably suffer a mental breakdown or throw yourself out a window.
You know, I used to have a gym teacher who sold me the same positive thought BS... "with an attitude like that..." There's a lot of starving kids in Asia and Africa, I don't think it's because they have ****** attitudes, I think it's an issue of macro-economics and societal/cultural conditions and structures.
There's a lot of teams that aren't Duke, and I don't think it's because of their attitudes or because of one head coach. It took time and incremental progress, not impulsively firing whoever.


You're like a little kid bitching how awful his parents are because he got his ice cream but no toy. I'd like to drop you off someplace for an hour and comeback when you return to reality.. but I don't know what the equivalent of that would be here. Like what would you do if you were a Miami U. fan? Throw rocks at the administration and slash tires? Maybe set yourself on fire like that monk who protested the Vietnam war?

Wow! I start a positive thread, that has turned into the typical internet intellectual turd discussion. Yet, people think I am a troll.

(10-17-2018 06:06 AM)Recluse1 Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 01:34 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  Got to love your mindset...we can't do it so we should be happy continuing to suck.

Excellent way to promote progress.

With an attitude like that, you may as well shut down the program.

Look in a mirror and say that.
"We're either Duke or we suck" is basically what you're arguing. You're deluded.
I hate to think of what happens the first time you miss out on a parking space or someone eats the last doughnut at your office.
You'd probably suffer a mental breakdown or throw yourself out a window.
You know, I used to have a gym teacher who sold me the same positive thought BS... "with an attitude like that..." There's a lot of starving kids in Asia and Africa, I don't think it's because they have ****** attitudes, I think it's an issue of macro-economics and societal/cultural conditions and structures.
There's a lot of teams that aren't Duke, and I don't think it's because of their attitudes or because of one head coach. It took time and incremental progress, not impulsively firing whoever.


You're like a little kid bitching how awful his parents are because he got his ice cream but no toy. I'd like to drop you off someplace for an hour and comeback when you return to reality.. but I don't know what the equivalent of that would be here. Like what would you do if you were a Miami U. fan? Throw rocks at the administration and slash tires? Maybe set yourself on fire like that monk who protested the Vietnam war?

Recluse, I don't speak for everyone but I think a lot of people watch sports and post on message boards to ESCAPE the real world.


We all wanna sit here and think we have a better perspective than the next poster but it just boils down to the name on the chest: Cincinnati.

We are a top 25 winningest program in the last decade. But out of those 25 winningest programs, we only have more NCAA Tournament wins than St. Mary's, BYU, Stephen F. Austin, and Belmont. It's a great problem to have, yet a problem nonetheless.

(10-17-2018 08:13 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Recluse, I don't speak for everyone but I think a lot of people watch sports and post on message boards to ESCAPE the real world.

We are a top 25 winningest program in the last decade. But out of those 25 winningest programs, we only have more NCAA Tournament wins than St. Mary's, BYU, Stephen F. Austin, and Belmont. It's a great problem to have, yet a problem nonetheless.

I get that, but there's still a line between reasonable criticism and Not Duane-land.
I would like it if we had more success in the tournament, but I really don't think saying "Be top 5 or just give up!", "if we fired Mick and got someone new, their "cred" would magically make it the mid 90s again" is a reasonable response.
Nor, for that matter is saying the BOT and academic crowd sabotaged the program and Huggins. Dude imploded just fine on his own.

I realize we're fans, but I'd be a fan regardless of what level they perform at. Currently, their performing damn well for being in what is basically a mid level conference.

I don't think the list of posters who take Not Duane seriously is very long.

Reculse 1= Ellsworth Toohey

I don't dig your bag.

(10-17-2018 10:35 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  Reculse 1= Ellsworth Toohey

I don't dig your bag.

a fountainhead reference!

(10-17-2018 10:35 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  Reculse 1= Ellsworth Toohey

I don't dig your bag.

You're no Howard Roark. The first time a zoning committee turned you down and you couldn't build where you wanted, you'd blame everyone else for not allowing you to knock over the local orphanage to build your tacky, over budget hotel/casino/spa/coffee house mega complex; even when it becomes apparent you couldn't foot the bill on gas and utilities. You're just terrible...
Luckily, you're not in charge of the athletic department. So there's solace in that.

(10-17-2018 02:23 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  

(10-17-2018 10:35 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  Reculse 1= Ellsworth Toohey

I don't dig your bag.

You're no Howard Roark. The first time a zoning committee turned you down and you couldn't build where you wanted, you'd blame everyone else for not allowing you to knock over the local orphanage to build your tacky, over budget hotel/casino/spa/coffee house mega complex; even when it becomes apparent you couldn't foot the bill on gas and utilities. You're just terrible...
Luckily, you're not in charge of the athletic department. So there's solace in that.

I don't worship mediocrity. Many feel the same way and their $$ speak volumes...

(10-17-2018 06:06 AM)Recluse1 Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 01:34 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  Got to love your mindset...we can't do it so we should be happy continuing to suck.

Excellent way to promote progress.

With an attitude like that, you may as well shut down the program.

Look in a mirror and say that.
"We're either Duke or we suck" is basically what you're arguing. You're deluded.
I hate to think of what happens the first time you miss out on a parking space or someone eats the last doughnut at your office.
You'd probably suffer a mental breakdown or throw yourself out a window.
You know, I used to have a gym teacher who sold me the same positive thought BS... "with an attitude like that..." There's a lot of starving kids in Asia and Africa, I don't think it's because they have ****** attitudes, I think it's an issue of macro-economics and societal/cultural conditions and structures.
There's a lot of teams that aren't Duke, and I don't think it's because of their attitudes or because of one head coach. It took time and incremental progress, not impulsively firing whoever.


You're like a little kid bitching how awful his parents are because he got his ice cream but no toy. I'd like to drop you off someplace for an hour and comeback when you return to reality.. but I don't know what the equivalent of that would be here. Like what would you do if you were a Miami U. fan? Throw rocks at the administration and slash tires? Maybe set yourself on fire like that monk who protested the Vietnam war?

How humorous..."my program, my program, right or wrong, my program". That gets you stuck in a lot of blind alleys.

So you're saying to those starving kids in Africa and Asia that they should be satisfied with their situation and just give up?

You are laughably off-base. You seem to bristle at the idea of risk-taking for greater reward. Progress with that attitude is virtually non-existent. I'd rather try to improve my situation rather than sit around and accept that sub-par is my lot in life.

I can just visualize the title of your first book:

"Don't even Try--it's Pointless" I'm sure it will jump off the shelves.

I'm not even arguing that we approach Duke--although I would welcome the attempt...I'm just arguing for improved post-season performance...how about we try to be....Xavier...

Seems reasonable and achievable.

One of the biggest arguments against your position is that the program DID pull itself out of the doldrums by hiring an up-and-coming coach. We went from afterthought to top ten inside of 8 years, with consistent improvement each year.

Cronin isn't improving--he's flatlined. He's brought UC up to the level of a high mid-major...he's basically performed as expected given his previous track record.

Showing him the door would hardly be impulsive--we have 12 years of data upon which to render a decision. If he tanks this year I predict he'll likely be asked to seek employment elsewhere--which would be a wise move for the AD.

He's long overdue to perform, and with a new arena and no more excuses--he better produce.

The AD has bills to pay.

(10-17-2018 05:18 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(10-17-2018 06:06 AM)Recluse1 Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 01:34 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  Got to love your mindset...we can't do it so we should be happy continuing to suck.

Excellent way to promote progress.

With an attitude like that, you may as well shut down the program.

Look in a mirror and say that.
"We're either Duke or we suck" is basically what you're arguing. You're deluded.
I hate to think of what happens the first time you miss out on a parking space or someone eats the last doughnut at your office.
You'd probably suffer a mental breakdown or throw yourself out a window.
You know, I used to have a gym teacher who sold me the same positive thought BS... "with an attitude like that..." There's a lot of starving kids in Asia and Africa, I don't think it's because they have ****** attitudes, I think it's an issue of macro-economics and societal/cultural conditions and structures.
There's a lot of teams that aren't Duke, and I don't think it's because of their attitudes or because of one head coach. It took time and incremental progress, not impulsively firing whoever.


You're like a little kid bitching how awful his parents are because he got his ice cream but no toy. I'd like to drop you off someplace for an hour and comeback when you return to reality.. but I don't know what the equivalent of that would be here. Like what would you do if you were a Miami U. fan? Throw rocks at the administration and slash tires? Maybe set yourself on fire like that monk who protested the Vietnam war?

How humorous..."my program, my program, right or wrong, my program". That gets you stuck in a lot of blind alleys.

So you're saying to those starving kids in Africa and Asia that they should be satisfied with their situation and just give up?

You are laughably off-base. You seem to bristle at the idea of risk-taking for greater reward. Progress with that attitude is virtually non-existent. I'd rather try to improve my situation rather than sit around and accept that sub-par is my lot in life.

I can just visualize the title of your first book:

"Don't even Try--it's Pointless" I'm sure it will jump off the shelves.

I'm not even arguing that we approach Duke--although I would welcome the attempt...I'm just arguing for improved post-season performance...how about we try to be....Xavier...

Seems reasonable and achievable.

One of the biggest arguments against your position is that the program DID pull itself out of the doldrums by hiring an up-and-coming coach. We went from afterthought to top ten inside of 8 years, with consistent improvement each year.

Cronin isn't improving--he's flatlined. He's brought UC up to the level of a high mid-major...he's basically performed as expected given his previous track record.

Showing him the door would hardly be impulsive--we have 12 years of data upon which to render a decision. If he tanks this year I predict he'll likely be asked to seek employment elsewhere--which would be a wise move for the AD.

He's long overdue to perform, and with a new arena and no more excuses--he better produce.

The AD has bills to pay.

You cannot in business invest $85 million and accept mediocre results. No Sweet 16 and his time has past. 75-73 nuff said!

I don't think anyone should say anything negative about Mick until basketball season begins, and the team suffers its first setback.

(10-17-2018 06:06 AM)Recluse1 Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 01:34 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  Got to love your mindset...we can't do it so we should be happy continuing to suck.

Excellent way to promote progress.

With an attitude like that, you may as well shut down the program.

Look in a mirror and say that.
"We're either Duke or we suck" is basically what you're arguing. You're deluded.
I hate to think of what happens the first time you miss out on a parking space or someone eats the last doughnut at your office.
You'd probably suffer a mental breakdown or throw yourself out a window.
You know, I used to have a gym teacher who sold me the same positive thought BS... "with an attitude like that..." There's a lot of starving kids in Asia and Africa, I don't think it's because they have ****** attitudes, I think it's an issue of macro-economics and societal/cultural conditions and structures.
There's a lot of teams that aren't Duke, and I don't think it's because of their attitudes or because of one head coach. It took time and incremental progress, not impulsively firing whoever.


You're like a little kid bitching how awful his parents are because he got his ice cream but no toy. I'd like to drop you off someplace for an hour and comeback when you return to reality.. but I don't know what the equivalent of that would be here. Like what would you do if you were a Miami U. fan? Throw rocks at the administration and slash tires? Maybe set yourself on fire like that monk who protested the Vietnam war?

Coincidentally, Ken Burns' "The Vietnam War" documentary is now on Netflix

bump. i think the biggest reason to cheer mick is that a program in the aac can't afford a bad hire. suddenly maybe we can't hand out two and half million reasons for obvious success

"Thanks Mick for carrying on the Cincinnati tradition."

(10-17-2018 06:08 PM)doss2 Wrote:  You cannot in business invest $85 million and accept mediocre results. No Sweet 16 and his time has past. 75-73 nuff said!

I believe that the $85+ million UC spent, as unfortunate as it may sound, may be the cost of maintaining the mediocrity we all are wishing against. Power 5 and non-Power 5 teams alike have been throwing building monies around for the last several years. $60M here, $85M there, $120M to renovate across several sports. Doing renovations on this level are no longer the outlier or the sign of a school making the next step to distinguish themselves from the pack. The kind of spending UC has done is more on par with trying to keep your head above water. Relatively speaking, UC is spending -- at best -- at a middle of the pack level and our results have been definitely above that. I don't remember the exact article or source, but didn't UC finish in the top portion of some list that noted we were one of the more value driven schools around based on the # of W's vs. the costs to get the W's?

(10-22-2018 12:27 PM)Cal1362 Wrote:  

(10-17-2018 06:08 PM)doss2 Wrote:  You cannot in business invest $85 million and accept mediocre results. No Sweet 16 and his time has past. 75-73 nuff said!

I believe that the $85+ million UC spent, as unfortunate as it may sound, may be the cost of maintaining the mediocrity we all are wishing against. Power 5 and non-Power 5 teams alike have been throwing building monies around for the last several years. $60M here, $85M there, $120M to renovate across several sports. Doing renovations on this level are no longer the outlier or the sign of a school making the next step to distinguish themselves from the pack. The kind of spending UC has done is more on par with trying to keep your head above water. Relatively speaking, UC is spending -- at best -- at a middle of the pack level and our results have been definitely above that. I don't remember the exact article or source, but didn't UC finish in the top portion of some list that noted we were one of the more value driven schools around based on the # of W's vs. the costs to get the W's?

Yep-- basically we spent $85M to "keep up with the Jones'". Everyone is building new facilities right now-- even in our league Houston, has been upgrading. We are not ahead buy any stretch of the imagination.