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odusteeler Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 06:58 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(10-04-2018 07:06 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(10-04-2018 06:28 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-04-2018 06:12 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  What if you eliminate swimming, which takes away from both so it’s fair to both sides.

We already have the pool. How much would you really save

Probably more than $1 million per year

Swimming does NOT have a million dollar budget.

Also eliminating women’s swimming would actually HURT the department’s title 9 progress.

If any sport is eliminated, it would most likely be Wrestling. Their budget is most likely the third highest men’s budget and they have a large roster.

Wrestling & volleyball will both compete in the be Jarrett gymnasium once complete. They aren’t going anywhere. If anything, they may realign conference affiliation to reduce travel. But for those that think we’re cutting sports, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. It’s not in the school’s or department’s best interest...
10-05-2018 08:12 AM
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odu09 Online
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Post: #82
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 08:12 AM)odusteeler Wrote:  Wrestling & volleyball will both compete in the be Jarrett gymnasium once complete. They aren’t going anywhere. If anything, they may realign conference affiliation to reduce travel. But for those that think we’re cutting sports, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. It’s not in the school’s or department’s best interest...

Agreed. As I said before, dress for the job you want, not the one you have.
10-05-2018 08:13 AM
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Post: #83
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 08:13 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:12 AM)odusteeler Wrote:  Wrestling & volleyball will both compete in the be Jarrett gymnasium once complete. They aren’t going anywhere. If anything, they may realign conference affiliation to reduce travel. But for those that think we’re cutting sports, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. It’s not in the school’s or department’s best interest...

Agreed. As I said before, dress for the job you want, not the one you have.

Does paying coaches a salary in line with "the job you want" count as "dressing for the job you want"?

Seems you are picking and choosing apparel. Winning big in football and basketball is a nice suit, shirt, and shoes. Supporting 20 sports is a nice pair of socks and underwear.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2018 10:56 AM by Monarchblue.)
10-05-2018 08:29 AM
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odu09 Online
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Post: #84
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 08:29 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:13 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:12 AM)odusteeler Wrote:  Wrestling & volleyball will both compete in the be Jarrett gymnasium once complete. They aren’t going anywhere. If anything, they may realign conference affiliation to reduce travel. But for those that think we’re cutting sports, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. It’s not in the school’s or department’s best interest...

Agreed. As I said before, dress for the job you want, not the one you have.

Does paying coaches a salary in line with "the job you want" count as "dressing for the job you want"?

Seems you are picking and choosing apparel. Winning big in football and basketball is a nice suit, shirt, and shoes. Supporting 20 sports is a nice pare of socks and underwear.

I would think bigger and better conferences (American) would want us competing in all their sports if they were to call us up, not just 2 of them.
10-05-2018 09:04 AM
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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #85
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 09:04 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:29 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:13 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:12 AM)odusteeler Wrote:  Wrestling & volleyball will both compete in the be Jarrett gymnasium once complete. They aren’t going anywhere. If anything, they may realign conference affiliation to reduce travel. But for those that think we’re cutting sports, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. It’s not in the school’s or department’s best interest...

Agreed. As I said before, dress for the job you want, not the one you have.

Does paying coaches a salary in line with "the job you want" count as "dressing for the job you want"?

Seems you are picking and choosing apparel. Winning big in football and basketball is a nice suit, shirt, and shoes. Supporting 20 sports is a nice pare of socks and underwear.

I would think bigger and better conferences (American) would want us competing in all their sports if they were to call us up, not just 2 of them.

I think that is a pretty myopic take on college athletics. They could give 2 ***** about a golf team if we have football and basketball teams that could compete for championships in their league from day 1.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2018 10:57 AM by Monarchblue.)
10-05-2018 10:55 AM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #86
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 10:55 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 09:04 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:29 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:13 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:12 AM)odusteeler Wrote:  Wrestling & volleyball will both compete in the be Jarrett gymnasium once complete. They aren’t going anywhere. If anything, they may realign conference affiliation to reduce travel. But for those that think we’re cutting sports, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. It’s not in the school’s or department’s best interest...

Agreed. As I said before, dress for the job you want, not the one you have.

Does paying coaches a salary in line with "the job you want" count as "dressing for the job you want"?

Seems you are picking and choosing apparel. Winning big in football and basketball is a nice suit, shirt, and shoes. Supporting 20 sports is a nice pare of socks and underwear.

I would think bigger and better conferences (American) would want us competing in all their sports if they were to call us up, not just 2 of them.

I think that is a pretty myopic take on college athletics. They could give 2 ***** about a golf team if we have football and basketball teams that could compete for championships in their league from day 1.

Actually I'd say that the myopic take is assuming that conferences and schools only care (or should only care) about football and basketball. Yes, those sports drive the bus, but they're not the only ones on board. There's a reason Tulane is in the American and not the Sun Belt or Southland despite having minimal success in the major sports. Or why Rutgers is in the Big 10 or Rice is a reasonable move-up candidate. There's also a reason why there's a requirement that D1 schools sponsor at least x number of sports.

ODU athletics is more than just a football and basketball franchise in branded uniforms. They, and every athletic department, represent their school every time they take a field or mat or court, and not just when they're on TV. They provide opportunities for prospective students and an outlet for current ones. They're not just trotting field hockey and swimming teams out there for the hell of it.

In essence, I think some people are saying "ODU should deemphasize or shut down programs I don't care about so they can put more money into the ones I do care about." At which point the question to them becomes: Do you support ODU athletics, or just the one or two teams you like to watch on Saturdays?
10-05-2018 11:55 AM
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cmett003 Online
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Post: #87
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 11:55 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 10:55 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 09:04 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:29 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:13 AM)odu09 Wrote:  Agreed. As I said before, dress for the job you want, not the one you have.

Does paying coaches a salary in line with "the job you want" count as "dressing for the job you want"?

Seems you are picking and choosing apparel. Winning big in football and basketball is a nice suit, shirt, and shoes. Supporting 20 sports is a nice pare of socks and underwear.

I would think bigger and better conferences (American) would want us competing in all their sports if they were to call us up, not just 2 of them.

I think that is a pretty myopic take on college athletics. They could give 2 ***** about a golf team if we have football and basketball teams that could compete for championships in their league from day 1.

Actually I'd say that the myopic take is assuming that conferences and schools only care (or should only care) about football and basketball. Yes, those sports drive the bus, but they're not the only ones on board. There's a reason Tulane is in the American and not the Sun Belt or Southland despite having minimal success in the major sports. Or why Rutgers is in the Big 10 or Rice is a reasonable move-up candidate. There's also a reason why there's a requirement that D1 schools sponsor at least x number of sports.

ODU athletics is more than just a football and basketball franchise in branded uniforms. They, and every athletic department, represent their school every time they take a field or mat or court, and not just when they're on TV. They provide opportunities for prospective students and an outlet for current ones. They're not just trotting field hockey and swimming teams out there for the hell of it.

In essence, I think some people are saying "ODU should deemphasize or shut down programs I don't care about so they can put more money into the ones I do care about." At which point the question to them becomes: Do you support ODU athletics, or just the one or two teams you like to watch on Saturdays?

I get your point but you are just a little off base. Yes we all care about ODU athletics as a whole but I don't spend thousands of dollars each year to go watch women's lacrosse or men's wrestling. Its great when all other sports do well and yes that can help with conference affiliation but in the grand scheme of college sports and the money world they don't mean much other than some bragging points. Ex. "We have a good field hockey program because we won 9 NCAA championships". But did those 9 field hockey championships change ODU for the better? I would say yes but only minimally. If ODU goes to the Final Four in basketball or the College Football Playoff I think it would change the University's image forever. All sports matter but not all sports are equal, and that is just something you are going to have to except. No one is saying to shut down all ODU non-revenue sports and put all the money into football and basketball. However I am saying that a sport like swimming is an acceptable casualty if it would help ODU football become more successful.
10-05-2018 12:11 PM
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Post: #88
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 11:55 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 10:55 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 09:04 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:29 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:13 AM)odu09 Wrote:  Agreed. As I said before, dress for the job you want, not the one you have.

Does paying coaches a salary in line with "the job you want" count as "dressing for the job you want"?

Seems you are picking and choosing apparel. Winning big in football and basketball is a nice suit, shirt, and shoes. Supporting 20 sports is a nice pare of socks and underwear.

I would think bigger and better conferences (American) would want us competing in all their sports if they were to call us up, not just 2 of them.

I think that is a pretty myopic take on college athletics. They could give 2 ***** about a golf team if we have football and basketball teams that could compete for championships in their league from day 1.

Actually I'd say that the myopic take is assuming that conferences and schools only care (or should only care) about football and basketball. Yes, those sports drive the bus, but they're not the only ones on board. There's a reason Tulane is in the American and not the Sun Belt or Southland despite having minimal success in the major sports. Or why Rutgers is in the Big 10 or Rice is a reasonable move-up candidate. There's also a reason why there's a requirement that D1 schools sponsor at least x number of sports.

ODU athletics is more than just a football and basketball franchise in branded uniforms. They, and every athletic department, represent their school every time they take a field or mat or court, and not just when they're on TV. They provide opportunities for prospective students and an outlet for current ones. They're not just trotting field hockey and swimming teams out there for the hell of it.

In essence, I think some people are saying "ODU should deemphasize or shut down programs I don't care about so they can put more money into the ones I do care about." At which point the question to them becomes: Do you support ODU athletics, or just the one or two teams you like to watch on Saturdays?

It doesn't matter how much I care about sport X or sport Y. What matters is where you get ROI, and it doesn't come from the Diving team. This isn't charity. We are donating our money to build an athletic brand. Two sports drive that brand. If you are unable to fund those sports, and you are funding more non revenue sports than your peers, then you are engaging in malpractice, or delusions of grandeur. When we are funding basketball and football at a level that is commensurate with the large budget that our admin has to work with, then we can talk about charity and your imaginary world where universities are charged with creating an athletic culture that celebrates and rewards every sport equally regardless of their contribution to the brand.
10-05-2018 12:17 PM
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cmett003 Online
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Post: #89
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 11:55 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 10:55 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 09:04 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:29 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Does paying coaches a salary in line with "the job you want" count as "dressing for the job you want"?

Seems you are picking and choosing apparel. Winning big in football and basketball is a nice suit, shirt, and shoes. Supporting 20 sports is a nice pare of socks and underwear.

I would think bigger and better conferences (American) would want us competing in all their sports if they were to call us up, not just 2 of them.

I think that is a pretty myopic take on college athletics. They could give 2 ***** about a golf team if we have football and basketball teams that could compete for championships in their league from day 1.

Actually I'd say that the myopic take is assuming that conferences and schools only care (or should only care) about football and basketball. Yes, those sports drive the bus, but they're not the only ones on board. There's a reason Tulane is in the American and not the Sun Belt or Southland despite having minimal success in the major sports. Or why Rutgers is in the Big 10 or Rice is a reasonable move-up candidate. There's also a reason why there's a requirement that D1 schools sponsor at least x number of sports.

ODU athletics is more than just a football and basketball franchise in branded uniforms. They, and every athletic department, represent their school every time they take a field or mat or court, and not just when they're on TV. They provide opportunities for prospective students and an outlet for current ones. They're not just trotting field hockey and swimming teams out there for the hell of it.

In essence, I think some people are saying "ODU should deemphasize or shut down programs I don't care about so they can put more money into the ones I do care about." At which point the question to them becomes: Do you support ODU athletics, or just the one or two teams you like to watch on Saturdays?

It doesn't matter how much I care about sport X or sport Y. What matters is where you get ROI, and it doesn't come from the Diving team. This isn't charity. We are donating our money to build an athletic brand. Two sports drive that brand. If you are unable to fund those sports, and you are funding more non revenue sports than your peers, then you are engaging in malpractice, or delusions of grandeur. When we are funding basketball and football at a level that is commensurate with the large budget that our admin has to work with, then we can talk about charity and your imaginary world where universities are charged with creating an athletic culture that celebrates and rewards every sport equally regardless of their contribution to the brand.

Everyone should want to be good at football and basketball whatever the cost because success in those sports ultimately will lead to success in all sports.
10-05-2018 12:36 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #90
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 12:11 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 11:55 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 10:55 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 09:04 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:29 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Does paying coaches a salary in line with "the job you want" count as "dressing for the job you want"?

Seems you are picking and choosing apparel. Winning big in football and basketball is a nice suit, shirt, and shoes. Supporting 20 sports is a nice pare of socks and underwear.

I would think bigger and better conferences (American) would want us competing in all their sports if they were to call us up, not just 2 of them.

I think that is a pretty myopic take on college athletics. They could give 2 ***** about a golf team if we have football and basketball teams that could compete for championships in their league from day 1.

Actually I'd say that the myopic take is assuming that conferences and schools only care (or should only care) about football and basketball. Yes, those sports drive the bus, but they're not the only ones on board. There's a reason Tulane is in the American and not the Sun Belt or Southland despite having minimal success in the major sports. Or why Rutgers is in the Big 10 or Rice is a reasonable move-up candidate. There's also a reason why there's a requirement that D1 schools sponsor at least x number of sports.

ODU athletics is more than just a football and basketball franchise in branded uniforms. They, and every athletic department, represent their school every time they take a field or mat or court, and not just when they're on TV. They provide opportunities for prospective students and an outlet for current ones. They're not just trotting field hockey and swimming teams out there for the hell of it.

In essence, I think some people are saying "ODU should deemphasize or shut down programs I don't care about so they can put more money into the ones I do care about." At which point the question to them becomes: Do you support ODU athletics, or just the one or two teams you like to watch on Saturdays?

I get your point but you are just a little off base. Yes we all care about ODU athletics as a whole but I don't spend thousands of dollars each year to go watch women's lacrosse or men's wrestling. Its great when all other sports do well and yes that can help with conference affiliation but in the grand scheme of college sports and the money world they don't mean much other than some bragging points. Ex. "We have a good field hockey program because we won 9 NCAA championships". But did those 9 field hockey championships change ODU for the better? I would say yes but only minimally. If ODU goes to the Final Four in basketball or the College Football Playoff I think it would change the University's image forever. All sports matter but not all sports are equal, and that is just something you are going to have to except. No one is saying to shut down all ODU non-revenue sports and put all the money into football and basketball. However I am saying that a sport like swimming is an acceptable casualty if it would help ODU football become more successful.

But it's not as though non-revenue sports are being treated the same way the major sports are. Football and the two basketball programs are rightfully afforded the lion's share of expenditures because they provide the lion's share of revenue and interest. I don't think even the most devoted Title IX zealot or minor-sport advocate would reasonably insist that all sports be given equal monies. That's not reasonable.

Athletics should at some level be an avatar of not the students they represent, but their community. Think about it: The sports that an outsider might consider most on the fringe — field hockey, swimming/diving, rowing, sailing and wrestling — are also sports in which Tidewater has a) a long history of success and/or b) the appropriate geography. Whether Louisiana Tech or UTEP — or for that matter, Memphis or Cincinnati — sponsors those sports is largely irrelevant. They're sports that do well in Tidewater. ODU, no matter its ambitions, is a Tidewater school with a Tidewater presence. Those sports are appropriate. It's not as though they're trying to maintain hockey or skiing programs.

But even if you believe that ODU could do with fewer programs, think about the optics of it. When was the last time you saw a school drop programs and think "hey, they're focusing on the important sports; I now have more confidence in their ability to succeed"? More likely it's "well, they must be in a world of financial hurt if they have to get rid of sports." If ODU, or anyone else, were to cut the number of programs they offer (or even cut into their funding), they would look worse, not better, for it.
10-05-2018 12:45 PM
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Post: #91
RE: Volleyball 2020
So we should just BE in a world of financial hurt rather than alleviate that issue and let the world know about it?
10-05-2018 12:53 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #92
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It doesn't matter how much I care about sport X or sport Y. What matters is where you get ROI, and it doesn't come from the Diving team. This isn't charity. We are donating our money to build an athletic brand. Two sports drive that brand. If you are unable to fund those sports, and you are funding more non revenue sports than your peers, then you are engaging in malpractice, or delusions of grandeur. When we are funding basketball and football at a level that is commensurate with the large budget that our admin has to work with, then we can talk about charity and your imaginary world where universities are charged with creating an athletic culture that celebrates and rewards every sport equally regardless of their contribution to the brand.

You're defining ROI very narrowly here. For one thing, return doesn't always have to be in the form of money. If ODU can attribute other benefits to the presence of these sports, even if their box office numbers trail well behind basketball and football, then they would consider it a reasonable ROI. For another thing, ODU, like all D1 schools not named Grand Canyon, is a nonprofit organization. If you remove opportunities for other students so that alumni and fans can get more enjoyment out of the two sports they pay attention to — and it absolutely can and will be spun like that — at best ODU is going to be embarrassed publicly, and at worst it might get the government to take a closer look at that nonprofit status.

To fans, ODU athletics may be two sports and a bunch of intramurals that for accounting purposes must be considered NCAA programs. To ODU's president, senior management and athletic department, it's more than that.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2018 01:06 PM by Cyniclone.)
10-05-2018 01:02 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #93
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  So we should just BE in a world of financial hurt rather than alleviate that issue and let the world know about it?

There's a difference between saying "we can't afford the sports we have so we must make the difficult decision to cut some of them" and "our paying fans want better football and basketball so we'll goose their budgets by razing some programs that they don't care about."
10-05-2018 01:05 PM
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RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 12:45 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 12:11 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 11:55 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 10:55 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 09:04 AM)odu09 Wrote:  I would think bigger and better conferences (American) would want us competing in all their sports if they were to call us up, not just 2 of them.

I think that is a pretty myopic take on college athletics. They could give 2 ***** about a golf team if we have football and basketball teams that could compete for championships in their league from day 1.

Actually I'd say that the myopic take is assuming that conferences and schools only care (or should only care) about football and basketball. Yes, those sports drive the bus, but they're not the only ones on board. There's a reason Tulane is in the American and not the Sun Belt or Southland despite having minimal success in the major sports. Or why Rutgers is in the Big 10 or Rice is a reasonable move-up candidate. There's also a reason why there's a requirement that D1 schools sponsor at least x number of sports.

ODU athletics is more than just a football and basketball franchise in branded uniforms. They, and every athletic department, represent their school every time they take a field or mat or court, and not just when they're on TV. They provide opportunities for prospective students and an outlet for current ones. They're not just trotting field hockey and swimming teams out there for the hell of it.

In essence, I think some people are saying "ODU should deemphasize or shut down programs I don't care about so they can put more money into the ones I do care about." At which point the question to them becomes: Do you support ODU athletics, or just the one or two teams you like to watch on Saturdays?

I get your point but you are just a little off base. Yes we all care about ODU athletics as a whole but I don't spend thousands of dollars each year to go watch women's lacrosse or men's wrestling. Its great when all other sports do well and yes that can help with conference affiliation but in the grand scheme of college sports and the money world they don't mean much other than some bragging points. Ex. "We have a good field hockey program because we won 9 NCAA championships". But did those 9 field hockey championships change ODU for the better? I would say yes but only minimally. If ODU goes to the Final Four in basketball or the College Football Playoff I think it would change the University's image forever. All sports matter but not all sports are equal, and that is just something you are going to have to except. No one is saying to shut down all ODU non-revenue sports and put all the money into football and basketball. However I am saying that a sport like swimming is an acceptable casualty if it would help ODU football become more successful.

But it's not as though non-revenue sports are being treated the same way the major sports are. Football and the two basketball programs are rightfully afforded the lion's share of expenditures because they provide the lion's share of revenue and interest. I don't think even the most devoted Title IX zealot or minor-sport advocate would reasonably insist that all sports be given equal monies. That's not reasonable.

Athletics should at some level be an avatar of not the students they represent, but their community. Think about it: The sports that an outsider might consider most on the fringe — field hockey, swimming/diving, rowing, sailing and wrestling — are also sports in which Tidewater has a) a long history of success and/or b) the appropriate geography. Whether Louisiana Tech or UTEP — or for that matter, Memphis or Cincinnati — sponsors those sports is largely irrelevant. They're sports that do well in Tidewater. ODU, no matter its ambitions, is a Tidewater school with a Tidewater presence. Those sports are appropriate. It's not as though they're trying to maintain hockey or skiing programs.

But even if you believe that ODU could do with fewer programs, think about the optics of it. When was the last time you saw a school drop programs and think "hey, they're focusing on the important sports; I now have more confidence in their ability to succeed"? More likely it's "well, they must be in a world of financial hurt if they have to get rid of sports." If ODU, or anyone else, were to cut the number of programs they offer (or even cut into their funding), they would look worse, not better, for it.

If the "community" supports these sports so much how is it that the attendance is so bad. ODU has a top ranked field hockey program and the school was begging students and other athletes to show up when #1 UConn came to town to make it seem like people cared. I think wrestling does OK attendance wise but its probably only a few hundred max. Its not ODU's obligation to keep certain sports because they are popular in the area.

To your point of "hey, they're focusing on the important sports; I now have more confidence in their ability to succeed". I actually think the exact opposite of you. My reaction would be "Good, they need to start spending more on the sports that matter the most"

If they drop a sport like swimming 99% of ODU fans probably would not notice or care. Field hockey, ya I could see that ruffing some feathers but I have never suggested they drop FH. But swimming, can you say you have ever been to a meet or ever even looked up the result of a meet. Furthermore there are a ton of schools that never sponsored swimming in the first place so I doubt it would be that big of deal to get rid of it. Here is a list of schools that never had swimming:

UAB
Charlotte
La Tech
MTSU
Southern Miss
UTEP
UTSA
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10-05-2018 01:13 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #95
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 01:13 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 12:45 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 12:11 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 11:55 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 10:55 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I think that is a pretty myopic take on college athletics. They could give 2 ***** about a golf team if we have football and basketball teams that could compete for championships in their league from day 1.

Actually I'd say that the myopic take is assuming that conferences and schools only care (or should only care) about football and basketball. Yes, those sports drive the bus, but they're not the only ones on board. There's a reason Tulane is in the American and not the Sun Belt or Southland despite having minimal success in the major sports. Or why Rutgers is in the Big 10 or Rice is a reasonable move-up candidate. There's also a reason why there's a requirement that D1 schools sponsor at least x number of sports.

ODU athletics is more than just a football and basketball franchise in branded uniforms. They, and every athletic department, represent their school every time they take a field or mat or court, and not just when they're on TV. They provide opportunities for prospective students and an outlet for current ones. They're not just trotting field hockey and swimming teams out there for the hell of it.

In essence, I think some people are saying "ODU should deemphasize or shut down programs I don't care about so they can put more money into the ones I do care about." At which point the question to them becomes: Do you support ODU athletics, or just the one or two teams you like to watch on Saturdays?

I get your point but you are just a little off base. Yes we all care about ODU athletics as a whole but I don't spend thousands of dollars each year to go watch women's lacrosse or men's wrestling. Its great when all other sports do well and yes that can help with conference affiliation but in the grand scheme of college sports and the money world they don't mean much other than some bragging points. Ex. "We have a good field hockey program because we won 9 NCAA championships". But did those 9 field hockey championships change ODU for the better? I would say yes but only minimally. If ODU goes to the Final Four in basketball or the College Football Playoff I think it would change the University's image forever. All sports matter but not all sports are equal, and that is just something you are going to have to except. No one is saying to shut down all ODU non-revenue sports and put all the money into football and basketball. However I am saying that a sport like swimming is an acceptable casualty if it would help ODU football become more successful.

But it's not as though non-revenue sports are being treated the same way the major sports are. Football and the two basketball programs are rightfully afforded the lion's share of expenditures because they provide the lion's share of revenue and interest. I don't think even the most devoted Title IX zealot or minor-sport advocate would reasonably insist that all sports be given equal monies. That's not reasonable.

Athletics should at some level be an avatar of not the students they represent, but their community. Think about it: The sports that an outsider might consider most on the fringe — field hockey, swimming/diving, rowing, sailing and wrestling — are also sports in which Tidewater has a) a long history of success and/or b) the appropriate geography. Whether Louisiana Tech or UTEP — or for that matter, Memphis or Cincinnati — sponsors those sports is largely irrelevant. They're sports that do well in Tidewater. ODU, no matter its ambitions, is a Tidewater school with a Tidewater presence. Those sports are appropriate. It's not as though they're trying to maintain hockey or skiing programs.

But even if you believe that ODU could do with fewer programs, think about the optics of it. When was the last time you saw a school drop programs and think "hey, they're focusing on the important sports; I now have more confidence in their ability to succeed"? More likely it's "well, they must be in a world of financial hurt if they have to get rid of sports." If ODU, or anyone else, were to cut the number of programs they offer (or even cut into their funding), they would look worse, not better, for it.

If the "community" supports these sports so much how is it that the attendance is so bad. ODU has a top ranked field hockey program and the school was begging students and other athletes to show up when #1 UConn came to town to make it seem like people cared. I think wrestling does OK attendance wise but its probably only a few hundred max. Its not ODU's obligation to keep certain sports because they are popular in the area.

To your point of "hey, they're focusing on the important sports; I now have more confidence in their ability to succeed". I actually think the exact opposite of you. My reaction would be "Good, they need to start spending more on the sports that matter the most"

If they drop a sport like swimming 99% of ODU fans probably would not notice or care. Field hockey, ya I could see that ruffing some feathers but I have never suggested they drop FH. But swimming, can you say you have ever been to a meet or ever even looked up the result of a meet. Furthermore there are a ton of schools that never sponsored swimming in the first place so I doubt it would be that big of deal to get rid of it. Here is a list of schools that never had swimming:

UAB
Charlotte
La Tech
MTSU
Southern Miss
UTEP
UTSA
WKU

Again, the fan perspective and the administration perspective are markedly different. Most fans think of ODU athletics is the place where football and basketball live, and while they're vaguely aware of the other sports' existence, it doesn't affect their day to day lives. And there's nothing wrong with that. I went to two schools and the only time I attended a non-basketball game was to cover it for the school or city newspaper. But the administration, for a multitude of reasons, can't and won't take that view.

Killing swimming, which obviously has some value to the school (they don't build and maintain a natatorium and program just for ***** and giggles) to cut the number of sports offered would be a sign that the school is struggling financially. New Mexico announced it was cutting sports, including men's soccer, and the response was "****, that's not good." This would be bad enough. But killing swimming so that football and basketball can have more money would be a TERRIBLE look. It might get the government involved even, since a nonprofit organization removing opportunities to students in order to increase revenue is not going to be looked upon kindly.
10-05-2018 02:03 PM
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cmett003 Online
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Post: #96
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 02:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 01:13 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 12:45 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 12:11 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 11:55 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Actually I'd say that the myopic take is assuming that conferences and schools only care (or should only care) about football and basketball. Yes, those sports drive the bus, but they're not the only ones on board. There's a reason Tulane is in the American and not the Sun Belt or Southland despite having minimal success in the major sports. Or why Rutgers is in the Big 10 or Rice is a reasonable move-up candidate. There's also a reason why there's a requirement that D1 schools sponsor at least x number of sports.

ODU athletics is more than just a football and basketball franchise in branded uniforms. They, and every athletic department, represent their school every time they take a field or mat or court, and not just when they're on TV. They provide opportunities for prospective students and an outlet for current ones. They're not just trotting field hockey and swimming teams out there for the hell of it.

In essence, I think some people are saying "ODU should deemphasize or shut down programs I don't care about so they can put more money into the ones I do care about." At which point the question to them becomes: Do you support ODU athletics, or just the one or two teams you like to watch on Saturdays?

I get your point but you are just a little off base. Yes we all care about ODU athletics as a whole but I don't spend thousands of dollars each year to go watch women's lacrosse or men's wrestling. Its great when all other sports do well and yes that can help with conference affiliation but in the grand scheme of college sports and the money world they don't mean much other than some bragging points. Ex. "We have a good field hockey program because we won 9 NCAA championships". But did those 9 field hockey championships change ODU for the better? I would say yes but only minimally. If ODU goes to the Final Four in basketball or the College Football Playoff I think it would change the University's image forever. All sports matter but not all sports are equal, and that is just something you are going to have to except. No one is saying to shut down all ODU non-revenue sports and put all the money into football and basketball. However I am saying that a sport like swimming is an acceptable casualty if it would help ODU football become more successful.

But it's not as though non-revenue sports are being treated the same way the major sports are. Football and the two basketball programs are rightfully afforded the lion's share of expenditures because they provide the lion's share of revenue and interest. I don't think even the most devoted Title IX zealot or minor-sport advocate would reasonably insist that all sports be given equal monies. That's not reasonable.

Athletics should at some level be an avatar of not the students they represent, but their community. Think about it: The sports that an outsider might consider most on the fringe — field hockey, swimming/diving, rowing, sailing and wrestling — are also sports in which Tidewater has a) a long history of success and/or b) the appropriate geography. Whether Louisiana Tech or UTEP — or for that matter, Memphis or Cincinnati — sponsors those sports is largely irrelevant. They're sports that do well in Tidewater. ODU, no matter its ambitions, is a Tidewater school with a Tidewater presence. Those sports are appropriate. It's not as though they're trying to maintain hockey or skiing programs.

But even if you believe that ODU could do with fewer programs, think about the optics of it. When was the last time you saw a school drop programs and think "hey, they're focusing on the important sports; I now have more confidence in their ability to succeed"? More likely it's "well, they must be in a world of financial hurt if they have to get rid of sports." If ODU, or anyone else, were to cut the number of programs they offer (or even cut into their funding), they would look worse, not better, for it.

If the "community" supports these sports so much how is it that the attendance is so bad. ODU has a top ranked field hockey program and the school was begging students and other athletes to show up when #1 UConn came to town to make it seem like people cared. I think wrestling does OK attendance wise but its probably only a few hundred max. Its not ODU's obligation to keep certain sports because they are popular in the area.

To your point of "hey, they're focusing on the important sports; I now have more confidence in their ability to succeed". I actually think the exact opposite of you. My reaction would be "Good, they need to start spending more on the sports that matter the most"

If they drop a sport like swimming 99% of ODU fans probably would not notice or care. Field hockey, ya I could see that ruffing some feathers but I have never suggested they drop FH. But swimming, can you say you have ever been to a meet or ever even looked up the result of a meet. Furthermore there are a ton of schools that never sponsored swimming in the first place so I doubt it would be that big of deal to get rid of it. Here is a list of schools that never had swimming:

UAB
Charlotte
La Tech
MTSU
Southern Miss
UTEP
UTSA
WKU

Again, the fan perspective and the administration perspective are markedly different. Most fans think of ODU athletics is the place where football and basketball live, and while they're vaguely aware of the other sports' existence, it doesn't affect their day to day lives. And there's nothing wrong with that. I went to two schools and the only time I attended a non-basketball game was to cover it for the school or city newspaper. But the administration, for a multitude of reasons, can't and won't take that view.

Killing swimming, which obviously has some value to the school (they don't build and maintain a natatorium and program just for ***** and giggles) to cut the number of sports offered would be a sign that the school is struggling financially. New Mexico announced it was cutting sports, including men's soccer, and the response was "****, that's not good." This would be bad enough. But killing swimming so that football and basketball can have more money would be a TERRIBLE look. It might get the government involved even, since a nonprofit organization removing opportunities to students in order to increase revenue is not going to be looked upon kindly.


Killing a sport to save money is one thing, killing a sport to improve another sport and make more money is another. I mean you can't do it all. Plus that natatorium is so old and out dated that its hardly worth the upkeep. At some point its not worth the investment. Football is worth the investment.

Sports like swimming are not worth it in a league like C-USA. Its just like throwing money away.
10-05-2018 02:15 PM
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Post: #97
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 02:15 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 02:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Again, the fan perspective and the administration perspective are markedly different. Most fans think of ODU athletics is the place where football and basketball live, and while they're vaguely aware of the other sports' existence, it doesn't affect their day to day lives. And there's nothing wrong with that. I went to two schools and the only time I attended a non-basketball game was to cover it for the school or city newspaper. But the administration, for a multitude of reasons, can't and won't take that view.

Killing swimming, which obviously has some value to the school (they don't build and maintain a natatorium and program just for ***** and giggles) to cut the number of sports offered would be a sign that the school is struggling financially. New Mexico announced it was cutting sports, including men's soccer, and the response was "****, that's not good." This would be bad enough. But killing swimming so that football and basketball can have more money would be a TERRIBLE look. It might get the government involved even, since a nonprofit organization removing opportunities to students in order to increase revenue is not going to be looked upon kindly.


Killing a sport to save money is one thing, killing a sport to improve another sport and make more money is another. I mean you can't do it all. Plus that natatorium is so old and out dated that its hardly worth the upkeep. At some point its not worth the investment. Football is worth the investment.

Sports like swimming are not worth it in a league like C-USA. Its just like throwing money away.

The pool in the student rec center, I would hardly call it a natatorium, is used by way more than the swimming and diving team. There are rec sports uses, PE classes (I had one in there.), and private groups that rent the pool for swim meets that drive revenue back to the University.

A point that is lost in the cut non-revenue sports crusade is not all of these kids are on scholarships. That means the University is getting tuition and fees from the kids not on full rides.
10-05-2018 02:24 PM
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cmett003 Online
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Post: #98
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 02:24 PM)ODU2K1 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 02:15 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 02:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Again, the fan perspective and the administration perspective are markedly different. Most fans think of ODU athletics is the place where football and basketball live, and while they're vaguely aware of the other sports' existence, it doesn't affect their day to day lives. And there's nothing wrong with that. I went to two schools and the only time I attended a non-basketball game was to cover it for the school or city newspaper. But the administration, for a multitude of reasons, can't and won't take that view.

Killing swimming, which obviously has some value to the school (they don't build and maintain a natatorium and program just for ***** and giggles) to cut the number of sports offered would be a sign that the school is struggling financially. New Mexico announced it was cutting sports, including men's soccer, and the response was "****, that's not good." This would be bad enough. But killing swimming so that football and basketball can have more money would be a TERRIBLE look. It might get the government involved even, since a nonprofit organization removing opportunities to students in order to increase revenue is not going to be looked upon kindly.


Killing a sport to save money is one thing, killing a sport to improve another sport and make more money is another. I mean you can't do it all. Plus that natatorium is so old and out dated that its hardly worth the upkeep. At some point its not worth the investment. Football is worth the investment.

Sports like swimming are not worth it in a league like C-USA. Its just like throwing money away.

The pool in the student rec center, I would hardly call it a natatorium, is used by way more than the swimming and diving team. There are rec sports uses, PE classes (I had one in there.), and private groups that rent the pool for swim meets that drive revenue back to the University.

A point that is lost in the cut non-revenue sports crusade is not all of these kids are on scholarships. That means the University is getting tuition and fees from the kids not on full rides.

The natatorium was there before the new rec center. When they built the new rec center they just left it because they didn't have enough money to build a new one. The literal name of it is the "Scrap" Chandler Natatorium..
10-05-2018 02:34 PM
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Post: #99
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  So we should just BE in a world of financial hurt rather than alleviate that issue and let the world know about it?

You're right. Let's just cut everything except for football, men's and women's basketball, and see how that goes for us.
10-05-2018 02:43 PM
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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #100
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 02:43 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  So we should just BE in a world of financial hurt rather than alleviate that issue and let the world know about it?

You're right. Let's just cut everything except for football, men's and women's basketball, and see how that goes for us.

Who is saying that?

I am just saying we should align our athletic programs with our peers. We will have 20 sports when Volleyball starts. That is unheard of among G5 schools. Meanwhile, we can't pay for coaches at the level of our peers in the two high profile sports, or build a football stadium that is an asset, while maintaining one of the largest athletic budgets in G5 athletics all because our admin doesn't want to look like the bad guy who took a diver's opportunity to attend ODU and compete in a revenue draining sport away.
10-05-2018 03:17 PM
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