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(10-02-2018 09:56 PM)Lush Wrote:  i really liked the makeup of nevada's starting five. everyone was 6-7. i know they were forced to play that way. i was surprised they lost to loyola. i imagine they were bummed. it'd be badanus if mick was forced to start cane, keith will, cumberland, rashawn, and tre. it wouldn't shock me if cumberland averages under fifteen if that lineup gels. the thought of him having to score sours the fate of this season. do any yall think he can be a fulltime point?

I'm hoping we are pleasantly surprised by the development of the front court this year. They just weren't really ever given a chance to play. My biggest complaint with Mick is that when he finds a guy that he likes, he rides em until the wheels fall off. Last year, Gary got 1025 minutes on a bum ankle and Scott only got 449. There were plenty of 3 minute stretches last year where Scott could've come in and the team wouldn't have missed a beat.

(10-03-2018 08:48 AM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(10-02-2018 09:56 PM)Lush Wrote:  i really liked the makeup of nevada's starting five. everyone was 6-7. i know they were forced to play that way. i was surprised they lost to loyola. i imagine they were bummed. it'd be badanus if mick was forced to start cane, keith will, cumberland, rashawn, and tre. it wouldn't shock me if cumberland averages under fifteen if that lineup gels. the thought of him having to score sours the fate of this season. do any yall think he can be a fulltime point?

I'm hoping we are pleasantly surprised by the development of the front court this year. They just weren't really ever given a chance to play. My biggest complaint with Mick is that when he finds a guy that he likes, he rides em until the wheels fall off. Last year, Gary got 1025 minutes on a bum ankle and Scott only got 449. There were plenty of 3 minute stretches last year where Scott could've come in and the team wouldn't have missed a beat.

Is there a coach that doesn't ride his Senior, Conference Player of The Year? Defensive Player of The Year? Did Kenyon Martin log a lot of minutes?

(10-03-2018 08:48 AM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(10-02-2018 09:56 PM)Lush Wrote:  i really liked the makeup of nevada's starting five. everyone was 6-7. i know they were forced to play that way. i was surprised they lost to loyola. i imagine they were bummed. it'd be badanus if mick was forced to start cane, keith will, cumberland, rashawn, and tre. it wouldn't shock me if cumberland averages under fifteen if that lineup gels. the thought of him having to score sours the fate of this season. do any yall think he can be a fulltime point?

I'm hoping we are pleasantly surprised by the development of the front court this year. They just weren't really ever given a chance to play. My biggest complaint with Mick is that when he finds a guy that he likes, he rides em until the wheels fall off. Last year, Gary got 1025 minutes on a bum ankle and Scott only got 449. There were plenty of 3 minute stretches last year where Scott could've come in and the team wouldn't have missed a beat.

Interesting observation. Was the bench used enough last year? Clark and Evans were certainly feeling the effects of the long season and as I recall, SK's senior year he had some nagging injury that hampered his effectiveness that first weekend in March. Is this a reason UC's teams haven't advanced past the first weekend more frequently; not just with Mick but with his predecessor?

(10-03-2018 09:37 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 08:48 AM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(10-02-2018 09:56 PM)Lush Wrote:  i really liked the makeup of nevada's starting five. everyone was 6-7. i know they were forced to play that way. i was surprised they lost to loyola. i imagine they were bummed. it'd be badanus if mick was forced to start cane, keith will, cumberland, rashawn, and tre. it wouldn't shock me if cumberland averages under fifteen if that lineup gels. the thought of him having to score sours the fate of this season. do any yall think he can be a fulltime point?

I'm hoping we are pleasantly surprised by the development of the front court this year. They just weren't really ever given a chance to play. My biggest complaint with Mick is that when he finds a guy that he likes, he rides em until the wheels fall off. Last year, Gary got 1025 minutes on a bum ankle and Scott only got 449. There were plenty of 3 minute stretches last year where Scott could've come in and the team wouldn't have missed a beat.

Is there a coach that doesn't ride his Senior, Conference Player of The Year? Defensive Player of The Year? Did Kenyon Martin log a lot of minutes?

A quick snippet of some blow out but "real" games from last year:

Mississippi State: 65-50. Clark 34 minutes, Scott 6
UCLA: 77-63. Clark 35, Scott 5
Memphis: 82-48. Clark 23, Scott 13
USF: 78-55 Clark 33, Scott 8
ECU: 86-60 Clark 26, Scott 14 (closer...)
Temple: 75-42 Clark 26, Scott 13

In all fairness, the minutes did get closer towards the end of the year:
UConn: 77-52 Clark 20, Scott 19 (Scott ended with 9/9/2)
Tulane: 78-49 Clark 23, Scott 17 (Scott finished with 10/6/1 steal)
Memphis 70-60 - Clark 34, Scott 18 (Scott finished with 6/4/1)

This little exercise actually showed that when given the chance to play, Scott did a pretty good job in filling in. It was largely a minutes problem. Now with that being said, obviously Gary was a hell of a player and got more minutes against better teams and was still productive. Not trying at all to dog on Gary, but Scott, I believe, has shown that he can produce when he gets minutes.

EDIT:

The much easier thing to look at in a way is their PER 40 minute stats:

Gary: 12.9, 8.7, 2.1, 1.2 blocks, 1.4 steals. Tre: 9.8, 11.4, 2.9, .6, 1.3. Now again these are skewed by Gary playing more minutes against better teams.

(10-02-2018 10:17 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I can really see no reason to be excited for UC Bball for at least another month. Let me enjoy be excited for UC Football first.

Yes... At least we have that problem this year. With Tubs at the helm, we'd already be pining for basketball.

If we make the Sweet 16 I’ll get excited. Until then.....meh.

(10-03-2018 09:03 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  If we make the Sweet 16 I’ll get excited. Until then.....meh.

Will you get excited and watch if we get back to the conference tournament championship game? Will you get excited and watch if our last game against Houston at home will decide if we win the regular season championship? Will you get pumped for the Ohio State game? Xavier at home? Just curious.

(10-03-2018 10:16 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 09:03 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  If we make the Sweet 16 I’ll get excited. Until then.....meh.

Will you get excited and watch if we get back to the conference tournament championship game? Will you get excited and watch if our last game against Houston at home will decide if we win the regular season championship? Will you get pumped for the Ohio State game? Xavier at home? Just curious.

Something tells me that fans who feel like the poster above will still get upset when UC loses a regular season game, even though they say that they don't really care about anything but winning in March.

(10-03-2018 10:23 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 08:48 AM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(10-02-2018 09:56 PM)Lush Wrote:  i really liked the makeup of nevada's starting five. everyone was 6-7. i know they were forced to play that way. i was surprised they lost to loyola. i imagine they were bummed. it'd be badanus if mick was forced to start cane, keith will, cumberland, rashawn, and tre. it wouldn't shock me if cumberland averages under fifteen if that lineup gels. the thought of him having to score sours the fate of this season. do any yall think he can be a fulltime point?

I'm hoping we are pleasantly surprised by the development of the front court this year. They just weren't really ever given a chance to play. My biggest complaint with Mick is that when he finds a guy that he likes, he rides em until the wheels fall off. Last year, Gary got 1025 minutes on a bum ankle and Scott only got 449. There were plenty of 3 minute stretches last year where Scott could've come in and the team wouldn't have missed a beat.

Interesting observation. Was the bench used enough last year? Clark and Evans were certainly feeling the effects of the long season and as I recall, SK's senior year he had some nagging injury that hampered his effectiveness that first weekend in March. Is this a reason UC's teams haven't advanced past the first weekend more frequently; not just with Mick but with his predecessor?

I've always wondered about this question. First w Huggs and now w Cronin. I'm an endurance athlete so look at it through that lens. The key to a sport like cycling is a training plan that delivers an athlete at the peak of their fitness at the most important race. There is a recognition an athlete cannot be at peak fitness 24/7/365. So training is a constant strategy of balancing fitness and freshness.

It seems Huggs and Cronin, at least in their public comments, believe athletes can be at peak fitness constantly. Think about their comments regarding effort - every game, 40 minutes . . . ; in practice have to demonstrate effort . . .

Behinds the scenes, I'm hoping they are developing training and game loads that take into account the balance between fitness and freshness and the impact of fatigue. I think if it isn't already into their coaching repertoire, could pay significant dividends.

(10-03-2018 09:03 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  If we make the Sweet 16 I’ll get excited. Until then.....meh.

Then I don't understand how you consider yourself a fan.

(10-03-2018 10:16 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 09:03 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  If we make the Sweet 16 I’ll get excited. Until then.....meh.

Will you get excited and watch if we get back to the conference tournament championship game? Will you get excited and watch if our last game against Houston at home will decide if we win the regular season championship? Will you get pumped for the Ohio State game? Xavier at home? Just curious.

The question wasn't addressed to me in particular but I would answer yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Just like Marley's ghost in " A Christmas Carol" though, Mick will be dragging that heavy iron chain named "Nevada" around until he takes another UC team past the first weekend of the tournament. A Sweet Sixteen this year would unburden him. Yet I've not heard anyone suggest this year's team is capable of that. Doesn't that speak volumes about diminished expectations among UC fans regarding advancing in March vs. participating in the Tourney?

(10-04-2018 12:41 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 10:16 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 09:03 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  If we make the Sweet 16 I’ll get excited. Until then.....meh.

Will you get excited and watch if we get back to the conference tournament championship game? Will you get excited and watch if our last game against Houston at home will decide if we win the regular season championship? Will you get pumped for the Ohio State game? Xavier at home? Just curious.

The question wasn't addressed to me in particular but I would answer yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Just like Marley's ghost in " A Christmas Carol" though, Mick will be dragging that heavy iron chain named "Nevada" around until he takes another UC team past the first weekend of the tournament. A Sweet Sixteen this year would unburden him. Yet I've not heard anyone suggest this year's team is capable of that. Doesn't that speak volumes about diminished expectations among UC fans regarding advancing in March vs. participating in the Tourney?

the hell with expectations!

(10-03-2018 10:16 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 09:03 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  If we make the Sweet 16 I’ll get excited. Until then.....meh.

Will you get excited and watch if we get back to the conference tournament championship game? Will you get excited and watch if our last game against Houston at home will decide if we win the regular season championship? Will you get pumped for the Ohio State game? Xavier at home? Just curious.

I'd be pumped if we can actually beat osu or Eggs. At some point, it's nice to play these teams and UK. However, at some point we need to win. I remember reading a quote from Mick saying there is no shame in losing to osu. How the heck can you have this mindset. osu is excited to beat us and create a greater divide between both programs.

(10-04-2018 12:41 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Just like Marley's ghost in " A Christmas Carol" though, Mick will be dragging that heavy iron chain named "Nevada" around until he takes another UC team past the first weekend of the tournament. A Sweet Sixteen this year would unburden him. Yet I've not heard anyone suggest this year's team is capable of that. Doesn't that speak volumes about diminished expectations among UC fans regarding advancing in March vs. participating in the Tourney?

This year's Sweet 16 included three 5 seeds, two 7s, two 9s, and an 11. The year before there were two 7s, an 8, and an 11. In 2016, there were two 5s, a 6, a 7, a 10, and an 11.

I think it's a stretch to believe that this year's UC team will be one of the top 15 teams in the country (I'm guessing that they will be, like, the 30th best team, give or take), but that's not the same thing as being incapable of making the Sweet 16.

My view is that this year is a rebuilding with unproven front court. Unlike many of the upper echelon bluebloods; we just don't reload.

(10-04-2018 02:18 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 10:16 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 09:03 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  If we make the Sweet 16 I’ll get excited. Until then.....meh.

Will you get excited and watch if we get back to the conference tournament championship game? Will you get excited and watch if our last game against Houston at home will decide if we win the regular season championship? Will you get pumped for the Ohio State game? Xavier at home? Just curious.

I'd be pumped if we can actually beat osu or Eggs. At some point, it's nice to play these teams and UK. However, at some point we need to win. I remember reading a quote from Mick saying there is no shame in losing to osu. How the heck can you have this mindset. osu is excited to beat us and create a greater divide between both programs.

Mick has also said the NCAA second round exits aren't his focus - he's trying to win a national championship. In part this is coachspeak that most coaches do. I don't believe for a minute that he doesn't want to go all out to beat Xavier, OH State or make a Sweet 16. I think this is his method for dealing with pressure on himself, the players and the program. Not saying I necessarily agree with that approach but it is what it is. I believe there is good reason to believe that we can beat both Ohio schools this year at the renovated arena and that would be a tremendous boost to the regular season. Thus, why I can get excited during the months leading up to the NCAA tourney. Last year was a great example of that.

(10-03-2018 10:23 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 08:48 AM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(10-02-2018 09:56 PM)Lush Wrote:  i really liked the makeup of nevada's starting five. everyone was 6-7. i know they were forced to play that way. i was surprised they lost to loyola. i imagine they were bummed. it'd be badanus if mick was forced to start cane, keith will, cumberland, rashawn, and tre. it wouldn't shock me if cumberland averages under fifteen if that lineup gels. the thought of him having to score sours the fate of this season. do any yall think he can be a fulltime point?

I'm hoping we are pleasantly surprised by the development of the front court this year. They just weren't really ever given a chance to play. My biggest complaint with Mick is that when he finds a guy that he likes, he rides em until the wheels fall off. Last year, Gary got 1025 minutes on a bum ankle and Scott only got 449. There were plenty of 3 minute stretches last year where Scott could've come in and the team wouldn't have missed a beat.

Interesting observation. Was the bench used enough last year? Clark and Evans were certainly feeling the effects of the long season and as I recall, SK's senior year he had some nagging injury that hampered his effectiveness that first weekend in March. Is this a reason UC's teams haven't advanced past the first weekend more frequently; not just with Mick but with his predecessor?

I could not disagree more. Development is primarily achieved off the court/field/arena.

Skills are developed through practice/repetition - away from organized activities

Techniques for enhancing that development is learned through organized activities (aka "practice")

Actual games/contests are an opportunity to display what has been developed.

There is obviously value in having game experience...but to think an extra couple minutes/game last year would somehow benefit UC's frontcourt player's development...it's just not true.

Athletes are made in the offseason

(10-05-2018 06:18 AM)GoCats1994 Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 10:23 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 08:48 AM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(10-02-2018 09:56 PM)Lush Wrote:  i really liked the makeup of nevada's starting five. everyone was 6-7. i know they were forced to play that way. i was surprised they lost to loyola. i imagine they were bummed. it'd be badanus if mick was forced to start cane, keith will, cumberland, rashawn, and tre. it wouldn't shock me if cumberland averages under fifteen if that lineup gels. the thought of him having to score sours the fate of this season. do any yall think he can be a fulltime point?

I'm hoping we are pleasantly surprised by the development of the front court this year. They just weren't really ever given a chance to play. My biggest complaint with Mick is that when he finds a guy that he likes, he rides em until the wheels fall off. Last year, Gary got 1025 minutes on a bum ankle and Scott only got 449. There were plenty of 3 minute stretches last year where Scott could've come in and the team wouldn't have missed a beat.

Interesting observation. Was the bench used enough last year? Clark and Evans were certainly feeling the effects of the long season and as I recall, SK's senior year he had some nagging injury that hampered his effectiveness that first weekend in March. Is this a reason UC's teams haven't advanced past the first weekend more frequently; not just with Mick but with his predecessor?

I could not disagree more. Development is primarily achieved off the court/field/arena.

Skills are developed through practice/repetition - away from organized activities

Techniques for enhancing that development is learned through organized activities (aka "practice")

Actual games/contests are an opportunity to display what has been developed.

There is obviously value in having game experience...but to think an extra couple minutes/game last year would somehow benefit UC's frontcourt player's development...it's just not true.

Athletes are made in the offseason

I can appreciate what you are saying. However, don’t discount the factor of doing it on the big stage while the lights are shining on you. Anyone that has played an organized sport will tell you it’s different and while it may be between the ears- some guys take longer to get to that place than others.

(10-05-2018 06:44 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  

(10-05-2018 06:18 AM)GoCats1994 Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 10:23 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 08:48 AM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(10-02-2018 09:56 PM)Lush Wrote:  i really liked the makeup of nevada's starting five. everyone was 6-7. i know they were forced to play that way. i was surprised they lost to loyola. i imagine they were bummed. it'd be badanus if mick was forced to start cane, keith will, cumberland, rashawn, and tre. it wouldn't shock me if cumberland averages under fifteen if that lineup gels. the thought of him having to score sours the fate of this season. do any yall think he can be a fulltime point?

I'm hoping we are pleasantly surprised by the development of the front court this year. They just weren't really ever given a chance to play. My biggest complaint with Mick is that when he finds a guy that he likes, he rides em until the wheels fall off. Last year, Gary got 1025 minutes on a bum ankle and Scott only got 449. There were plenty of 3 minute stretches last year where Scott could've come in and the team wouldn't have missed a beat.

Interesting observation. Was the bench used enough last year? Clark and Evans were certainly feeling the effects of the long season and as I recall, SK's senior year he had some nagging injury that hampered his effectiveness that first weekend in March. Is this a reason UC's teams haven't advanced past the first weekend more frequently; not just with Mick but with his predecessor?

I could not disagree more. Development is primarily achieved off the court/field/arena.

Skills are developed through practice/repetition - away from organized activities

Techniques for enhancing that development is learned through organized activities (aka "practice")

Actual games/contests are an opportunity to display what has been developed.

There is obviously value in having game experience...but to think an extra couple minutes/game last year would somehow benefit UC's frontcourt player's development...it's just not true.

Athletes are made in the offseason

I can appreciate what you are saying. However, don’t discount the factor of doing it on the big stage while the lights are shining on you. Anyone that has played an organized sport will tell you it’s different and while it may be between the ears- some guys take longer to get to that place than others.

You need both to develop. The bulk is tuning your skills, which often has to be on the player due to NCAA limits with coaches, etc. This is why often the players that develop the most are the ones you hear about being in the gym all the time. Coaches need to give them the tools, instruction and the drive to do this properly.

But you need that big game experience too so you don't panic, etc. Though over the years you see guys that this just comes to naturally. But most players need playing time to get comfortable with that.