IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
I think our country has been damaged by the duopoly as a result of the 2 dominant parties showing scant differences in actual performance vs what they profess during elections. IMHO, some of the biggest reasons why are
1) It's way too easy to agree behind closed doors on activities that are detrimental to the people. Illegal immigration is a great example of this. Also, racking up a huge national debt is probably the biggest example we have - and no one in the mainstream cares to discuss it.
2) The lack of term limits allows the same cast of characters to stick around for decades - which makes point 1 above a lot easier to carry out. Also, the lack of term limits allows these candidates to broaden and deepen their corrupt practices to enrich themselves. Too many tax and campaign funding scandals to mention. Again, mainstream media doesn't care...
One party that is trying hard to position itself as the 3rd major party appears to have some appeal on the surface. However, when you look at specific points this party supports - there is significant naivety by the people who run the party. Here is a great example of that: https://www.lp.org/issues/immigration/
Quote: Libertarians believe that people should be able to travel freely as long as they are peaceful. We welcome immigrants who come seeking a better life. The vast majority of immigrants are very peaceful and highly productive.
Indeed, the United States is a country of immigrants, of all backgrounds and walks of life…some families have just been here for more generations than others. Newcomers bring great vitality to our society.
A truly free market requires the free movement of people, not just products and ideas.
Whether they are from India or Mexico, whether they have advanced degrees or very little education, immigrants have one great thing in common: they bravely left their familiar surroundings in search of a better life. Many are fleeing extreme poverty and violence and are searching for a free and safe place to try to build their lives. We respect and admire their courage and are proud that they see the United States as a place of freedom, stability, and prosperity.
Of course, if someone has a record of violence, credible plans for violence, or acts violently, then Libertarians support blocking their entry, deporting, and/or prosecuting and imprisoning them, depending on the offense.
Libertarians do not support classifying undocumented immigrants as criminals. Our current immigration system is an embarrassment. People who would like to follow the legal procedures are unable to because these procedures are so complex and expensive and lengthy. If Americans want immigrants to enter through legal channels, we need to make those channels fair, reasonable, and accessible.
While there is a paragraph in this where they state that people with known criminal records should be deported. However, this would be reactionary at best out of necessity based on what I put in bold. The free movement is clearly the idea that you are presumed innocent until you give the authorities an excuse to arrest you. THEN the offender would be checked out. Grossly naive IMHO and honestly I fail to see how this could be the viable 3rd party we need.
RE: IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
Bernie Sanders and that King dude in the Senate are Independents. Even Ron Paul was an Independent. Sadly, it is the 2 party system have a monopoly to be a President.
RE: IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
3 parties would just hand everything to the dems or GOP, whoever saw less siphoning off. Ideally, we'd have FOUR major parties. Neo-con GOP, neo-lib dem, progressive, and MAGA populist.
The bolded of your OP is why I can't be a libertarian. They see what has happened to Europe, yet remain naive enough to still want it brought here. Suicide.
IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
(09-24-2018 12:01 PM)miko33 Wrote: I think our country has been damaged by the duopoly as a result of the 2 dominant parties showing scant differences in actual performance vs what they profess during elections. IMHO, some of the biggest reasons why are
1) It's way too easy to agree behind closed doors on activities that are detrimental to the people. Illegal immigration is a great example of this. Also, racking up a huge national debt is probably the biggest example we have - and no one in the mainstream cares to discuss it.
2) The lack of term limits allows the same cast of characters to stick around for decades - which makes point 1 above a lot easier to carry out. Also, the lack of term limits allows these candidates to broaden and deepen their corrupt practices to enrich themselves. Too many tax and campaign funding scandals to mention. Again, mainstream media doesn't care...
One party that is trying hard to position itself as the 3rd major party appears to have some appeal on the surface. However, when you look at specific points this party supports - there is significant naivety by the people who run the party. Here is a great example of that: https://www.lp.org/issues/immigration/
Quote: Libertarians believe that people should be able to travel freely as long as they are peaceful. We welcome immigrants who come seeking a better life. The vast majority of immigrants are very peaceful and highly productive.
Indeed, the United States is a country of immigrants, of all backgrounds and walks of life…some families have just been here for more generations than others. Newcomers bring great vitality to our society.
A truly free market requires the free movement of people, not just products and ideas.
Whether they are from India or Mexico, whether they have advanced degrees or very little education, immigrants have one great thing in common: they bravely left their familiar surroundings in search of a better life. Many are fleeing extreme poverty and violence and are searching for a free and safe place to try to build their lives. We respect and admire their courage and are proud that they see the United States as a place of freedom, stability, and prosperity.
Of course, if someone has a record of violence, credible plans for violence, or acts violently, then Libertarians support blocking their entry, deporting, and/or prosecuting and imprisoning them, depending on the offense.
Libertarians do not support classifying undocumented immigrants as criminals. Our current immigration system is an embarrassment. People who would like to follow the legal procedures are unable to because these procedures are so complex and expensive and lengthy. If Americans want immigrants to enter through legal channels, we need to make those channels fair, reasonable, and accessible.
While there is a paragraph in this where they state that people with known criminal records should be deported. However, this would be reactionary at best out of necessity based on what I put in bold. The free movement is clearly the idea that you are presumed innocent until you give the authorities an excuse to arrest you. THEN the offender would be checked out. Grossly naive IMHO and honestly I fail to see how this could be the viable 3rd party we need.
While I do agree, I am afraid that ship has sailed. Don’t see any way a viable 3rd party can work now. The one chance was when Perot ran, but he was not the person who could pull it off. Had there been a better leader, it might have gotten off the ground.
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(This post was last modified: 09-24-2018 12:22 PM by Jjoey52.)
RE: IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
You can't get third party traction without changing how we apportion representation and elect people. First Past The Post (FPTP) will always favor two strong parties.
RE: IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
(09-24-2018 12:12 PM)Kronke Wrote: 3 parties would just hand everything to the dems or GOP, whoever saw less siphoning off. Ideally, we'd have FOUR major parties. Neo-con GOP, neo-lib dem, progressive, and MAGA populist.
The bolded of your OP is why I can't be a libertarian. They see what has happened to Europe, yet remain naive enough to still want it brought here. Suicide.
There are Center right Republicans and Center left Democrats that do not fall under all 4. MAGA voters were primarily Democrats who voted for Obama. The problem they saw was the Republican leadership blocked many things. Trump rallied the people against these Republicans elitist for him to win. What he did was swing himself to line up with these same elitists that after he passed everything they could not get done in the past? They will backstabbed him, and impeached him to replaced him with Pence. I have a feeling that most of Trump's problems are coming from the Republicans who are laughing their butts off that Trump is laying blamed on Democrats. The Dems are not the ones behind the scenes in the White House.
RE: IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
(09-24-2018 12:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:
(09-24-2018 12:12 PM)Kronke Wrote: 3 parties would just hand everything to the dems or GOP, whoever saw less siphoning off. Ideally, we'd have FOUR major parties. Neo-con GOP, neo-lib dem, progressive, and MAGA populist.
The bolded of your OP is why I can't be a libertarian. They see what has happened to Europe, yet remain naive enough to still want it brought here. Suicide.
There are Center right Republicans and Center left Democrats that do not fall under all 4. MAGA voters were primarily Democrats who voted for Obama. The problem they saw was the Republican leadership blocked many things. Trump rallied the people against these Republicans elitist for him to win. What he did was swing himself to line up with these same elitists that after he passed everything they could not get done in the past? They will backstabbed him, and impeached him to replaced him with Pence. I have a feeling that most of Trump's problems are coming from the Republicans who are laughing their butts off that Trump is laying blamed on Democrats. The Dems are not the ones behind the scenes in the White House.
That's kind of the point, a lot of votes would actually have to be EARNED.
RE: IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
(09-24-2018 12:44 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote: There are 14 in Germany.
You could reasonably figure on close to a dozen that could exist here.
Socialist-Democrats (Bernie types)
Union Democrats (Many Trump supporters)
Liberal Democrats (Socially liberal, but fiscally conservative types)
Conservative Democrats (Fiscally conservative, first amendment, but socially liberal)
Country Club Republicans (Romney types)
Neocons (Bush types)
Christian Conservatives (Jerry Falwell types)
Republi-tarians (Republicans with Libertarian leanings)
RE: IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
I think two is the limit. You can only pander so much to a certain group before you begin to tick off the mass of your support. Which is why we are where we are today. The dems are pandering too much to the ultra-left progressives driving the moderates to either #maga or libertarian. When the tea party folks starting getting too influential in the GOP it pushed the moderates to the left towards Obama and his fairy tales.
I could see more variety popping up in Congress, but the president has too much power to ever let a hyper-focused fringe political party ever get control.
RE: IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
I think there is a better chance of 2 or more parties becoming mainstream than just 1 party simply due to the fact that the 3rd party likely hurts one of the 2 current main parties worse than the other.
RE: IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
(09-24-2018 01:02 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:
(09-24-2018 12:44 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote: There are 14 in Germany.
You could reasonably figure on close to a dozen that could exist here.
Socialist-Democrats (Bernie types)
Union Democrats (Many Trump supporters)
Liberal Democrats (Socially liberal, but fiscally conservative types)
Conservative Democrats (Fiscally conservative, first amendment, but socially liberal)
Country Club Republicans (Romney types)
Neocons (Bush types)
Christian Conservatives (Jerry Falwell types)
Republi-tarians (Republicans with Libertarian leanings)
Libertarians (Ron Paul types)
Moderates/Independents (Susan Collins types)
Probably a few more as well.
IMHO, an ideal scenario would be if the Sanders Democratic Socialists and ultra liberals (who now call themselves Progressives, but are closer to Sanders than they'd admit) would break off and siphon support from the Democrats. Then Constitutional Conservatives who reject not only Populism and the meddling of the neo-cons (foreign interventionalists) and social conservatives (issues that should be left to the states), but also the just to the right of liberalism libertarians, would break with the remnants of what is left of the GOP. We would then have four major political parties with more clearly defined philosophies. Of course, in my scenario, the Constitutional Conservatives would wipe the floor with the others, since they would have the philosophy rooted in the Constitution. What we have now is two parties inclined to make it up as we go along to suit the whims of the day rather than basing decisions from a foundation of a guiding philosophy.
RE: IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
(09-24-2018 12:12 PM)Kronke Wrote: 3 parties would just hand everything to the dems or GOP, whoever saw less siphoning off. Ideally, we'd have FOUR major parties. Neo-con GOP, neo-lib dem, progressive, and MAGA populist.
The bolded of your OP is why I can't be a libertarian. They see what has happened to Europe, yet remain naive enough to still want it brought here. Suicide.
RE: IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
(09-24-2018 03:10 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote: This is all pissing in the wind until you fundamentally change the voting system and how you apportion seats.
THIS!
People don't seem to realize that its a mathematical inevitability to end up at a two party system in a FPTP system.
It's not a long video, but this explains its perfectly.
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IMHO, we need a 3rd (or more) political parties in the U.S.
