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(09-23-2018 12:41 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Lots of great observations and analysis posted here this morning and I'm pretty much in agreement with most. Coaching has now moved light years beyond the late Tubs era and is demonstrably better than year one for this staff. There was some regression yesterday; who knows why. Most importantly, they showed resilience in overcoming mistakes and poor tackling.

Talent is demonstrably better than last year at key positions but will remain a work in progress for another year or so. It may be the last piece of the puzzle, but special teams, specifically punt and kickoff returners, are needed with speed and savvy. Breaking one of those for a score or red zone possession can be game changing.

Fans were great yesterday and hung in there pretty well despite the weather. My seats are under the club seating area in the lower bowl but high and dry, so it was easy for us. It was painful to watch at times but I told my wife if UC could get it down to one score I felt certain we'd prevail. Of course with Ohio at the goal line I never anticipated it would end in such a heart stopping way with less than a minute to go.

I believe I counted about 34 undefeated teams in FBS after week three. I suspect that herd got thinned considerably yesterday. So I'll join the greedy here in saying I want 8-0. If nothing else, it means we're assured a lot of press as the media love to note the schools with perfect records. I'll guess now that at 8-0, UC would be among less than 15 undefeated programs. And if three of those are from the AAC, all the better.

Finally, I'm hoping yesterday's miscues are cleaned up before a conference road game. Even though UCONN has played poorly so far, they always seem to give us a battle in Hartford. We're do for a runaway up there against an inferior opponent and it will be a lot more relaxing to watch than yesterday's game if it plays out that way. Go 'Cats!

I'm not sure about all the others, but in keeping with the theme of embarrassing losses, I know there's at least one fewer undefeated team with VaTech's debacle against Old Dominion, a team who lost by 6 TD's to Liberty...

(09-23-2018 04:21 PM)UCengr Wrote:  

(09-23-2018 12:41 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Lots of great observations and analysis posted here this morning and I'm pretty much in agreement with most. Coaching has now moved light years beyond the late Tubs era and is demonstrably better than year one for this staff. There was some regression yesterday; who knows why. Most importantly, they showed resilience in overcoming mistakes and poor tackling.

Talent is demonstrably better than last year at key positions but will remain a work in progress for another year or so. It may be the last piece of the puzzle, but special teams, specifically punt and kickoff returners, are needed with speed and savvy. Breaking one of those for a score or red zone possession can be game changing.

Fans were great yesterday and hung in there pretty well despite the weather. My seats are under the club seating area in the lower bowl but high and dry, so it was easy for us. It was painful to watch at times but I told my wife if UC could get it down to one score I felt certain we'd prevail. Of course with Ohio at the goal line I never anticipated it would end in such a heart stopping way with less than a minute to go.

I believe I counted about 34 undefeated teams in FBS after week three. I suspect that herd got thinned considerably yesterday. So I'll join the greedy here in saying I want 8-0. If nothing else, it means we're assured a lot of press as the media love to note the schools with perfect records. I'll guess now that at 8-0, UC would be among less than 15 undefeated programs. And if three of those are from the AAC, all the better.

Finally, I'm hoping yesterday's miscues are cleaned up before a conference road game. Even though UCONN has played poorly so far, they always seem to give us a battle in Hartford. We're do for a runaway up there against an inferior opponent and it will be a lot more relaxing to watch than yesterday's game if it plays out that way. Go 'Cats!

I'm not sure about all the others, but in keeping with the theme of embarrassing losses, I know there's at least one fewer undefeated team with VaTech's debacle against Old Dominion, a team who lost by 6 TD's to Liberty...

https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/artic...teams-2018

There are 21 teams left undefeated - 3 from the American (USF, UCF, and Cincinnati)

SEC: 4 (Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Kentucky)
ACC: 4 (Clemson, Duke, NCState, Syracuse)
AAC: 3 (UCF, USF, Cincinnati)
PAC12: 3 (Stanford, Berkley, Colorado)
B1G: 2 (tO$U, Penn State)
XII: 2 (Oklahoma, West Virginia)
MAC: 1 (Buffalo)
CUSA: 1 (North Texas)
Ind: 1 (Notre Dame)
MW:0

Keep winning - GO BEARCATS!

(09-22-2018 06:58 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 06:29 PM)crex043 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 06:00 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 05:56 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 05:35 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Disappointed that half the crowd left at the half.

The refs sucked big time.

Glad Solich was stupid and did not have QB line up under center for four quick hitters.

UC was back to bad D on 3rds.

Time management was decent on OU final drive.

Going for 2 was stupid. Being up 4 as good as five at that point.

Watching UConn v Sadexcuse. Got to win at UConn as they are not good.

Was't sure that many left at the half. Thought many just went under cover due to the rain.

Hard to support the team from under cover. It was a light rain. Sat through Miami rain so this rain was nothing.

We don't all have butlers to hold umbrellas over our heads.

They sell these things called Ponchos (is that cultural appropriation?)

Actually, the rain wasn't that bad. More of a heavy mist. There were quite a few people standing under cover but those that stayed in stands didn't suffer.

I have to laugh at first five or six pages of posting in this thread. So much gloom and doom - throw in the towel - bring in Hayden Moore - lol. The people around me in the stands never doubted we could make it a game.

Sitting behind the team, you could tell they hadn't and wouldn't give up. Just the way they carried themselves you knew the team was going to make a run before the end of the game. That's what I like about this team, they keep on fighting.

In the stands, our greatest frustration was with the officials. We don't always get the privilege of seeing the replays, but it looked like our guys were making some great plays and then having them taken away by the refs.

Ohio is a good team and made some unbelievable plays but we came back and matched them. I don't think we're going to win out this season, but I'm happy to know these guys are going to give us everything they've got! I can't ask for anything more than that.

Go Cats!

(09-22-2018 06:00 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 05:56 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 05:35 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Disappointed that half the crowd left at the half.

The refs sucked big time.

Glad Solich was stupid and did not have QB line up under center for four quick hitters.

UC was back to bad D on 3rds.

Time management was decent on OU final drive.

Going for 2 was stupid. Being up 4 as good as five at that point.

Watching UConn v Sadexcuse. Got to win at UConn as they are not good.

Was't sure that many left at the half. Thought many just went under cover due to the rain.

Hard to support the team from under cover. It was a light rain. Sat through Miami rain so this rain was nothing.

As you noted, it did not matter if we are ahead by four or five so why not go for two. If we make the two it forces Ohio to make a TD instead of being able to win with two FG's.

We were up 34 - 30. If OU had scored and then plus 2 - we would have needed a TD. If it was 35 - 30 and they got 8 a FG would have sent it to OT. IMO the 2 point try was a mistake.

(09-23-2018 07:38 PM)cpawstoney Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 06:00 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 05:56 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 05:35 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Disappointed that half the crowd left at the half.

The refs sucked big time.

Glad Solich was stupid and did not have QB line up under center for four quick hitters.

UC was back to bad D on 3rds.

Time management was decent on OU final drive.

Going for 2 was stupid. Being up 4 as good as five at that point.

Watching UConn v Sadexcuse. Got to win at UConn as they are not good.

Was't sure that many left at the half. Thought many just went under cover due to the rain.

Hard to support the team from under cover. It was a light rain. Sat through Miami rain so this rain was nothing.

As you noted, it did not matter if we are ahead by four or five so why not go for two. If we make the two it forces Ohio to make a TD instead of being able to win with two FG's.

But it did matter because if OU scored then they could've kicked an extra point to go up 3. Had we taken an extra point they would've needed a two point conversion to go up 3.

I understand that the chart says you go for two but being up 6 only matters if they miss an extra point ( extremely unlikely) or two FG ( unlikely given the time on the clock). Im guessing the win probably was probably pretty close to equal either way. I had no issue with the decision just pointing out that I don't think it was as simple as a no brainier based on the chart. The old chart doesn't take time situation into account.

(09-23-2018 07:49 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(09-23-2018 07:38 PM)cpawstoney Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 06:00 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 05:56 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 05:35 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Disappointed that half the crowd left at the half.

The refs sucked big time.

Glad Solich was stupid and did not have QB line up under center for four quick hitters.

UC was back to bad D on 3rds.

Time management was decent on OU final drive.

Going for 2 was stupid. Being up 4 as good as five at that point.

Watching UConn v Sadexcuse. Got to win at UConn as they are not good.

Was't sure that many left at the half. Thought many just went under cover due to the rain.

Hard to support the team from under cover. It was a light rain. Sat through Miami rain so this rain was nothing.

As you noted, it did not matter if we are ahead by four or five so why not go for two. If we make the two it forces Ohio to make a TD instead of being able to win with two FG's.

But it did matter because if OU scored then they could've kicked an extra point to go up 3. Had we taken an extra point they would've needed a two point conversion to go up 3.

I understand that the chart says you go for two but being up 6 only matters if they miss an extra point ( extremely unlikely) or two FG ( unlikely given the time on the clock). Im guessing the win probably was probably pretty close to equal either way. I had no issue with the decision just pointing out that I don't think it was as simple as a no brainier based on the chart. The old chart doesn't take time situation into account.

I'm not saying that was the right decision ... it's always easy to second guess ... I'm surmising that was the thought process.

That was an excellent if not imperfect win. I'm in my 35th year as a season ticket holder and i've seen a lot, but i think for those who are relatively new to the fan base this team is exceptionally young as compared to where we've been in the past. There will likely continue to be games this year where we'll play above what most of us expected coming into this season, but also likely some stinkers. Folks just have to hang with them good and bad. He's putting enough talent into the pipeline that we'll win our share of games. Biggest difference this year is we're protecting the ball. End of story. You limit your turnovers, and you will likely be in games at the end. So far for me that is the reason we're 4-0.

(09-23-2018 07:31 PM)cpawstoney Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 06:58 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 06:29 PM)crex043 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 06:00 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 05:56 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Was't sure that many left at the half. Thought many just went under cover due to the rain.

Hard to support the team from under cover. It was a light rain. Sat through Miami rain so this rain was nothing.

We don't all have butlers to hold umbrellas over our heads.

They sell these things called Ponchos (is that cultural appropriation?)

Actually, the rain wasn't that bad. More of a heavy mist. There were quite a few people standing under cover but those that stayed in stands didn't suffer.

I have to laugh at first five or six pages of posting in this thread. So much gloom and doom - throw in the towel - bring in Hayden Moore - lol. The people around me in the stands never doubted we could make it a game.

Sitting behind the team, you could tell they hadn't and wouldn't give up. Just the way they carried themselves you knew the team was going to make a run before the end of the game. That's what I like about this team, they keep on fighting.

In the stands, our greatest frustration was with the officials. We don't always get the privilege of seeing the replays, but it looked like our guys were making some great plays and then having them taken away by the refs.

Ohio is a good team and made some unbelievable plays but we came back and matched them. I don't think we're going to win out this season, but I'm happy to know these guys are going to give us everything they've got! I can't ask for anything more than that.

Go Cats!

I'm jealous. The people around me know only about half the rules, and they cry if the Cats don't score every time they touch the ball.

(09-23-2018 09:37 PM)dsquare Wrote:  That was an excellent if not imperfect win. I'm in my 35th year as a season ticket holder and i've seen a lot, but i think for those who are relatively new to the fan base this team is exceptionally young as compared to where we've been in the past. There will likely continue to be games this year where we'll play above what most of us expected coming into this season, but also likely some stinkers. Folks just have to hang with them good and bad. He's putting enough talent into the pipeline that we'll win our share of games. Biggest difference this year is we're protecting the ball. End of story. You limit your turnovers, and you will likely be in games at the end. So far for me that is the reason we're 4-0.

I agree with everything you shared and what I bolded I believe is the most critical element in my mind so far this season. Our quarterback and running back haven't had careless turnovers.

Someone speculated why we didn't see Thomas carrying the ball more on Saturday. He shows signs of being a very special player too. But I wonder if it had anything to do with playing from behind, in the rain, after he had fumbled in the red zone last weekend? That was covered by UC for a touchdown, but this coaching staff seems to have the players mentally focused on protecting the ball.

(09-23-2018 07:45 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  We were up 34 - 30. If OU had scored and then plus 2 - we would have needed a TD. If it was 35 - 30 and they got 8 a FG would have sent it to OT. IMO the 2 point try was a mistake.

totally agree

(09-24-2018 06:12 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(09-23-2018 09:37 PM)dsquare Wrote:  That was an excellent if not imperfect win. I'm in my 35th year as a season ticket holder and i've seen a lot, but i think for those who are relatively new to the fan base this team is exceptionally young as compared to where we've been in the past. There will likely continue to be games this year where we'll play above what most of us expected coming into this season, but also likely some stinkers. Folks just have to hang with them good and bad. He's putting enough talent into the pipeline that we'll win our share of games. Biggest difference this year is we're protecting the ball. End of story. You limit your turnovers, and you will likely be in games at the end. So far for me that is the reason we're 4-0.

I agree with everything you shared and what I bolded I believe is the most critical element in my mind so far this season. Our quarterback and running back haven't had careless turnovers.

Someone speculated why we didn't see Thomas carrying the ball more on Saturday. He shows signs of being a very special player too. But I wonder if it had anything to do with playing from behind, in the rain, after he had fumbled in the red zone last weekend? That was covered by UC for a touchdown, but this coaching staff seems to have the players mentally focused on protecting the ball.

I think the staff are relying on Doaks returning this week to help ease Warren's workload. They don't want to play some of these freshman too much and risk not being able to redshirt them.

I think the new rule will really change the way some teams play at the end of the season. Having two really good young RB's in Doaks and Warren means you don't need Thomas to play right away. Thomas could be a big releif for us in the last couple games where he is relatively fresh and able to provide a new threat in the final 2 or 3 games, get meaningful snaps, and still be able to redshirt.

(09-24-2018 06:30 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2018 07:45 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  We were up 34 - 30. If OU had scored and then plus 2 - we would have needed a TD. If it was 35 - 30 and they got 8 a FG would have sent it to OT. IMO the 2 point try was a mistake.

totally agree

So if we kick the extra point OU would have gone for 2 if they scored to get a 3 point lead. It essentially boils down to would you rather go for it offensively or try to defend it. Given the way the game was going I think the decision makes sense but I wouldn't have criticized either way.

(09-23-2018 07:49 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(09-23-2018 07:38 PM)cpawstoney Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 06:00 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 05:56 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 05:35 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Disappointed that half the crowd left at the half.

The refs sucked big time.

Glad Solich was stupid and did not have QB line up under center for four quick hitters.

UC was back to bad D on 3rds.

Time management was decent on OU final drive.

Going for 2 was stupid. Being up 4 as good as five at that point.

Watching UConn v Sadexcuse. Got to win at UConn as they are not good.

Was't sure that many left at the half. Thought many just went under cover due to the rain.

Hard to support the team from under cover. It was a light rain. Sat through Miami rain so this rain was nothing.

As you noted, it did not matter if we are ahead by four or five so why not go for two. If we make the two it forces Ohio to make a TD instead of being able to win with two FG's.

But it did matter because if OU scored then they could've kicked an extra point to go up 3. Had we taken an extra point they would've needed a two point conversion to go up 3.

I understand that the chart says you go for two but being up 6 only matters if they miss an extra point ( extremely unlikely) or two FG ( unlikely given the time on the clock). Im guessing the win probably was probably pretty close to equal either way. I had no issue with the decision just pointing out that I don't think it was as simple as a no brainier based on the chart. The old chart doesn't take time situation into account.

Don't underestimate the added pressure of an XP with the game on the line. A missed XP by Pitt is why we won that great game a few years back instead of going to OT. Heck how many missed XPs have our kickers had in past years? Quite a few.

The only real difference is that if they get the TD and XP, a FG from us ties it instead of wins it (When you don't convert the 2 pt attempt on our end). OU likely wouldn't go for 2 if they scored as they wouldn't want a FG to beat them. So I agree it is the right call to try to make it 6.

Sure XPs may not miss often, but you are counting on your defense to get a stop anyway. I'd rather take the chance that we get to 6 and then if they score the TD, they need to convert the XP to take the lead. Either way the other team has to find the end zone. So it comes down to, do we take a chance that they need the XP to beat us or do we let just a TD beat us. You don't know if you will even get the ball back. If you do, you still need at least a FG. If you get the 2 point conversion, FG wins. If you failed, FG ties (Or wins if they miss the XP).

I get your point that if we are up 35-30, and they score, they are going for 2 to try and get it to 38-35. FG still ties the game (And there is a better chance a FG wins). But then you don't look like you trust your defense or are playing to win. You are trying to get the win assuming your defense will give up a TD and then assume you will march down the field and hit a FG. No faith in your team if you do that. They would need a TD and 2 pt conversion with us still at 34 to make us find the end zone. But I can't imagine many coaches would go for 2 at 36-34 to force the other team to get a TD. You kick the XP so a FG doesn't beat you. Imagine how irate we would be if the Bearcats went up 36-34 and he went for 2 and failed and we lose on a last second FG.

(09-24-2018 06:30 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2018 07:45 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  We were up 34 - 30. If OU had scored and then plus 2 - we would have needed a TD. If it was 35 - 30 and they got 8 a FG would have sent it to OT. IMO the 2 point try was a mistake.

totally agree

Do you really think they would have gone for 2 to make us score a TD and risk a FG beating them? No coach in his right mind would do that. You take the XP and then a FG only sends you to OT. Especially with it raining a bit and the opponent having a freshman kicker. Regardless of what they do, a TD from us wins either way. You don't want to lose by 1 to a FG.

(09-24-2018 06:12 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(09-23-2018 09:37 PM)dsquare Wrote:  That was an excellent if not imperfect win. I'm in my 35th year as a season ticket holder and i've seen a lot, but i think for those who are relatively new to the fan base this team is exceptionally young as compared to where we've been in the past. There will likely continue to be games this year where we'll play above what most of us expected coming into this season, but also likely some stinkers. Folks just have to hang with them good and bad. He's putting enough talent into the pipeline that we'll win our share of games. Biggest difference this year is we're protecting the ball. End of story. You limit your turnovers, and you will likely be in games at the end. So far for me that is the reason we're 4-0.

I agree with everything you shared and what I bolded I believe is the most critical element in my mind so far this season. Our quarterback and running back haven't had careless turnovers.

Someone speculated why we didn't see Thomas carrying the ball more on Saturday. He shows signs of being a very special player too. But I wonder if it had anything to do with playing from behind, in the rain, after he had fumbled in the red zone last weekend? That was covered by UC for a touchdown, but this coaching staff seems to have the players mentally focused on protecting the ball.

Saturday's game was a tough fit to get guys in there on offense given i think we punted on our first 3 or 4 possessions and by then we're down 21-0. The offensive playbook gets even shorter when you have to play from behind that way, and you have a back in Warren who has shown he gets better with more carries. McClelland is another guy who i expect will get more touches assuming Doaks does not get back soon. We'll see. I'll be curious to see how the D responds at Uconn. Saturday was not their best effort, but they were in position to make a lot of big plays and it just didn't go there way. They played well on the road already at Ucla so we'll see if they bounce back. I enjoy watching this team immensely. It's fun to see different guys stepping up each week.

I think the numbers show going for 2 was the right play..particularly with how unreliable college kickers can be. However, my guess is if you looked at a win probability chart, the difference between going for 2 and kicking the extra point didn't change much at all. That decision was incredibly unlikely to have an impact one way or the other in the game. Amazed how focused people seem on it.

(09-24-2018 06:30 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2018 07:45 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  We were up 34 - 30. If OU had scored and then plus 2 - we would have needed a TD. If it was 35 - 30 and they got 8 a FG would have sent it to OT. IMO the 2 point try was a mistake.

totally agree

Totally disagree. Going for two had the potential to make it harder for OU to come back. Your not going for two theory only matters if you assume we were to give up a touchdown.

Coach to win the game, not to avoid losing.

(09-24-2018 09:01 AM)dsquare Wrote:  

(09-24-2018 06:12 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(09-23-2018 09:37 PM)dsquare Wrote:  That was an excellent if not imperfect win. I'm in my 35th year as a season ticket holder and i've seen a lot, but i think for those who are relatively new to the fan base this team is exceptionally young as compared to where we've been in the past. There will likely continue to be games this year where we'll play above what most of us expected coming into this season, but also likely some stinkers. Folks just have to hang with them good and bad. He's putting enough talent into the pipeline that we'll win our share of games. Biggest difference this year is we're protecting the ball. End of story. You limit your turnovers, and you will likely be in games at the end. So far for me that is the reason we're 4-0.

I agree with everything you shared and what I bolded I believe is the most critical element in my mind so far this season. Our quarterback and running back haven't had careless turnovers.

Someone speculated why we didn't see Thomas carrying the ball more on Saturday. He shows signs of being a very special player too. But I wonder if it had anything to do with playing from behind, in the rain, after he had fumbled in the red zone last weekend? That was covered by UC for a touchdown, but this coaching staff seems to have the players mentally focused on protecting the ball.

Saturday's game was a tough fit to get guys in there on offense given i think we punted on our first 3 or 4 possessions and by then we're down 21-0. The offensive playbook gets even shorter when you have to play from behind that way, and you have a back in Warren who has shown he gets better with more carries. McClelland is another guy who i expect will get more touches assuming Doaks does not get back soon. We'll see. I'll be curious to see how the D responds at Uconn. Saturday was not their best effort, but they were in position to make a lot of big plays and it just didn't go there way. They played well on the road already at Ucla so we'll see if they bounce back. I enjoy watching this team immensely. It's fun to see different guys stepping up each week.

Similar to the Miami game, in a tight ballgame in the rain it seemed like they just didn't want to risk putting the ball in the hands of the freshmen (Thomas' action against Miami came after Warren got dinged up).

As for the defense, I liked the adjustments and effort they put forth in the second half. Ohio's offense is pretty darn good. A very good QB who made a lot of great throws but also can run and is tough to bring down. I was impressed with their OL as they stifled our rush most of the game and created space for their RBs who hit the holes hard. And then their WRs were able to get some separation and made a few great catches. I just thought, in general, their offense was very difficult to defend given how multiple it was - speed option, power run, spread passing, crossing routes, etc.

We played a lot of guys on D which was key to keep guys fresh as they had the ball for over 35 minutes. Loved the adjustments and the resolve of our D.

OU's offense is pretty good, and they scored 30 on us... However, when considering that 2 of their scoring drives were heavily sustained by questionable penalties, that makes our defensive performance quite impressive IMO.