The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

W&M is a tough nut to crack. I know several who went there. They all were smart, but not top 10 in their class smart. Seems they weigh a lot of different factors when considering acceptance in Williamsburg. I went to ODU with a guy who was actually accepted to UVA. He turned down UVA to go to ODU. He had some friends who were going to ODU at the time (90s) and he had a great campus visit. Not sure he didn't wind up regretting that decision in retrospect, but it happened. And he's a somewhat satisfied alumnus and successful in his career.

(08-28-2018 11:11 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  Had a long response about the follies of the American admissions system, society's views of said system, and how dumb I find that universities are perceived "better" based on high school GPAs and other petty metrics, but ultimately:

Education shouldn't be a particularly elitist process. Anyone who is willing to learn deserves a reputable education and I'm proud ODU serves a mission that "higher ranked" schools have ignored for much too long.

Anyone who works has experienced the UVA grad that never gets it, and the SUNY-Potsdam grad that does.

So you think they should admit 100% of the students that apply no matter what they did in HS?

ODU does a good job of serving our community and should be proud of that. A strong STEM program and an inclusive, diverse student population is a good thing.

We do face the challenge of traditional metrics not working in our favor. Things like first year retention and graduation rate which will be inherently lower for ODU (with commuters and a somewhat transient population like the Navy) than with more traditional 4 year universities.

All that said, it's extremely frustrating to see acceptance compromised the way it is. ODU should strive to be the best version of itself that it can be and prevent any sort of feedback loop through it's admissions policies. It's time for ODU to ensure the quality of student matches the growth of the university.

(08-28-2018 11:11 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  Had a long response about the follies of the American admissions system, society's views of said system, and how dumb I find that universities are perceived "better" based on high school GPAs and other petty metrics, but ultimately:

Education shouldn't be a particularly elitist process. Anyone who is willing to learn deserves a reputable education and I'm proud ODU serves a mission that "higher ranked" schools have ignored for much too long.

No issue with that. But the quality of the education is perceived as less than, which has an impact on people's job opportunities after graduation. The education at ODU is very good, but perception is reality. From what I understand, the service students receive is sub-standard though. Thats part of the brand too. ODU needs to learn to play the perception game MUCH MUCH better. Also, better academic reputation leads to higher caliber admits, which use the schools reputation and the education received their to start their careers. If they get a leg up on their peers in their careers they will make more money and hopefully donate it back to the school (and some to athletics), and continue to be involved in a positive cycle. Will the students of today support athletics by buying tickets and joining ODAF in the future? Will they be as engaged and generous as alumni from places like JMU, GMU, ECU, UNCC? I hope so.

(08-28-2018 11:21 AM)ODU2003 Wrote:  We do face the challenge of traditional metrics not working in our favor. Things like first year retention and graduation rate which will be inherently lower for ODU (with commuters and a somewhat transient population like the Navy) than with more traditional 4 year universities.

That would make sense except VCU and GMU face the same urban, commuter, transient hurdles and are doing much better. The Military might hurt retention and graduation rate, but that affiliation can also be a strength if the students think they are getting a quality education and having a top rate experience. Problem is, we've somehow dropped the ball on that too. Last I checked we have dropped out of the "Best school for military" designation. How is that possible being a few miles down the road from the largest base? Is ODU a yellow ribbon school? If not, they need to be.

I'm a good statistic to back your thoughts smudge. I coasted through HS and couldn't care much less about my GPA (I think 2.7 maybe). Barely enough to get into ODU at the time. Same thing with ODU. I did barely enough to coast by until my 300 level classes and it was like woa. Time to pay attention. And my grades shot up. Maturity has a lot to do with that too.

(08-28-2018 11:29 AM)monarx Wrote:  Problem is, we've somehow dropped the ball on that too. Last I checked we have dropped out of the "Best school for military" designation. How is that possible being a few miles down the road from the largest base? Is ODU a yellow ribbon school? If not, they need to be.

This has us ranked 50th, which is #1 in Virginia.
https://bestforvets.militarytimes.com/20...es/4-year/

And we're still rated as a gold school by Military Friendly (as we have been for 8 straight years)
http://militaryfriendly.com/schools/old-...niversity/

(08-28-2018 11:38 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  I'm a good statistic to back your thoughts smudge. I coasted through HS and couldn't care much less about my GPA (I think 2.7 maybe). Barely enough to get into ODU at the time. Same thing with ODU. I did barely enough to coast by until my 300 level classes and it was like woa. Time to pay attention. And my grades shot up. Maturity has a lot to do with that too.

Same here. I ended up on academic probation at one point at ODU and got my act together. ODU also found a learning disability that the Virginia Beach Public Schools did not pick up on in my 1st-12th grade stay there. We all want ODU to be The Harvard of The South but there is something to be said for taking a calculated risk on the middle of the pack kid. ODU has a history of doing that and that legacy should continue.

(08-28-2018 08:31 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(08-27-2018 11:12 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 07:46 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  We are letting in people that have no chance of graduating. Raise the standards! Higher GPAs to get in. They claim diversity and including all students, I don't care where they came from or what they look like. Stop letting in dumb students

That be racist.

I assume you're kidding, but ODU has an incredible amount of diversity. I truly don't understand how the state lets JMU and Radford get away with being so monochromatic. ODU is doing fantastic in the diversity department with actually a smaller percentage of white kids than the state population. (Va is 69%W, 22%B, 13%L, 7%A.) I agree they need to shift focus to bringing in the best and brightest no matter what, and start promoting ODU as a great place for them to come and get a top tier education from a large state research university near the beach. But then they have to pay that off too.
FWIW, Here is the racial breakdown of several other state schools:

ODU 46%W, 27%B, 7%L rest less than 5%
VCU 69%W, 15B, rest less than 5%
GMU 61% W, 7%B, rest less than 5%
JMU 75%W, rest less than 5%
Radford 71%W, 13%B rest less than 5%
CNU 68%W, 26%B, rest less than 5%
VT 67% W, 9%B, rest less than 5%
UVA 60%W, 12%A, 6%B rest less than 5%

ODU has the diversity thing nailed. Time to focus on some other things too. And not online education.

Yet UVA and JMU are hugely liberal Universities ! What a bunch of Hypocrites ! But if they had to reduce the # of Out of state rich white kids to increase minority admissions, their donor base would revolt. Just shows you the hypocrisy of the left.

(08-28-2018 11:50 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:38 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  I'm a good statistic to back your thoughts smudge. I coasted through HS and couldn't care much less about my GPA (I think 2.7 maybe). Barely enough to get into ODU at the time. Same thing with ODU. I did barely enough to coast by until my 300 level classes and it was like woa. Time to pay attention. And my grades shot up. Maturity has a lot to do with that too.

I think what bothers me more is that a school like UVA gets money thrown at it because they have a bunch of students who were great between the ages of 14-18...yet schools who serve the same mission, perhaps to people who matured a little later like yourself (and me)...get MUCH less. While I want UVA to do well because it is a public good which serves a critical mission, there's no reason every state university shouldn't be invested into equally per student.

What we have now is a messed up system that continues an awful cycle, but now we're reaching more into politics and societal views of higher education.

I can get behind you on that. I'm a success in all measures by the University and I could have NEVER got into UVA out of high school. And I do much better than many of my peers that did better in high school than myself and got into those top tier schools. Late bloomers deserve a chance too! =]

If you look at it from a supply demand perspective what is better? Having higher requirements to get in, creating exclusivity, or allowing equal opportunity to prove your metal and having lower graduation rates? On their own they tell different stories. "ODU has a 40% graduation rate! Yuck!" The other side of that coin is "Man, you want to get a degree that's tough, rigorous work and means something, check out ODU." Not only do you get a broader scope of the real world and it's makeup through a diverse environment you also are part of a smaller elite % of the population that cut the mustard.

It's all about how you spin it.

(08-28-2018 11:53 AM)ODU2K1 Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:38 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  I'm a good statistic to back your thoughts smudge. I coasted through HS and couldn't care much less about my GPA (I think 2.7 maybe). Barely enough to get into ODU at the time. Same thing with ODU. I did barely enough to coast by until my 300 level classes and it was like woa. Time to pay attention. And my grades shot up. Maturity has a lot to do with that too.

Same here. I ended up on academic probation at one point at ODU and got my act together. ODU also found a learning disability that the Virginia Beach Public Schools did not pick up on in my 1st-12th grade stay there. We all want ODU to be The Harvard of The South but there is something to be said for taking a calculated risk on the middle of the pack kid. ODU has a history of doing that and that legacy should continue.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I was no scholar coming out of HS either and am thankful not all schools require straight As. I think the thing that bothers me is I had plenty of other options (not UVA or WM) and chose to go to ODU over the likes of VCU & ECU. At the time all three were of equal academic reputation and I liked ODUs campus and proximity to the beach better than VCU. In state tuition and the fact I liked Norfolk/VB better than Greenville won out over ECU. ODU was great for me, but it does hurt when grads of those schools now look down their noses at ODU based on rankings and public perception. It wasn't always that way. If anything, I would have thought ODU would have grown into the best over the years out of VCU, ECU and CNU. It didnt work out that way.

It would seem that a ranking of how "good" a college is would be the impact it has on a student's ability to better their life situations. The Social Mobility Index measures that particular aspect, and ODU does rather well in it.

http://www.socialmobilityindex.org/

(08-28-2018 11:38 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  I'm a good statistic to back your thoughts smudge. I coasted through HS and couldn't care much less about my GPA (I think 2.7 maybe). Barely enough to get into ODU at the time. Same thing with ODU. I did barely enough to coast by until my 300 level classes and it was like woa. Time to pay attention. And my grades shot up. Maturity has a lot to do with that too.

Similar story here. I'm not dumb, per se, but until my senior year my grades didn't reflect it. 2.0-ish until that senior year where I took all classes that interested me, and my grades and extracurricular involvement skyrocketed. Got turned down a handful of places, GMU and Radford rejected me then accepted me on appeal after I showed my improvement, and VCU asked for the senior year stuff before making a decision (they offered and I accepted). Same deal in college: struggled mightily as a lazy kid living on his own for the first time. Came back to Hampton Roads, transferred to ODU, took a few years off when I foolishly thought a part-time job in my profession would pay off with full-time employment more quicky, returned to ODU when that plan predictably failed in spectacular fashion, and lo and behold, buoyed by more life experience and more classes in my specialty, skyrocketed again.

My point (I think) is that especially now that higher education is a prerequisite for most desirable jobs, trying to become more discriminating and higher-minded with their incoming class undercuts the mission they serve. It's like a cheaper restaurant that has a good customer base but wants to improve their standing by offering a higher-end experience in hopes of going head-to-head with the 3- and 4-star restaurants. You run a real risk of being stuck in no man's land where you've alienated your customers while the ones you think you want are staying with the most established places.

ODU should be the best school it can be but if it comes at expense of their mission, which is different than UVa or W&M's, then it might be a pyrrhic win. I think ODU is better suited focusing on providing the best academic and student-life experience possible for the students it attracts instead of wishing it had students that were more worthy of it.

(08-28-2018 02:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:38 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  I'm a good statistic to back your thoughts smudge. I coasted through HS and couldn't care much less about my GPA (I think 2.7 maybe). Barely enough to get into ODU at the time. Same thing with ODU. I did barely enough to coast by until my 300 level classes and it was like woa. Time to pay attention. And my grades shot up. Maturity has a lot to do with that too.

Similar story here. I'm not dumb, per se, but until my senior year my grades didn't reflect it. 2.0-ish until that senior year where I took all classes that interested me, and my grades and extracurricular involvement skyrocketed. Got turned down a handful of places, GMU and Radford rejected me then accepted me on appeal after I showed my improvement, and VCU asked for the senior year stuff before making a decision (they offered and I accepted). Same deal in college: struggled mightily as a lazy kid living on his own for the first time. Came back to Hampton Roads, transferred to ODU, took a few years off when I foolishly thought a part-time job in my profession would pay off with full-time employment more quicky, returned to ODU when that plan predictably failed in spectacular fashion, and lo and behold, buoyed by more life experience and more classes in my specialty, skyrocketed again.

My point (I think) is that especially now that higher education is a prerequisite for most desirable jobs, trying to become more discriminating and higher-minded with their incoming class undercuts the mission they serve. It's like a cheaper restaurant that has a good customer base but wants to improve their standing by offering a higher-end experience in hopes of going head-to-head with the 3- and 4-star restaurants. You run a real risk of being stuck in no man's land where you've alienated your customers while the ones you think you want are staying with the most established places.

ODU should be the best school it can be but if it comes at expense of their mission, which is different than UVa or W&M's, then it might be a pyrrhic win. I think ODU is better suited focusing on providing the best academic and student-life experience possible for the students it attracts instead of wishing it had students that were more worthy of it.

Agreed, but using your analogy somehow the other 2 star and even 1 star restaurants moved up to 3 and 4 star places while ODU remained a 2 star. Never thought I'd see the day ODU was considered a less desirable school than CNU or Radford. We were an 18,000 strong division 1 university when CNU© was a 2 year school with no dorms at all.

(08-28-2018 02:12 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 02:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:38 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  I'm a good statistic to back your thoughts smudge. I coasted through HS and couldn't care much less about my GPA (I think 2.7 maybe). Barely enough to get into ODU at the time. Same thing with ODU. I did barely enough to coast by until my 300 level classes and it was like woa. Time to pay attention. And my grades shot up. Maturity has a lot to do with that too.

Similar story here. I'm not dumb, per se, but until my senior year my grades didn't reflect it. 2.0-ish until that senior year where I took all classes that interested me, and my grades and extracurricular involvement skyrocketed. Got turned down a handful of places, GMU and Radford rejected me then accepted me on appeal after I showed my improvement, and VCU asked for the senior year stuff before making a decision (they offered and I accepted). Same deal in college: struggled mightily as a lazy kid living on his own for the first time. Came back to Hampton Roads, transferred to ODU, took a few years off when I foolishly thought a part-time job in my profession would pay off with full-time employment more quicky, returned to ODU when that plan predictably failed in spectacular fashion, and lo and behold, buoyed by more life experience and more classes in my specialty, skyrocketed again.

My point (I think) is that especially now that higher education is a prerequisite for most desirable jobs, trying to become more discriminating and higher-minded with their incoming class undercuts the mission they serve. It's like a cheaper restaurant that has a good customer base but wants to improve their standing by offering a higher-end experience in hopes of going head-to-head with the 3- and 4-star restaurants. You run a real risk of being stuck in no man's land where you've alienated your customers while the ones you think you want are staying with the most established places.

ODU should be the best school it can be but if it comes at expense of their mission, which is different than UVa or W&M's, then it might be a pyrrhic win. I think ODU is better suited focusing on providing the best academic and student-life experience possible for the students it attracts instead of wishing it had students that were more worthy of it.

Agreed, but using your analogy somehow the other 2 star and even 1 star restaurants moved up to 3 and 4 star places while ODU remained a 2 star. Never thought I'd see the day ODU was considered a less desirable school than CNU or Radford. We were an 18,000 strong division 1 university when CNU© was a 2 year school with no dorms at all.

I would question whether CNU and Radford are more desirable than ODU. VCU and Mason are doing a little better but it's not like comparing Duke to Longwood or something.

Don't confuse # of applications with institutional desirability. There are a lot of ways to increase applications that have nothing to do with the number of students who actually want to attend your institution.

(08-28-2018 11:17 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 11:11 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  Had a long response about the follies of the American admissions system, society's views of said system, and how dumb I find that universities are perceived "better" based on high school GPAs and other petty metrics, but ultimately:

Education shouldn't be a particularly elitist process. Anyone who is willing to learn deserves a reputable education and I'm proud ODU serves a mission that "higher ranked" schools have ignored for much too long.

Anyone who works has experienced the UVA grad that never gets it, and the SUNY-Potsdam grad that does.

So you think they should admit 100% of the students that apply no matter what they did in HS?

Not sure he said that. He is just saying that to judge a school based on who they admit, and based on HS GPA's that are weighted and inflated to ensure that almost 2/3 of HS graduates have a B average or better. Is a bit ridiculous. ODU fills a niche in the state that allows good students an opportunity to get an excellent education. When I worked in the admission office, we had more Valedictorian's and Salutatorian's on campus than any other school in Virginia, but we also admitted kids with quite average GPA's most of whom were very successful.

This is kind of a big deal where I work.

[attachment=9566]

Sent from my SM-G965U using CSNbbs mobile app

(09-05-2018 08:18 AM)bigblueodu Wrote:  This is kind of a big deal where I work.



Sent from my SM-G965U using CSNbbs mobile app

I find this military discount campaign interesting. I support our military and am thankful for their service. However, I work in higher ed marketing, and just had a meeting with our head Military Engagement (recruiter) yesterday. I specifically asked him if tuition costs were a major factor for military choosing a school or program, and he said not really. With GI Bill money readily available, and in-state tuition available for military no matter what state they are in, that tuition costs were really not a factor.

He emphasized academic reputation, specific military support, campus culture, the type of people you would be in class with (ie: not all military, diversity of culture and careers), potential network, flexibility if you aren't in your transition out period and geographic location. All were more important than cost.

For that reason, I wonder if ODU is just leaving needed money on the table with this. If the military people are not choosing schools based on tuition, we likely don't see an increase in numbers due to this. It cant hurt in any way other than financially, and may generate some good will and press amongst the target audience however. I just wonder if its worth it and if ODU will see the results it expects.

I think it depends on the branch of the military. Air Force tuition assistance now fully pays for odu undergraduate tuition so airmen can save their GI Bill for graduate work or transfer it to family members.

Sent from my SM-G965U using CSNbbs mobile app