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(08-29-2018 07:31 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  I don't mind if a president has a bit of a boorish side or drops some f-bombs behind closed doors. In fact, most presidents in history have had a prick-ish side to them. LBJ, a man known for enacting the Civil Rights Act, was among the worst.

But you have to know when to reign it in, put on the presidential hat, and not let a "say anything" persona be the centerpoint of your governance.

LBJ would be recklessly demonized and marginalized now by the radical left for un-PC language (by today's standards, not mid-20th Century standards).

Yes, the Democrats have to be careful as well. Last thing we need is a further surge of "socialists" like Ocasio-whatshername to win elections.

Conservatives often incorrectly derided Bill/Hillary Clinton and Obama as big time leftists, but they'll be begging for their centrism if the Bernie wing takes over.

The reasonable moderates seem to be getting squeezed out as more and more people, too hooked on online social media, pick their far corner of the boxing ring.

(08-29-2018 07:45 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Yes, the Democrats have to be careful as well. Last thing we need is a further surge of "socialists" like Ocasio-whatshername to win elections.

Conservatives often incorrectly derided Bill/Hillary Clinton and Obama as big time leftists, but they'll be begging for their centrism if the Bernie wing takes over.

The reasonable moderates seem to be getting squeezed out as more and more people, too hooked on online social media, pick their far corner of the boxing ring.

Good points, particularly about moderates getting squeezed.

That is where the proposal to address political gerrymandering comes into play. The way things are now, the party in power draws the lines to make the majority of representative districts unwinnable for the minority party. This makes the primary winner a shoe-in for the general election and plays to the ideological extremes since they do not have to come center, and appeal to members of the other party in the general to win.

If a non-partisan, unbiased organization drew the lines, we would likely have more competitive general elections where both candidates will need to draw support from the other party to win. That means more centrist candidates and marginalizes the wing-nut purists who don't understand the difference between compromise and capitulation.

Both the GOP and the Democrats have a history of reckless and arbitrary gerrymandering in Michigan. They can't help it. It is part of their DNA.

Gotta get redistricting out of the political arena and into one that puts the people before the party or an ethereal ideology.

(08-29-2018 07:31 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  I don't mind if a president has a bit of a boorish side or drops some f-bombs behind closed doors.

LMFOA

Any married guys read this board?

Try calling the woman you pledged your life to a c_unt (when your pissed) in front of other people.

See if she thinks it's even close to the same thing.

Serious question.

Why all the adoration/adulation for John McCain?

His character?
His political worldview (domestic/foreign)?
His time/experience in Viet Nam?
He hated the current POTUS?

(08-29-2018 03:44 PM)ess Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 07:31 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  I don't mind if a president has a bit of a boorish side or drops some f-bombs behind closed doors.

LMFOA

Any married guys read this board?

Try calling the woman you pledged your life to a c_unt (when your pissed) in front of other people.

See if she thinks it's even close to the same thing.

Serious question.

Why all the adoration/adulation for John McCain?

His character?
His political worldview (domestic/foreign)?
His time/experience in Viet Nam?
He hated the current POTUS?

Time/experience in Vietnam
McCain-Feingold

McCain certainly had his low moments but he spent six more years as a POW than current POTUS spent in military.

He may have been quoted calling his wife a vulgar word but didn't tell a TV reporter he could "grab (women) by the p___y" or have affairs with a porn star and Playboy model as it appears POTUS may have.

For whatever personal flaws he had McCain was a dedicated public servant for over 30 years. The current occupant of WH will never come close to that.

It’s widely known that McCain had several affairs on his 1st wife for what its worth...he was quite the playboy for a while.

(08-29-2018 05:12 PM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  It’s widely known that McCain had several affairs on his 1st wife for what its worth...he was quite the playboy for a while.

Yes, that's among what I meant by "low moments."

Perhaps understated.

(08-29-2018 03:44 PM)ess Wrote:  Serious question.

Why all the adoration/adulation for John McCain?

His character?
His political worldview (domestic/foreign)?
His time/experience in Viet Nam?
He hated the current POTUS?

I answered this in Post #18, paragraphs 2 and 3.

But the quick answer here is a mix of the following: Vietnam/POW history, willingness to work with D's to arrive at solutions, and yes, in part because he went head-to-head with Trump on occasion.

I must admit John McCain’s politics are not my cup of tea. He and Lindsey Graham became just kind of caricatures to be trotted out when certain military points of view needed presentation.

I don’t feel any adulation for him at all. They say his crashing 6 separate military jets set a record in the Navy.

What I do feel is respect. His time in Hanoi alone qualifies him as a genuine hero. I forgive him for whatever personality defects he displayed. The trauma he endured absolutely alters the mind in some ways. He spoke his own mind in his own way. He acknowledged when he realized he was wrong.

So yeah. We should be able to respect people even if we do not agree with their stances. We are all different, our life experience varies. If we could respect different points of view we’d all be better for it.

May he Rest In Peace.

Fair and balanced?

Worth a read, IMHO

..."Back in 2000, David Foster Wallace saw in the crowds applauding McCain people “cheering not for him so much as for how good it feels to believe him.”

McCain’s political life played out at the nexus of elemental American beliefs—that suffering yields wisdom, that sacrifice is morally redemptive, and that suffering in war is the most noble and purifying experience of them all"....

(08-28-2018 04:56 PM)ess Wrote:  

(08-28-2018 03:48 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  As far as calling his wife the "C'" word - you'll have to provide a link.

They aren't hard to find....

The author's thesis is a bit far fetched, IMHO

This widespread adoration of John McCain is interesting to observe.

It's phony for the most part. John McCain was no Saint and it's nauseating to try and paint him to be one now. Much of it IMO is that the news media hates Trump and is using the McCain funeral as a way to get back at him. McCain was petty in his hatred for Trump in an almost childish an infantile way.

We had 10 days of quasi-deification of a very flawed man, a lot of folks found it nauseating. The man died, OK-I'm going to die and you're going to die as well. It's our common fate. My late brother died last year of Glio Blastoma, the same cancer that took John McCain-but Bro was only 59 while McCain was a ripe old 81. Unlike McCain, my Bro was true to his convictions until the end and didn't use his memorial service as an attack against someone he didn't care for in life. Certainly nobody was told they weren't invited, like Carol McCain, Donald Trump and Sarah Palin were.

Hopefully McCain's seat will be filled by somebody more filled with positive thoughts and feelings. He won't be missed by some of us.

(08-30-2018 10:29 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  I must admit John McCain’s politics are not my cup of tea. He and Lindsey Graham became just kind of caricatures to be trotted out when certain military points of view needed presentation.

I don’t feel any adulation for him at all. They say his crashing 6 separate military jets set a record in the Navy.

What I do feel is respect. His time in Hanoi alone qualifies him as a genuine hero. I forgive him for whatever personality defects he displayed. The trauma he endured absolutely alters the mind in some ways. He spoke his own mind in his own way. He acknowledged when he realized he was wrong.

So yeah. We should be able to respect people even if we do not agree with their stances. We are all different, our life experience varies. If we could respect different points of view we’d all be better for it.

May he Rest In Peace.

Respect goes both ways, McCain treated many folks without respect in his lifetime.

I'll concede he endured hell as a POW in Hanoi and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on the whole 'Songbird' story, because I simply don't know. He treated his wife like **** when he got back from Nam, chasing every skirt he could and eventually dumping her for some money'd lady-more suiting for a US Senator in McCain's eyes. Rumor has it Reagan couldn't stand McCain for how he treated his ex-wife. She wasn't invited to the Funeral/Memorial service either. Pettiness unto the end.

(08-29-2018 08:09 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 07:45 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Yes, the Democrats have to be careful as well. Last thing we need is a further surge of "socialists" like Ocasio-whatshername to win elections.

Conservatives often incorrectly derided Bill/Hillary Clinton and Obama as big time leftists, but they'll be begging for their centrism if the Bernie wing takes over.

The reasonable moderates seem to be getting squeezed out as more and more people, too hooked on online social media, pick their far corner of the boxing ring.

Good points, particularly about moderates getting squeezed.

That is where the proposal to address political gerrymandering comes into play. The way things are now, the party in power draws the lines to make the majority of representative districts unwinnable for the minority party. This makes the primary winner a shoe-in for the general election and plays to the ideological extremes since they do not have to come center, and appeal to members of the other party in the general to win.

If a non-partisan, unbiased organization drew the lines, we would likely have more competitive general elections where both candidates will need to draw support from the other party to win. That means more centrist candidates and marginalizes the wing-nut purists who don't understand the difference between compromise and capitulation.

Both the GOP and the Democrats have a history of reckless and arbitrary gerrymandering in Michigan. They can't help it. It is part of their DNA.

Gotta get redistricting out of the political arena and into one that puts the people before the party or an ethereal ideology.

You are never going to remove politics from redistricting. Politics was involved in the districting in the first place. Both parties use it and the party in power uses it more often. Way it is. Way it always will be. No judge is going to stop it.

McCain's first wife, Carol. She was badly injured in an automobile accident when McCain was a POW and walked with a slight limp. Apparently McCain didn't consider her a suitable Senators wife because he divorced her to marry wealthy Cindy Hensley, 17 years younger than him. Ronald Reagan, who Carol worked for in the White House, was appalled at John McCain's callous behavior and had little to do with him after that. Carol, surprisingly, has never spoken a harsh word about John since the divorce-she's far bigger than he was.

Carol, like Donald Trump and Sarah Palin was specifically identified by John McCain as NOT to be invited to his memorial service. If you want to call that circle jerk/hate fest a memorial service. McCain was petty unto the end.