The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Luck has nothing to do with why we are heading into year 6 with no at larges, no conference tourney or conference regular seasons titles and only 1 nit birth.

Mediocre coaching and recruiting yes.......luck, no.

(08-25-2018 01:36 PM)imfsff3 Wrote:  I'm not sure who some people think we are. We're NOT in a P5 conference. We're not even in the A10. We're in the lowly CUSA. The way the NCAA committee works these days is that G5 conferences or lower get 1 (yes 1) bid only, unless there is an exceptional situation. If the playing field was level, we would have played in March last year (even the NIT), but it's not. Look at what happened to Middle Tennessee last year. JJ has done a very respectable job, not exceptional. Until the day a P5 or A10 conference comes calling we're stuck where we are. Makes me wish we still played CAA basketball where we could win out many years!

I started following the Monarchs in 1991/92. (the same year we turned down the A10) From 1991 to 2013 (Purnell, Capel, Taylor years) ODU went to the NCAAs 7 times in 22 seasons. Thats 31.8% of the time. We also went to the NIT 4 times in that period, so our NIT and NCAA postseason appearances were 50%. Thats who I think we are. It's who ODU has been for decades. A top mid-major. that is in the tournament or NIT 50% of the time. I would think the Monarchs would be offended by folks who think they less than that. Do I think the ship is now headed in the right direction? Yes. Do I want JJ to be successful? Absolutely. But things definitely need to get better. Hopefully this extension helps JJ get over the hump and get us back in the NCAAs at least 30% of the time.

And now we’re in a supposedly better conference with a bigger profile and an upgraded campus/football/practice facility etc.

JJ really has no excuse except “bad luck”. Lol

I'm not buying the excuses (and Harry referred to them as well) about how much harder it is for a mid-major to get into the NCAA's nowadays. If we're talking at-large bids, it's always been hard for a mid major to get those. In any case, it's not like JJ has been putting together consistent Top 50 squads that have been screwed over by the NCAA Committee every year. If that were the case, the discussion would be quite different, and the blame would not be on JJ. But JJ has not fielded a team that has been remotely good enough to sniff an at-large bid. (One could argue that the 2015 squad was at-large worthy, but that would be overly generous). ODU has failed to receive an at-large bid for one reason. The teams have not been good enough, not even close.

Having said that, at-large bids have been rare at ODU. We have 2 (maybe 3) in our history. The normal path for ODU to get to the NCAAs has been to win the conference tournament. Once again, the reason that we have not done so is because the team has not been good enough. We've been to one championship game. We have zero regular season titles (I believe that our highest finish was 3rd on a couple of occasions in what everyone describes as a "crappy" conference). How many Top 100 finishes have we had? 2? Maybe 3? What is the last big win ODU had in Basketball? Murray State? VCU?

Sure, some can tout our impressive 23-wins-per-year stat as an accomplishment, but knowledgeable fans aren't buying it. The NCAA and NIT Committees surely aren't impressed.

Sorry, but JJ"s run has been the very definition of mediocre. Hell, we can't even make fun of W&M anymore.

I'm hopeful that the pickup in recruiting bodes well for our future (assuming we can keep them long enough). But please, let's stop with the excuses. ODU has not been worthy of an NCAA bid for a long time, and the system is not to blame.

(08-26-2018 07:37 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I'm not buying the excuses (and Harry referred to them as well) about how much harder it is for a mid-major to get into the NCAA's nowadays. If we're talking at-large bids, it's always been hard for a mid major to get those. In any case, it's not like JJ has been putting together consistent Top 50 squads that have been screwed over by the NCAA Committee every year. If that were the case, the discussion would be quite different, and the blame would not be on JJ. But JJ has not fielded a team that has been remotely good enough to sniff an at-large bid. (One could argue that the 2015 squad was at-large worthy, but that would be overly generous). ODU has failed to receive an at-large bid for one reason. The teams have not been good enough, not even close.

Having said that, at-large bids have been rare at ODU. We have 2 (maybe 3) in our history. The normal path for ODU to get to the NCAAs has been to win the conference tournament. Once again, the reason that we have not done so is because the team has not been good enough. We've been to one championship game. We have zero regular season titles (I believe that our highest finish was 3rd on a couple of occasions in what everyone describes as a "crappy" conference). How many Top 100 finishes have we had? 2? Maybe 3? What is the last big win ODU had in Basketball? Murray State? VCU?

Sure, some can tout our impressive 23-wins-per-year stat as an accomplishment, but knowledgeable fans aren't buying it. The NCAA and NIT Committees surely aren't impressed.

Sorry, but JJ"s run has been the very definition of mediocre. Hell, we can't even make fun of W&M anymore.

I'm hopeful that the pickup in recruiting bodes well for our future (assuming we can keep them long enough). But please, let's stop with the excuses. ODU has not been worthy of an NCAA bid for a long time, and the system is not to blame.

Well stated and completely irrefutable to anyone with even an ounce of integrity or intellect.

(08-25-2018 01:36 PM)imfsff3 Wrote:  I'm not sure who some people think we are. We're NOT in a P5 conference. We're not even in the A10. We're in the lowly CUSA. The way the NCAA committee works these days is that G5 conferences or lower get 1 (yes 1) bid only, unless there is an exceptional situation. If the playing field was level, we would have played in March last year (even the NIT), but it's not. Look at what happened to Middle Tennessee last year. JJ has done a very respectable job, not exceptional. Until the day a P5 or A10 conference comes calling we're stuck where we are. Makes me wish we still played CAA basketball where we could win out many years!

What does any of that have to do with the fact that we are in our longest stretch without a tournament appearance in school history. It's not like any of our previous appearances were at large appearances, and it's not like any of JJ's teams were good enough to deserve an at large even if the committee were more fair to mid majors. Just excuses.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

(08-26-2018 11:45 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 07:37 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I'm not buying the excuses (and Harry referred to them as well) about how much harder it is for a mid-major to get into the NCAA's nowadays. If we're talking at-large bids, it's always been hard for a mid major to get those. In any case, it's not like JJ has been putting together consistent Top 50 squads that have been screwed over by the NCAA Committee every year. If that were the case, the discussion would be quite different, and the blame would not be on JJ. But JJ has not fielded a team that has been remotely good enough to sniff an at-large bid. (One could argue that the 2015 squad was at-large worthy, but that would be overly generous). ODU has failed to receive an at-large bid for one reason. The teams have not been good enough, not even close.

Having said that, at-large bids have been rare at ODU. We have 2 (maybe 3) in our history. The normal path for ODU to get to the NCAAs has been to win the conference tournament. Once again, the reason that we have not done so is because the team has not been good enough. We've been to one championship game. We have zero regular season titles (I believe that our highest finish was 3rd on a couple of occasions in what everyone describes as a "crappy" conference). How many Top 100 finishes have we had? 2? Maybe 3? What is the last big win ODU had in Basketball? Murray State? VCU?

Sure, some can tout our impressive 23-wins-per-year stat as an accomplishment, but knowledgeable fans aren't buying it. The NCAA and NIT Committees surely aren't impressed.

Sorry, but JJ"s run has been the very definition of mediocre. Hell, we can't even make fun of W&M anymore.

I'm hopeful that the pickup in recruiting bodes well for our future (assuming we can keep them long enough). But please, let's stop with the excuses. ODU has not been worthy of an NCAA bid for a long time, and the system is not to blame.

Well stated and completely irrefutable to anyone with even an ounce of integrity or intellect.

Just to be clear anyone on the message board who disagrees with the arguments for firing Coach Jones has NO Integrity and NO Intellect. That is the folks on here (and in the VP Miller & formerly Minium) plus Broderick etc. are all stupid and unethical.
That seems a bit of an overstatement and I trust was simply hyperbole and not something you actually meant to say even though you did. Upon further reflection would you care to ratchet that back a bit and apologize?

(08-26-2018 07:37 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I'm not buying the excuses (and Harry referred to them as well) about how much harder it is for a mid-major to get into the NCAA's nowadays. If we're talking at-large bids, it's always been hard for a mid major to get those. In any case, it's not like JJ has been putting together consistent Top 50 squads that have been screwed over by the NCAA Committee every year. If that were the case, the discussion would be quite different, and the blame would not be on JJ. But JJ has not fielded a team that has been remotely good enough to sniff an at-large bid. (One could argue that the 2015 squad was at-large worthy, but that would be overly generous). ODU has failed to receive an at-large bid for one reason. The teams have not been good enough, not even close.

Having said that, at-large bids have been rare at ODU. We have 2 (maybe 3) in our history. The normal path for ODU to get to the NCAAs has been to win the conference tournament. Once again, the reason that we have not done so is because the team has not been good enough. We've been to one championship game. We have zero regular season titles (I believe that our highest finish was 3rd on a couple of occasions in what everyone describes as a "crappy" conference). How many Top 100 finishes have we had? 2? Maybe 3? What is the last big win ODU had in Basketball? Murray State? VCU?

Sure, some can tout our impressive 23-wins-per-year stat as an accomplishment, but knowledgeable fans aren't buying it. The NCAA and NIT Committees surely aren't impressed.

Sorry, but JJ"s run has been the very definition of mediocre. Hell, we can't even make fun of W&M anymore.

I'm hopeful that the pickup in recruiting bodes well for our future (assuming we can keep them long enough). But please, let's stop with the excuses. ODU has not been worthy of an NCAA bid for a long time, and the system is not to blame.

+2, well put.

He didn’t deserve an extension.

I don’t see how anyone can truly believe otherwise.

People entitled to their beliefs but I don’t have to respect them.

(08-26-2018 03:22 PM)ETSUDB8-79 Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 11:45 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 07:37 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I'm not buying the excuses (and Harry referred to them as well) about how much harder it is for a mid-major to get into the NCAA's nowadays. If we're talking at-large bids, it's always been hard for a mid major to get those. In any case, it's not like JJ has been putting together consistent Top 50 squads that have been screwed over by the NCAA Committee every year. If that were the case, the discussion would be quite different, and the blame would not be on JJ. But JJ has not fielded a team that has been remotely good enough to sniff an at-large bid. (One could argue that the 2015 squad was at-large worthy, but that would be overly generous). ODU has failed to receive an at-large bid for one reason. The teams have not been good enough, not even close.

Having said that, at-large bids have been rare at ODU. We have 2 (maybe 3) in our history. The normal path for ODU to get to the NCAAs has been to win the conference tournament. Once again, the reason that we have not done so is because the team has not been good enough. We've been to one championship game. We have zero regular season titles (I believe that our highest finish was 3rd on a couple of occasions in what everyone describes as a "crappy" conference). How many Top 100 finishes have we had? 2? Maybe 3? What is the last big win ODU had in Basketball? Murray State? VCU?

Sure, some can tout our impressive 23-wins-per-year stat as an accomplishment, but knowledgeable fans aren't buying it. The NCAA and NIT Committees surely aren't impressed.

Sorry, but JJ"s run has been the very definition of mediocre. Hell, we can't even make fun of W&M anymore.

I'm hopeful that the pickup in recruiting bodes well for our future (assuming we can keep them long enough). But please, let's stop with the excuses. ODU has not been worthy of an NCAA bid for a long time, and the system is not to blame.

Well stated and completely irrefutable to anyone with even an ounce of integrity or intellect.

Just to be clear anyone on the message board who disagrees with the arguments for firing Coach Jones has NO Integrity and NO Intellect. That is the folks on here (and in the VP Miller & formerly Minium) plus Broderick etc. are all stupid and unethical.
That seems a bit of an overstatement and I trust was simply hyperbole and not something you actually meant to say even though you did. Upon further reflection would you care to ratchet that back a bit and apologize?

Pearls before swine. Introspection is unlikely.

(08-26-2018 02:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(08-25-2018 01:36 PM)imfsff3 Wrote:  I'm not sure who some people think we are. We're NOT in a P5 conference. We're not even in the A10. We're in the lowly CUSA. The way the NCAA committee works these days is that G5 conferences or lower get 1 (yes 1) bid only, unless there is an exceptional situation. If the playing field was level, we would have played in March last year (even the NIT), but it's not. Look at what happened to Middle Tennessee last year. JJ has done a very respectable job, not exceptional. Until the day a P5 or A10 conference comes calling we're stuck where we are. Makes me wish we still played CAA basketball where we could win out many years!

What does any of that have to do with the fact that we are in our longest stretch without a tournament appearance in school history. It's not like any of our previous appearances were at large appearances, and it's not like any of JJ's teams were good enough to deserve an at large even if the committee were more fair to mid majors. Just excuses.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

06-07 was an at large appearance. In 09-10 and 10-11, we were at-large locks, but didn't need it. 04-05 the bracketologists were saying we were likely in as well, though it was much closer. No one expects JJ to field an at-large team every year, but we are certainly capable of fielding one occasionally. We had 4 in a 7-year stretch and that was without the benefit of catching lightning in a bottle and leveraging an NCAA tournament run into better recruitment. Right now, I'd be happy just to be able to turn on the TV or walk into the Ted with my son for a big game and have some level of confidence that we might come out with a W. I'm one of the posters that people complain about having to high of expectations and even my expectations have been shot. If football doesn't start producing results very soon, the AD needs to look at changing direction. Not suggesting we drop football, but I have to believe we can keep producing ~.500 seasons without robbing basketball.

(08-26-2018 03:22 PM)ETSUDB8-79 Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 11:45 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 07:37 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I'm not buying the excuses (and Harry referred to them as well) about how much harder it is for a mid-major to get into the NCAA's nowadays. If we're talking at-large bids, it's always been hard for a mid major to get those. In any case, it's not like JJ has been putting together consistent Top 50 squads that have been screwed over by the NCAA Committee every year. If that were the case, the discussion would be quite different, and the blame would not be on JJ. But JJ has not fielded a team that has been remotely good enough to sniff an at-large bid. (One could argue that the 2015 squad was at-large worthy, but that would be overly generous). ODU has failed to receive an at-large bid for one reason. The teams have not been good enough, not even close.

Having said that, at-large bids have been rare at ODU. We have 2 (maybe 3) in our history. The normal path for ODU to get to the NCAAs has been to win the conference tournament. Once again, the reason that we have not done so is because the team has not been good enough. We've been to one championship game. We have zero regular season titles (I believe that our highest finish was 3rd on a couple of occasions in what everyone describes as a "crappy" conference). How many Top 100 finishes have we had? 2? Maybe 3? What is the last big win ODU had in Basketball? Murray State? VCU?

Sure, some can tout our impressive 23-wins-per-year stat as an accomplishment, but knowledgeable fans aren't buying it. The NCAA and NIT Committees surely aren't impressed.

Sorry, but JJ"s run has been the very definition of mediocre. Hell, we can't even make fun of W&M anymore.

I'm hopeful that the pickup in recruiting bodes well for our future (assuming we can keep them long enough). But please, let's stop with the excuses. ODU has not been worthy of an NCAA bid for a long time, and the system is not to blame.

Well stated and completely irrefutable to anyone with even an ounce of integrity or intellect.

Just to be clear anyone on the message board who disagrees with the arguments for firing Coach Jones has NO Integrity and NO Intellect. That is the folks on here (and in the VP Miller & formerly Minium) plus Broderick etc. are all stupid and unethical.
That seems a bit of an overstatement and I trust was simply hyperbole and not something you actually meant to say even though you did. Upon further reflection would you care to ratchet that back a bit and apologize?

I agree. I am extremely disappointed with basketball's results, but we really can't afford to fire JJ and bring in someone that is likely to do any better. The root of the problem goes much deeper than JJ. JJ is providing the value he is being paid to provide. If I buy a Chevy Cruz, I'm know I won't be beating any Corvettes off the line. You get what you pay for.

As long as we are in CUSA, are we only going to be paying for a Chevy Cruze? Or are we waiting for an invite to another conference before we can afford a used Corvette? We might be waiting a while. It's a concern for me, the resources have been taken away from basketball and don't seem to be going back. Perhaps I am in the minority since I value basketball over football, so I suppose I need to get used to being disappointed?

(08-27-2018 07:48 AM)odu09 Wrote:  As long as we are in CUSA, are we only going to be paying for a Chevy Cruze? Or are we waiting for an invite to another conference before we can afford a used Corvette? We might be waiting a while. It's a concern for me, the resources have been taken away from basketball and don't seem to be going back. Perhaps I am in the minority since I value basketball over football, so I suppose I need to get used to being disappointed?

I could potentially get onboard with valuing football over basketball if we were competitive, but we aren't and I really haven't been overly excited about a game or even considered traveling to a road game since TH graduated. If our ceiling is 8 wins against bad teams and our reward is a weekday bowl game, in December, against a middle of the road MAC opponent, in the Bahamas, I'll pass. I just don't see the return on the investment. Seems like we could invest much less in basketball and see returns. Top 50 gives you a chance to be in the brackets and make big news. Top 50 in football gives you a bowl game that gives you the final score on page 8 of the paper with no story attached. Not to mention, football itself is under attack by the SJW mafia and viewership and participation are both on the decline. I feel like we are buying Sears stock in 1990.

(08-27-2018 07:48 AM)odu09 Wrote:  As long as we are in CUSA, are we only going to be paying for a Chevy Cruze? Or are we waiting for an invite to another conference before we can afford a used Corvette? We might be waiting a while. It's a concern for me, the resources have been taken away from basketball and don't seem to be going back. Perhaps I am in the minority since I value basketball over football, so I suppose I need to get used to being disappointed?

"the resources have been taken away from basketball and don't seem to be going back."

Exactly what resources have been taken away from basketball?

Is the recruiting budget smaller than it used to be?

Has the travel budget been depleted?

Is having a staff of 7 too few for Jones to work with?

Is paying him half a million somehow not significant enough? I mean, he agreed to it.

You obviously know more about this than I do to make a statement like that, so can you fill me in?

I'm sorry you value basketball more than football; that's certainly your right and I respect it. But that decision was made a long time ago now, and we ain't going back, not with the stadium plans.

(08-26-2018 03:57 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  He didn’t deserve an extension.

I don’t see how anyone can truly believe otherwise.

People entitled to their beliefs but I don’t have to respect them.

People entitled to their beliefs but I don’t have to respect them.

Speaks volumes for the kind of man you are. People with integrity respect other people's POVs, even if/when they disagree with them.

Lol @ making JJ's contract extension about football. Whatever man.

(08-27-2018 08:07 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 03:57 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  He didn’t deserve an extension.

I don’t see how anyone can truly believe otherwise.

People entitled to their beliefs but I don’t have to respect them.

People entitled to their beliefs but I don’t have to respect them.

Speaks volumes for the kind of man you are. People with integrity respect other people's POVs, even if/when they disagree with them.

I wonder if this is a communication issue. Respect the beliefs or respect the person who holds them? There is a distinction of consequence.

Posted from mobile device. Hopefully it's coherent.

I should never have posted that. I apologize.

(08-26-2018 07:37 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I'm not buying the excuses (and Harry referred to them as well) about how much harder it is for a mid-major to get into the NCAA's nowadays. If we're talking at-large bids, it's always been hard for a mid major to get those. In any case, it's not like JJ has been putting together consistent Top 50 squads that have been screwed over by the NCAA Committee every year. If that were the case, the discussion would be quite different, and the blame would not be on JJ. But JJ has not fielded a team that has been remotely good enough to sniff an at-large bid. (One could argue that the 2015 squad was at-large worthy, but that would be overly generous). ODU has failed to receive an at-large bid for one reason. The teams have not been good enough, not even close.

Having said that, at-large bids have been rare at ODU. We have 2 (maybe 3) in our history. The normal path for ODU to get to the NCAAs has been to win the conference tournament. Once again, the reason that we have not done so is because the team has not been good enough. We've been to one championship game. We have zero regular season titles (I believe that our highest finish was 3rd on a couple of occasions in what everyone describes as a "crappy" conference). How many Top 100 finishes have we had? 2? Maybe 3? What is the last big win ODU had in Basketball? Murray State? VCU?

Sure, some can tout our impressive 23-wins-per-year stat as an accomplishment, but knowledgeable fans aren't buying it. The NCAA and NIT Committees surely aren't impressed.

Sorry, but JJ"s run has been the very definition of mediocre. Hell, we can't even make fun of W&M anymore.

I'm hopeful that the pickup in recruiting bodes well for our future (assuming we can keep them long enough). But please, let's stop with the excuses. ODU has not been worthy of an NCAA bid for a long time, and the system is not to blame.

Well put!