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owl at the moon Offline
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Post: #161
where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-07-2018 09:01 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(07-07-2018 08:24 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(07-07-2018 08:02 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  The biggest difference between SMU and Rice is, IMO, that their students generally like sports.

A lot of Rice students "like sports" too. Intramural athletics is still popular. If SMU students "liked sports" in the way that you mean - attendance - then they would go to the games. Things are what they are.

OK. Then why when I’m on the Boulevard at SMU does every tailgate have College Gameday on and when I was in a college commons at Rice on a Saturday morning I was more likely to see anime.

To me, the only sport that has far more untapped student interest at Rice than attendance shows is basketball. People love the NBA but don’t like Rice basketball (for all the obvious reasons).


i think you may have noticed something key. Rice students like cartoons. Back in the 50s/60s with the classic cartoon game program covers -- turnout was great and we were nationally relevant.

so... Put the new original Sammy The Owl anime series on the scoreboard during timeouts. And watch Sammy vanquish all comers as the crowds steadily grow...
07-07-2018 04:11 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #162
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
Ironically, Rice and SMU would probably help each other's attendance if they played.
07-07-2018 10:53 PM
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Post: #163
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-07-2018 10:53 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Ironically, Rice and SMU would probably help each other's attendance if they played.

Not so sure, since both currently struggle to put backsides in seats. But I like the idea of rekindling the rivalry of these two similar sized, regionally located schools. These two teams have played ~90 times over the years, and it's a shame that's over for now. I miss A&M vs UT as well. Something to be said for tradition.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2018 11:44 AM by Papa_Owl.)
07-08-2018 11:21 AM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #164
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
Neither A&M nor UT really need to play in Houston... I agree I'd like to play them more, but I think the reality is that until this is a competitive game for them where a network would pay more for it, it's not going to happen.

If we spoke to (again, picking names that sound good in my head but might not actually be the right ones) say OSU or Auburn... teams that play at A&M or UT every other year and recruit heavily in Texas but don't get many tickets... MAYBE we get them to come... for a smaller portion of the gate

Now throw in a third option....
I'd almost HELP OSU and Michigan or whomever recruit in Texas....
1) at this point, they wouldn't be stealing any of our recruits
2) kids that don't get the nod or get homesick or become grad students might remember how we helped treat them and the atmosphere we created

Obviously the goal is to get where we ARE competing for recruits with them, but that's not the reality now... and those guys would MUCH rather see kids they passed on go to Rice than people in their conference/with their depth etc.
07-08-2018 05:47 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #165
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-08-2018 05:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Neither A&M nor UT really need to play in Houston... I agree I'd like to play them more, but I think the reality is that until this is a competitive game for them where a network would pay more for it, it's not going to happen.
If we spoke to (again, picking names that sound good in my head but might not actually be the right ones) say OSU or Auburn... teams that play at A&M or UT every other year and recruit heavily in Texas but don't get many tickets... MAYBE we get them to come... for a smaller portion of the gate
Now throw in a third option....
I'd almost HELP OSU and Michigan or whomever recruit in Texas....
1) at this point, they wouldn't be stealing any of our recruits
2) kids that don't get the nod or get homesick or become grad students might remember how we helped treat them and the atmosphere we created
Obviously the goal is to get where we ARE competing for recruits with them, but that's not the reality now... and those guys would MUCH rather see kids they passed on go to Rice than people in their conference/with their depth etc.

I've never understood why we didn't do this.
07-08-2018 06:21 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #166
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-08-2018 05:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Neither A&M nor UT really need to play in Houston... I agree I'd like to play them more, but I think the reality is that until this is a competitive game for them where a network would pay more for it, it's not going to happen.

If we spoke to (again, picking names that sound good in my head but might not actually be the right ones) say OSU or Auburn... teams that play at A&M or UT every other year and recruit heavily in Texas but don't get many tickets... MAYBE we get them to come... for a smaller portion of the gate

Now throw in a third option....
I'd almost HELP OSU and Michigan or whomever recruit in Texas....
1) at this point, they wouldn't be stealing any of our recruits
2) kids that don't get the nod or get homesick or become grad students might remember how we helped treat them and the atmosphere we created

Obviously the goal is to get where we ARE competing for recruits with them, but that's not the reality now... and those guys would MUCH rather see kids they passed on go to Rice than people in their conference/with their depth etc.


Which OSU?

I'd kinda of like to play OklaState or Oregon State.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2018 07:05 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
07-08-2018 06:54 PM
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Post: #167
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
At this point, Ohio State and Michigan would be more likely to play a neutral opponent at NRG Stadium than Rice. Not that they would be worried about playing Rice on the road, but NRG would be more likely to offer up a nice payday if it was OSU/Michigan vs. say an SEC opponent.

The Advocare kickoff game on September 1st (same day as our UH game but their game is at 7 pm and ours is 11 am) is Texas Tech and Ole Miss. It will be interesting to compare those two attendances. In 2020, it's Baylor and Ole Miss. I don't think they've announced the 2019 lineup yet.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2018 06:58 PM by Fort Bend Owl.)
07-08-2018 06:58 PM
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Post: #168
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-08-2018 06:54 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Which OSU?

I'd kinda of like to play OklaState or Oregon State.
After writing it, I realized it could be either of those, or even Ohio State... all of whom somewhat fit the bill and I'd be happy to host. I'd probably prefer it NOT be Ohio State initially because of the brand of football in the B1G... but I'd love to get to the point where we'd appreciate the opportunity to get their second pick 'bigs' and steal some of their speed people for a more open style.... If we're trying to go that direction (be the only smash-mouth team in CUSA) then that would be a good addition to our Texas roots and California connection

(07-08-2018 06:58 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  At this point, Ohio State and Michigan would be more likely to play a neutral opponent at NRG Stadium than Rice. Not that they would be worried about playing Rice on the road, but NRG would be more likely to offer up a nice payday if it was OSU/Michigan vs. say an SEC opponent.

I'd be okay with this at least for now... at least until we upgrade our concessions and restrooms etc.... but I'd make the ticket part of the season ticket package and not charge full price for it. Almost make local fans of those teams prefer buying season tickets and giving away all of the other games in order to get that one game. Net net we could be the same financially.... but again, we want to be those schools second team. Have the mob really go all out to entertain those schools local fans.
07-09-2018 12:29 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #169
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-09-2018 12:29 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(07-08-2018 06:54 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Which OSU?

I'd kinda of like to play OklaState or Oregon State.
After writing it, I realized it could be either of those, or even Ohio State... all of whom somewhat fit the bill and I'd be happy to host. I'd probably prefer it NOT be Ohio State initially because of the brand of football in the B1G... but I'd love to get to the point where we'd appreciate the opportunity to get their second pick 'bigs' and steal some of their speed people for a more open style.... If we're trying to go that direction (be the only smash-mouth team in CUSA) then that would be a good addition to our Texas roots and California connection

I thought Ohio State was always abbreviated "tOSU".
07-09-2018 12:40 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #170
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
I doubt that any of the big time football programs would play at Rice Stadium. Those schools have national brands. They have gigantic recruiting budgets that allow them to pursue any athlete in the nation. They don't need a game in Houston.
07-09-2018 04:14 PM
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #171
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-09-2018 04:14 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I doubt that any of the big time football programs would play at Rice Stadium. Those schools have national brands. They have gigantic recruiting budgets that allow them to pursue any athlete in the nation. They don't need a game in Houston.

It’s more about letting their alums watch a game without flying half way across the country. Look at the events for Army or Navy recently, or Purdue (which has a decent representation in Houston).
07-09-2018 04:17 PM
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Post: #172
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
Maybe a Rice v Harvard/Yale/Princeton game would put some butts in seats. I know it is FCS, but might be some interest in that game.
07-09-2018 05:08 PM
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Post: #173
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-09-2018 05:08 PM)Rice FB Fan Wrote:  Maybe a Rice v Harvard/Yale/Princeton game would put some butts in seats. I know it is FCS, but might be some interest in that game.

It would most likely have to be up there. Ivy travel restrictions pretty much rule out a football trip to Houston. Dennis Green got Cornell to come out to Stanford once, but exceptions are very rare.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2018 05:41 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-09-2018 05:40 PM
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Rice FB Fan Offline
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Post: #174
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
[/quote]
It would most likely have to be up there. Ivy travel restrictions pretty much rule out a football trip to Houston. Dennis Green got Cornell to come out to Stanford once, but exceptions are very rare.
[/quote]

In that case - never mind. LOL!

I really have a hard time seeing much of anything appealing about Ivy league football if a player has other options (when it comes to football, of course. I get Harvard over Southwestern Oklahoma State for non-football reasons). They are FCS, but don't let themselves play in the FCS tournament, can't travel except to local-ish games. No one comes to watch (except Harvard v. Yale). Except for Princeton, facilities are a dump (and Yale is REALLY a dump). No red shirt year unless you get special permission. We should NEVER lose a recruit to an Ivy.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2018 05:52 PM by Rice FB Fan.)
07-09-2018 05:49 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #175
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-09-2018 05:49 PM)Rice FB Fan Wrote:  
Quote:It would most likely have to be up there. Ivy travel restrictions pretty much rule out a football trip to Houston. Dennis Green got Cornell to come out to Stanford once, but exceptions are very rare.

In that case - never mind. LOL!

I really have a hard time seeing much of anything appealing about Ivy league football if a player has other options (when it comes to football, of course. I get Harvard over Southwestern Oklahoma State for non-football reasons). They are FCS, but don't let themselves play in the FCS tournament, can't travel except to local-ish games. No one comes to watch (except Harvard v. Yale). Except for Princeton, facilities are a dump (and Yale is REALLY a dump). No red shirt year unless you get special permission. We should NEVER lose a recruit to an Ivy.

The vast majority of students aren't going to play professionally. So the upside is near identical between Rice and HYP. If you want to get a good education and play football while playing in front of a few thousand fans and family, same thing.

As for travel, given where most of CUSA is located, I consider the Ivy proposition to be even more appealing. Hattiesburg, MS? No thank you.

Ultimately, it comes down to what people want to do and where they are located. Yes, we technically play in a higher division than they do, but if you are from the North East or so, why come all the way down for minimal benefit*? Plus the Ivies play each other and have rivalries. We play Middle Tennessee State and Charlotte. I can easily see why people would choose us over them and them over us. It is a wash, IMO.

*-speaking about sports. If you want to do an Engineering degree and play sports, then Rice is a whole lot more appealing.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2018 06:39 PM by Antarius.)
07-09-2018 06:36 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #176
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-09-2018 04:17 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 04:14 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I doubt that any of the big time football programs would play at Rice Stadium. Those schools have national brands. They have gigantic recruiting budgets that allow them to pursue any athlete in the nation. They don't need a game in Houston.

It’s more about letting their alums watch a game without flying half way across the country. Look at the events for Army or Navy recently, or Purdue (which has a decent representation in Houston).

They want their alums to fly across the country to see them play. It's big income. There are second-tier P5 schools that may benefit from coming to Houston, but not many. Like-minded institutions like Purdue and Northwestern will play Rice. The service academies are always ready and willing. If we could get Michigan or Ohio State at Rice Stadium, it would've happened by now.
07-09-2018 08:06 PM
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RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-09-2018 06:36 PM)Antarius Wrote:  The vast majority of students aren't going to play professionally. So the upside is near identical between Rice and HYP. If you want to get a good education and play football while playing in front of a few thousand fans and family, same thing.

I would respectfully assert that if you are the kind of kid that football is a big part of who your are - and you happen to be a really good student as well, Rice is the winner vs. HYP and certainly the other Ivys. If a player is good enough to use football to get into a good school, but football is not THAT important, then maybe it doesn't matter (and we need a team of the former).
07-10-2018 06:29 AM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #178
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-10-2018 06:29 AM)Rice FB Fan Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 06:36 PM)Antarius Wrote:  The vast majority of students aren't going to play professionally. So the upside is near identical between Rice and HYP. If you want to get a good education and play football while playing in front of a few thousand fans and family, same thing.

I would respectfully assert that if you are the kind of kid that football is a big part of who your are - and you happen to be a really good student as well, Rice is the winner vs. HYP and certainly the other Ivys. If a player is good enough to use football to get into a good school, but football is not THAT important, then maybe it doesn't matter (and we need a team of the former).

Why is Rice the winner? Other than the pure classification of us being FBS vs them being FCS, how are we materially different now in execution or outcome?

Heck, we lost to a 6-5 FCS team in 2007 and had a 7-4 one rack up 44 points against us in 2007. Neither of those were good teams but clearly they take their football seriously.. or as seriously as we do.
07-10-2018 10:26 AM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #179
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-09-2018 08:06 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 04:17 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 04:14 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I doubt that any of the big time football programs would play at Rice Stadium. Those schools have national brands. They have gigantic recruiting budgets that allow them to pursue any athlete in the nation. They don't need a game in Houston.

It’s more about letting their alums watch a game without flying half way across the country. Look at the events for Army or Navy recently, or Purdue (which has a decent representation in Houston).

They want their alums to fly across the country to see them play. It's big income. There are second-tier P5 schools that may benefit from coming to Houston, but not many. Like-minded institutions like Purdue and Northwestern will play Rice. The service academies are always ready and willing. If we could get Michigan or Ohio State at Rice Stadium, it would've happened by now.

Quibbling with the bolded: Army is always ready and willing because they're independent and need opponents, but Air Force & Navy already have to devote 2 nonconference games every year to playing the other academies, and Navy has a 3rd OOC slot automatically taken by Notre Dame. So they're a lot harder to get on our schedule with any consistency.

Otherwise I agree with you that the elite of the FB powerhouses - which I would define as any school that exceeds 70K+ for every home game - will not under any realistic circumstances ever come to HRS. There just is nothing we could offer them. 100% of the gate? They could stay home and make more (way more) playing a FCS school or another G5. A game in Texas? They can set up a much more lucrative one-off at Jerry World or NRG with another big boy anytime they want.
07-10-2018 10:53 AM
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Post: #180
RE: where does Rice athletics $s come from
(07-09-2018 08:06 PM)Ourland Wrote:  There are second-tier P5 schools that may benefit from coming to Houston, but not many.

We don't need many We only need perhaps 5 rotating every few years... and I'd include the service academies as well. Yes, they want people to come to their home games, but a) not everyone can get tickets and b) kids and teams like to travel... works well with alumni.... hence why Navy, Air Force, Army etc would do a home/home.

This falls back into my idea that we're competing for a large part of a small cohort rather than a small fraction of the massive cohorts that others seek.

We absolutely want that large school with lots of alums in or near Houston who is good, but just can't quite get over the hump that 'the big boys' enjoy... and seek some sort of difference maker. I don't know who those schools are, but I know they exist and want to put them on our schedule. As I said, even if we're only talking about 10,000 seats, that's 9,999 more than we will generally get from our crossover game. If that's where we need to start, then so be it.... but I'm betting if we went to some local alums for schools like Ok St and said, we'll give you some of the gate to come play here... we'll co-host your fans and recruits in UT's back yard... we won't compete for your recruits, but we'd love to work with you on academic kids who don't work out for you for any of a variety of reasons or on kids that you just don't have room for and fit us, but you don't want going to conference rivals... heck, we may even live stream a watch party for the Ok St games before or after ours in the R room for your alums who come to our games but want to watch yours. Just spitballing ideas... don't claim to have all the answers or that mine don't have issues....

but remember that football coaching is still somewhat of a good ole boys club... and 'working together' has advantages for coaches.


(07-10-2018 06:29 AM)Rice FB Fan Wrote:  I would respectfully assert that if you are the kind of kid that football is a big part of who your are - and you happen to be a really good student as well, Rice is the winner vs. HYP and certainly the other Ivys. If a player is good enough to use football to get into a good school, but football is not THAT important, then maybe it doesn't matter (and we need a team of the former).

Agree 100%.

Antarius, on the surface you are correct... but kids (like me and most players I know) want to compete against the better teams... even if the team loses, the kids have challenged themselves at the highest level. This is what Rice is and does, and we need to LEAD with that rather than run from it.

When I played, the lure of the SWC was huge. That's not the case anymore, but still FBS>FCS, especially Ivy league FCS from a competitive standpoint. That doesn't mean that we can't lose a kid to Harvard, but the reality is that Rice as an undergraduate institution is ranked higher than Harvard and most of the Ivies... who get most of their reputations from graduate programs. A Harvard degree has more global cache than a Rice degree, that is still true... but playing football against known and respected teams, even if you lost, makes vastly better water cooler conversation. I'd say that the respect I get from a Rice degree with football outranks some friends with Ivy degrees who also played football. Anecdotal for certain, but still true.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2018 11:35 AM by Hambone10.)
07-10-2018 10:55 AM
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